Coro and Elhassan explain why Dragic is demanding a trade and how this affects the present & future

[Revived]

This a must listen podcast. I know rsvaj already listened to it last night so would love to see him chime in his thoughts from listening to it as well. If you want to know anything at all about why all this happened, I highly recommend you listen to it. It may seem long but I guarantee you won't find it boring once you start listening to it.

Here's a link to it, you don't have to download it, you can listen to it by clicking the play icon which is after the download link:

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/ ... adline-and

Here are some of the observations I made throughout it that I'll summarize to my discretion but again, I still think you would be a fool to just take my word and not listen to it yourself:

- This isn’t something that just happened over night. Coro says that Dragic had been bothered about having to play the wing position and not getting the ball like he used to. They said that the biggest difference and hardest adjustment for Goran has been that he’s forced to get the ball in catch and shoot situations as opposed to how him and Bledsoe both had it last year.

- Goran also hated how he had to guard other wing players on defense because they typically always had size advantage on him.

- Coro says Dragic is one of the nicest players to ever play for the Suns and that the fact that he’s coming out and saying this means that it really must have bothered him that much.

- Coro says that he asked Dragic privately if trading IT would mean he would come back and Coro said that Dragic danced around the question because Coro said if Goran actually answered the question, then he would probably say that yes he’s fine with him and Bledsoe but Goran isn’t the type to throw a teammate under the bus so he wouldn’t admit it.

- Coro says that reason Dragic would still want out even if IT is traded is because he doesn’t trust the FO to screw him over again and sign or trade for another PG again even after trading IT. And both Dave King and Amin agreed with this as well.

- He also says that IT wants to start and that he’s been wanting to start since the beginning. And that IT still wants to start and that he is actually not happy with his role. IT was only happy with coming off the bench if they were winning and a sure lock playoff team and right now Suns have lost 7 of past 10 games so he isn’t happy.

- He says Dragic is not only unhappy one. Gerald Green, Miles Plumlee, Marcus Morris, PJ Tucker are all unhappy or have been unhappy at some point of the season.

- Coro also blasted the Suns drafting Tyler Ennis. Basically echoed my feelings when they made the deal at draft time.

- Even if Dragic gets traded, they think that Goodwin, Ennis, Warren etc will likely not be getting much additional playing time if at all.

- They think Suns will start Gerald Green when Goran gets traded.

- Amin says people (including the Suns) are underestimating the role that Frye played in terms of playing on the court AND that he had a strong voice in the locker room in keeping everyone together.

- Amin says he thinks IT was told that he would be a starter in PHX and that IT did not like how they gave Bledsoe a fat contract after signing him.

- Amin also says that it was obvious that Goran has been unhappy throughout the entire season.

- Dave King says that Hornacek has been super dismissive whenever asked about Goran’s role on the team throughout all season long.

- Both Amin, Coro and all others all agreed that despite stats showing whatever it does, Dragic was not been used same as last season and that he was taking different shots, different assists, different rebounds and different way in terms of scoring than last season w/o Bledsoe and with Bledsoe.

- Both Amin and Coro said that they think the FO knew that Dragic was unhappy but they thought that since Goran is such a good boy who wouldn’t complain or anything,that he would go along with it and not demand a trade or anything like that. This part was what astonished me the most, it seemed like they were taking advantage of Dragic’s personality.

- Amin says Dragic demanding trade does look good for the Suns in the public eye because other free agents and agents will look and say “Hm if a guy like Goran who bleeds the purple and orange and is such a quiet, nice guy came out and said all this about the Suns, then do I really want to sign with Suns?”.

- Amin says he thinks Dragic is worth top $$ now. He says when other teams look at him they’ll say “Here’s a guy who is capable of being maybe top 5 PG in the NBA and has excellent size and length so that he’s versatile enough to move over to SG in spot minutes if needed. He also says that that cap room going up and the inflation affecting that makes Dragic worth it more. Also says that Dragic was a backup for much of his career so he doesn’t have much wear and tear on him so less chance of him breaking down later in the contract. Coro btw did not think that Dragic is worth max money.

