2014-2015 NBA MVP Discussion

[pelican piranha]

Wish LBJ would have gotten off to a start like this early in the season. Think it will be difficult for him to capture his fifth MVP, but still plenty of time. Guy is still clearly the best player in the league.

[makaveli_99]

barring a miracle... curry has this.

[makaveli_99]

Curry has my vote for MVP this year. He is playing great and so is his team. No one is catching up to them.

agree.. a little too late for lbj, and will be behind on record, same for westbrook. I don't see how anyone can get it over curry being the #1 seed in the entire NBA and great stats.

[CnG]

[stayeduptolate]

haha I love it

[LeChosen One]

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close. Curry has the better Orating/Drating, PER, WS/48, VORP, RPM, WAR, TS%, etc etc. Most of those by a significant margin. There's really no strong argument against Curry as is.

Would GS fall off a cliff without Curry? I doubt it. LeBron already has that going for him.

[Dupp]

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close.

Well thats really not true at all. Lebron is absolutely playing on Curry's level and is still the better player. Curry is the mvp but to suggest he's playing significantly better than Lebron is complete nonsense.

[rcontador]

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close. Curry has the better Orating/Drating, PER, WS/48, VORP, RPM, WAR, TS%, etc etc. Most of those by a significant margin. There's really no strong argument against Curry as is.

Would GS fall off a cliff without Curry? I doubt it. LeBron already has that going for him.

Having garbage teammates — which Lebron doesn't, btw, but whatever — doesn't help you in the MVP race, nor does it make you a better player.

[rcontador]

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close.

Well thats really not true at all. Lebron is absolutely playing on Curry's level and is still the better player. Curry is the mvp but to suggest he's playing significantly better than Lebron is complete nonsense.

Literally every single metric suggests Curry is playing "significantly better" than Lebron this year. And the Warriors are SO much better than the Cavs, with or without Lebron, that frankly it defies common sense to think otherwise.

[_Game7_]

Is it just me or does this MVP race have weak sauce written all over it? Seems people already made up there mind by January Curry was MVP. His raw numbers are not that impressive to me.

[Dupp]

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close.

Well thats really not true at all. Lebron is absolutely playing on Curry's level and is still the better player. Curry is the mvp but to suggest he's playing significantly better than Lebron is complete nonsense.

Literally every single metric suggests Curry is playing "significantly better" than Lebron this year. And the Warriors are SO much better than the Cavs, with or without Lebron, that frankly it defies common sense to think otherwise.

Advanced stats are significantly dependent on how good your team is. The fact the warriors have a much better team heavily influences currys stats like +/-. He is the MVP, no question. But to actually think he's playing significantly better than Lebron, especially since he's come back from injury is just false.
We do also have a decent record with Lebron in the team. Not as good as the warriors but fairly decent. If you think it defies common sense to think curry is playing significantly better than Lebron right now then no one, bar a few have any common sense. Lebron is playing like the best player in the world again.

He is significantly behind in the mvp race we can agree there but in terms of on court performance, no. Harden is also has a decent mvp lead on Lebron as well imo.

[Dupp]

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close.

Well thats really not true at all. Lebron is absolutely playing on Curry's level and is still the better player. Curry is the mvp but to suggest he's playing significantly better than Lebron is complete nonsense.

"Nonsense" that Curry's playing at a higher level despite all the facts and stats I mentioned that say otherwise? How is he not playing better individually right now, exactly?

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close. Curry has the better Orating/Drating, PER, WS/48, VORP, RPM, WAR, TS%, etc etc. Most of those by a significant margin. There's really no strong argument against Curry as is.

Would GS fall off a cliff without Curry? I doubt it. LeBron already has that going for him.

Curry has the #1 RPM in the NBA, #1 WS/48 in the NBA and #2 BPM in the NBA (#1 OBPM), that's pretty indicative of a player who is vital to his teams success. For reference, Klay plays alongside him for 80% of his minutes and doesn't rank in the top 30 in RPM. I also watch all their games. Yes, he is massively, massively important. They would be nowhere near the #2 SRS in NBA history that they currently own without him.

There is a huge difference between playing better and significantly better. Has he had a significantly better year? Yes. Is he playing significantly better than Lebron now? No. Lebrons raw numbers and advanced numbers since returning from injury have been as good as anyone's, same goes for our team.

