Lopez for Reggie Jackson falls apart; Nets acquire Thad Young for KG (UPDATE: Page 58)

[kerry kittles]

T-Rob agreed to a buyout with the Nuggets. He's been a bust, not good, but if Blatche spurns us for Miami or another team i wouldn't be adversed to bringing him in and giving him a look. Could battle with Jefferson for minutes behind Young. Not saying he'd be good, but it's low risk.

[kerry kittles]

If we did land Jackson.. with it went like this...

Jack for A.Miller (maybe if we had done the Jackson trade earlier we could have snuck this in)
Lopez, Jordan, Brown for Perkins, Jackson, Lamb
JJ, Morris, Jefferson for Jennings, Datome, Butler, Jerebko, Protected #1

Knowing moving D.Will wasn't an option..
Buyout Datome
Sign Blatche

Jackson / D.Will / Miller / (Jennings)
Anderson / Lamb / Karasev
Bogdanovic / Butler
Young / Jerebko / Mirza
Plumlee / Blatche / Perkins

A terrible team that likely gives Atlanta a top 6 pick but at least we'd be in good position next year with just...

Jackson / D.Will / Jennings
Lamb / Karasev
Bogdanovic / ATL #1
Young / (Mirza)
Plumlee / (Blatche)
+
DET #1

Young (if he opts in) and Jennings would be expiring.
Jackson, Lamb, Mirza restricted FAs

If we're dumping Lopez and Joe for expirings plus Jackson and a 1st then this trade would make no sense. Just let KG expire with the rest of them instead of taking on Thad Young for another year. Thad Young makes us better now, but hurts our financial flexibility. The proposed Joe trade makes us worse, but improves financial flexibility. They're two conflicting types of trades. I can't see the rationale for making both.

Perhaps.
We'd be under the cap so I think it would be worth the risk, especially since he expires by 2016 which is the more important time for cap space. The one thing I like about the Thad trade is that it makes us younger and more athletic. We get a preview of how he, or an uptempo PF would fit on this team. If it doesn't work don't resign him, but at least we'd have a better idea of what works with Jackson and Plumlee who look like potential long term pieces.

Yes, I think it would have to be a 1st that isn't too well protected to do the Joe deal. He expires in 2016 like you mention is more important for us. And we're better between now in then with him starting instead of a wing rotation of Butler/Bogdanovic/Anderson. It would have to be a real asset to make the trade. I don't love the idea of paying Reggie Jackson $12 million plus so I wasn't enthralled with that idea. The real trade that i liked the most of all the rumored offerings (assuming we couldn't get McGary from OKC) was Brook for Zeller/Lance. I don't love Lance as he's been awful this year, but it gave us a real asset in Zeller. I understand he doesn't compliment Plumlee, but it helps to acquire assets: one who is 22 and drafted 4th a year ago. If Sac was interested in taking Deron on for Plumlee, maybe they'd do Zeller and something else in the offseason. Open things up more us in 2016 by getting his contract off the books.

[Trader_Joe]

If we're dumping Lopez and Joe for expirings plus Jackson and a 1st then this trade would make no sense. Just let KG expire with the rest of them instead of taking on Thad Young for another year. Thad Young makes us better now, but hurts our financial flexibility. The proposed Joe trade makes us worse, but improves financial flexibility. They're two conflicting types of trades. I can't see the rationale for making both.

Perhaps.
We'd be under the cap so I think it would be worth the risk, especially since he expires by 2016 which is the more important time for cap space. The one thing I like about the Thad trade is that it makes us younger and more athletic. We get a preview of how he, or an uptempo PF would fit on this team. If it doesn't work don't resign him, but at least we'd have a better idea of what works with Jackson and Plumlee who look like potential long term pieces.

Yes, I think it would have to be a 1st that isn't too well protected to do the Joe deal. He expires in 2016 like you mention is more important for us. And we're better between now in then with him starting instead of a wing rotation of Butler/Bogdanovic/Anderson. It would have to be a real asset to make the trade. I don't love the idea of paying Reggie Jackson $12 million plus so I wasn't enthralled with that idea. The real trade that i liked the most of all the rumored offerings (assuming we couldn't get McGary from OKC) was Brook for Zeller/Lance. I don't love Lance as he's been awful this year, but it gave us a real asset in Zeller. I understand he doesn't compliment Plumlee, but it helps to acquire assets: one who is 22 and drafted 4th a year ago. If Sac was interested in taking Deron on for Plumlee, maybe they'd do Zeller and something else in the offseason. Open things up more us in 2016 by getting his contract off the books.

I just heard about that the other day.. if that was truly an option, it's unforgivable we didn't do (Lance and Zeller), so yeah.. much rather do that. Wait.. was that for JJ or Lopez?

[Trader_Joe]

T-Rob agreed to a buyout with the Nuggets. He's been a bust, not good, but if Blatche spurns us for Miami or another team i wouldn't be adversed to bringing him in and giving him a look. Could battle with Jefferson for minutes behind Young. Not saying he'd be good, but it's low risk.

I'd still give him a flier if Blatche doesn't want to come back.
He's young, athletic and can rebound. Couldn't hurt.

[kerry kittles]

Perhaps.
We'd be under the cap so I think it would be worth the risk, especially since he expires by 2016 which is the more important time for cap space. The one thing I like about the Thad trade is that it makes us younger and more athletic. We get a preview of how he, or an uptempo PF would fit on this team. If it doesn't work don't resign him, but at least we'd have a better idea of what works with Jackson and Plumlee who look like potential long term pieces.

Yes, I think it would have to be a 1st that isn't too well protected to do the Joe deal. He expires in 2016 like you mention is more important for us. And we're better between now in then with him starting instead of a wing rotation of Butler/Bogdanovic/Anderson. It would have to be a real asset to make the trade. I don't love the idea of paying Reggie Jackson $12 million plus so I wasn't enthralled with that idea. The real trade that i liked the most of all the rumored offerings (assuming we couldn't get McGary from OKC) was Brook for Zeller/Lance. I don't love Lance as he's been awful this year, but it gave us a real asset in Zeller. I understand he doesn't compliment Plumlee, but it helps to acquire assets: one who is 22 and drafted 4th a year ago. If Sac was interested in taking Deron on for Plumlee, maybe they'd do Zeller and something else in the offseason. Open things up more us in 2016 by getting his contract off the books.

I just heard about that the other day.. if that was truly an option, it's unforgivable we didn't do (Lance and Zeller), so yeah.. much rather do that. Wait.. was that for JJ or Lopez?

That was for Lopez. A real head scratcher as to why Charlotte would do it as he doesn't fit at all with Al Jefferson. Guess they would flip him in a subsequent trade.

[MrDollarBills]

Why didn't king have a backup plan?

I don't want to trade lopez for nothing, but we should have moved him today.

Still can't believe we didn't do the Zeller and Stephenson deal.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

I dont understand all the back up plan posts. As if there are always trades to be found and you should do one at all costs. As for Lance...he sucks get over it.

You're right, glad we did nothing else. This team was a lot better standing pat. We will also make the playoffs.

Yeah, exactly. But let these King apologists tell the story.

**** outta here.

[MrDollarBills]

I was OK with the trade. And I am OK if he does walk. That wasnt my point. My point was I dont know how you were able to list the potential roster like that and add the word excitement. Blow it all up...fire the coach fire the GM and lets start again. Whatever. It didnt work lets not put a cheap bandaid on a gaping wound and call it a lifesaver.

This conveniently left out Jack and Karasev.

All in all, the only player worth crying about is Lilliard. Plumlee and Favors are basically the same level of player and Kanter isnt a good player. We got a good playoff run out of the deals as well last year. It's easy to look back after everything and be critical but if we got Paul instead of DWill, we would have had a chance a a chip. He is the single biggest reason this era failed. Johnson and Pierce won us a playoff series while Garnett turned Plumlee into a good NBA player and just got us Young.

I think we will make the 7th seed after this trade if we resign Blatche. It was annoying having to ceremonially start KG when he was obviously not our best option at PF.

There are other things to be upset with. In addition to the moronic Gerald Wallace trade, the contract we gave him was equally as dumb. In our deal with the Celtics we essentially traded a pick for Paul, a pick for KG, a pick for them to take Gerald Wallace, and pick swaps because Billi King loves giving them out. Without having to eat Gerald Wallace for 3 years/$30, we could've got away with getting them for two 1st round picks.

The pick swaps and the 1st given forJoe were unnecessary.

If he didn't trade for Wallace we could've had Harrison Barnes who is just what this team needed
If he didn't extend Wallace to the tune of 4 years/$40 million. We would have control of our own pick before 2019.
If he didn't throw in the swaps in the Joe deal we wouldn't be worrying about sending a lotto pick to Atlanta this year.

Who knows how things shakeout exactly in MDB's diagram, but those three things he did really set the franchise back.

I'm not sure how ANYONE with a sane mind can look at that chart and try to spin things in a positive light, but the one thing I've learned is that Net fans are **** ing DELUSIONAL.

[Trader_Joe]

This conveniently left out Jack and Karasev.

All in all, the only player worth crying about is Lilliard. Plumlee and Favors are basically the same level of player and Kanter isnt a good player. We got a good playoff run out of the deals as well last year. It's easy to look back after everything and be critical but if we got Paul instead of DWill, we would have had a chance a a chip. He is the single biggest reason this era failed. Johnson and Pierce won us a playoff series while Garnett turned Plumlee into a good NBA player and just got us Young.

I think we will make the 7th seed after this trade if we resign Blatche. It was annoying having to ceremonially start KG when he was obviously not our best option at PF.

There are other things to be upset with. In addition to the moronic Gerald Wallace trade, the contract we gave him was equally as dumb. In our deal with the Celtics we essentially traded a pick for Paul, a pick for KG, a pick for them to take Gerald Wallace, and pick swaps because Billi King loves giving them out. Without having to eat Gerald Wallace for 3 years/$30, we could've got away with getting them for two 1st round picks.

The pick swaps and the 1st given forJoe were unnecessary.

If he didn't trade for Wallace we could've had Harrison Barnes who is just what this team needed
If he didn't extend Wallace to the tune of 4 years/$40 million. We would have control of our own pick before 2019.
If he didn't throw in the swaps in the Joe deal we wouldn't be worrying about sending a lotto pick to Atlanta this year.

Who knows how things shakeout exactly in MDB's diagram, but those three things he did really set the franchise back.

I'm not sure how ANYONE with a sane mind can look at that chart and try to spin things in a positive light, but the one thing I've learned is that Net fans are **** ing DELUSIONAL.

Yes we are!
And you are one too.
You just happen to be the angriest out of all of us and still delusional.

[VCRJKidd15]

Jackson looks like a over hyped scrub to me I'm kind of glad we didn't trade for him just to over pay him...He somehow thinks he deserves max money, No thanks. I'm just glad we ended up with Thad

[CalamityX12]

There's king apologists???

[Trader_Joe]

There's king apologists???

If they only let him draft players and maybe work on minor FAs while hiring a separate trade and major FA GM he wouldn't be too bad.

[F3LON]

This conveniently left out Jack and Karasev.

All in all, the only player worth crying about is Lilliard. Plumlee and Favors are basically the same level of player and Kanter isnt a good player. We got a good playoff run out of the deals as well last year. It's easy to look back after everything and be critical but if we got Paul instead of DWill, we would have had a chance a a chip. He is the single biggest reason this era failed. Johnson and Pierce won us a playoff series while Garnett turned Plumlee into a good NBA player and just got us Young.

I think we will make the 7th seed after this trade if we resign Blatche. It was annoying having to ceremonially start KG when he was obviously not our best option at PF.

There are other things to be upset with. In addition to the moronic Gerald Wallace trade, the contract we gave him was equally as dumb. In our deal with the Celtics we essentially traded a pick for Paul, a pick for KG, a pick for them to take Gerald Wallace, and pick swaps because Billi King loves giving them out. Without having to eat Gerald Wallace for 3 years/$30, we could've got away with getting them for two 1st round picks.

The pick swaps and the 1st given forJoe were unnecessary.

If he didn't trade for Wallace we could've had Harrison Barnes who is just what this team needed
If he didn't extend Wallace to the tune of 4 years/$40 million. We would have control of our own pick before 2019.
If he didn't throw in the swaps in the Joe deal we wouldn't be worrying about sending a lotto pick to Atlanta this year.

