NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3

TGW · Post #221 » by **TGW** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:34 pm

Former players are rarely good commentators. They are good personalities, but they usually don't know jack **** about the NBA, which is weird. Steve Kerr and Bill Walton are the exception...

Induveca · Post #222 » by **Induveca** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:31 pm

In some defense of Barkley, he makes a good point on defense. Even advanced stats guys readily admit tracking defense is still in its infancy.

Based upon that, Barkley did make a valid point saying advanced stats are still mostly about offense. He could have said it better, and Morey could have not been a complete ass via Twitter.

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp ... %20NBA.pdf

FAH1223 · Post #223 » by **FAH1223** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:52 pm

Ruzious wrote:
queridiculo wrote:From time to time it's fun to watch those fogies on TNT, but I wouldn't mind if they axed Barkley and Shaquille, or at the very least replaced Shaq with somebody like Chris Webber.

I thought CWeb had great tv potential until I saw him do a game 2 years ago. He kept insisting that OJ Mayo was a special player. Taint.

CWebb loves the Wizards and gives them a lot of love.

Induveca · Post #224 » by **Induveca** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:50 pm

They've won how many Emmy awards, 8 or 9? Barkley has even won 3 individually for random reporting. He has a job on TNT for life if he chooses.

Post #225 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:34 pm

I enjoy Barkley's shtick, and have found him (and Kenny -- moreso Kenny) to provide useful insights. But, good lord Barkley sounds like a fool. If he "...always thought analytics were crap," he's ignorant of what analytics are, and it's difficult to take much of what he says on the subject seriously.

His assertion that Houston is the worst defensive team, or the worst of the likely playoff teams is wrong. Period. And Barkley's suggestion that they're "the worst" because they gave up 118 in a single game is stupid. When a team is generally good at something and has a bad game, it's called an aberration -- an outlier.

Kenny makes a good point about analytics changing as a team improves (or gets worse). Ideally, though, analytics are a TOOL to measure what a team is doing and then HELP it improve. The Wizards, for example, would benefit by decreasing their reliance on two-point jumpshots.

Barkley asks: What analytics did the Miami Heat have? This is hilarious. They've been driven by analytics since Pat Riley arrived. They track all kinds of stuff, including things like deflections, times on the floor after a loose ball, successful box outs on defensive rebounds, hands above rim, and many more. That tracking was turned into an index, which turned into a benchmark. Above X score, they win 80% of the time. Below Y score, they lose more than half the time.

Now Barkely is correct when he points out that the Heat, Spurs and Bulls have the best players. But, what makes them the best players is quantifiable through analytics. And while it's usually pretty easy to tell who the best players are, there are subtle differences between the rank and file players that add up into important differences. And, even telling the "best" players can be a challenge -- witness the number of people who think Carmelo Anthony is (and has been) one of the best players in the league.

But hey, he worked in the entirely irrelevant "never played the game" and "couldn't get girls in high school" "arguments". And, oh yeah, the tried and true I've always had this position and will never change line of reasoning, so at least we know where he's coming from. I guess.

Though, maybe he should try to some analytics on his gambling habits. He might stop losing so much money.

His assertion that these teams using analytics "never win" is factually incorrect. I assume he's ignorant of what teams are (and have been) actually doing. Dallas has an extensive analytics department and won their title after hiring Roland Beech full-time and making him an assistant coach. Roland created 82games.com (among other things). Despite Popovich's "I just go by my gut" act, that's an analytics organization to its core -- and has been since Popovich arrived. I already talked about the Heat -- and what I discussed is in addition to the other kinds of analytics they do, including the sort of stuff I do, and computerized simulations designed to model what might happen if they make a roster or lineup change.

Going back through recent champions, the Lakers are the only team where I don't know whether they have an analytics department or not. The Pistons did under Larry Brown. Jerry Krause used statistical analysis to build around Jordan and Pippen. Now, plenty of teams use analytics and don't win a title, but there can be only one per year. The same argument could be made about the "just stare at players" guys.

FAH1223 · Post #226 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:01 am

Westbrook has 21/17/8, with 8/12 shooting, right now in 27 minutes.

guy is unreal.

jangles86 · Post #227 » by **jangles86** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:12 am

Curry
Harden
Westbrook
James
Durant

They are the worlds 5 best players by a fair margin.

OKC should have 3 of them.

FAH1223 · Post #228 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:20 am

Indiana beats the Warriors but Curry sat out. Klay had 39

Wiz gonna get torched by them

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #229 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:43 am

FAH1223 wrote:Westbrook has 21/17/8, with 8/12 shooting, right now in 27 minutes.

guy is unreal.

Might be better than KD. Never thought I would say so.

Westbrook is a legit MVP candidate.

FAH1223 · Post #230 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:51 pm

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w4vOEnBXQk[/youtube]

MKG gets saved by the offensive foul on Jefferson :lol:

queridiculo · Post #231 » by **queridiculo** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:50 am

In all fairness, if Jefferson doesn't clear out the defender with his off arm, he doesn't complete the play.

closg00 · Post #232 » by **closg00** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:09 am

Noel vs Whiteside tonight
http://www.nba.com/games/20150223/PHIMI ... tml?ls=slt

FAH1223 · Post #233 » by **FAH1223** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:16 am

Pelicans making a huge comeback against the Raptors

Spreading the floor and letting Tyreke and Norris Cole have a lot of room to operate.

closg00 · Post #234 » by **closg00** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:20 am

FAH1223 wrote:Pelicans making a huge comeback against the Raptors

Spreading the floor and letting Tyreke and Norris Cole have a lot of room to operate.

Luke Babbitt on-fire tonight

Kanyewest · Post #235 » by **Kanyewest** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:27 am

No Jrue Holiday, Anthony Davis, or Ryan Anderson- talk about a let down game.

FAH1223 · Post #236 » by **FAH1223** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:29 am

closg00 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:Pelicans making a huge comeback against the Raptors

Spreading the floor and letting Tyreke and Norris Cole have a lot of room to operate.

Luke Babbitt on-fire tonight

Yup.

Valunciunas was benched down the stretch too.

AFM · Post #237 » by **AFM** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:03 am

I'm on mobile so not posting a link
But James Harden is fukkin nasty. He just destroyed Rubio, broke his ankles so hard, Rubio was on all 4s like a BDSM enthusiast, then he popped a wet ass three in his grill

FAH1223 · Post #238 » by **FAH1223** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:44 am

The Grizzlies are amazing defensively.

I'm starting to think they will come out of the West.

Dave Joerger FTW.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #239 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:03 am

FAH1223 wrote:The Grizzlies are amazing defensively.

I'm starting to think they will come out of the West.

Dave Joerger FTW.

I predicted years ago Joerger will coach a team to an NBA title.

Doclinkin threw his name out there years back. I looked at his coaching resume and concluded he's the best ever, potentially.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #240 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:10 am

FAH1223 wrote:Pelicans making a huge comeback against the Raptors

Spreading the floor and letting Tyreke and Norris Cole have a lot of room to operate.

The trades have really impacted the NBA. Seeing guys like Cole with a new team is tremendous and exciting to watch.

At Cleveland State, Cole posted a quadruple double IIRC. I know he played football at some point. QB, I think. Cole and either Cedric Jenkins or Shelvin Mack were in the same conference. I liked Cole a lot. But years later, kind of like with Ramon Sessions, I think his NBA roles may have been limiting his growth as a player.

It's FUN to see Cole no longer a Heat role player.