Josh is quickly becoming the next whipping boy.

[The Rebel]

I wish I could disagree with this article, but with Shaw still having a job and rumors that Shaw is going to be back next year, I have a hard time disagreeing with this writer. After years of following the Rockies I got tired of watching the same incompetence from the owner and the people they refused to fire for so many years, I am hoping it does not get that far with the Nuggets but I am starting to lose faith.

Tuesday was Feb. 3. Two years ago on Feb. 3, the Nuggets were in the middle of a nine-game win streak that included wins against Oklahoma City, Houston (twice), Chicago and, yes, Indiana. By win totals or the simple eye test, the Nuggets were better than the Pacers in 2012-13. They swept the Pacers that season. And Nuggets leadership responded by trying to be more like the Pacers. Figure that one out.

How did the Nuggets go from there to here in such a short time? It starts at the top, always. Colorado offers the finest examples of that, perhaps the most irrefutable fact in professional sports. The Broncos are always in the NFL conversation because the people who work for Pat Bowlen operate under his singular vision: To win a world championship. I still maintain Monfort wants the same for the Rockies, but he doesn't know how to get there.

http://m.gazette.com/klee-fixing-the-de ... le/1545775

[Powder Blue]

I do believe that Josh knows basketball. That could be a problem because he won't want to hand the reins over to a more seasoned basketball mind. It makes a whole lot of sense for the team to bring Mr. Big Shot into the fold. Josh did similar things for for the Avs. The issue is that curently there is no spot for Billups. Either Josh would have to take a step back or Tim would have to go.

The difference between the Rockies and Nuggets is that no matter how bad the Rockies are people go to those games. It's very much a social event, especially with the party deck now. Monfort can put a crap product out their because fans still fork over cash to go to the games and the team has a couple marketable players (although hurt half the time.)

The Nuggets right now are a huge, disfuntional POS. From what I see on TV the crowds are pretty sparse, that can't be good for the bottom line. Hopefully that forces some changes sooner than later.

[JerrySloan]

I don't know how anyone who has closely followed the Nuggets for even the last several years can fail to understand that the ONLY difference between Josh Kroenke and Josh McDaniels is that he was fortunate to be born the son of a billionaire NBA team owner.

Of course, Kroenke "knows basketball". I'd say that Michael Jordan also does, wouldn't you? The fact is that like McDaniels and MJ, Kroenke is a totally arrogant, my-way-or-the-highway guy but one who is hiding behind a genial façade that has every single Denver sportswriter in his pocket.

Benjamin Hochman finally came around last week and at least mentioned Shaw as someone who might need to go as opposed to just about almost any player on the team not named Nurkic. Does anyone here really doubt that both AA and Faried will likely do much better elsewhere if they get traded to teams that understand their strengths and intend to use them properly?

Finally, WTF IS Kroenke's - and it is JK's not TC's - plan? I've seen articles positing trading AA, Ty, Chandler and Faried and apparently taking back nothing but draft choices if they can manage it. Is the plan to have a team of kids led by elder statesman Jameer Nelson and stuck with McGee, Hickson and Arthur?

BTW, here is a question. Which team do you think will win more games the rest of the season, Shaw's Nuggets or Karl's Kings?

[Powder Blue]

I don't know how anyone who has closely followed the Nuggets for even the last several years can fail to understand that the ONLY difference between Josh Kroenke and Josh McDaniels is that he was fortunate to be born the son of a billionaire NBA team owner.

Of course, Kroenke "knows basketball". I'd say that Michael Jordan also does, wouldn't you? The fact is that like McDaniels and MJ, Kroenke is a totally arrogant, my-way-or-the-highway guy but one who is hiding behind a genial façade that has every single Denver sportswriter in his pocket.

Benjamin Hochman finally came around last week and at least mentioned Shaw as someone who might need to go as opposed to just about almost any player on the team not named Nurkic. Does anyone here really doubt that both AA and Faried will likely do much better elsewhere if they get traded to teams that understand their strengths and intend to use them properly?

