Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII

[nate33]

I'd trade our 2016 first, but not our 2015. We really need that pick to be a good one who will hopefully grow into a cheap contributing player by his second season in 2016.

So: 2016 1st + Miller + Blair for Thomas. Make it so.

Isaiah solves a lot of problems for us. Bench scorer? Check. Quality backup PG to give Wall some rest? Check. Good enough shooter to steal some SG minutes alongside Wall? Check. Young? Check. Better end-of-quarter iso scorer than Wall? Check.

[Wizardspride]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1372654#start_here

[hands11]

I'd trade our 2016 first, but not our 2015. We really need that pick to be a good one who will hopefully grow into a cheap contributing player by his second season in 2016.

So: 2016 1st + Miller + Blair for Thomas. Make it so.

Isaiah solves a lot of problems for us. Bench scorer? Check. Quality backup PG to give Wall some rest? Check. Good enough shooter to steal some SG minutes alongside Wall? Check. Young? Check. Better end-of-quarter iso scorer than Wall? Check.

Sure. Next years first is a nice tweak.

Works even better if PHX already has enough to pick with this year. They may prefer the following year.

[80sballboy]

Some of you guys are such Debbie Downers. We are very limited with what we can deal and teams don't want our garbage or aging players. I would take Nelson as long at it costs a future 2nd. He's playing well with Denver. He's not the perfect player but who the F-ck is? You're asking for a solid 10-15mpg and that's what he can give you.

Of course I'd love to get Isaiah Thomas. A future first would be fine if that's what the Suns want. He's an electrifying offensive player.

[jivelikenice]

I've been debating a potential isaiah move on twitter and i'm amazed at how reluctant ppl are to make a move. This team isn't a contender now IMO but they're not far away either (in the East). Add a 15ppg bench player, a player who can get his own shot and the entire outlook changes (it would change even more with a better HC). If all that costs is a 1st then go for it. Isaiah is under contract, and the contract is structured with a declining salary which helps us in '16. Quick question for the cap guys, how would our cap outlook for '16 be with him in the fold?

[LyricalRico]

I'd trade our 2016 first, but not our 2015. We really need that pick to be a good one who will hopefully grow into a cheap contributing player by his second season in 2016.

So: 2016 1st + Miller + Blair for Thomas. Make it so.

Isaiah solves a lot of problems for us. Bench scorer? Check. Quality backup PG to give Wall some rest? Check. Good enough shooter to steal some SG minutes alongside Wall? Check. Young? Check. Better end-of-quarter iso scorer than Wall? Check.

Thoughts on adding a Porter for Plumlee swap?

[payitforward]

We have plenty to offer. And I laid it out. Its more then just Miller.

Lets not get off track here by misrepresenting trade options just because someone wants to grind their EG axe.

Taking one piece from a trade package and saying that's the trade package isn't entering into a legit debate.

Who you callin' "someone"??

I wasn't grinding any axe at all, Hands, just pointing out a fact: we have very few tradeable assets. By which I mean, of course, players we might want to trade and also be able to trade -- I was excluding Wall, Beal, Porter & Gortat. We could trade the first 3 easily and I suppose Gortat as well. For that matter, I suppose we could trade Humphries. We could trade Pierce too.

But, we're building the team around Wall, Beal, Porter & Gortat. And Humphries' productivity is a bargain at his salary, so we would be unlikely to get equivalent value back for him. Pierce,obviously, is not a guy we're trading.

That leaves Butler, Temple, Gooden, Nene, Seraphin, Webster, Miller & Blair.

The first 3 have virtually no value, and even if you could trade them, they enable you to take back only @$3m in salary.

Nene is untradeable. He's waaay over-paid for what he still brings to the table -- unless we're going to get into the unlikely and very rare (name the last example if you can) of an expiring guy making that kind of $$ going to a contender to take them "over the top." In any case that'd be next year, and we're talking about trades this year.

Seraphin is unproductive. Webster's contract isn't a desirable acquisition given how often he's been hurt. Do you think Miller would be easy to trade? How come Denver got essentially nothing for him in that case (i.e. they got our mistake)? Blair is a mystery. He's been a good player, but he gets no minutes here.

Very few tradeable assets, like I said. Oh, I know you can dream things up -- realistically, however, it's hard to see....

Of course we could trade a future #1 pick. But that's just kicking the can down the road isn't it? Getting so little out of the draft is how we wound up having few tradeable assets.

[nate33]

I'd trade our 2016 first, but not our 2015. We really need that pick to be a good one who will hopefully grow into a cheap contributing player by his second season in 2016.

So: 2016 1st + Miller + Blair for Thomas. Make it so.

Isaiah solves a lot of problems for us. Bench scorer? Check. Quality backup PG to give Wall some rest? Check. Good enough shooter to steal some SG minutes alongside Wall? Check. Young? Check. Better end-of-quarter iso scorer than Wall? Check.

Thoughts on adding a Porter for Plumlee swap?

Not even mildly interested. Plumlee is going to be available as a free agent in 2016. No sense sacrificing any value for him now. Gortat, Nene and Humphries can hold down the fort until 2016.

I really like Porter and think he's going to be a fine role player. I also think his trade value is lower than his real value so any trade is going to be disappointing. If we're going to trade a young guy, we ought to be shopping Seraphin and Beal, both of whom probably have trade value higher than their actual value.

[nate33]

Nene is untradeable. He's waaay over-paid for what he still brings to the table -- unless we're going to get into the unlikely and very rare (name the last example if you can) of an expiring guy making that kind of $$ going to a contender to take them "over the top." In any case that'd be next year, and we're talking about trades this year.

I disagree with this. Nene definitely has trade value. Really good bigs who know how to play are always a commodity. I think multiple contenders would give us an expiring and maybe even a late pick for Nene - especially since Nene has played well and remained mostly injury free this year. I could see a team like OKC giving up Perkins and Perry Jones for example. Or a team like Portland would trade Kaman, expiring filler and a pick.

[LyricalRico]

I'd trade our 2016 first, but not our 2015. We really need that pick to be a good one who will hopefully grow into a cheap contributing player by his second season in 2016.

So: 2016 1st + Miller + Blair for Thomas. Make it so.

Isaiah solves a lot of problems for us. Bench scorer? Check. Quality backup PG to give Wall some rest? Check. Good enough shooter to steal some SG minutes alongside Wall? Check. Young? Check. Better end-of-quarter iso scorer than Wall? Check.

Thoughts on adding a Porter for Plumlee swap?

Not even mildly interested. Plumlee is going to be available as a free agent in 2016. No sense sacrificing any value for him now. Gortat, Nene and Humphries can hold down the fort until 2016.

I really like Porter and think he's going to be a fine role player. I also think his trade value is lower than his real value so any trade is going to be disappointing. If we're going to trade a young guy, we ought to be shopping Seraphin and Beal, both of whom probably have trade value higher than their actual value.

Makes sense. Those two in a package for the guys Denver is offering?

[hands11]

Wow.. Player union voted against blending in the new cap.. They want it all at once.. 2016 90M dollar cap is what we might see.

What max contract again..35% ... that 31M a year

Player union is expecting another lock out in 2017 so they want to get as much as they can as soon as they can.

Also looking for..

Limiting back to backs.. fans buy tickets. They want to see the players. Not pops resting players. It to much on the players.
limiting preseason to adjust for this.

[payitforward]

Nene is untradeable. He's waaay over-paid for what he still brings to the table -- unless we're going to get into the unlikely and very rare (name the last example if you can) of an expiring guy making that kind of $$ going to a contender to take them "over the top." In any case that'd be next year, and we're talking about trades this year.

I disagree with this. Nene definitely has trade value. Really good bigs who know how to play are always a commodity. I think multiple contenders would give us an expiring and maybe even a late pick for Nene - especially since Nene has played well and remained mostly injury free this year. I could see a team like OKC giving up Perkins and Perry Jones for example. Or a team like Portland would trade Kaman, expiring filler and a pick.

You make my point for me.

For Nene, you can see OKC giving up Perkins, who is both a bad player and unrestricted at season's end, and Perry Jones who is at best a marginal NBA player. Does that trade help build the future of the Washington Wizards? Would they give us Serge Ibaka, whom we could have picked in '08, and Mitch McCary, whom we could have picked last year had we not traded away our R1?

Or you can see Portland giving us Chris Kamen (never very good, about to turn 33, and washed up) plus an expiring (what... Joel Freeland & Victor Claver?) and a pick (what pick? -- R2?). Does that trade help build the future of the Washington Wizards? Would they give us Nicolas Batum, whom we could have picked in '08? Or...

You get my point.

[payitforward]

Thoughts on adding a Porter for Plumlee swap?

Not even mildly interested. Plumlee is going to be available as a free agent in 2016. No sense sacrificing any value for him now. Gortat, Nene and Humphries can hold down the fort until 2016.

I really like Porter and think he's going to be a fine role player. I also think his trade value is lower than his real value so any trade is going to be disappointing. If we're going to trade a young guy, we ought to be shopping Seraphin and Beal, both of whom probably have trade value higher than their actual value.

Makes sense. Those two in a package for the guys Denver is offering?

Sometimes I read stuff here that absolutely beggars the imagination.

You want to trade a guy we picked #3 in the draft a couple of years ago, who is still only 21 years old, for what exactly...? Aaron Afflalo, Jameer Nelson and Wilson Chandler?

[hands11]

I've been debating a potential isaiah move on twitter and i'm amazed at how reluctant ppl are to make a move. This team isn't a contender now IMO but they're not far away either (in the East). Add a 15ppg bench player, a player who can get his own shot and the entire outlook changes (it would change even more with a better HC). If all that costs is a 1st then go for it. Isaiah is under contract, and the contract is structured with a declining salary which helps us in '16. Quick question for the cap guys, how would our cap outlook for '16 be with him in the fold?

LOL

Those people you are tweeting with are not GMs.

Its not what they want. It what we think is possible and what we would guess two or more GMs would do.

It fine if people want to voice what they would do. But at the end of the day, I'm more interested in reading people who are objective about what is most likely to happen.

[payitforward]

...It fine if people want to voice what they would do. But at the end of the day, I'm more interested in reading people who are objective about what is most likely to happen.

This is an interesting distinction between "preference" (what they would do) and prediction (what is most likely to happen). But, at least on first take, I'm surprised, Hands, that you're more interested in prediction than preference.

Sometimes you do make "predictions" -- i.e. in the off season: where you think some high priced FA is likely to wind up. But mostly you express your preference -- i.e. you would only sign FAs, maybe a DL call-up, not make a trade (I agree with that, btw). I kind of think that's what animates this kind of forum. CCJ says what he would do. Ruzious agrees or disagrees, Dat2 comes in w/ what he thinks might be a better move, etc. etc. etc.

Then, later, after we see what happens and how it works out we get to claim we were right, or we get to read other people pointing out where we were wrong.

For example, I wanted Jae Crowder w/ our #32 pick in 2012, and he's turned into a solid rotation player (he would be a tradeable asset, for example), and I wanted Kyle O'Quinn w/ our #46 that year, and he's become one of the better young bigs in the league. Instead, Ernie picked someone pointless @32 and gave away #46. I get to crow on that one!

OTOH, I was eager to sign Landry Fields a few off-seasons ago. He's delivered absolutely nothing. So I get to read about what a dumb idea I had! Yup -- gotta hide behind a rock on that one.

Ditto for ideas you have that do or don't look good in retrospect. Isn't that what we do here?

[Earth2Ted]

I still want in on Brook Lopez- especially if we can get him for, say, Gortat and Porter. Yeah, he's injury prone and not the best defender in the world, but on offense with Wall, Beal, Pierce, and Nene- that's a scary lineup to defend. He was scary enough against us by himself in DC last month- we had absolutely no answer for him.

That sense of desperation that led Randy Wittman to throw DeJuan Blair out there on him- it would be nice to have our bigs inflict that on the opposition for once.

And if he gets hurt, well, he's expiring next year with Nene, and we have a ton of cap room going forward.

Best offer so far for him seems to be Stephenson and Cody Zeller from Charlotte- I think Gortat and Porter beats that.

[hands11]

...It fine if people want to voice what they would do. But at the end of the day, I'm more interested in reading people who are objective about what is most likely to happen.

This is an interesting distinction between "preference" (what they would do) and prediction (what is most likely to happen). But, at least on first take, I'm surprised, Hands, that you're more interested in prediction than preference.

Sometimes you do make "predictions" -- i.e. in the off season: where you think some high priced FA is likely to wind up. But mostly you express your preference -- i.e. you would only sign FAs, maybe a DL call-up, not make a trade (I agree with that, btw). I kind of think that's what animates this kind of forum. CCJ says what he would do. Ruzious agrees or disagrees, Dat2 comes in w/ what he thinks might be a better move, etc. etc. etc.

Then, later, after we see what happens and how it works out we get to claim we were right, or we get to read other people pointing out where we were wrong.

For example, I wanted Jae Crowder w/ our #32 pick in 2012, and he's turned into a solid rotation player (he would be a tradeable asset, for example), and I wanted Kyle O'Quinn w/ our #46 that year, and he's become one of the better young bigs in the league. Instead, Ernie picked someone pointless @32 and gave away #46. I get to crow on that one!

OTOH, I was eager to sign Landry Fields a few off-seasons ago. He's delivered absolutely nothing. So I get to read about what a dumb idea I had! Yup -- gotta hide behind a rock on that one.

Ditto for ideas you have that do or don't look good in retrospect. Isn't that what we do here?

Yeah, it is a good distinction and the lines do get blurred sometimes. Where things really get off the rail is when people predict what GMs and teams will do and its totally out of line with what they have been doing recently by team or league wide trend.

I was just pointing out how some fans really get into this mind set and post like they are the ones actually deciding when in fact, that has nothing to do with it. Specially when they can't get other fans to except a trade. Only thing I would care to get from other fans of a team is to find one with object insight as to what that other GM might do if I wasn't familiar with that GM myself.

I try to keep my focus on trades and moves that they would actually do and draw a distinction between what I would do and what I think will likely happen. i.e. during this trade deadline.. would they trade Miller. I didn't think they would but now I think there is a good chance they would.

Another Example, all the talk of trading Nene over the years I always found to be a waste of time. I just never saw that as something the team would do.

Then there is the in between where its unclear what they might do. Example. Would they draft a Len, Zeller or go with Otto. Otto was more likely but the other two were options that were with in their wheel house.

My idea that draft to trade down and get a CJM, Burke, McLemore, or Adams... That was something I know was very unlikely to happen. Any of the above would have fit nicely on the team as back ups and being picked lower then #3 would have made them cost less and fit better as a back up. And all hold positions where we need a quality back up.

[80sballboy]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... zbr01.html

Nothing like a (non) durable center who doesn't rebound well.

[LyricalRico]

Not even mildly interested. Plumlee is going to be available as a free agent in 2016. No sense sacrificing any value for him now. Gortat, Nene and Humphries can hold down the fort until 2016.

I really like Porter and think he's going to be a fine role player. I also think his trade value is lower than his real value so any trade is going to be disappointing. If we're going to trade a young guy, we ought to be shopping Seraphin and Beal, both of whom probably have trade value higher than their actual value.

Makes sense. Those two in a package for the guys Denver is offering?

Sometimes I read stuff here that absolutely beggars the imagination.

You want to trade a guy we picked #3 in the draft a couple of years ago, who is still only 21 years old, for what exactly...? Aaron Afflalo, Jameer Nelson and Wilson Chandler?

Hey, I got a fever...and the only cure is MORE TRADES!

[hands11]

I still want in on Brook Lopez- especially if we can get him for, say, Gortat and Porter. Yeah, he's injury prone and not the best defender in the world, but on offense with Wall, Beal, Pierce, and Nene- that's a scary lineup to defend. He was scary enough against us by himself in DC last month- we had absolutely no answer for him.

That sense of desperation that led Randy Wittman to throw DeJuan Blair out there on him- it would be nice to have our bigs inflict that on the opposition for once.

And if he gets hurt, well, he's expiring next year with Nene, and we have a ton of cap room going forward.

Best offer so far for him seems to be Stephenson and Cody Zeller from Charlotte- I think Gortat and Porter beats that.

I think the dude is damaged goods. Way to many foot injuries for a player 7-0 265 and 26.

But I can see the logic.

After Wall has developed well the last two years and had two playoff experiences, if all goes South and it blows up, worst case is one year back in the lottery, grab another solid young talent and then back into the playoffs again.

Not a huge Lopez fan as a fan. IT would be more fun to watch. But adding Lopez and moving Hump and maybe another big could make sense. We would be short a TAJ type though. He has decent range and they could open things up. Just seems to be moving in the opposite direction of league trends.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... ran-Dragic

Suns-More-Likely-To-Trade-Isaiah-Thomas-Than-Goran-Dragic