The Derrick Rose Thread- (Chess not Checkers)

red222 · Post #1 » by **red222** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:58 am

continue the discussion here

musiqsoulchild · Post #2 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:47 am

Nicely done.

So, I started the chess analogy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZDcaYsBN_4

^^^ Very under-rated movie. Moral of the story: If you cant be measured, your opponent doesnt know what to plan for.

If Derrick is intentionally playing at two different levels, its genius stuff.

bullboy18 · Post #3 » by **bullboy18** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:02 am

Cant wait for Rose to win finals MVP this year so everyone who rips on him, both bulls fans and non bulls fans, will finally shut up about him.

Bulls fans in august: This is a recovery year, I expect him to struggle and be inconsistant. 2016 is when MVP rose should be back. Expecting that sooner would be unrealistic

Those same Bulls fans a few months into the season up to now: Trade rose. He is holding the team back. I give up on him, he will never be MVP again. He is a before avg player.

Gonna be fun watching rose chit on everyone. Just like Snell is doing now, like Thibs will do when we win the title and a ton of people want him fired because he doesnt do what fans on a forum want him to do.

musiqsoulchild · Post #4 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:04 am

bullboy18 wrote:Cant wait for Rose to win finals MVP this year so everyone who rips on him, both bulls fans and non bulls fans, will finally shut up about him.

Bulls fans in august: This is a recovery year, I expect him to struggle and be inconsistant. 2016 is when MVP rose should be back. Expecting that sooner would be unrealistic

Those same Bulls fans a few months into the season up to now: Trade rose. He is holding the team back. I give up on him, he will never be MVP again. He is a before avg player.

Gonna be fun watching rose chit on everyone. Just like Snell is doing now, like Thibs will do when we win the title and a ton of people want him fired because he doesnt do what fans on a forum want him to do.

See the bolded....very few people said that.

You basically need to show that is true for the rest of your post to be valid.

AirP. · Post #5 » by **AirP.** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:17 am

Anyone have a clue what the record for the most missed 3s in a year by a sub 30% 3pt shooter is? George McCloud missed 162 3s while shooting 27%, Derrick after tonight has missed 179 3s and is shooting just under 29% from the arc.

BullsInBuffalo · Post #6 » by **BullsInBuffalo** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:24 am

musiqsoulchild wrote:
bullboy18 wrote:Cant wait for Rose to win finals MVP this year so everyone who rips on him, both bulls fans and non bulls fans, will finally shut up about him.

Bulls fans in august: This is a recovery year, I expect him to struggle and be inconsistant. 2016 is when MVP rose should be back. Expecting that sooner would be unrealistic

Those same Bulls fans a few months into the season up to now: Trade rose. He is holding the team back. I give up on him, he will never be MVP again. He is a before avg player.

Gonna be fun watching rose chit on everyone. Just like Snell is doing now, like Thibs will do when we win the title and a ton of people want him fired because he doesnt do what fans on a forum want him to do.

See the bolded....very few people said that.

You basically need to show that is true for the rest of your post to be valid.

Many people said that.

Derrick needs to find consistency in his shot. Thats the biggest thing holding him back from being great right now. He has been great at times, now it just needs to become the norm.

musiqsoulchild · Post #7 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:26 am

BullsInBuffalo wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
bullboy18 wrote:Cant wait for Rose to win finals MVP this year so everyone who rips on him, both bulls fans and non bulls fans, will finally shut up about him.

Bulls fans in august: This is a recovery year, I expect him to struggle and be inconsistant. 2016 is when MVP rose should be back. Expecting that sooner would be unrealistic

Those same Bulls fans a few months into the season up to now: Trade rose. He is holding the team back. I give up on him, he will never be MVP again. He is a before avg player.

Gonna be fun watching rose chit on everyone. Just like Snell is doing now, like Thibs will do when we win the title and a ton of people want him fired because he doesnt do what fans on a forum want him to do.

See the bolded....very few people said that.

You basically need to show that is true for the rest of your post to be valid.

Many people said that.

Derrick needs to find consistency in his shot. Thats the biggest thing holding him back from being great right now. He has been great at times, now it just needs to become the norm.

A smallish minority.