[nikster]

Is it just me or does this MVP race have weak sauce written all over it? Seems people already made up there mind by January Curry was MVP. His raw numbers are not that impressive to me.

yeah i dont Curry is as far ahead as everyone makes it out to be. Warriors have a surprising record, Curry's exciting to watch, and people love to root for an underdog (the fact that he is small and not particularly athletic) so thats who people are going with.
Honestly, i think Harden should be in front. Hes putting up similar numbers and i think is way more important to the team. The fact that Houston is tied for 3rd with Howard missing so much time is unbelievable. Trevor Ariza is the best player Hardens played with all season
And these players dont have the story lines but are all up there in terms of production: Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Marc Gasol

[LeChosen One]

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close. Curry has the better Orating/Drating, PER, WS/48, VORP, RPM, WAR, TS%, etc etc. Most of those by a significant margin. There's really no strong argument against Curry as is.

Would GS fall off a cliff without Curry? I doubt it. LeBron already has that going for him.

Having garbage teammates — which Lebron doesn't, btw, but whatever — doesn't help you in the MVP race, nor does it make you a better player.

Ummm if two players are having great seasons, but only one is carrying scrubs to a high seed then that person will win the MVP. Not saying LeBron is carrying scrubs like back in the day, this is just an example.

[Dupp]

Literally every single metric suggests Curry is playing "significantly better" than Lebron this year. And the Warriors are SO much better than the Cavs, with or without Lebron, that frankly it defies common sense to think otherwise.

Advanced stats are significantly dependent on how good your team is. The fact the warriors have a much better team heavily influences currys stats like +/-. He is the MVP, no question. But to actually think he's playing significantly better than Lebron, especially since he's come back from injury is just false.
We do also have a decent record with Lebron in the team. Not as good as the warriors but fairly decent. If you think it defies common sense to think curry is playing significantly better than Lebron right now then no one, bar a few have any common sense. Lebron is playing like the best player in the world again.

He is significantly behind in the mvp race we can agree there but in terms of on court performance, no. Harden is also has a decent mvp lead on Lebron as well imo.

You don't know what you're talking about here concerning +/- (assuming you're commenting on RPM). Why do you suppose AD ranks #3 in the NBA in RPM if it is so team dependent? Klay 36th while Curry is 1st? Or James Harden 2nd while D Howard is 127th?

You will often find a correlation between the best advanced stats and the best teams because 1 player can have a massive impact in the NBA in comparison to most team sports, and that will often sway a team to one of the better records if they're built decently.

Appears so. Like i said though curry has had a much better season but not playing significantly better than Lebron atm, who is on a roll. Kinda irrelevant to the thread i guess since it is mvp but still.

[CnG]

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close. Curry has the better Orating/Drating, PER, WS/48, VORP, RPM, WAR, TS%, etc etc. Most of those by a significant margin. There's really no strong argument against Curry as is.

Would GS fall off a cliff without Curry? I doubt it. LeBron already has that going for him.

Fall off a cliff? No, but completely irrelevant. Find me a team that‘s winning 83% of its games that would "fall off a cliff" if you removed one player. Would they be winning at the historic rate and point differential we‘ve only seen a couple of times ever? Nope.

You people are stretching so much trying to justify Lebron being MVP that your main argument is a period of less than 20 games. We completely dismissing the time when he wasn‘t even trying and his team were getting smacked around by teams deliberately trying to lose? Such short memories. The Warriors just went through their worst stretch, playing like absolute trash against NY, Philly etc. and Curry has still gone for 25+ points in the last 8 consecutive games.

Incredible people still trying to wiggle a way for the whole "team mate" argument. You are the same people who put the Warriors 1st in your predictions right? No? What about top 3, with HOF talent like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green finishing in the top 3 had to be a lock right? Mhmm...

What to expect from someone that has their account named after him and more than likely watches basketball and follows the Cavs because of him. Open your mind, broaden your horizons. ‘Ignorance is Bliss‘ has never, and will never, be true.

[Dupp]

"Nonsense" that Curry's playing at a higher level despite all the facts and stats I mentioned that say otherwise? How is he not playing better individually right now, exactly?



