J. Hill Contract question

[LApwnd]

With the team option on his contract, are we able to do any trades with him still after the season? Like a team that wants to dump salary and will take Hill on so they don't pick up his option. When is the deadline to decide on Hills option?

[dockingsched]

His option will have to be picked up before he can be traded. That's where a non guaranteed contract is superior to one with an option.

[LApwnd]

His option will have to be picked up before he can be traded. That's where a non guaranteed contract is superior to one with an option.

I understand, so this makes not trading hill kinda of even more dump IMO. I thought the purpose of signing him to this absurd type of overvalue deal was to make him a trade asset. I guess plan now is to not pick up his option and redo his deal longer for less per year?

[dockingsched]

His option will have to be picked up before he can be traded. That's where a non guaranteed contract is superior to one with an option.

I understand, so this makes not trading hill kinda of even more dump IMO. I thought the purpose of signing him to this absurd type of overvalue deal was to make him a trade asset. I guess plan now is to not pick up his option and redo his deal longer for less per year?

Well at the time of the contract he gained a no trade clause and any team trading for him would not get his bird rights so i think anyone believing that he was signed primarily to create a trade asset is a bit off target.

Going forward if he's to be a trade asset, Lakers can pick up his option and trade him as an expiring deal without the restrictions of a no trade clause and this time with his bird rights transferring. Other option is to decline his option and facilitate a sign n trade.

[Pointgod]

Lakers just need to let Hill walk and use the capspace to sign a more productive player or players. There's literally no point picking up his option. Two years in a row they've tried to trade him and got nothing. Teams don't want an oft injured big man that's going to walk at the end of the season for 8 million dollars. Picking up his option in the hope that he could be traded is the definition of insanity.

[ALL HAIL]

Lakers just need to let Hill walk and use the capspace to sign a more productive player or players. There's literally no point picking up his option. Two years in a row they've tried to trade him and got nothing. Teams don't want an oft injured big man that's going to walk at the end of the season for 8 million dollars. Picking up his option in the hope that he could be traded is the definition of insanity.

You don't let him go unless you have a replacement (not named Sacre).

[dipstick]

The reason we re-signed him to this contract is that it was a reasonable contract, and there was no other big available other than maybe Monroe. It gave us the chance to get a good contract that we could keep or even trade away for 2 years if he played well, but retain flexibility if he didn't. At the trade deadline, teams were not interested because he was at a low for the season and it would mean they would have to guarantee the 2nd year of that contract.

The FO pretty much knows if we want him long term. If so, we sign him for less for longer, otherwise, we just let him walk.

[Vae Victus]

It was not a reasonable contract due to the no trade clause and him losing his bird rights in the event of being traded. Essentially it gave him all the power and leverage to either goto a team of his choosing (likely a **** team where he can jack shots) OR get his option picked up to be overpaid for another year (which those **** teams in no way in hell would EVER pay him). In other words, there wasnt a chance in hell of the Lakers trading Hill unless he blew the hell up and teams would be clamoring to pay him big money.

I mean why would Hill leave to goto a "competitive" team that "needs" him if it'll cut into his PT, touches, and god forbid actually force him to play in a system or try to control his wild off court behavior. On the Lakers he's like the primary option (much to our detriment) and does whatever he wants with absolutely no one to rein him in since.... him playing the way he is, is helping the tank soooo very much.

Hill is gone and his soft ass long jumper no defense ass is gonna need alot of luck to make 3-4 mil on his next contract since all that PT we force fed him in HOPES of increasing his trade value has instead destroyed it. Now teams see him as injury prone, selfish, lazy, and a completely putrid defensive player. Ironic in a way, if we had just made him play the way D'Antoni did where all he did was sit underneath the basket waiting for dishes and O boards he woulda had a pretty similar to last year season and MAYBE someone woulda been suckered to take him.

[Mamba Venom]

We should have dumped Hill for a 2nd at the deadline because he is too good. Then resigned him during FA. We may lose our top 5 pick. He nailed that clutch shot. 3 game winning streak.