He just said " Bulls Fans". Thats a classic argument technique....take what a small but vocal minority say and ascribe that to the entire population.

bullboy18 · Post #8 » by **bullboy18** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:29 am

musiqsoulchild wrote:
bullboy18 wrote:Cant wait for Rose to win finals MVP this year so everyone who rips on him, both bulls fans and non bulls fans, will finally shut up about him.

Bulls fans in august: This is a recovery year, I expect him to struggle and be inconsistant. 2016 is when MVP rose should be back. Expecting that sooner would be unrealistic

Those same Bulls fans a few months into the season up to now: Trade rose. He is holding the team back. I give up on him, he will never be MVP again. He is a before avg player.

Gonna be fun watching rose chit on everyone. Just like Snell is doing now, like Thibs will do when we win the title and a ton of people want him fired because he doesnt do what fans on a forum want him to do.

See the bolded....very few people said that.

You basically need to show that is true for the rest of your post to be valid.

You can go back and look for yourself. But ill help you out a little bit first, though I put no weight into someone saying my post isnt valid because because they dont agree.

Mech Engineer wrote:I agree it is tough to say even in Feb/March if the old Derrick is back. Regular season/inferior opponents will make you feel he is back. With a focussed/elite opponent, he will not have that extra second of daylight to go to the basket/shoot or make a pass. We know the old Derrick had that athleticism but we will not know this until the playoffs, IMO.

I think in one of Derrick's plays yesterday, his defender was Harden(I might be wrong). Those are the wrong indicators. The one thing we can be sure, he is probably one of the top athletes in the NBA plus smarter than what he was in his MVP year. Is that enough is the question?

Rerisen wrote:Like I said, he could have all the potential to make it back all the way, but like Chris Paul, still take a whole year before he gets there.

bullboy18 · Post #9 » by **bullboy18** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:31 am

musiqsoulchild wrote:A smallish minority.

He just said " Bulls Fans". Thats a classic argument technique....take what a small but vocal minority say and ascribe that to the entire population.

My bad, I dont know the exact percentage of people who said that ha. But yes a lot of people said to be patient and that it could take until 2016 for MVP rose to truly be back and consistent.

musiqsoulchild · Post #10 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:33 am

bullboy18 wrote:
musiqsoulchild wrote:
bullboy18 wrote:Cant wait for Rose to win finals MVP this year so everyone who rips on him, both bulls fans and non bulls fans, will finally shut up about him.

Bulls fans in august: This is a recovery year, I expect him to struggle and be inconsistant. 2016 is when MVP rose should be back. Expecting that sooner would be unrealistic

Those same Bulls fans a few months into the season up to now: Trade rose. He is holding the team back. I give up on him, he will never be MVP again. He is a before avg player.

Gonna be fun watching rose chit on everyone. Just like Snell is doing now, like Thibs will do when we win the title and a ton of people want him fired because he doesnt do what fans on a forum want him to do.

See the bolded....very few people said that.

You basically need to show that is true for the rest of your post to be valid.

You can go back and look for yourself. But ill help you out a little bit first, though I put no weight into someone saying my post isnt valid because because they dont agree.

Mech Engineer wrote:I agree it is tough to say even in Feb/March if the old Derrick is back. Regular season/inferior opponents will make you feel he is back. With a focussed/elite opponent, he will not have that extra second of daylight to go to the basket/shoot or make a pass. We know the old Derrick had that athleticism but we will not know this until the playoffs, IMO.

I think in one of Derrick's plays yesterday, his defender was Harden(I might be wrong). Those are the wrong indicators. The one thing we can be sure, he is probably one of the top athletes in the NBA plus smarter than what he was in his MVP year. Is that enough is the question?

Rerisen wrote:Like I said, he could have all the potential to make it back all the way, but like Chris Paul, still take a whole year before he gets there.

In August 2014, a significant majority of the Bulls fans (lets alone the entire fanbase here) were NOT saying "I expect him to struggle and be inconsistent. We are going to give Derrick until 2016"

The heartburn wouldnt be there if that was the case.

Also, I should re-phrase. I wasnt saying your post was not valid...I meant to say "the argument you are making is not valid unless you can prove that all Bulls fans felt that about Derrick".

BullsInBuffalo · Post #11 » by **BullsInBuffalo** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:39 am

Im not putting a year on Drose back to MVP status because I don't this he ever will be a top 3 MVP type player again. He doesn't have to be anymore. No more Boozer/Bogans/Brewer lineup. Look at the future..