- Amin also says that if the Suns never signed IT, Goran wouldn’t have lost trust in the FO and that this problem would have never happened. He goes into better detail, you should really listen (around the 48 min mark).

- Amin again talks about how this is a black hole for Suns in terms of attracting other players. He also says money talks but if a player were to choose between Suns and another team that’s offering max contracts, then player choose another team because of it.

- Also says Suns deserve most of the blame and that he doesn’t blame Dragic for being unhappy. Amin also says that only blame he would place on Goran is questioning why he waited til 2 days before trade deadline to make this demand where as if he said it earlier then Suns may have been able to accommodate him better.

- Amin also has a message for the fans: “I just want to tell the fans that I hope they realize this was never going to be easy ever since they added the 3rd point guard. This was always going to be a difficult situation regardless of how many games they won in a row at one point or the other.”

- Dave King says that Hornacek didn’t realize that nobody (not just Dragic) bought into his 3 pg system and that he didn’t force anything to change. He says if he knew Goran was gonna lash out like this, he probably would have made a conscious effort to give Goran the ball more especially since their on a losing streak so to try something different at least.

This is a great listen; you’d be doing yourself a huge disservice if you just read my comments and didn't listen to the podcast itself. There’s so much more than I mentioned on here. I don’t even typically like listening to podcasts because I find them boring and long but this one is absolutely worth it.

Its long but its absolutely worth it if you want to know how this entire fiasco came to be including info from people who are extremely close to the team. Amin is an ex Suns FO employee and if you think anyone here knows more about the Suns than Paul Coro, then your kidding yourselves.

[tdjm]

- Even if Dragic gets traded, they think that Goodwin, Ennis, Warren etc will likely not be getting much additional playing time if at all.

- They think Suns will start Gerald Green when Goran gets traded.

oh god please kill me

this is a rather unceremonious first post, but those 2 items are just agonizing to read

seriously i was just about to go to bed but now i can't sleep thinking about the fact that we might be starting gerald green in 2 days, **** me sideways

[Qwigglez]

Wait... why is PJ Tucker unhappy? GTFO then.

[TASTIC]

Great summary SF88 - will listen on my lunchbreak - cheers!

[lilfishi22]

Thanks for the summary sf88. I'll give it a listen tomorrow.

From the sound of things, it definitely sounded like the Suns were negligent in not only realizing Dragic's unhappiness but also his right to lash out. I mean, it f'n sucks what he did to us leaking out his intentions but our FO shouldnt have taken his quiet nature for granted.

Chalk this up to McD's inexperience?

[bigfoot]

Wait... why is PJ Tucker unhappy? GTFO then.

Of course Tucker would be unhappy. Marcus, Tucker, Green, and Plumlee were all listed as unhappy this season. All were in and out of the starting lineup. Also, the first three often take a hit in playing time when they go with the three-headed monster.

[bigfoot]

The question I have is did Goran ever sit down with the Suns and say I'm not happy playing this way until two days ago? He should have indicated he would like his role changed or be traded several months ago. It sounds like he was just a church mouse and didn't want to rock the boat with the coach and GM. How would the front office and coaching staff know if he was unhappy? Being a quiet, passive, non-communicator is bad when things are going roughly. To me it sounds like he put on the smiley face, said the right things, but behind the scene let the anger and rage build and then threw the team under the bus. Basically he has screwed the Suns reputation. That hurts his current teammates because the organization will have a tough time attracting good free agents.

[Orens]

The question I have is did Goran ever sit down with the Suns and say I'm not happy playing this way until two days ago? He should have indicated he would like his role changed or be traded several months ago. It sounds like he was just a church mouse and didn't want to rock the boat with the coach and GM. How would the front office and coaching staff know if he was unhappy? Being a quiet, passive, non-communicator is bad when things are going roughly. To me it sounds like he put on the smiley face, said the right things, but behind the scene let the anger and rage build and then threw the team under the bus. Basically he has screwed the Suns reputation. That hurts his current teammates because the organization will have a tough time attracting good free agents.

