Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII

[payitforward]

I'm extremely nervous that we're going to acquire the forgettable Norris Cole -- and, worse, I've managed to scare myself that we're going to trade a R1 pick to get him.

[LyricalRico]

OKC fans on the Trade Board are now looking to dump Dion Waiters for just an expiring contract. Obviously, fan sentiment isn't the same as the sentiment of the team's management, but it's an issue that bears watching. Would you trade Andre Miller straight up for Dion Waiters?

Waiters is definitely a selfish team-cancer with a near-delusional sense of self worth, but he's also a talented guard with the ball in his hands and he could be the instant offense guy our second unit really needs.

NO

Agreed, pass on Waiters. I'd rather have our current problems than the problems somebody like him can create.

[hands11]

Not to pick on just one point (who me? I could pick on some more if you want.), but can we stop with the assuming that Beal will be Klay Thompson or better just because it took Thompson several years to become what he is? What's the percent of NBA players that improve to the extent that Thompson has? Spoiler alert - it's very low. Thompson is the single best shooting guard in the NBA. Some consider him an MVP candidate. Assuming Beal is going to get in that range is silly.

I will counter your.. what percent become that good with ... what percent of SG are as good a Beal at this age ? Spoiler alert.. its very low.

So the question was ... what is the back up plan.. What I did was point out.. its not clear its a dire as some think it is and they will have options. Same thing I have said though the entire rebuild while people cried the sky is falling, trade Nene, TA sucks, Okafor is a bust, don't give up a lottery pick for Gortat.

They already have pieces. Young pieces. And GS built a good team largely in a very similar model. I broke that down. The draft Curry and Klay. They got their not so athletic bigs. They added Iggy. And they gave it time. Then lucked into Green.

Not saying its a sure thing. No one can. But it would be silly to not see the potential. Not like they don't have Wall and Beal. Not like Wall's chances of becoming what he is today was a sure thing 2-3 years ago when lots here questioned if he could get here like the are questions Beal now. What's so different about Beal ? Another level headed young talented kid that needs to mature and grow his skills and his mental approach. Sounds like Wall was when lots here complained about maxing him early.

So your first shot at picking at what what wrote didn't go so well. What else you got ? Or, you can also acknowledge they are fair points and comment from there. Up to you.

Your counter sucked. Beal is not good. He's average. There have been a ton of average shooing guards in the NBA - probably several hundred his age. Saying a lot of irrelevant junk to clutter things up doesn't change that.

Well, in light of that mature intelligent replay... I counter that with ..Your counter sucked even more. Much more.

Your generic babble about Beal is irrelevant.

What is relevant is, they have young talent. The team is getting better and better year over year both record and personnel. They have cap room. They have picks. They aren't stuck in a long term coaching contract and they have a good owner that had a good plan and they are being patient in following it.

Given you missed most if not all of the rebuild complaining and missing the forest for the trees, I fail to see why anyone would think your predictions or evaluation of the situation would hold any weight.

[nate33]

OKC fans on the Trade Board are now looking to dump Dion Waiters for just an expiring contract. Obviously, fan sentiment isn't the same as the sentiment of the team's management, but it's an issue that bears watching. Would you trade Andre Miller straight up for Dion Waiters?

Waiters is definitely a selfish team-cancer with a near-delusional sense of self worth, but he's also a talented guard with the ball in his hands and he could be the instant offense guy our second unit really needs.

Are you looking at Waiters being a stopgap with Beal being out?

Word is, Beal won't be out long. His stress injury is more mild than last year. Last year he sat out 22 days. This time, he has already sat out 14 days. I'm guessing Beal will be back in the next 3 games or so, possibly even tomorrow.

I was thinking Waiters would be more than just a stopgap. He would be our backup SG. Moreover, he'd be almost the default backup PG since he'd be playing alongside Temple on the second unit and Temple isn't really a set-up guy. Waiters looks terrible when trying to fit into a lineup with better offensive players. His inability to play off the ball is crippling to both OKC and Cleveland. But last year on a bad Cleveland team, he did really well whenever Kyrie was out. My thinking is that our 2nd unit is kinda like that Cleveland team without Kyrie.