Finally, WTF IS Kroenke's - and it is JK's not TC's - plan? I've seen articles positing trading AA, Ty, Chandler and Faried and apparently taking back nothing but draft choices if they can manage it. Is the plan to have a team of kids led by elder statesman Jameer Nelson and stuck with McGee, Hickson and Arthur?

BTW, here is a question. Which team do you think will win more games the rest of the season, Shaw's Nuggets or Karl's Kings?

Not sure you can compare a coach and a GM. Sure McD had personnel decisions but they aren't the same. I thought this coach and roster would work, at least be much better than it's turned out to be. I can't sit here and blast Josh when I was on the same page with him at the beginning of the season. We'll see what happens by Friday.

Obviously the Kings will win more than the Nuggets, I don't want the Nuggets winning much the rest of the season anyways. Draft position much more important than moving up to the 9-10th spot in the west.

[skywalker33]

Josh is quickly becoming one of those "owners" who thinks he knows more than he does..a Jerry Jones-type guy. Sad to say, but he wants the limelight on him rather on the team...

[tstrick33]

I think Josh does have a plan and a lot of fans won't like it because without publicly admitting it we are throwing the towel in for next year and building towards the 2016 offseason, which is going to be stacked and the cap will skyrocket, plus we'll be clear of nearly every contract.

The hope is to gain as many firsts this year and next year as we can, hoping we can get a young star or two. Then we can go into the 2016 offseason with enough cap to offer two max deals. With a load of first round draft picks and an up and coming nucleus from guys we get in this upcoming draft, plus Nurkic and Harris. Hopefully we can attract some stars to sign with us.

Josh at least understands how to win in the NBA. Just a few years ago we made the playoffs 10 years in a row, we aren't too removed from getting back to there. Monfort on the other hand is completely clueless when it comes to getting a team into contention.

[JerrySloan]

Powder Blue wrote

I can't sit here and blast Josh when I was on the same page with him at the beginning of the season. We'll see what happens by Friday.

Respectfully, yes you could.

But more to the point, just what was that "page" and did it require Shaw to stick to it and, if so, has he?

[skywalker33]

I think Josh does have a plan and a lot of fans won't like it because without publicly admitting it we are throwing the towel in for next year and building towards the 2016 offseason, which is going to be stacked and the cap will skyrocket, plus we'll be clear of nearly every contract.

The hope is to gain as many firsts this year and next year as we can, hoping we can get a young star or two. Then we can go into the 2016 offseason with enough cap to offer two max deals. With a load of first round draft picks and an up and coming nucleus from guys we get in this upcoming draft, plus Nurkic and Harris. Hopefully we can attract some stars to sign with us.

Josh at least understands how to win in the NBA. Just a few years ago we made the playoffs 10 years in a row, we aren't too removed from getting back to there. Monfort on the other hand is completely clueless when it comes to getting a team into contention.

I have to agree with this, but with that cap going up, it's going to increase significantly for every other team in the league as well.

There is one part I have to disagree...Monfort isn't clueless, he's making money hand over fist....just doesn't care about winning...

[JerrySloan]

Josh at least understands how to win in the NBA. Just a few years ago we made the playoffs 10 years in a row, we aren't too removed from getting back to there. Monfort on the other hand is completely clueless when it comes to getting a team into contention.

Do you mean the way Miami did or the way the Spurs have? How about the Lakers, who got Kobe from Charlotte who drafted him with the 13th pick, traded for Shaq and signed Phil Jackson to put together a 3Peat and then traded for Gasol for another 2 titles?

How many titles have been won in the last 20 years by teams playing the tanking game? I guess you could talk about the Bulls 6 titles with MJ and Scottie except for the fact that the ONLY reason that those players ended up on the Bulls was because Portland was dumb enough to take Sam Bowie with the #2 pick in 1984 because they didn't "need" MJ, with Clyde Drexler already on the team and the Seattle Supersonics being equally dumb in trading 1987 #5 pick Pippen for Olden Polynice on draft night.

I guess if the Nugs really all out tank it - which I don't think they will - they might end up with the 5th worst record in the league. That said, only Okafor MIGHT be a guy who could be a BIG star but not for at least a couple of years.