Exactly.
Dragic claimed he was frustrated for two freakin' years and wanted to be the only playmaker, but:
1. He DID ask for another playmaker after the 12/13 season.
2. He DID hope for the resigning of Bledsoe last August - after Ennis was drafted and Thomas was signed.
3. He was interviewed by the Slovenian media, saying he IS going to opt out from his contract and then quickly re-sign with the Suns.

That's on record, he was quoted saying all of it. Whether he's nice or not, he turned out to be a liar.
The fact is, the Suns Front Office HAD NO IDEA that was his state until two days ago. Had they knew, or had he told them earlier that was his wish, he was traded earlier with leverage and none of this **** would've happened. Might've been a surprise to us fans but after hearing about the details, that was acceptable.

But he chose the ugliest way possible.
He was my favorite active player even when he wasn't a Sun. I thought he was underutilized and could be used better but there's no way the Suns should trade him. Apparently, he didn't want to play with Bledsoe all along. He fooled us all.

I'm done with him, trade his ass ASAP. I'm fine with trading Thomas, Green, Plumlee, the other Zragic. Get good youth and picks.
Play Ennis, Warren, Bullock, Goodwin, hopefully Bogdan soon. See what you got in your hands, root for the Lakers, draft smart and come back stronger next year.
This is an amazingly young roster (the 3rd youngest in the league) which is about to get even younger. It has the potential to be really good soon, just hang tight and get over DragonGate.

[deb]

According to this Dragic came to the FO more than once, but nothing was done...
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... -mcdonough

While that meeting might be perceived as an act of brinksmanship on the part of Dragic, sources told Sporting News that, over the course of the year, Dragic’s camp has registered its complaints with Suns general manager Ryan McDonough on more than one occasion. But the Suns have not acted, and Dragic’s faith in the team has dwindled.

[bigfoot]

According to this Dragic came to the FO more than once, but nothing was done...
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... -mcdonough

While that meeting might be perceived as an act of brinksmanship on the part of Dragic, sources told Sporting News that, over the course of the year, Dragic’s camp has registered its complaints with Suns general manager Ryan McDonough on more than one occasion. But the Suns have not acted, and Dragic’s faith in the team has dwindled.

Probably should change from course of the year to course of the season. Which means 3 months. Dragic has gone from happy in May saying he would resign with the Suns to wanting out based on those three months.

[Frank Lee]

what a bungling mess McDuh created. What a sham offense Hornecek installed to accommodate the bungling mess. Just by the summary (haven't listened yet) the FO and coach have completely LOST this team.

Dragic gave a great big F-U to the front office... for all the little f-n around they've done. He, in a matter of a few days has made the Front Office accountable. No more should we ever here this mish mashed lawyer speak defending their actions. If it were just Dragic with the beef, then so be it. But this is half the f-n team. I hope the media has dropped the kid gloves and will bring some haymakers when the dust has settled. Even other players from the league have chimed in. I look forward to the Barkley validation bomb.

The past 9 months have been an utter failure from personnel to play book.

If you or I completely F-d Up an organization/work place so thoroughly, we'd be sacked. This has lasting repercussions with players. Trying to rebuild with a team that no one wants to join, no one trusts is nearly impossible. This is a far friendlier league, player wise. They talk amongst themselves and its apparent, in their minds, this FO will screw you. How do you fix that McDuh? Just trot out the Babbler for a calm down? Lance Blanks has to be enjoying the show, along with many owners. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody bails us out.

Sarver must be furious. He gave the car keys to McDuh, and then watched him as he ran over his favorite dog, plowed into his house and set it on fire. Whats done is done. Dark days ahead.

[BobbieL]

Good synopsis

I think the constant is still Sarver is the owner

I do think the signing of IT was dumb
Ennis - he was a first round pick, you have to take talent - but granted, they shouldn't have signed IT

But as far as unhappy players well

Green has kind of sucked this year
Tucker has been okay
Plumlee regressed
Mook has kind of regressed
Dragic
IT
I say they can all leave - the Suns need smart, wining playes - not overrated prima donnas. Losing Goran will be tough but he is not a Max player

[the_warden]

That Ennis pick was awful. It didn't make sense at the time (Gary Harris would've made more sense) and it only got worse after they signed IT.