[Pointgod]

It was not a reasonable contract due to the no trade clause and him losing his bird rights in the event of being traded. Essentially it gave him all the power and leverage to either goto a team of his choosing (likely a **** team where he can jack shots) OR get his option picked up to be overpaid for another year (which those **** teams in no way in hell would EVER pay him). In other words, there wasnt a chance in hell of the Lakers trading Hill unless he blew the hell up and teams would be clamoring to pay him big money.

I mean why would Hill leave to goto a "competitive" team that "needs" him if it'll cut into his PT, touches, and god forbid actually force him to play in a system or try to control his wild off court behavior. On the Lakers he's like the primary option (much to our detriment) and does whatever he wants with absolutely no one to rein him in since.... him playing the way he is, is helping the tank soooo very much.

Hill is gone and his soft ass long jumper no defense ass is gonna need alot of luck to make 3-4 mil on his next contract since all that PT we force fed him in HOPES of increasing his trade value has instead destroyed it. Now teams see him as injury prone, selfish, lazy, and a completely putrid defensive player. Ironic in a way, if we had just made him play the way D'Antoni did where all he did was sit underneath the basket waiting for dishes and O boards he woulda had a pretty similar to last year season and MAYBE someone woulda been suckered to take him.

It's amazing how management handled the Jordan Hill contract. It runs complete counter to logic. Just think about it from the Lakers perspective, would they trade a 1st round pick for Jordan Hill @ 9million dollars? Jordan Hill is a solid player at 3-4 million but 9 million and a first round pick? The contract the Lakers gave him makes no sense unless they thought he's blow up into a 15,10 and 2 big man. Even then he's injury prone so I don't know what they were thinking. I'm completely against using cap space to resign your own players unless they're in your long term plans. Hill, Boozer and Young take up 16 million in cap space. There's no way you can't tell me that couldn't have been put to better use.

[ALL HAIL]

How long after Hill's option is picked up can the Lakers use him in a trade?

[dipstick]

It was not a reasonable contract due to the no trade clause and him losing his bird rights in the event of being traded. Essentially it gave him all the power and leverage to either goto a team of his choosing (likely a **** team where he can jack shots) OR get his option picked up to be overpaid for another year (which those **** teams in no way in hell would EVER pay him). In other words, there wasnt a chance in hell of the Lakers trading Hill unless he blew the hell up and teams would be clamoring to pay him big money.

I mean why would Hill leave to goto a "competitive" team that "needs" him if it'll cut into his PT, touches, and god forbid actually force him to play in a system or try to control his wild off court behavior. On the Lakers he's like the primary option (much to our detriment) and does whatever he wants with absolutely no one to rein him in since.... him playing the way he is, is helping the tank soooo very much.

Hill is gone and his soft ass long jumper no defense ass is gonna need alot of luck to make 3-4 mil on his next contract since all that PT we force fed him in HOPES of increasing his trade value has instead destroyed it. Now teams see him as injury prone, selfish, lazy, and a completely putrid defensive player. Ironic in a way, if we had just made him play the way D'Antoni did where all he did was sit underneath the basket waiting for dishes and O boards he woulda had a pretty similar to last year season and MAYBE someone woulda been suckered to take him.

It's amazing how management handled the Jordan Hill contract. It runs complete counter to logic. Just think about it from the Lakers perspective, would they trade a 1st round pick for Jordan Hill @ 9million dollars? Jordan Hill is a solid player at 3-4 million but 9 million and a first round pick? The contract the Lakers gave him makes no sense unless they thought he's blow up into a 15,10 and 2 big man. Even then he's injury prone so I don't know what they were thinking. I'm completely against using cap space to resign your own players unless they're in your long term plans. Hill, Boozer and Young take up 16 million in cap space. There's no way you can't tell me that couldn't have been put to better use.

Because at the time Melo and Lebron made up their minds, there was no one else to give contracts to. That's why we accepted Lin for a first rounder and we had to overpay Hill to keep him. There was really no loss unless you wanted us to overpay for Monroe or Bledsoe at that point because they were the only players still available at that point that may have been worth something. I think we were hoping Bledsoe would take the QO. At least Monroe did, so we have a chance if we want him without trying to overpay. In that sense, there really was no harm except that we couldn't accept a bigger contract in a trade during the season. Although I doubt that we would have done anything even if we had the cap space. Maybe it was just to avoid paying the tax for being too far below the salary cap?

[Vae Victus]

Would rather have done another deal similar to Lin using that cap space, take on an expiring contract and getting picks for the hassle of freeing up some other team's cap space, and if we get a potentiaily useful young player (like Lin) then even better. Anyway the timing was basically Pau wanting to get out of town despite us offering more money in 2 years 20 mil so instead we give 2 years 18 mil (2nd year TO) to Hill hoping he'd improve upon his play and become either a trade asset or something to build upon in year 2. Instead he turned into a lazy, chuck happy, selfish, party animal who is in no way shape or form worth his contract. The harm done was us force feeding him undeserved minutes in hopes of increasing his trade value, instead it basically backfires since all the playing time did was reinforce bad habits and brutally expose his weaknesses for all to see thus destroying whatever little trade value he had. Seriously, if we could just dump him somewhere for a bag of balls dont you think the FO woulda done that, save a few bucks, reality was NO ONE wants the scrub.

However he's an excellent tank commander and as long as he's our #1-2 option we gonna lose lots of games!

[Pointgod]

It was not a reasonable contract due to the no trade clause and him losing his bird rights in the event of being traded. Essentially it gave him all the power and leverage to either goto a team of his choosing (likely a **** team where he can jack shots) OR get his option picked up to be overpaid for another year (which those **** teams in no way in hell would EVER pay him). In other words, there wasnt a chance in hell of the Lakers trading Hill unless he blew the hell up and teams would be clamoring to pay him big money.

I mean why would Hill leave to goto a "competitive" team that "needs" him if it'll cut into his PT, touches, and god forbid actually force him to play in a system or try to control his wild off court behavior. On the Lakers he's like the primary option (much to our detriment) and does whatever he wants with absolutely no one to rein him in since.... him playing the way he is, is helping the tank soooo very much.

Hill is gone and his soft ass long jumper no defense ass is gonna need alot of luck to make 3-4 mil on his next contract since all that PT we force fed him in HOPES of increasing his trade value has instead destroyed it. Now teams see him as injury prone, selfish, lazy, and a completely putrid defensive player. Ironic in a way, if we had just made him play the way D'Antoni did where all he did was sit underneath the basket waiting for dishes and O boards he woulda had a pretty similar to last year season and MAYBE someone woulda been suckered to take him.

It's amazing how management handled the Jordan Hill contract. It runs complete counter to logic. Just think about it from the Lakers perspective, would they trade a 1st round pick for Jordan Hill @ 9million dollars? Jordan Hill is a solid player at 3-4 million but 9 million and a first round pick? The contract the Lakers gave him makes no sense unless they thought he's blow up into a 15,10 and 2 big man. Even then he's injury prone so I don't know what they were thinking. I'm completely against using cap space to resign your own players unless they're in your long term plans. Hill, Boozer and Young take up 16 million in cap space. There's no way you can't tell me that couldn't have been put to better use.

Because at the time Melo and Lebron made up their minds, there was no one else to give contracts to. That's why we accepted Lin for a first rounder and we had to overpay Hill to keep him. There was really no loss unless you wanted us to overpay for Monroe or Bledsoe at that point because they were the only players still available at that point that may have been worth something. I think we were hoping Bledsoe would take the QO. At least Monroe did, so we have a chance if we want him without trying to overpay. In that sense, there really was no harm except that we couldn't accept a bigger contract in a trade during the season. Although I doubt that we would have done anything even if we had the cap space. Maybe it was just to avoid paying the tax for being too far below the salary cap?

Think about what you just said. Why would we want to keep Hill. You just admitted that he was overpaid. He received major minutes on a lottery team. We overpaid Hill in the hopes of trading him, but what teams are going to trade for an injury prone, over paid average big man? There were still players to give contracts to: Monroe, Bledsoe, Lance(I don't care what anyone says he has a much higher upside than Hill). Yes you have to pay for Monroe or Bledsoe, that's what happens when you chase a restricted free agent, but the point is that they have the potential to out perform their pay. With the cap going up paying either one of them 14-15 million a season isn't overpaying. Even if they didn't sign any free agents they could have made more deals like they did with Lin picking up assets in the process. Ed Davis was a brilliant signing, they should have given him a 2 year contract. More signings like that make sense, but wasting your cap space on bloated one year deals or long term deals like Nick Young is idiotic because there's no added benefit. Under the new CBA expiring contracts aren't valuable, but cap space is gold.

[dockingsched]

Your issue isn't really with Hill's contract, your issue is that the front office didn't want to pursue the players you thought they should have. Hill's contract had no relevance to going after lance or Bledsoe, the team simply didn't want to offer them multi years deals and preferred to keep their cap for the next summer.

[crazyeights]

Raise your hand if you're looking forward to this off-season simply to never again have to hear complaints of missing out on Lance, IT, and Bledsoe?

IT is a locker room cancer.
Lance can't shoot for ****.
Bledsoe is a nice player (still not a great 1st option) but Phoenix would have matched thus he is moot.

[Hector_Reyes_8]

How is Thomas a locker room cancer....

[dipstick]

It's amazing how management handled the Jordan Hill contract. It runs complete counter to logic. Just think about it from the Lakers perspective, would they trade a 1st round pick for Jordan Hill @ 9million dollars? Jordan Hill is a solid player at 3-4 million but 9 million and a first round pick? The contract the Lakers gave him makes no sense unless they thought he's blow up into a 15,10 and 2 big man. Even then he's injury prone so I don't know what they were thinking. I'm completely against using cap space to resign your own players unless they're in your long term plans. Hill, Boozer and Young take up 16 million in cap space. There's no way you can't tell me that couldn't have been put to better use.

Because at the time Melo and Lebron made up their minds, there was no one else to give contracts to. That's why we accepted Lin for a first rounder and we had to overpay Hill to keep him. There was really no loss unless you wanted us to overpay for Monroe or Bledsoe at that point because they were the only players still available at that point that may have been worth something. I think we were hoping Bledsoe would take the QO. At least Monroe did, so we have a chance if we want him without trying to overpay. In that sense, there really was no harm except that we couldn't accept a bigger contract in a trade during the season. Although I doubt that we would have done anything even if we had the cap space. Maybe it was just to avoid paying the tax for being too far below the salary cap?

Think about what you just said. Why would we want to keep Hill. You just admitted that he was overpaid. He received major minutes on a lottery team. We overpaid Hill in the hopes of trading him, but what teams are going to trade for an injury prone, over paid average big man? There were still players to give contracts to: Monroe, Bledsoe, Lance(I don't care what anyone says he has a much higher upside than Hill). Yes you have to pay for Monroe or Bledsoe, that's what happens when you chase a restricted free agent, but the point is that they have the potential to out perform their pay. With the cap going up paying either one of them 14-15 million a season isn't overpaying. Even if they didn't sign any free agents they could have made more deals like they did with Lin picking up assets in the process. Ed Davis was a brilliant signing, they should have given him a 2 year contract. More signings like that make sense, but wasting your cap space on bloated one year deals or long term deals like Nick Young is idiotic because there's no added benefit. Under the new CBA expiring contracts aren't valuable, but cap space is gold.

You may be misunderstanding what I was saying. After this year's play, I don't want to keep him and we shouldn't even think about offering anything near what we offered. But I believe he was playing much better last year. Hustling more doing more of the dirty stuff that we want big men to do. Did we overpay Jordan Hill? We may have. But he wasn't worth just 3-4 mil. He probably could have gotten multi-year offers starting at 6-8m per year. The lakers wanted to experiment with him back but at a risk free 1 year deal. It doesnt seem to be paying off so at least we didn't get stuck with him.

Would I have wanted to overpay to get Bledsoe and Monroe? Within reason, yes. To be honest, I would have probably joined you in defending any overpay for those guys, but its a judgement call and I also to a certain extent understand their judgement. Because of that, I'm not losing sleep over us not being able to get either.

However, if they continue to drag their feet this summer and have a repeat of the 2014 offseason, I think a big part of the fan base (including me) will grow steadily impatient.