Ongoing Nuggets Trade Talk

[The Rebel]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/568414827376463873[/tweet]

Another report that the Nuggets want at least 2 picks for either of Afflalo or Chandler.

[pickaxe]

Meddle meddle meddle but no mettle mettle mettle.

I say trade Hickson and Foye for George Hill and if Shaw can't do **** with Hill, that's proof it ain't workin'.

[MHZ]

What exactly are we working toward?

Competing? Rebuilding? Feels like we have a foot in both camps (one of which being pretty delusional), and the bizarre mix of moves seems to highlight that.

We're afraid to go full fledged Philadelphia. Can't deal Ty Lawson or Kenneth Faried. Can't blow it up, as that may impact, I dunno, jersey sales? Somebody to put on the holiday 10-pack promos? It's not like the stadium is even half full now. We can't attract free agents to rebuild on the fly like a Miami or LA.

We have a coach who knows basketball, but doesn't have an ounce of leadership in him, and the lack of respect from players highlights that. Feuding with Andre Miller and Arron Afflalo? Taking away cell phones on game days? Give me a break. He needs to be an assistant coach. He knows hoops. He knows player development. As an AC, he gets to be the good guy to the players. As a head coach, he has to be a leader of egos and personalities. That's being a head coach, Brian. It's why Phil Jackson is the GOAT, despite having GREAT players. It's that hard. Ask Josh McDaniels how big the jump is from Coordinator to Head Coach if you can't lead.

The stories broke about our front office not knowing what they're doing, and it's hard not to see that with everything they do now. Grow a pair. Have a freaking direction and go after it. They're doing it in Philly, right or wrong. At least if you go down, you go down firing. Why are we half starting over, half trying to appease our head coach? A head coach who seems to have nobody's respect. A head coach who has more excuses and fewer results than he'd allow from his players. Have a plan and execute it. Have a direction and be assertive. The head coach can be on board, or find somebody else. Tim Connelly need a little Billy Beane/Brad Pitt from Moneyball in him.

"I didn't build this team for you, Brian."

[pickaxe]

Thomas Robinson wants a buyout.

[skywalker33]

One of the by-products of the AA trade I foresee, could be fewer wins the rest of the season. I can easily see the Nuggets giving "tryouts"** to Barton, Robinson and Claver (**code for tanking ). Could definitely see us winning less than 5 games the rest of the season. Guess one of the FO strategies to help us get into the lottery.

Am I the only one who could imagine Lawson used as trade bait to move up into the top 3 in this years draft if we don't in the lottery (like that would ever happen ?? )

[RRFB]

I'm pretty satisfied with what happened today. We saved a **** ton money for this year and next by dumping McGee. Including that OKC first isn't ideal, but I understand why they did it. I don't know anything about Claver or Barton but they're expiring contracts that won't derail the tank. We also get to finally see what King Joffrey can do.

And LOL at Robinson requesting a buyout. The guy has been traded three times on his rookie contact. It's not like he's the missing piece for a contender.

[DaFan334]

We gave Robinson his buyout. Not that he was needed here, but might have been nice to see what he has since he was drafted so high, although I doubt it is much. Wish we would have held out for McCollum in the deal but we got what we could from AA at this point in the year and his contract.

As for AAA, I wish him the best of luck and will always be rooting for him to an extent, even on the Blazers. He has always been on of my favorite players to watch and will probably continue to be. Thanks for the good times

[pickaxe]

Ultimately, I am ok with the net result of the salary dump........but instead of buyout why didn't we just say...."Hey....psst, Tom Rob......you want Hickson's role? It's pretty expanded. In fact, all the expansion you need is right here."

Robinson, "Oh? I highly doubt anyone is going to take over Hickson's role. That's not possible!"

[Powder Blue]

Meh..dropped to the bottom in terms of payroll. Hopefully King J gets some good PT.

[The Rebel]

What exactly are we working toward?

Competing? Rebuilding? Feels like we have a foot in both camps (one of which being pretty delusional), and the bizarre mix of moves seems to highlight that.

We're afraid to go full fledged Philadelphia. Can't deal Ty Lawson or Kenneth Faried. Can't blow it up, as that may impact, I dunno, jersey sales? Somebody to put on the holiday 10-pack promos? It's not like the stadium is even half full now. We can't attract free agents to rebuild on the fly like a Miami or LA.

We have a coach who knows basketball, but doesn't have an ounce of leadership in him, and the lack of respect from players highlights that. Feuding with Andre Miller and Arron Afflalo? Taking away cell phones on game days? Give me a break. He needs to be an assistant coach. He knows hoops. He knows player development. As an AC, he gets to be the good guy to the players. As a head coach, he has to be a leader of egos and personalities. That's being a head coach, Brian. It's why Phil Jackson is the GOAT, despite having GREAT players. It's that hard. Ask Josh McDaniels how big the jump is from Coordinator to Head Coach if you can't lead.

The stories broke about our front office not knowing what they're doing, and it's hard not to see that with everything they do now. Grow a pair. Have a freaking direction and go after it. They're doing it in Philly, right or wrong. At least if you go down, you go down firing. Why are we half starting over, half trying to appease our head coach? A head coach who seems to have nobody's respect. A head coach who has more excuses and fewer results than he'd allow from his players. Have a plan and execute it. Have a direction and be assertive. The head coach can be on board, or find somebody else. Tim Connelly need a little Billy Beane/Brad Pitt from Moneyball in him.

"I didn't build this team for you, Brian."

Very well said, over the last couple of days this team has really bugged me, not only that they seem to be trying to half way tank, but that Shaw is still the coach, and nobody around the Nuggets seem to know what they are doing. Why trade Afflalo for 2 picks, only to turn around and trade McGee with a pick?

The only reasonable explanation is that they are going to let Shaw finish the season destroying any chance to compete, than they are planning on getting a good draft pick and maybe overpaying a free agent that they have an eye on. Than hope to compete with a real coach and a reloaded team next year, but that does not sound like a great plan to me.

Overall I am very disappointed, to the point that I could not even bother to watch more than 10 minutes per game. Once Shaw was bringing in the veterans off the bench and the young guys were still watching I decided it was not worth my time last night.

[Mac1958]

.

This is obviously a team that needs to start from scratch, which is why it's strange that Chandler & Lawson are still on the roster. If you're going to tank, at least do THAT right.

Keep Nurkic and flush. Build the OKC way.

.

[The Rebel]

No team needs to tank, and the fact of the matter is this team has talent. Hell they got 2 picks for Afflalo and a marginal prospect, for a guy that has struggled all season. They wanted 2 1st round picks for Chandler and the phone was still ringing until they decided to keep him, and Chandler is basically a decent 3rd or 4th guy. This team is not struggling due to lack of talent, they are struggling due to coaching and the players refusing to buy into that coaching.

If you are going to keep the coach than you may as well blow the thing up as this team is not going to win under Shaw. However the smart thing to do would be to pick a direction, and I still do not think they really have.

[The Rebel]

One last thing I will say though, if Gallo gets back closer to who he was 2 years ago and considering that ACLs usually take about 2 years in the NBA, and Nurkic continues developing, Lawson stays about where he is at, and the Nuggets draft someone like Hezojna, this could be a decent core.

[Powder Blue]

What exactly are we working toward?

Competing? Rebuilding? Feels like we have a foot in both camps (one of which being pretty delusional), and the bizarre mix of moves seems to highlight that.

We're afraid to go full fledged Philadelphia. Can't deal Ty Lawson or Kenneth Faried. Can't blow it up, as that may impact, I dunno, jersey sales? Somebody to put on the holiday 10-pack promos? It's not like the stadium is even half full now. We can't attract free agents to rebuild on the fly like a Miami or LA.

We have a coach who knows basketball, but doesn't have an ounce of leadership in him, and the lack of respect from players highlights that. Feuding with Andre Miller and Arron Afflalo? Taking away cell phones on game days? Give me a break. He needs to be an assistant coach. He knows hoops. He knows player development. As an AC, he gets to be the good guy to the players. As a head coach, he has to be a leader of egos and personalities. That's being a head coach, Brian. It's why Phil Jackson is the GOAT, despite having GREAT players. It's that hard. Ask Josh McDaniels how big the jump is from Coordinator to Head Coach if you can't lead.

