The Lebron Thread (2014-15 Pt. 2)

_Game7_ · Post #1881 » by **_Game7_** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:56 pm

PrincessDupp wrote:
Brenice wrote:
I was hard on LeBron after what happened in the Dallas series but gave LeBron credit against OKC in 2012.

In 2013, LeBron's play early in the series would have cost the Heat if not for Ray Allen. He got lucky.

In 2014, LeBron and the Heat were in over their heads. Not his fault.

I actually agree with this. People like to paint Lebron as great in the 2013 series against the spurs but he wasn't great until the 4th quarter of game 6. His inability to hit open jump shots almost cost them a title. He did step up however and ray ray hit the GOAT shot.

His ability to hit open shots is what won Miami the title. Game 7 happened.

HeartBreakKid · Post #1882 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:59 pm

Brenice wrote:
PrincessDupp wrote:
I actually agree with this. People like to paint Lebron as great in the 2013 series against the spurs but he wasn't great until the 4th quarter of game 6. His inability to hit open jump shots almost cost them a title. He did step up however and ray ray hit the GOAT shot.

I penalized him more for him letting the Spurs dictate how he played, not for his inability to hit open shots. I felt he should have played aggressively, going to the rim hard, instead of hesitating. That's old school basketball. Go to the rim. That's what makes him a GOAT candidate, not jumpers, not passes. In the 4th of game 6, he started going hard to the rim. He scored or got fouled. He gained confidence and then he started hitting jumpers too.

LeBron plays like that, going hard to the rim as his first option, its over. Defenses, like the Spurs showed, want him to be reluctant, passive, and SETTLE for jumpers. He should be determined, aggressive, and GO HARD to the rim.

How was he going to get into the rim, the Spurs were packing the paint pretty hard. The Spurs had a great defensive game plan, no way James was getting to the rim. He had a high caliber defender in Kawhi on him man to man, Tony stunting his drives, Duncan and Splitter playing off their mans and camping the paint.

Dupp · Post #1883 » by **Dupp** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:16 pm

I think people forget how he was defended in 2013 compared to 2014. Kawhi was no where near him, same with every other defender. He had little chance of getting to the rim but he was so wide open to shoot. (Same goes with wade but this is about lebron). He just shot so so terribly that it nearly undid all his good work.
He wasn't terrible but he wasn't great because his jumper was so broken.
In the end he prevailed and pop completely changed how he was defended a year later.

Brenice · Post #1884 » by **Brenice** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:53 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
How was he going to get into the rim, the Spurs were packing the paint pretty hard. The Spurs had a great defensive game plan, no way James was getting to the rim. He had a high caliber defender in Kawhi on him man to man, Tony stunting his drives, Duncan and Splitter playing off their mans and camping the paint.

The same way he got to the rim the 4th quarter of game 6 and in game 7, by being aggressive, dictating, not being passive and letting the defense dictate to him. He posted, he attacked off the dribble, just being aggressive.

RSCD3_ · Post #1885 » by **RSCD3_** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:01 am

Brenice wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
How was he going to get into the rim, the Spurs were packing the paint pretty hard. The Spurs had a great defensive game plan, no way James was getting to the rim. He had a high caliber defender in Kawhi on him man to man, Tony stunting his drives, Duncan and Splitter playing off their mans and camping the paint.

The same way he got to the rim the 4th quarter of game 6 and in game 7, by being aggressive, dictating, not being passive and letting the defense dictate to him. He posted, he attacked off the dribble, just being aggressive.

It's important to remember that LeBron made that comeback with wade on the bench and when he was off it allowed him to drive easier. Of course he was going 110% for that 7ish minutes stretch, so that helped him but since him and wade shared a lot of time, the lanes were more closed in the previous games.

I feel like someone should do a breakdown post of LeBron's offense in that quarter and how he scored because I don't think the spurs changed their scheme but LeBron did get to the rim a lot...

Hmmm...

VideoGameJames · Post #1886 » by **VideoGameJames** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:02 am

PrincessDupp wrote:I think people forget how he was defended in 2013 compared to 2014. Kawhi was no where near him, same with every other defender. He had little chance of getting to the rim but he was so wide open to shoot. (Same goes with wade but this is about lebron). He just shot so so terribly that it nearly undid all his good work.
He wasn't terrible but he wasn't great because his jumper was so broken.
In the end he prevailed and pop completely changed how he was defended a year later.