[StunnaStan]

I think Josh does have a plan and a lot of fans won't like it because without publicly admitting it we are throwing the towel in for next year and building towards the 2016 offseason, which is going to be stacked and the cap will skyrocket, plus we'll be clear of nearly every contract.

The hope is to gain as many firsts this year and next year as we can, hoping we can get a young star or two. Then we can go into the 2016 offseason with enough cap to offer two max deals. With a load of first round draft picks and an up and coming nucleus from guys we get in this upcoming draft, plus Nurkic and Harris. Hopefully we can attract some stars to sign with us.

Josh at least understands how to win in the NBA. Just a few years ago we made the playoffs 10 years in a row, we aren't too removed from getting back to there. Monfort on the other hand is completely clueless when it comes to getting a team into contention.

I have to agree with this, but with that cap going up, it's going to increase significantly for every other team in the league as well.

There is one part I have to disagree...Monfort isn't clueless, he's making money hand over fist....just doesn't care about winning...

See, Sam Hinkie has a plan. Phil Jackson has a plan. The Timberwolves have a plan. whats happening now with denver, it wasn't planned. why did it take TC half a season to scramble for trades when this process should have began the 1st week of december? He waited to long and now were stuck with gallo and mcgee. were not making the playoffs and we dont have a top 6 pick so what have we accomplished for the season. saying josh knows how to win is a baseless statement considering he took our most winningest team in franchise history and turned it into the problem we have today. he didnt know denver would be as good as they were post melo trade. he also hired a coach from a team that was worse than us in hopes that we played more like the team that we were already better than. Then you hire the gm who drafted Jan Vessley and what was that Gm's first move on the job? bringing in jan vessley. JK is just as clueless as TC

[tstrick33]

TC was thrown into a terrible situation. Brian Shaw was one of the hottest commodities for HC candidates and he got him. Even though it has been a failure, if you go back to the threads we all seemed to love the move.

Trade Deadline-Draft is when GM's get graded for what they can do, so far TC's grade is incomplete, but getting 2 firsts for Mozgov is a steal. If we end up getting at least one first for Afflalo or Chandler I will consider that a win for TC as well.

Having 3 potential First Round picks this year would be a huge step in the rebuilding process.

As of now I like what TC has done overall. Even the Vessely trade wasn't a bad move. We got rid of a player who didn't want to play for us and got an experiment player on an expiring contract.

As I said before Kroenke and TC seem to have a 2 year rebuilding plan, which is going to lead to a lot of people doubting Kroenke and TC but if it gives us a chance to compete in the long run, lets do it.

[StunnaStan]

When you look at the stipulations of the picks we got for mozgov, you'll see that our only chance of getting them this year are slim to none. Not to mention the possible picks we have from okc and Memphis are also highly unlikely. And to top it off, tc tries to trade the better of the 2 picks to bk for Brooklyn in the mcgee deal. He would have been better off trading mozzy to bk. I'm pretty sure bk mightve considered the deal if the center they would've gotten back in return was a legit starter who is relatively healthy and plays normal minutes.

[pickaxe]

Wanting to tank makes complete sense. Nothing wrong with that sentiment given the circumstances.

However, doing so will build bad habits that will cripple the team more than any one draft pick will cure the team. Risk-reward is not enough to justify setting bad habits.

My preference for tanking would be to play rookies more and accept the result, all the while positively working on development. Not just playing anyone without a plan and building bad habits that will really not come home to roost until next season.

I'd pay for a ticket to go watch the young players develop. We all understand the plan, there is still a very high chance of losing lots of games but the morale of the fan base stays high.

[tstrick33]

I fully expect OKC to make the playoffs thus us getting their pick. Combine that with our own pick and any potential firsts we get from Chandler/Afflalo would make three total this year.

The Memphis first is gold for us, especially if Marc Gasol bolts. If not, then we wait a few years before it becomes unprotected.

[StunnaStan]

In order for Denver to acquire okc pick, okc basically have to finish with a better record than the cavaliers. It's possible but highly unlikely. Okc has to have the 19th best record in the league or better