The stories broke about our front office not knowing what they're doing, and it's hard not to see that with everything they do now. Grow a pair. Have a freaking direction and go after it. They're doing it in Philly, right or wrong. At least if you go down, you go down firing. Why are we half starting over, half trying to appease our head coach? A head coach who seems to have nobody's respect. A head coach who has more excuses and fewer results than he'd allow from his players. Have a plan and execute it. Have a direction and be assertive. The head coach can be on board, or find somebody else. Tim Connelly need a little Billy Beane/Brad Pitt from Moneyball in him.

"I didn't build this team for you, Brian."

Very well said, over the last couple of days this team has really bugged me, not only that they seem to be trying to half way tank, but that Shaw is still the coach, and nobody around the Nuggets seem to know what they are doing. Why trade Afflalo for 2 picks, only to turn around and trade McGee with a pick?

The only reasonable explanation is that they are going to let Shaw finish the season destroying any chance to compete, than they are planning on getting a good draft pick and maybe overpaying a free agent that they have an eye on. Than hope to compete with a real coach and a reloaded team next year, but that does not sound like a great plan to me.

Overall I am very disappointed, to the point that I could not even bother to watch more than 10 minutes per game. Once Shaw was bringing in the veterans off the bench and the young guys were still watching I decided it was not worth my time last night.

I agree Rebel, I had the game on for a half but I was paying more attention to finishing my taxes.

There's no point watching the Nuggets veterans stink up the court. If Harris, Green, King J and the other new guys got 15 min I could watch that, even if the result is a loss but there's no point watching the same junk they've had on display the last season and a half.

[JerrySloan]

The REBEL said:

No team needs to tank, and the fact of the matter is this team has talent. Hell they got 2 picks for Afflalo and a marginal prospect, for a guy that has struggled all season. They wanted 2 1st round picks for Chandler and the phone was still ringing until they decided to keep him, and Chandler is basically a decent 3rd or 4th guy. This team is not struggling due to lack of talent, they are struggling due to coaching and the players refusing to buy into that coaching.

If you are going to keep the coach than you may as well blow the thing up as this team is not going to win under Shaw. However the smart thing to do would be to pick a direction, and I still do not think they really have.

It is the FO, really meaning Josh Kroenke, who is the biggest problem. It is him alone who won't admit that the Shaw hiring was a mistake.

More importantly, keeping Shaw, even if they had blown it all up, requires Shaw to have some say on the players he would be given. If you can believe him, he wasn't involved in any of the pre-deadline trade process. So he is either a liar or he can't be expected to take all the blame if Joshboy gives him players who don't fit what he wants to do, not to mention the fact that what he seemingly wants is an obsolete, slow it down, grind it out, pre-2014-15 Memphis/Indiana/Chicago team.

[skywalker33]

One last thing I will say though, if Gallo gets back closer to who he was 2 years ago and considering that ACLs usually take about 2 years in the NBA, and Nurkic continues developing, Lawson stays about where he is at, and the Nuggets draft someone like Hezojna, this could be a decent core.

Noticed no mention of Faried, trade-bait ? Not part of the core ?

[The Rebel]

The REBEL said:

No team needs to tank, and the fact of the matter is this team has talent. Hell they got 2 picks for Afflalo and a marginal prospect, for a guy that has struggled all season. They wanted 2 1st round picks for Chandler and the phone was still ringing until they decided to keep him, and Chandler is basically a decent 3rd or 4th guy. This team is not struggling due to lack of talent, they are struggling due to coaching and the players refusing to buy into that coaching.

If you are going to keep the coach than you may as well blow the thing up as this team is not going to win under Shaw. However the smart thing to do would be to pick a direction, and I still do not think they really have.

It is the FO, really meaning Josh Kroenke, who is the biggest problem. It is him alone who won't admit that the Shaw hiring was a mistake.

More importantly, keeping Shaw, even if they had blown it all up, requires Shaw to have some say on the players he would be given. If you can believe him, he wasn't involved in any of the pre-deadline trade process. So he is either a liar or he can't be expected to take all the blame if Joshboy gives him players who don't fit what he wants to do, not to mention the fact that what he seemingly wants is an obsolete, slow it down, grind it out, pre-2014-15 Memphis/Indiana/Chicago team.

I personally do not care what Shaw wants, he should have been fired months ago, and I have never cared what he wanted to run. A good coach uses a system that fits his talent, even Greg Popovich changed his system about 5 years ago, and he is arguably a top 5 NBA coach of all time. The only coach that never changed their system is Phil Jackson, and if you watched what he has done in his career he never took over a team unless they had close to the right pieces for his system.

Truth is if Shaw had plans to run a slow it down ground it out style then he never should have been hired. This team has not had the players for that type of system since the early 80s, and I doubt they ever will. Using that system takes away the biggest strength of being in Denver, and that is the altitude. Using that system also means that your players need to be more talented than the opposition at one on one play, shooting, and interior post play, in other words it has to play the exact opposite way than the team was designed.

One last thing I will say though, if Gallo gets back closer to who he was 2 years ago and considering that ACLs usually take about 2 years in the NBA, and Nurkic continues developing, Lawson stays about where he is at, and the Nuggets draft someone like Hezojna, this could be a decent core.

Noticed no mention of Faried, trade-bait ? Not part of the core ?

I have never been a huge fan of Faried, although I still say he is very underrated on Realgm, he is not the type that is ever going to be a dominant force on both ends. However if you notice in my list I do not list any PF, as I feel that Faried would be that PF, and with the fit he seems to have with the rest of that roster he would be just fine as the hustle 4 that is capable of taking over a game once in a great while.

[pickaxe]

The REBEL said:

No team needs to tank, and the fact of the matter is this team has talent. Hell they got 2 picks for Afflalo and a marginal prospect, for a guy that has struggled all season. They wanted 2 1st round picks for Chandler and the phone was still ringing until they decided to keep him, and Chandler is basically a decent 3rd or 4th guy. This team is not struggling due to lack of talent, they are struggling due to coaching and the players refusing to buy into that coaching.

If you are going to keep the coach than you may as well blow the thing up as this team is not going to win under Shaw. However the smart thing to do would be to pick a direction, and I still do not think they really have.

It is the FO, really meaning Josh Kroenke, who is the biggest problem. It is him alone who won't admit that the Shaw hiring was a mistake.

More importantly, keeping Shaw, even if they had blown it all up, requires Shaw to have some say on the players he would be given. If you can believe him, he wasn't involved in any of the pre-deadline trade process. So he is either a liar or he can't be expected to take all the blame if Joshboy gives him players who don't fit what he wants to do, not to mention the fact that what he seemingly wants is an obsolete, slow it down, grind it out, pre-2014-15 Memphis/Indiana/Chicago team.

I personally do not care what Shaw wants, he should have been fired months ago, and I have never cared what he wanted to run. A good coach uses a system that fits his talent, even Greg Popovich changed his system about 5 years ago, and he is arguably a top 5 NBA coach of all time. The only coach that never changed their system is Phil Jackson, and if you watched what he has done in his career he never took over a team unless they had close to the right pieces for his system.

Truth is if Shaw had plans to run a slow it down ground it out style then he never should have been hired. This team has not had the players for that type of system since the early 80s, and I doubt they ever will. Using that system takes away the biggest strength of being in Denver, and that is the altitude. Using that system also means that your players need to be more talented than the opposition at one on one play, shooting, and interior post play, in other words it has to play the exact opposite way than the team was designed.

Ultimately the most important point is nothing is matching up. System #1 is abandoned, yet we run some weird hybrid that's not a hybrid more like a quitbrid. System #2 is needed mainly for when we encounter teams able to slow us down and take away our strength. Whatever permutation of the team ends up deep in the playoffs will need to be prepared to defend any style the opponent brings or at least slow it down enough to let our advantage take over enough to win a series.

First round exits are being used as "proof" up tempo doesn't work if the opponent slows you down.

I don't see this organization has made any progress in mastering defense, nor do we know if these players that should have mastered defense by now will even be here on our "playoff team" .....

We're spending so much time trying to slow down our offense when it is learning and focusing on how to play an opponent who has slowed down our offense and prevent them from doing so. Shaw apparently is our opponent and he is doing it from the coach's chair.