Rather than force Waiters to change his style, just utilize him to do the things he does best.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

OKC fans on the Trade Board are now looking to dump Dion Waiters for just an expiring contract. Obviously, fan sentiment isn't the same as the sentiment of the team's management, but it's an issue that bears watching. Would you trade Andre Miller straight up for Dion Waiters?

Waiters is definitely a selfish team-cancer with a near-delusional sense of self worth, but he's also a talented guard with the ball in his hands and he could be the instant offense guy our second unit really needs.

Are you looking at Waiters being a stopgap with Beal being out?

Word is, Beal won't be out long. His stress injury is more mild than last year. Last year he sat out 22 days. This time, he has already sat out 14 days. I'm guessing Beal will be back in the next 3 games or so, possibly even tomorrow.

I was thinking Waiters would be more than just a stopgap. He would be our backup SG. Moreover, he'd be almost the default backup PG since he'd be playing alongside Temple on the second unit and Temple isn't really a set-up guy. Waiters looks terrible when trying to fit into a lineup with better offensive players. His inability to play off the ball is crippling to both OKC and Cleveland. But last year on a bad Cleveland team, he did really well whenever Kyrie was out. My thinking is that our 2nd unit is kinda like that Cleveland team without Kyrie.

Rather than force Waiters to change his style, just utilize him to do the things he does best.

Nate, meet Randy Wittman. Randy, meet Nate...

[Induveca]

Are you looking at Waiters being a stopgap with Beal being out?

Word is, Beal won't be out long. His stress injury is more mild than last year. Last year he sat out 22 days. This time, he has already sat out 14 days. I'm guessing Beal will be back in the next 3 games or so, possibly even tomorrow.

I was thinking Waiters would be more than just a stopgap. He would be our backup SG. Moreover, he'd be almost the default backup PG since he'd be playing alongside Temple on the second unit and Temple isn't really a set-up guy. Waiters looks terrible when trying to fit into a lineup with better offensive players. His inability to play off the ball is crippling to both OKC and Cleveland. But last year on a bad Cleveland team, he did really well whenever Kyrie was out. My thinking is that our 2nd unit is kinda like that Cleveland team without Kyrie.

Rather than force Waiters to change his style, just utilize him to do the things he does best.

Nate, meet Randy Wittman. Randy, meet Nate...

Ha, my thought exactly. Also petrifies me to have Beal and Waiters competing for most bricked long twos.

[hands11]

OKC fans on the Trade Board are now looking to dump Dion Waiters for just an expiring contract. Obviously, fan sentiment isn't the same as the sentiment of the team's management, but it's an issue that bears watching. Would you trade Andre Miller straight up for Dion Waiters?

Waiters is definitely a selfish team-cancer with a near-delusional sense of self worth, but he's also a talented guard with the ball in his hands and he could be the instant offense guy our second unit really needs.

Are you looking at Waiters being a stopgap with Beal being out?

Word is, Beal won't be out long. His stress injury is more mild than last year. Last year he sat out 22 days. This time, he has already sat out 14 days. I'm guessing Beal will be back in the next 3 games or so, possibly even tomorrow.

I was thinking Waiters would be more than just a stopgap. He would be our backup SG. Moreover, he'd be almost the default backup PG since he'd be playing alongside Temple on the second unit and Temple isn't really a set-up guy. Waiters looks terrible when trying to fit into a lineup with better offensive players. His inability to play off the ball is crippling to both OKC and Cleveland. But last year on a bad Cleveland team, he did really well whenever Kyrie was out. My thinking is that our 2nd unit is kinda like that Cleveland team without Kyrie.

Rather than force Waiters to change his style, just utilize him to do the things he does best.

"Rather than force (fill in player name ) to change his style, just utilize him to do the things he does best."

That almost always the correct answer. I just wish people would apply is across the board for all players. Because that alone explains a good bit of their ups and downs and who makes it as a young player or not.

If they don't do what you need and you don't plan on using them for that they do, don't add them.

That's why its so important the front office all be on the same page and it helps if the front office is stable over time.

TA is the perfect example. I'm sure he was always working on his game to get better, but he has been basically the same player the last 5 years. When his production was good, it was because he was being used to this skills. When he wasn't, he was being asked to do things that aren't in his wheel house.