I agree, it completely disrupted Miami's drive n dish offense when they packed the paint and Lebron and Wade just weren't used to making mid-range jumpers to set up the rest of their offense. I think it shook Lebron up a bit that Pop would play him exactly like the 22 year old version of him, giving his jumper zero respect. He played great defense throughout the series, but if you looked at the series uptil game 5, he had a pretty mediocre series, especially by his standards (~22-23 PPG on low 40s FG%). If not for his legendary game 6 4th quarter they would've lost the series (almost still did) and it would've been a slightly better version of his 2011 collapse. Game 7 was obviously GOAT level performance.

IMO 2014 Finals is the best finals hes played offensively, Wade & Co. fell of a cliff and I cant remember how many times he bailed out the offense with contested jumpers on really high-efficiency. Despite Miami being horrendous that series (especially on defense) they still could've been up 2-0 going back home if Lebron doesnt cramp game 1(I know what if). Had that happened I dont think the Spurs role players wouldve played outta their minds in games 3-5 like they did (IIRC shot above 50% on contested jumpers), then who knows what way the series couldve went. I know its a HUUUUGE what-if, but they really weren't thaaaat over matched until Spurs shooters got hot, especially Kawhi in game 3 (who was stanking it up in the series at that point) when Spo put Chalmers on him.

TL;DR: Lebron 2013 finals mediocre before game 6-7. 2014 finals performance better than what its remembered as.

J Shuttlesworth · Post #1887 » by **J Shuttlesworth** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:56 am

Love's numbers the last 4 games:

If he can put these numbers up consistently, Cavs can go very far

RSCD3_ · Post #1888 » by **RSCD3_** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:30 am

J Shuttlesworth wrote:Love's numbers the last 4 games:

If he can put these numbers up consistently, Cavs can go very far

Minutes are low as well

PER 36 that's 21.5/12.0/3.5 with .6 Turnovers all while shooting lights out

J Shuttlesworth · Post #1889 » by **J Shuttlesworth** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:46 am

RSCD3_ wrote:
J Shuttlesworth wrote:Love's numbers the last 4 games:

If he can put these numbers up consistently, Cavs can go very far

Minutes are low as well

PER 36 that's 21.5/12.0/3.5 with .6 Turnovers all while shooting lights out

His TS% has been 64.6% over that stretch too.

I always like to compare him to Bosh in Miami. Love's putting up about 17/10, which is what the Heat wish Bosh could have put up. Bosh was always quite weak on the rebounding for Miami, and Love doesn't have that problem. Love has looked more engaged and his passing is finally being utilized a bit. More low post/elbow touches lately, and hell... even his defensive effort is looking quite good.

SideshowBob · Post #1890 » by **SideshowBob** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:06 am

Only caught flashes of the game today, so quick remarks

-Lebron has looked really athletic in these last two games. Crazy explosion off the dribble and his acceleration and change of direction look exceptional.

-Fighting for and getting better post positioning, this is key because it demonstrates that he's still got the strength to bang around down low if he needs to and it leads to higher percentage baskets -> more pressure on defense

-I've seen very few mistakes defensively these last two games, he's hitting the defensive glass a bit harder and as I've been saying all year, the weight loss helps his lateral game/floor coverage IMO, as well as his motor. We've already discussed his better awareness/focus; he's been making solid reads on the PnR

-Kinda looked like he checked out after Cleveland blew the game open early, but NY did a strong job hounding him with ball denial and shutting down his driving space from the sideline. Most of the time he created from the top he just ended up jacking up a three. Thought he should've gotten a few calls at the basket in the 3rd, but its relatively unimportant in a game like this.

-This broke a streak of 11 straight road games of 25 points or more. He's leading the league in road scoring again at 28.9 per game. He did this before from 08-12 as well, but has never really touched that 09 and 10 peak.

-Unfortunately 4 turnovers again, including that hilarious shove on Calderon. Surprised more wasn't made of that. The others honestly just looked like they were easy reads for the defense. Hopefully Friday night is a better sign of what's to come.

-Minutes are staying low. Down to 36.2 MPG on the season and 34.1 since his return (18 G). Really hope that pays off in the postseason.

J Shuttlesworth · Post #1891 » by **J Shuttlesworth** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:41 am

Some more Love numbers:

Since LeBron's return, him and Love have been the #1 and #2 in the league in plus/minus: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/? ... 02/22/2015

In the month of February, Love has the highest Plus Minus in the league, with Mozgov/Irving/James at #4, 5 and 6:
http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/? ... ls&Month=5

Since LeBron's return and with a minimum of 20 minutes per game, Kevin Love has the highest NetRtg in the league with Mozgov and LeBron trailing him. http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/a ... TING&dir=1

Man this Cavs team can really be something special. I still don't think they've hit their peak yet either

SideshowBob · Post #1892 » by **SideshowBob** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:36 am

Since Lebron's return, controlling for Love/Irving (16 G), Cleveland is at a 11.1 SRS, +10.2 Offense (117.2 ORTG), -2.0 Defense. Lebron's on-court +/- numbers have been 2013 win-streak-esque. Cleveland offense with him on the floor is in the vicinity of 122, and defense is around 100.

JulesWinnfield · Post #1893 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:58 pm

Love is indeed playing a lot better of late and finding his way, which is just going to be huge for this team. Despite all the talk around the league making it seem at times a forgone conclusion that he bolts, he at least *talks* a good game about staying. You really can't be any more definitive and forceful than he has been publicly about his desire to commit long term to this team. I know sometimes you just say what you have to say to avoid a storyline, but he has not wavered. His body language at times has told the story of a frustrated player who has seemed disconnected at points, I can't deny that. But he remains forceful about the fact that he wishes to remain in cleveland.....

And why would he leave? Let's face it.... Best chance to win..... They can offer the most money too. If he were to bolt and essentially take less while simultaneously downgrading his basketball situation to boot, solely so he can get 4-5 more shots a night... That would be an all time sucka move. You gotta be the biggest stat whore who has ever lived if that's your driving motivation with so much on the other side to motivate someone to stay. Especially someone who has not even sniffed the playoffs yet and now has a virtual guarantee of perennial contention in hand, with an important role to boot even if diminished.

I guess time will tell. There's a lot of people out there who think him leaving is the lock of all locks. Broussard says he hasn't spoken to an exec who thinks he stays. I don't know that yet

crazy_me_87 · Post #1894 » by **crazy_me_87** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:58 pm

JulesWinnfield wrote:Love is indeed playing a lot better of late and finding his way, which is just going to be huge for this team. Despite all the talk around the league making it seem at times a forgone conclusion that he bolts, he at least *talks* a good game about staying. You really can't be any more definitive and forceful than he has been publicly about his desire to commit long term to this team. I know sometimes you just say what you have to say to avoid a storyline, but he has not wavered. His body language at times has told the story of a frustrated player who has seemed disconnected at points, I can't deny that. But he remains forceful about the fact that he wishes to remain in cleveland.....

And why would he leave? Let's face it.... Best chance to win..... They can offer the most money too. If he were to bolt and essentially take less while simultaneously downgrading his basketball situation to boot, solely so he can get 4-5 more shots a night... That would be an all time sucka move. You gotta be the biggest stat whore who has ever lived if that's your driving motivation with so much on the other side to motivate someone to stay. Especially someone who has not even sniffed the playoffs yet and now has a virtual guarantee of perennial contention in hand, with an important role to boot even if diminished.

I guess time will tell. There's a lot of people out there who think him leaving is the lock of all locks. Broussard says he hasn't spoken to an exec who thinks he stays. I don't know that yet

Well maybe They are just getting it wrong. maybe he has told people he would love to play in LA or NYK SOMEDAY .. the same time he says hes committed to winning rings in Cleveland. Some sensationalist reporters would say that he contradicts himself.

Why? He just turned 26 and has a Game that will age pretty well. He can sign a 5 year deal in 2016 with Cleveland win Rings in Cle and then go to LA at 32 right when they propably are way more ahead in their reboulding process.

One thing doesnt make the other impossible.

JulesWinnfield · Post #1895 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:13 pm

crazy_me_87 wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:Love is indeed playing a lot better of late and finding his way, which is just going to be huge for this team. Despite all the talk around the league making it seem at times a forgone conclusion that he bolts, he at least *talks* a good game about staying. You really can't be any more definitive and forceful than he has been publicly about his desire to commit long term to this team. I know sometimes you just say what you have to say to avoid a storyline, but he has not wavered. His body language at times has told the story of a frustrated player who has seemed disconnected at points, I can't deny that. But he remains forceful about the fact that he wishes to remain in cleveland.....

And why would he leave? Let's face it.... Best chance to win..... They can offer the most money too. If he were to bolt and essentially take less while simultaneously downgrading his basketball situation to boot, solely so he can get 4-5 more shots a night... That would be an all time sucka move. You gotta be the biggest stat whore who has ever lived if that's your driving motivation with so much on the other side to motivate someone to stay. Especially someone who has not even sniffed the playoffs yet and now has a virtual guarantee of perennial contention in hand, with an important role to boot even if diminished.

I guess time will tell. There's a lot of people out there who think him leaving is the lock of all locks. Broussard says he hasn't spoken to an exec who thinks he stays. I don't know that yet

Well maybe They are just getting it wrong. maybe he has told people he would love to play in LA or NYK SOMEDAY .. the same time he says hes committed to winning rings in Cleveland. Some sensationalist reporters would say that he contradicts himself.