Who knows how things shakeout exactly in MDB's diagram, but those three things he did really set the franchise back.

I'm not sure how ANYONE with a sane mind can look at that chart and try to spin things in a positive light, but the one thing I've learned is that Net fans are **** ing DELUSIONAL.

Considering that Jack is the best player on the team this year, that's a big omittion. Plus Karasev is the equivalent of one of those picks. He would cancel out James young for example.

Outside of the Wallace trade and resigning, I dont think that BK has done a bad job.

I would still do the DWill trade today knowing what I know.

I think the JJ trade was a steal for us. Winning us a playoff series and being the best player for most of his Net tenure means something.

The Boston trade has gotten better every time BK flips one of the pieces for an asset. You have to factor in the last year's team success also. We basically rented Pierce for a year. Turned Terry into Thornton who had playoff success. Thornton turned into Jack and Karasev. Jack has been great while Karasev is a pup with some upside. KG made up for his poor play by mentoring Plumlee and now getting us Young.

Alot of the criticism is misplaced on BK. It's not the trades that have killed us so much as the misuse of the MMLE. Mirza over Green, AK and then Bogs over Pierce were big mistakes. They were however directed by management. It seem that when BK gets to run the show he makes decent decisions for the most part. Plumlee, Young, JJ, Blatche, Anderson and Jack have all exceeded expectations IMO. It's DWill's decline and Lopez's injuries that have doomed this team. If Irving and Love suddenly break down I dont think Lebron and a bunch of role players would be enough to be successful. So expecting Johnson to carry the Nets, a much lesser player obviously, is expecting too much.

The good news is that Lopez can salvage his career still being that he is only 26. Plumlee (24) and Young (26) are both entering their prime and are good role players. We have good ISO players in JJ and Jack who are capable scorers. All we are missing is a quality SG. We have to swap picks with the Hawks which sucks but we still have a 1st round pick this year. I dont see why we cant trade up and get a SG. SGs always slide in the draft since most teams at the top usually go for size or playmakers. We also have the MMLE to use on a SG like Gerald Green or Bellinelli.

Today's trade was a good step in the right direction. I am very happy that we got something for KG.

[VCRJKidd15]

There's king apologists???

If they only let him draft players and maybe work on minor FAs while hiring a separate trade and major FA GM he wouldn't be too bad.

I agree. He's made dumb trades but has an eye for certain talent. The Gerald Wallace trade pretty much ruined the positive future this team could have had.

[Trader_Joe]

There's king apologists???

If they only let him draft players and maybe work on minor FAs while hiring a separate trade and major FA GM he wouldn't be too bad.

I agree. He's made dumb trades but has an eye for certain talent. The Gerald Wallace trade pretty much ruined the positive future this team could have had.

I'd say Deron Williams did all by himself. If he played like the player we traded for we'd be fine, but because were cursed his body and game fell apart the minute he got here. When 1/3 of your payroll and your top assets go up in smoke there was really nothing we could do. As for the trade itself it seemed like a no brainer at the time but no one saw such a fall from grace coming.

Of things he had control over the Wallace trade was his biggest mistake. I understood the logic..our SF position sucked and we were just a few games back if the playoffs with Lopez expected back, but the pick needed to be lotto protected...or don't make them take Shawnee Williams which made the protection lesser. That mistake as compounded by his second worst decision IMO ..the contract. It should have been 3 years at about 7 or 8m tops. Even that would have been an overpay in hindsight but would have looked reasonable at the time.

Take away the pick swaps and the JJ deal would have been fine. JJs been our most consistent player and helped us win a PO series. We gave up a host of terrible players to get him and a lotto protected Houston pick which should have been plenty. Adding the pick swaps was just unnecessary and would have saved us a lot of stress and given us more options this year.

The Boston trade was something that is easy to judge negatively upon in hindsight but most of us loved it at the time. However...had Wallace had a reasonable contract like say the 3/24 we could have kept a first rounder and I see no reason we needed to add a pick swap either. It wasn't a massive overpay, neither was the Atlanta deal but they still were overpays that add up. We should have our own pick this year as opposed to Atlanta's, our '16 or '18 pick from Boston and no pick swap in '17. That's three assets from those two trades alone.... Not to mention we should have that Portland pick.

Sad thing is King has even said he doesnt mind overpaying in trade and wants the other GM to feel good about trades. That's absurd. And considering how much he likes to trade it all adds up.

A few if his trades have worked...T.Will, Thornton for Jack and Karasev, but they are few and far between.

[VCRJKidd15]

If they only let him draft players and maybe work on minor FAs while hiring a separate trade and major FA GM he wouldn't be too bad.

I agree. He's made dumb trades but has an eye for certain talent. The Gerald Wallace trade pretty much ruined the positive future this team could have had.

I'd say Deron Williams did all by himself. If he played like the player we traded for we'd be fine, but because were cursed his body and game fell apart the minute he got here. When 1/3 of your payroll and your top assets go up in smoke there was really nothing we could do. As for the trade itself it seemed like a no brainer at the time but no one saw such a fall from grace coming.

Yeah you're right but if the Wallace trade didn't happen and Deron still ended up sucking they'c have had more flexibility to make better moves.

[Paradise]

King is an idiot but let's be honest... This board would be rocking at the nucleus of Jackson, Jones, Young, Plumlee + 1st round pick via Atlanta had the trade went through. With a full MLE, BAE and S&T at our disposal this summer to further build a new identity.

While King did flat out get played by Presti, he did have the right idea in mind. I can't fault him there. Doesn't mean I don't hate him any less.

[Mkdaman1818]

Great article on why the Lopez deal was a bad one for OKC, and why they went with Detroit/Utah:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ke ... -questions

[Trader_Joe]

Great article on why the Lopez deal was a bad one for OKC, and why they went with Detroit/Utah:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ke ... -questions

Bit of a flawed article considering Jack wasn't going to OKC as they couldn't have afforded his salary in trade.

So yeah if the choices are Lopez and nothing or Kanter, Singler, Novak, Augustin they made the right choice but...they also added a 1st rounder and Tebor Pleiss (a decent Euro) who I never heard rumored our way.

But I'm not sure its still a great deal for them..
They gave up a first, a Euro, a nice expirer (also their best interior defender) and the best player in the deal for two scrubs (Singler, Novak) a major downgrade at backup PG and Kanter.

IMO Kanter is going to dissapoint them and then look for a max from them. He's a pretty bad defender who's game hasn't evolved much since coming into the league. Defensively he's not going to help against Duncan , Gasol, etc. (Perkins did) and offensively he's not good enough to make much of an impact against those guys either.

Sure he was the younger, healthier and safer pick relative to Lopez (not sure he was the answer either) but it seems they gave more to get him and I don't see the same amount of upside. They had to do something, but I think they overpaid and wonder what else they could have found.

[Keith Van Horn]

I am happy for KG and happy to get a quality, role playing PF in Young. I think he is a piece that we definitely can use. I know KG was a starter here b/c of his name, and in all honesty with what he was producing and how we should have limited him, he should have been a bench guy. Issue was Lopez, with poor play and all.

Now that KG is gone and we have a good 4, it will be fun to see Lopez and Plumlee continue to battle it out to be in the starting 5. I do think based upon the circumstance of KG leaving, that Lopez should start again. I want to see him play his ass off and earn it, but I think we are actually going to see a pissed off Lopez (b/c of all the trade rumors) and he's going to give us a good remainder of the season.

On the other side of things, I want to see Deron Williams do his usual bounce-back after the ASG. I would love to see this half of the season, our "big 3" one last time and see if they can perform. Everyone is coming off quality rest time, Deron and Lopez should be fired up to get back in the starting lineup, and we have a new young frontcourt player to add to the mix.


I think our biggest priority this coming up offseason will be based upon how well all of our guys play. But we still will need to get that SG/SF to put alongside Joe next year.

[MrDollarBills]

Also no excuses at this point. No more pussy basketball from Brook or Deron. I pray to god they play solid and consistent basketball and help their trade value so we can ship them out for better youth and assets this summer.

You seriously think that these two guys are going to play hard?

Williams is content on being a 2nd string PG making max dollars. Lopez will coast like he usually does and he'll walk in the summer for nothing.

There is nothing remotely good about the situation at hand. Nothing.