Now players like Wall, they have tons of upside and can keep adding skills so over time you can ask them to do new things. But most the players in the NBA as not John Walls. They are more like TAs with different limited skills sets. And even with Wall, he was at his core the kind of PG they wanted which was a pass first athletic PG who they believed would be a good defender as he learned.

[nate33]

Word is, Beal won't be out long. His stress injury is more mild than last year. Last year he sat out 22 days. This time, he has already sat out 14 days. I'm guessing Beal will be back in the next 3 games or so, possibly even tomorrow.

I was thinking Waiters would be more than just a stopgap. He would be our backup SG. Moreover, he'd be almost the default backup PG since he'd be playing alongside Temple on the second unit and Temple isn't really a set-up guy. Waiters looks terrible when trying to fit into a lineup with better offensive players. His inability to play off the ball is crippling to both OKC and Cleveland. But last year on a bad Cleveland team, he did really well whenever Kyrie was out. My thinking is that our 2nd unit is kinda like that Cleveland team without Kyrie.

Rather than force Waiters to change his style, just utilize him to do the things he does best.

Nate, meet Randy Wittman. Randy, meet Nate...

Ha, my thought exactly. Also petrifies me to have Beal and Waiters competing for most bricked long twos.

Over the last 21 games of Cleveland's season last year (Kyrie missed 8 of them), Waiters averaged 19.6 points per game (in 33 minutes) with a TS% of .530, 3.7 assists and 2.1 turnovers. That awful team managed to go 9-12 during that stretch, including 4-4 in the games that Kyrie missed.

Again, I'm looking at this in terms of risk/reward. We are risking nothing, so any reward at all is good.

[gambitx777]

...I think an IT trade would result in us trading Kevin and maybe Blair. But if that were to happen and we include a future protected first we would get Plumlee in return, witch in low minutes he is better than kevin IMO. Plumlee is better on D and while you will miss the hook shot, he will give you similar overall offensive production, while being efficient and his rim protection will be greatly appreciated!. I think a
Kevin, Blair, Gooden and protected future first.
For
IT and Plumlee
makes a lot of sense. ....

Seraphin and Gooden are UFAs at the end of the season; they have no value. Blair can't have much trade value at present. So, basically, you're suggesting we swap a future protected R1 pick for Isaiah Thomas and Miles Plumlee.

Phoenix would have to feel awfully generous to make that trade! And, yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd do that deal!!

Thing is, Gambit, if you were the Phoenix GM, you *wouldn't* do that deal. For starters, you rate Plumlee higher than Seraphin -- you just said that (and you're right, btw).

the premise is that the suns might have been trying to restore balance to the team and clear cap for next year. Under that goal this deal would make more sense. Kevin and Blair help to balance out a guard heavy team and that pick can be valued as a future asset. Plus they get a decent amount of cap room back for next season. I value Plumlee more for our team thats not saying that kevin might not fit better with the suns than plumlee does.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Hopefull Ernie pulls one out of his hat toda.

[LyricalRico]

Ken Berger @KBergCBS 1 minute ago

Lots of moving parts in OKC-Nets talks. Brooklyn needs to include Jarrett Jack in deal, source says, and still would have backcourt logjam.

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz3SCvpp9Df

I doubt that OKC wants to add Jack's contract. Can we get involved? Maybe we can send Miller to OKC and Webster to Brooklyn, while taking back Jack and another contract that ends by 2016. Doesn't hurt our 2016 cap by much, but solves our third guard problem.

[Dark Faze]

...I think an IT trade would result in us trading Kevin and maybe Blair. But if that were to happen and we include a future protected first we would get Plumlee in return, witch in low minutes he is better than kevin IMO. Plumlee is better on D and while you will miss the hook shot, he will give you similar overall offensive production, while being efficient and his rim protection will be greatly appreciated!. I think a
Kevin, Blair, Gooden and protected future first.
For
IT and Plumlee
makes a lot of sense. ....

Seraphin and Gooden are UFAs at the end of the season; they have no value. Blair can't have much trade value at present. So, basically, you're suggesting we swap a future protected R1 pick for Isaiah Thomas and Miles Plumlee.

Phoenix would have to feel awfully generous to make that trade! And, yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd do that deal!!