Curry has the #1 RPM in the NBA, #1 WS/48 in the NBA and #2 BPM in the NBA (#1 OBPM), that's pretty indicative of a player who is vital to his teams success. For reference, Klay plays alongside him for 80% of his minutes and doesn't rank in the top 30 in RPM. I also watch all their games. Yes, he is massively, massively important. They would be nowhere near the #2 SRS in NBA history that they currently own without him.

There is a huge difference between playing better and significantly better. Has he had a significantly better year? Yes. Is he playing significantly better than Lebron now? No. Lebrons raw numbers and advanced numbers since returning from injury have been as good as anyone's, same goes for our team.

Lebron took weeks off mid-season during their toughest slate to rest his "mind, body and soul" as he says. Clearly a player of his caliber is going to see a jump in production after that when playing against those who are in the grind every night, but even with that break (which is a massive value loss that doesn't show up in the per game stats... seeing as he wasn't even there), he has not reached the cumulative level of Curry, Harden or AD. Regardless, the Cavs are so far below the Warriors in the NBA rankings that his case is just not strong enough to compete at this point. Curry or the Warriors would have to fall off.

I agree with all this, It really wasn't what i was debating. Anyway....

[LeChosen One]

Teams aside, Lebron is not playing at Curry's level, and really it isn't all that close. Curry has the better Orating/Drating, PER, WS/48, VORP, RPM, WAR, TS%, etc etc. Most of those by a significant margin. There's really no strong argument against Curry as is.

Would GS fall off a cliff without Curry? I doubt it. LeBron already has that going for him.

Fall off a cliff? No, but completely irrelevant. Find me a team that‘s winning 83% of its games that would "fall off a cliff" if you removed one player. Would they be winning at the historic rate and point differential we‘ve only seen a couple of times ever? Nope.

You people are stretching so much trying to justify Lebron being MVP that your main argument is a period of less than 20 games. We completely dismissing the time when he wasn‘t even trying and his team were getting smacked around by teams deliberately trying to lose? Such short memories. The Warriors just went through their worst stretch, playing like absolute trash against NY, Philly etc. and Curry has still gone for 25+ points in the last 8 consecutive games.

Incredible people still trying to wiggle a way for the whole "team mate" argument. You are the same people who put the Warriors 1st in your predictions right? No? What about top 3, with HOF talent like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green finishing in the top 3 had to be a lock right? Mhmm...

What to expect from someone that has their account named after him and more than likely watches basketball and follows the Cavs because of him. Open your mind, broaden your horizons. ‘Ignorance is Bliss‘ has, and will never, be true.

I actually have Harden as the MVP right now, with LeBron 3rd. I'm just saying that the Cavs being absolutely garbage when he took his little vacay can be used in his favor if he keeps playing like this and the Cavs finish 2nd, or even first (doubt they will catch Atlanta though).

P.S. I hate Harden more than anyone in the league so I'm not anti-Curry or anything. Also, I've been watching ball since the mid 90's thank you very much.

[rcontador]

Would GS fall off a cliff without Curry? I doubt it. LeBron already has that going for him.

Having garbage teammates — which Lebron doesn't, btw, but whatever — doesn't help you in the MVP race, nor does it make you a better player.

Ummm if two players are having great seasons, but only one is carrying scrubs to a high seed then that person will win the MVP. Not saying LeBron is carrying scrubs like back in the day, this is just an example.

If two guys have the same record but one of them has much worse teammates, then the guy with bad teammates is the better player, pretty much by definition. And the better player should win MVP, that doesn't contradict anything I said.

But that would only be relevant to this thread if the 2015 Cavs were in the same galaxy as the 2015 Warriors in terms of performance. Which they aren't. So what the heck is your point?

[LeChosen One]

Having garbage teammates — which Lebron doesn't, btw, but whatever — doesn't help you in the MVP race, nor does it make you a better player.

Ummm if two players are having great seasons, but only one is carrying scrubs to a high seed then that person will win the MVP. Not saying LeBron is carrying scrubs like back in the day, this is just an example.

If two guys have the same record but one of them has much worse teammates, then the guy with bad teammates is the better player, pretty much by definition. And the better player should win MVP, that doesn't contradict anything I said.

But that would only be relevant to this thread if the 2015 Cavs were in the same galaxy as the 2015 Warriors in terms of performance. Which they aren't. So what the heck is your point?

You said 'having garbage teammates doesn't help you in the MVP race'