Why? He just turned 26 and has a Game that will age pretty well. He can sign a 5 year deal in 2016 with Cleveland win Rings in Cle and then go to LA at 32 right when they propably are way more ahead in their reboulding process.

One thing doesnt make the other impossible.

I was speaking strictly about this upcoming free agency cycle. 4 to 5 years is an eternity in sports, anything can happen if we are talking about where he is going to be down the line. The odds are probably against kevin love finishing his career as a cav, if not for any other reason than a guy staying in one spot for a decade is relatively rare. Though of course I guess that could happen

But speaking about this summer, while I'd say his body language has at times left something to be desired, I find it tough to believe he is as gone as many seem to think. I just don't get that vibe from him, and it just makes more sense to stay all things considered

As an aside, ever since they re-did this site around Christmas, I am almost never getting a notification when quoted.

JLei · Post #1896 » by **JLei** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:24 pm

Hopefully Curry can play Thursday. Would be nice to see how the Cavs stack up in a potential finals matchup.

Also just selfishly as a Lebron fan. Lebron can't win the MVP if Curry ducks him on Thursday.

Lebron basically has to win both Thursday and Sunday (while looking like the best player on the floor) while Curry and Harden are on the court to shift the minds of the media. He's got no shot otherwise due to games missed. If Curry can't play on Thursday Lebron basically can't win the MVP unless they the Cavs go nuts on this tough schedule.

RSCD3_ · Post #1897 » by **RSCD3_** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:17 pm

Lebron's son is stealing Kevin love's moves

http://www.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2015-02-23/lebron-james-jr-lbj-son-john-lucas-all-star-weekend-tournament-10-year-old-cavaliers?eadid=SOC%2FFB%2FSNMain

Colbinii · Post #1898 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:58 am

Top 3 man Line-ups in the NBA since LeBron's return from injury.

Dupp · Post #1899 » by **Dupp** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:15 am

RSCD3_ wrote:
Brenice wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
How was he going to get into the rim, the Spurs were packing the paint pretty hard. The Spurs had a great defensive game plan, no way James was getting to the rim. He had a high caliber defender in Kawhi on him man to man, Tony stunting his drives, Duncan and Splitter playing off their mans and camping the paint.

The same way he got to the rim the 4th quarter of game 6 and in game 7, by being aggressive, dictating, not being passive and letting the defense dictate to him. He posted, he attacked off the dribble, just being aggressive.

It's important to remember that LeBron made that comeback with wade on the bench and when he was off it allowed him to drive easier. Of course he was going 110% for that 7ish minutes stretch, so that helped him but since him and wade shared a lot of time, the lanes were more closed in the previous games.

I feel like someone should do a breakdown post of LeBron's offense in that quarter and how he scored because I don't think the spurs changed their scheme but LeBron did get to the rim a lot...

Hmmm...

Actually that's a good point. I forgot about that aspect. From memory they played a lot better with wade off and they had spacing but with both lebron and wade on they really packed the paint hard.
I remember thinking what are you doing bringing wade back on because it almost cost them game 6.

SideshowBob · Post #1900 » by **SideshowBob** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:31 am

Wade was playing injured in the 2013 postseason if I remember correctly (even missed a game). His relentless off-ball cutting/curling action during the regular season was a HUGE part of Miami's offensive explosion (they were running a +10 offense from mid-January onwards), and it provided spacing despite his lack of a 3pt shot. After Lebron's improvements in that offseason, Wade's role was probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest factor in driving that offense (collective team 3pt shooting would be the other) The Lebron/Battier/Wade unit was nuclear, they were a net +30 in that stretch and that included an ORTG of 134.4.

Wade playing injured hampered his ability to play that role in the playoffs, and with teams focusing their entire defensive gameplan to prevent Lebron from getting into the lane (with the exception of Indiana, who were comfortable straight manning him up), Miami's spacing was **** up throughout that run, particularly when Lebron/Wade shared the court (unsurprisingly, Lebron's late run in game 6 vs. SAS came when Wade was on the bench and Lebron was surrounded with shooters; Wade's man could no longer cheat off him to help shade/clog the lane, and James was able to parade to the rim).

Check out Lebron's numbers from the Milwaukee and Chicago series, they're relatively underwhelming as well, because they played him the same way. This isn't necessarily bad, because for the most part James was able to take advantage of Miami's plethora of shooters and avoid taking the jumpshots himself. However, quite obviously, San Antonio was best equipped to employ this strategy while not yielding too much on the shooters (particularly when Wade was on the court as well), and thus Lebron not taking those outside shots became a problem (at least until he did started taking them in game 4/7) and furthermore, were also comfortably the best offensive team Miami ran into, which amplified the problem and lengthened the series.