PG-Rose
SG- Jimmy
SF-Snell, McDermott
PF- Mirotic/Gibson
C- Noah/Gibson

This is already 7 players that will be bulls for the next 5 years (Which is why MDJ&Pau weren't included) that can play at a high level. This doesn't include any players we pick up through draft or free agency.

Im pretty sure GarPax can pick up 2-3 more guys that can contribute in the next 5 years...

Now look at Rose's MVP season... his numbers were insane. They would never get that high even if he was playing at that level with this lineup.

At this same time, this helps Derrick stay away from injuries and helps his longevity. There is no reason this core can't win a ship'.
Its possible this year, especially with Pau playing at such a high level, but the D has to improve.

Bulls basketball and its future look good. Thats for sure.

logical_art · Post #12 » by **logical_art** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:44 am

No one expects him to be 2011 Rose this year, but the number of games he just hasn't shown up both results wise AND effort wise has been alarming.

Post #13 » by **fleet** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:51 am

musiqsoulchild wrote::nod: Nicely done.

So, I started the chess analogy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZDcaYsBN_4

^^^ Very under-rated movie. Moral of the story: If you cant be measured, your opponent doesnt know what to plan for.

If Derrick is intentionally playing at two different levels, its genius stuff.

BullsInBuffalo · Post #14 » by **BullsInBuffalo** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:52 am

logical_art wrote:No one expects him to be 2011 Rose this year, but the number of games he just hasn't shown up both results wise AND effort wise has been alarming.

is he not trying? what do you mean?

kodo · Post #15 » by **kodo** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:03 am

bullboy18 wrote:Cant wait for Rose to win finals MVP this year so everyone who rips on him, both bulls fans and non bulls fans, will finally shut up about him.

If the Bulls win the championship, it won't be because of Rose. Butler & Gasol have both been playing well all year, and Rose is a distant 3rd.

red222 · Post #16 » by **red222** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:05 am

kodo wrote:
bullboy18 wrote:Cant wait for Rose to win finals MVP this year so everyone who rips on him, both bulls fans and non bulls fans, will finally shut up about him.

If the Bulls win the championship, it won't be because of Rose. Butler & Gasol have both been playing well all year, and Rose is a distant 3rd.

this makes no sense

BullsInBuffalo · Post #17 » by **BullsInBuffalo** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:09 am

kodo wrote:
bullboy18 wrote:Cant wait for Rose to win finals MVP this year so everyone who rips on him, both bulls fans and non bulls fans, will finally shut up about him.

If the Bulls win the championship, it won't be because of Rose. Butler & Gasol have both been playing well all year, and Rose is a distant 3rd.

Bulls chances to win a ship' without Rose = 0.0%

If the Bulls win it all, Rose will be a big part of it if not the biggest part.

logical_art · Post #18 » by **logical_art** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:20 am

BullsInBuffalo wrote:
logical_art wrote:No one expects him to be 2011 Rose this year, but the number of games he just hasn't shown up both results wise AND effort wise has been alarming.

is he not trying? what do you mean?

Yup. You see games where he puts in very little effort including to get over screens or to penetrate.

McBulls · Post #19 » by **McBulls** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:05 am

I posted two years ago at this time of year that the Bulls best move would be to trade Rose for whatever they could get in return.

That's still my opinion, in spite of the one or two all-star level games he's played in this month.

The problem is mental, not physical. Rose is getting bad advice from his entourage, and is following it. He seems to be incapable of adapting his game to team needs. Currently, the team does NOT need him as a #1 option. He clearly does not realize that fact.

When he physically starts to decline in the next year or two, his play will fall off a cliff. And take the Bullls, Thibs and the FO with him.

logical_art · Post #20 » by **logical_art** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:12 am

McBulls wrote:I posted two years ago at this time of year that the Bulls best move would be to trade Rose for whatever they could get in return.

That's still my opinion, in spite of the one or two all-star level games he's played in this month.

The problem is mental, not physical. Rose is getting bad advice from his entourage, and is following it. He seems to be incapable of adapting his game to team needs. Currently, the team does NOT need him as a #1 option. He clearly does not realize that fact.

When he physically starts to decline in the next year or two, his play will fall off a cliff. And take the Bullls, Thibs and the FO with him.

Why would Rose decline at 27 or 28?