Thing is, Gambit, if you were the Phoenix GM, you *wouldn't* do that deal. For starters, you rate Plumlee higher than Seraphin -- you just said that (and you're right, btw).

the premise is that the suns might have been trying to restore balance to the team and clear cap for next year. Under that goal this deal would make more sense. Kevin and Blair help to balance out a guard heavy team and that pick can be valued as a future asset. Plus they get a decent amount of cap room back for next season. I value Plumlee more for our team thats not saying that kevin might not fit better with the suns than plumlee does.

Pretty much this. The other guys are just filler. It's a way for the Suns to get an asset as well as wipe away a move they seem to be regretting.

*shrug* Not making a move is equivalent to tanking the season imo. The record is what it is. We don't beat good teams in this conference.

[nate33]

Ken Berger @KBergCBS 1 minute ago

Lots of moving parts in OKC-Nets talks. Brooklyn needs to include Jarrett Jack in deal, source says, and still would have backcourt logjam.

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz3SCvpp9Df

I doubt that OKC wants to add Jack's contract. Can we get involved? Maybe we can send Miller to OKC and Webster to Brooklyn, while taking back Jack and another contract that ends by 2016. Doesn't hurt our 2016 cap by much, but solves our third guard problem.

$6.3M in 2016/17 salary does hurt our 2016 cap situation quite a bit. The idea would be awesome if Jack came off the books in 2016, but he doesn't, so it's a no-go.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Plumlee is better than Seraphin in low minutes, high minutes, up minutes, down minutes, sideways minutes, diagonal minutes -- any kind of minutes. If the Wizards could trade some combination of a 1st round pick, Seraphin, Gooden, Blair, Miller, Butler, Webster and get Thomas and Plumlee, they'd be insane not to do it.

[Dark Faze]

Ken Berger @KBergCBS 1 minute ago

Lots of moving parts in OKC-Nets talks. Brooklyn needs to include Jarrett Jack in deal, source says, and still would have backcourt logjam.

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz3SCvpp9Df

I doubt that OKC wants to add Jack's contract. Can we get involved? Maybe we can send Miller to OKC and Webster to Brooklyn, while taking back Jack and another contract that ends by 2016. Doesn't hurt our 2016 cap by much, but solves our third guard problem.

$6.3M in 2016/17 salary does hurt our 2016 cap situation quite a bit. The idea would be awesome if Jack came off the books in 2016, but he doesn't, so it's a no-go.

Didn't the players reject salary smoothing? Meaning the 2016 cap is projected to be more than 90 million.

[nate33]

I doubt that OKC wants to add Jack's contract. Can we get involved? Maybe we can send Miller to OKC and Webster to Brooklyn, while taking back Jack and another contract that ends by 2016. Doesn't hurt our 2016 cap by much, but solves our third guard problem.

$6.3M in 2016/17 salary does hurt our 2016 cap situation quite a bit. The idea would be awesome if Jack came off the books in 2016, but he doesn't, so it's a no-go.

Didn't the players reject salary smoothing? Meaning the 2016 cap is projected to be more than 90 million.

That's the latest word so far, but I don't think anything is final. I'm not willing to gamble on it. Also, if it turns out that we do indeed have an extra $10M or so in cap room, I don't think the wisest use of it is to give $6.3M to Jarrett Jack. I'd rather find a $3M a year PG like DJ Augustine, and then spend $7M on a quality stretch four.

[Dat2U]

Plumlee is better than Seraphin in low minutes, high minutes, up minutes, down minutes, sideways minutes, diagonal minutes -- any kind of minutes. If the Wizards could trade some combination of a 1st round pick, Seraphin, Gooden, Blair, Miller, Butler, Webster and get Thomas and Plumlee, they'd be insane not to do it.

Ernie says no, they don't think Seraphin's low post game can be easily replaced.

[Dark Faze]

The thing is, under the new cap guys like DJ are going to be 6 million a year guys. I don't like Jack, but its why having control of a 20 PER Isaiah Thomas for 4 years is an absolute steal.

[nuposse04]

The afflalo trade kinda sets the market right? A protected 1st for a quality rotation guy.

With the market set, a below average player like Cole has to have a lower asking price, I'd imagine anyways.

[MikeTheKid]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/568454735436644352[/tweet]


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO