Worst trade deadline: Poll

[HartfordWhalers]

Building off the winners and losers thread, I wanted to see a poll on naming the fully worst trade deadline, and tried to include everyone. Which this was tough.

Unfortunately you are limited to 10 poll options, so I had to cut 4 teams.
On the best trade deadline I went: Knicks, Nets, and Twolves seemed easy calls as smaller deals to cut. For the last one, I had to pick Houston or Boston. Houston seemed to make the more sense to cut, and yet I went ahead and cut Boston. I guess I didn't think it could really be the *best* trade deadline.

Here I'm going to switch out Houston, and add in Brooklyn. Probably should have done Boston, but with how much teh Nets were in the rumors compared to what they got done, I decided to go with them.

So, who had the worst trade deadline?

[IamaCeltsfan]

I would also say teams like Chicago and Atlanta who sat around and did nothing had bad trade deadlines.

[loserX]

Gut response is Phoenix...though I wasn´t crazy about Philly´s either. At least Phoenix made the best of a bad situation with Dragic (do we dock points for their contributory role in getting to that situation? that could affect their grade), so they did okay in at least one of their trades. Just shockingly bad in one of the others.

Philly made three trades and I only liked one of them valuewise as well. So both teams batted .333 for me (to mix a sports metaphor!) but Philly´s win was a lot better than Phoenix´s win. And in the end Philly came out ahead of where they started and Phoenix didn´t, so going with the Suns after all.

[HartfordWhalers]

Gut response is Phoenix...though I wasn´t crazy about Philly´s either. At least Phoenix made the best of a bad situation with Dragic (do we dock points for their contributory role in getting to that situation? that could affect their grade), so they did okay in at least one of their trades. Just shockingly bad in one of the others.

Philly made three trades and I only liked one of them valuewise as well. So both teams batted .333 for me (to mix a sports metaphor!) but Philly´s win was a lot better than Phoenix´s win. And in the end Philly came out ahead of where they started and Phoenix didn´t, so going with the Suns after all.

I disliked the McDaniels deal, but liked both of the others. Which other deal did you dislike and why?

[Texas Chuck]

yeah agree that Philly didn't do great value-wise, but at least they have a clear plan and are sticking to it. Even if they didn't get enough value for McGee, they didn't just let the chance pass by. Taking less is better than doing nothing unless they miss out on something better in the summer. I don't see them as a big loser here. I'd have them as a winner overall.

Suns is the worst for me. Dragic is better than Knight imo and Knight seems to make no sense with Bledsoe anyway. Then they also turned Ennis, Plumlee, and the Lakers pick into 3 picks with less overall value. Just bad value, seemingly no direction, and then their GM comes out and makes a bunch of really dumb comments trying to justify it that makes things worse. Now this team still has no star, traded their best player, and got rid of their best single asset towards building a package for a star. Their upside is now to be a .500 team in a conference where that gets you nowhere. Too many decent players, no potential for improvement. Awful.

Denver gets good value for AA then flushes some of it on McGee. And doesn't look to move other players. Better than the Suns but again no star, no assets to pursue a star, and still have a bunch of decent players on medium contracts. Needed to clean house and didn't.

[jbk1234]

Philly and Phoenix both get incomplete grades from me. If that Lakers pick ends up being a good lottery pick, then Philly's grade goes up and the Suns' grade goes down. If the Lakers are able to put a decent team on the floor next year, that trade looks a lot different. If Dragic signs a max deal this summer, his trade looks a lot different.

For me it was Brooklyn. They needed to move one of those big three contracts and they didn't.

I don't like OKC's trades nearly as much as the rest of the board and conventional wisdom.

[loserX]

Gut response is Phoenix...though I wasn´t crazy about Philly´s either. At least Phoenix made the best of a bad situation with Dragic (do we dock points for their contributory role in getting to that situation? that could affect their grade), so they did okay in at least one of their trades. Just shockingly bad in one of the others.

Philly made three trades and I only liked one of them valuewise as well. So both teams batted .333 for me (to mix a sports metaphor!) but Philly´s win was a lot better than Phoenix´s win. And in the end Philly came out ahead of where they started and Phoenix didn´t, so going with the Suns after all.

I disliked the McDaniels deal, but liked both of the others. Which other deal did you dislike and why?

Didn´t like the McGee deal. I suppose I´m used to a couple of years back, where the going rate was ¨dumping one year of big bad salary costs you a pick¨ (Detroit dumping Ben Gordon, for instance). So the exchange rate in my head was ¨two'year bad deal plus one pick = bad expirings, bad expirings plus one pick = capspace¨ So Philly ends up an asset short.

Maybe my exchange rate is out of date? Maybe other people don´t hate McGee´s contract as much as I do? Either is entirely possible.
I know Philly gets financial benefit out of getting close to the cap floor so late in the season, but I still think they had the leverage to demand more than they did.

[Texas Chuck]

Maybe my exchange rate is out of date? Maybe other people don´t hate McGee´s contract as much as I do? Either is entirely possible.
I know Philly gets financial benefit out of getting close to the cap floor so late in the season, but I still think they had the leverage to demand more than they did.

I wonder if they worried about Ainge using the Rondo TPE and undercutting them if they got greedy? I think Boston wants to try and get better next year, but they could certainly spend another year gathering assets before trying to repeat teh summer of 07.

But yeah other than Boston there were any other options to dump the whole deal and I think they didn't get enough value. I just think making the deal was still better than not making the deal. If that makes sense.

[DanTown8587]

The reason I voted Brooklyn over say Phoenix was Phoenix had a no win situation: Dragic was leaving and killed trade value by saying he'd only go to teams with cap space (even said no to Houston) so the Suns did all they could to erase that situation. I think this proved I was right about signing Thomas (even if they got a first for it) because I always that he was going to push Dragic out of Phoenix and low and behold, he did.

Brooklyn to me had to change the direction of their team and they simply didn't do it. They watched Miami and Detroit get better so now they have to fight to stay in they playoffs with a below average roster. I get the KG deal but Presti using Brooklyn as leverage killed their trade chances AND made Detroit better (who ended with Reggie Jackson).

[HartfordWhalers]

Gut response is Phoenix...though I wasn´t crazy about Philly´s either. At least Phoenix made the best of a bad situation with Dragic (do we dock points for their contributory role in getting to that situation? that could affect their grade), so they did okay in at least one of their trades. Just shockingly bad in one of the others.

Philly made three trades and I only liked one of them valuewise as well. So both teams batted .333 for me (to mix a sports metaphor!) but Philly´s win was a lot better than Phoenix´s win. And in the end Philly came out ahead of where they started and Phoenix didn´t, so going with the Suns after all.

I disliked the McDaniels deal, but liked both of the others. Which other deal did you dislike and why?

Didn´t like the McGee deal. I suppose I´m used to a couple of years back, where the going rate was ¨dumping one year of big bad salary costs you a pick¨ (Detroit dumping Ben Gordon, for instance). So the exchange rate in my head was ¨two'year bad deal plus one pick = bad expirings, bad expirings plus one pick = capspace¨ So Philly ends up an asset short.

Maybe my exchange rate is out of date? Maybe other people don´t hate McGee´s contract as much as I do? Either is entirely possible.
I know Philly gets financial benefit out of getting close to the cap floor so late in the season, but I still think they had the leverage to demand more than they did.

Ben Gordon:
Traded 2012 June. Salary picked up:
$12,400,000 - $10,924,138 Magette = ~2.5m
$13,200,000
Total = 15.7m

Javale McGee:
$11,250,000
$12,000,000
Total = 23,250,000 cap room

In dollars however:
~ $4,250,000 prorated
$12,000,000
Total = 16,250,000

And assuming Coon is right, it actually worked out to:
~7m cash savings (4.25m salary for a 11.25 obligation removal)
$12,000,000
Total = 5m


The first method makes it not look good, but I don't think is a great way of looking at it as the cost wasn't all that (maybe the opportunity cost is.) The second makes it look perfectly fine to me. The third is only there because of other choices and unfairly takes advantage of Philly not using those opportunity costs, but it makes it look really good imo.

Probably the best way is:
Javale McGee:
$11,250,000 cap room but equivalent to gaining 7m real $
$12,000,000
Total = 23,250,000 cap room for 7m cash payments and the 1st.

[HartfordWhalers]

I voted OKC. I really just hate their moves, and think adding Kanter won't work sort or long term, and that the team is falling behind and had the most to lose. I disliked it financially, talent and I am not sold on fit, even with how toxic RJ situation supposedly was.

Phx and Denver had parts I didn't like, but also parts I did.

[bondom34]

To me either Philly or Phoenix. Phoenix just confused me, Philly got awful value for McDaniels and I'm not nuts over the McGee deal only b/c I don't see him as a guy who's gonna even help the locker room. I get traded for a bad contract, but it feels better if its a quality vet. I kinda like the MCW deal unless something weird happens w/ the LA pick, which seems unlikely.

[Mamba4Goat]

Can anyone clarify what exactly was all involved in the OKC-Det-Utah trade? Anywho it may be Utah or it may be Phx or Toronto, Toronto failed to take advantage of a wide open East and use useless expirings and a late first to get a useful player to help their rotation. Phx just screwed up, pretty badly. Dragic trade was okay, those picks may or may not be good. (Which also makes a questionable deadline for Miami) but then they traded Isiah Thomas for a player who has the same skills as Thomas but is going to seek a max, and doubling the salary of that, then they also attached Plumlee, Ennis, and the LAL pick which should be nice.

Lastly, to pick a team that hadn't been mentioned, the Heatles. Wades old and unable to stay healthy, Bosh is starting to have questionable health and Dragic will be a free agent who may still walk. They traded two future picks with minimal protection. Riley is an amazingly competent GM, but still, this is kinda silly, even at 100% Miami would have to play their tails off to stay in a series with Cleveland, Chicago, and Atlanta.

[bondom34]

Can anyone clarify what exactly was all involved in the OKC-Det-Utah trade? Anywho it may be Utah or it may be Phx or Toronto, Toronto failed to take advantage of a wide open East and use useless expirings and a late first to get a useful player to help their rotation. Phx just screwed up, pretty badly. Dragic trade was okay, those picks may or may not be good. (Which also makes a questionable deadline for Miami) but then they traded Isiah Thomas for a player who has the same skills as Thomas but is going to seek a max, and doubling the salary of that, then they also attached Plumlee, Ennis, and the LAL pick which should be nice.

Lastly, to pick a team that hadn't been mentioned, the Heatles. Wades old and unable to stay healthy, Bosh is starting to have questionable health and Dragic will be a free agent who may still walk. They traded two future picks with minimal protection. Riley is an amazingly competent GM, but still, this is kinda silly, even at 100% Miami would have to play their tails off to stay in a series with Cleveland, Chicago, and Atlanta.

OKC gave RJ/Perk/Jerrett/2017 first (lotto protected for like 5 yrs)/2nd/Tibor Pleiss (euro big)
Got Kanter/Augustin/Singler/Novak/2nd (from Detroit I think?)

Detroit gave Augustin/Singler/2nd
for RJ

Utah gave Kanter/Novak
Got Perk (buyout)/1st and 2nd via OKC/Pleiss

Think that's it.

[Mamba4Goat]

...

OKC gave RJ/Perk/Jerrett/2017 first (lotto protected for like 5 yrs)/2nd/Tibor Pleiss (euro big)
Got Kanter/Augustin/Singler/Novak/2nd (from Detroit I think?)

Detroit gave Augustin/Singler/2nd
for RJ

Utah gave Kanter/Novak
Got Perk (buyout)/1st and 2nd via OKC/Pleiss

Think that's it.

Okay, its not too bad for anyone then, overall great trade actually. Man, OKC is going all in now. Traded 2 firsts, and Pleiss who I've heard nice things about to compete now. Good job on Presti's part.

[DocRI]

I'm sorry you keep getting dumped on, Suns fans! But even though you did fine with Dragic considering you were painted into a corner, trading that Lakers' pick was just inexcusable.

[Amish Mafioso]

If I'm a heat fan, I'm extremely concerned that they just burned 2 firsts on what could be a rental. If Dragic bolts, Miami is the biggest loser. Phoenix seems to lack direction, but I have to give them credit for the value they got out of Dragic, instead of rolling the dice on trying to re-sign him. Denver giving up a first to dump McGee is the kind of move that would really irk me as a fan. Brooklyn, Denver and Phoenix are all candidates for biggest loser, but it still depends on how things work out with the pieces moved.

[franktony]

PHX

Giving up that Lakers pick for what they got was absolutely moronic.

[JasonStern]

Phoenix traded both the best player and the most valuable pick. I'm not sure how any other team could top that.

[theatlfan]

Ben Gordon:
Traded 2012 June. Salary picked up:
$12,400,000 - $10,924,138 Magette = ~2.5m
$13,200,000
Total = 15.7m

Javale McGee:
$11,250,000
$12,000,000
Total = 23,250,000 cap room

In dollars however:
~ $4,250,000 prorated
$12,000,000
Total = 16,250,000

And assuming Coon is right, it actually worked out to:
~7m cash savings (4.25m salary for a 11.25 obligation removal)
$12,000,000
Total = 5m


The first method makes it not look good, but I don't think is a great way of looking at it as the cost wasn't all that (maybe the opportunity cost is.) The second makes it look perfectly fine to me. The third is only there because of other choices and unfairly takes advantage of Philly not using those opportunity costs, but it makes it look really good imo.

Probably the best way is:
Javale McGee:
$11,250,000 cap room but equivalent to gaining 7m real $
$12,000,000
Total = 23,250,000 cap room for 7m cash payments and the 1st.

another consideration is that PHI was below the floor and spending the $$ anyway so all $$'s due this season is sunk anyway. In PHI's view, the got a 1st for $12M of next year's cap space which is actually better than CHAR got for eating Gordon...