[sunsfever68]

See everyone is mad at Dragic but when you understand behind the scenes it's of course Robert stupid Sarver messing things up and McD screwing up. Front office incompetencies once again by the Suns. The ennis pick made no sense. IT signing on bad faith saying he'd start was dumb IT has a right to be mad. Suns played Bled Dragic and IT.

You gotta trade IT now and appease Dragic and hope to resign him and mend the relationship

[rsavaj]

That's basically everything. Great summary man. I'll listen to it again today and see if I can add anything, but here's what I remember from last night.

Warning, this is going to be an insanely long post

-Dragic has been unhappy the whole season

-FO and Horny knew that, but didn't recognize the severity of his unhappiness; thought that he would be the last guy to rock the boat

-IT was injury insurance for Bledsoe. Amin says he thinks they told IT that Bledsoe was leaving and that he would start with Goran. Dave and Jim say that if you listen to what IT said at his press conference, it's clear that the FO told him he was brought in to be a backup, but that IT is just the kind of competitive dude who's going to compete for a starting position no matter what. Dude thinks he is a starter, and if the team is playing well, he's fine coming off the bench. When the team isn't playing well, he's gonna be vocal about wanting to start. Guys agree that IT probably wasn't in the long-term plans, and was just brought in to be Super Ish Smith for a year until they could think of something better next offseason.

-Dragic seemed mostly okay with Bledsoe last year, but still isn't fully content playing off-ball. IT signing that forced him almost exclusively off-ball was the major tipping point, but nobody really knows how Dragic would have A)reacted and B)played if Bledsoe was healthy the whole season last year. By the time Eric returned from injury, this was "Goran's team", and Bledsoe played a much more complementary role. Things could have gone differently if the two of them had to share the backcourt for the whole season; there's some speculation as to whether or not Goran would have felt as "okay" with the arrangement if they weren't making a strong playoff push last season, and if he didn't have that long stretch where he thrived by himself.

To summarize that long paragraph: Goran likes being the man. Goran may or may not have been okay sharing the backcourt with Bledsoe for the whole year, but it worked out since Bledsoe missed half the season and when he came back everybody was on board for the playoff push. Once IT came on board, Goran didn't even get to split PG duties...he was left in the corner, and that (very obviously and understandably) completely alienated him.

-Dave says Horny has brushed off this issue every time Dave asked him about it through the season, but Amin points out that it doesn't do Horny any good to readily admit to the media that there's a problem, and that we shouldn't assume that he wasn't aware of it/just trying to keep it in-house.

-Drafting Ennis made no sense after you signed IT, because if the Hydra worked out, when was Ennis EVER going to play here? Speculation that it was an asset grab by McDonough who wasn't able to make the deal with Toronto(who really wanted Ennis) go through. Now, with Dragic and maybe even IT gone by tomorrow, Ennis becomes an important piece moving forward

-Losing Channing hurt Goran's game, hurt Eric's game, and hurt us in the lockerroom

-Coro says Dragic is the very nicest guy in the entire league. Amin says that by publicly saying "I don't trust the Suns FO", he's damaged our reputation with players around the league. Given the way Grant Hill left the Suns with a sour taste in his mouth, this whole encounter amounts to a stain on the Suns' reputation

-Young dudes may or may not get minutes depending on what the Suns get back in the trade. Dave speculated that since we're still technically in the playoff hunt, the young dudes won't be getting much PT until we start losing a lot of games, maybe next month. Said that the guys on the team really do want to make the playoffs

-Amin says Suns failed to maintain a pulse on the lockerroom/team dynamic

-Amin says when Dragic is the only PG on the floor, he's a top 5 PG who is worth the money. Coro says he's not sure he'd want to sign Goran to a deal that pays him $20 million when he's 33.

-All 4 parties agreed that there's no chance Dragic re-signs this summer unless you give him $100 million over 5 years

-Dave says that better communication could have prevented this. Must have been a series of misunderstandings between the FO and Dragic(as far as the "broken promises" Goran is referring to)

-Dave says you have to give the Suns FO credit for one thing: they've never wavered on their desire and agenda to keep Dragic longterm. Ever.
-------------------------------------------

If you want my take on it...let's talk about the FO first.

They made a few moves in a vacuum that you could defend when you looked at them alone: was Channing worth 8 million a year x 4 years? No. But he's worth more to us than anybody else. You know his value on and off the court, but you made a calculated risk that you could let him go and replace him with Tolliver. Didn't work.

Was IT a value grab at his production/price, and great insurance in case Bledsoe left/got injured? Sure. But when you want your three best players on the court at the end of the game, how are you going to do that when they all play the same position? You're forcing your coach to play an offensive system that makes no damn sense. And this is particularly egregious because IT has a reputation for being a fierce competitor; no matter whether or not you told him that he was being brought in to be Jason Terry, you KNOW that the guy is going to want to start, no matter what.

McDonough and Babby have reversed our trajectory from the team's darkest day in the past 10 years. The day that I'm referring to is when they fired Gentry and promoted Lindsey Hunter. Majerle resigned. Turner resigned. The team was in the middle of the worst season in franchise history. Absolutely rudderless. Do you guys remember how we felt on that day? That was the most miserable I've felt as a Suns fan in a really, really long time.

McDonough came on board, turned things around, stocked our coffers with assets and young talent. Dudley for Bledsoe, amazing move that singlehandedly changed the franchise's direction. Drafting Len, amazing move. Drafting Goodwin? Looks like they grabbed the guy with the most upside remaining, so no fault there. Getting Miles, Green and a first for Scola, great move. Trading Gortat for a first was a push...guy didn't want to be on a rebuilding team, and we got a first for it, but maybe we could have gotten more. Drafting Warren? Hopefully a great move. Drafting Ennis(via Gortat trade)? Really confused by that one, but at least it was worth the college try.

McD has played the asset game very, very well, and he has changed the direction of our franchise because of it.

But here's the thing about the asset game....when you accumulate asset after asset after asset, some of your assets grow stale. Some of your players start feeling like commodities instead of people. You're in a race against time to cash in your assets before your assets start to feel fed up, and we're seeing that right now. This is basically the reason players don't like playing for Daryl Morey, SO MUCH SO that Woj said Goran doesn't want to go to Houston because he's afraid Morey will trade him. No joke.

This is McDonough's first misstep after a series of excellent moves, and what a misstep it is.

Do I think that this means McD is an incompetent GM? No. I think he's a very good GM. I think he rescued this franchise from a much darker place two seasons ago. Despite how all of this is going down, we still have one of the best PGs in the league locked up long-term(Bledsoe), and funnily enough...we do have PG "insurance"...it's just not for the guy we thought it was going to be. We still have cap flexibility. We still literally have more young talent than we know what to do with.

But this IS a misstep. An enormous one, borne from McDonough's inexperience. And how we rebound from this will dictate the franchise's future prospects in a big way.
------------------------------------------

Now let's talk about how Goran's handling this.

Goran has every right to demand a max contract.
Goran has every right to not want to share a backcourt with another point guard anymore, be it Bledsoe or Thomas.
Goran has every right to feel slighted by this front office.

But he made things so much uglier than they needed to be. By going public with his trade demand 48 hours before the deadline, he's handicapped this franchise and cut them off at the knees. The FO has no leverage. No bargaining power. No time to find a deal.

There really doesn't seem to be any reason for Dragic(and his agent, that douchebag Bill Duffy) to time his request the way he did(instead, say, at the beginning of the break) other than to stick it to the FO.

Not only is the timing of the request messed up, but so is the actual request itself. He wants to be traded to where? LA? New York? Miami?

WHAT THE F***.

He wants to have the offense go through him, so he wants to go play with Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade? How the hell does that make any lick of sense?

It doesn't make sense. And in this way, Dragic has made the most steroetypical, most diva-esque trade demand ever. Cue Tom Ziller's article this morning:

Goran Dragic is one of the two best players on a team in position to potentially make the playoffs. He has asked to be traded specifically to one of three teams, all of which are much worse than his current team. One of those teams is the worst squad in the entire league.

The targeted cities -- Miami, New York and L.A. -- have the nation's best nightlife and the teams based there have traditionally been open to spending huge sums on payroll. The teams also offer an opportunity for Dragic, named one of the league's top six guards last season, to have a massive role as he wraps up a contract year.

So, Dragic is requesting to be traded from a rather good team to one of three rather bad teams for some combination of money, spotlight and nightlife. This is the most stereotypical NBA trade demand of all time. And it's coming from Goran Dragic.

Compare this move to the last "stereotypical NBA trade demand," when Carmelo Anthony requested a move to the Knicks in 2010 and 2011. Melo had picked one city, and that was in part based on his wife's career. Otherwise, it was a similar deal. Melo wanted to leave a good team for a historically poor one, primarily due to a combination of money* and location, with wins and championships a far lower priority. And Melo got killed for it in the media.

By my count, Dragic's request is even more brash, especially coming just days before the deadline. Melo's simmered for months, well in advance of his free agency.

Dragic's list of acceptable destinations is a combined 45-113 this season. At least the Knicks in 2010-11 had floated to a respectable .500ish level with Amare Stoudemire as Melo pushed. At least there had been talk about adding a third star (like Chris Paul) and creating a superteam. There's none of that with Dragic. And he can't honestly believe he'll be better off playing with Nick Young and Wes Johnson than with Eric Bledsoe and Markieff Morris.

It'll be interesting to see how the media treats Dragic, especially if he lands on a preferred team. My overriding position is that we shouldn't really care that certain people have different career and life priorities than others or ourselves. But if there was ever reason to ridicule an NBA diva for his blatant embodiment of the stereotypes of the modern NBA star, it's Dragic and it's now.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/19/8 ... stereotype

Goran's not saying, "please send me to a team where I can win the title." No. He's saying, "please send me to a team where I can be in the bright lights, enjoy the nightlife, and get paid. I don't care how bad it is."

And in that way, he's not the guy I thought he was. He's not the guy a lot of us thought he was, I suspect.

Also, by publicly saying that he doesn't trust the Suns front office, he's damaging our reputation around the entire league. Despite his differences with the FO, this really was a crappy move. It's badmouthing the entire organization because he's not happy with his own situation.


I place most of my blame on the FO, but Dragic is digging in the knife in a way he shouldn't, and doesn't need to. As detailed above, if it was any other player than Goran, he would be roasted in the media for it. This was one of the ugliest divorces I've ever seen in sports. I don't see any way the two sides can make up at this point. It's really sad that we got to this point.

I remember the day Dragic came back in 2012. Somehow we went from this:





to "I don't trust the Suns."

What a shame. What a damn shame.

We'll get through it. I'll get through it. I survived Charles, Shawn, Amare, and Steve. Those guys were Hall of Famers who almost led us to the mountaintop. If I can survive their departures, I can survive the Dragon's. Again.

Fin.

[sunsfever68]

Afflalo to Portland for a bunch of hot garbage and picks.

Great move for Portland getting Afflalo as a bench guard to help them win the west.

[DRK]

Rsavaj, those pictures make me really sad all of a sudden.

What a huge mess this has all been.

How could Hornacek POSSIBLY not have seen Dragic's frustration? Even I noticed it, and I'm halfway around the world watching dodgey streams that looks like the game was recorded with a toaster.

Ridiculous.

[Bogyo]

If you take the fact into consideration that he had alteraction in the lockerroom with another PG, like Traxxe told us in another thread, there is no way to say that the front office (or the coach) did not know about pretty much all of this in waaaay advance.

One other thing - if they knew about it and were just playing for Dragic to keep his mouth shut becouse he is that kind of guy, then they forgot the old, but VERY true saying: beware of the fury of a patient man.

[puma31]

If you take the fact into consideration that he had alteraction in the lockerroom with another PG, like Traxxe told us in another thread,

??? Link? Info?

[Barkley6]

Wait... why is PJ Tucker unhappy? GTFO then.

Because Tucker has no ISO game. When the guards or the Morri were looking for their own shot, Tucker was standing around doing nothing. It's not a coincidence that the 2 players who can't find their own shot (Plumlee and Tucker) saw a serious decrease in their scoring numbers.