Official Free Agent Thread: What to do with our cap space

[jcsunsfan]

Tim Donaghy even said straight up that the Suns are the real 2007 champions

Link?

It was on Facebook a few years ago and I think he said it somewhere else too, maybe a radio show. I can't find a link but I promise it happened.

I am not really doubting you, I believe it. But I am not going to repeat it myself unless I can document it.

[Frank Lee]

I don't think that's true. Maybe the older veterans are more likely to stay away from Phoenix, but I think the young guys in the NBA just want to get paid and they don't care where it's from. Most likely we wouldn't attract any big name free agents, but Phoenix has given guys a 2nd chance at a career. Guys like PJ Tucker, Channing Frye, and now Gerald Green. I'd even say Miles Plumlee will definitely get a pay raise soon from his 1.2mil contract.
I think a guy like Greg Monroe would come here without hesitation if we offered him the most money.

Yep. Eric Gordon was a good FA at the time, and he said publicly he wanted to come here. That was just a few years ago. OJ Mayo was a semi big FA name, and if we would have offered him a starting job, he would have signed here. In the end, Goran signed here, even after we had traded him away for Brooks and we even threw in a pick. And he turned into an All Nba player while here. I think players know that many players have rejuvenated their games playing in PHX. We still have the best med staff in the league, and money is money. How often does a player deal with Sarver personally?

Problem is, with the expanded cap, we wont be able to offer anymore $$ than anyone else. We do have good weather, but that is duplicated by SoCal, Texas, Florida. Texas and Florida have tax advantages too.

To ignore what has happened here is to be blinded by optimism. Heck, we signed a FA to a 3 yr deal, then promptly traded him. We inked up the MoBros... then tried to trade them.

Players do talk to each other. Agent too. I can't imagine many positive things mentioned about what has gone on here over the past 6 months or so. Not to mention the already negative view Sarver achieved with his hard pro-owner stance and other antics. We also had the tension/take it or leave it negotiating with Bledsoe

May be I/others are over rating this impact, but you cannot deny there are owners/franchises that player want to play for. I do not think we are on that list.

I do not expect much of an impact signing this yr. McDuh-kenstien is going to have to swap his way to a better team.

[RunDogGun]

Time will tell, I was just pointing out that FAs have expressed that they want to play here, even after Sarver and the negotiations issue. It's a business, guys will go where the money and places to showcase their talent. The best med staff in the biz doesn't hurt with aging stars, looking for some decent cash, while sustaining their career.

I think many are ignoring this, because they hate our owner or FO.

[Frank Lee]

because we disagree or question the moves of the FO does not equate to hate.

I just gave up my seat in his fan club.

[RunDogGun]

because we disagree or question the moves of the FO does not equate to hate.

I just gave up my seat in his fan club.

I didn't say you were one of the ones who hate our owner. However, calling our GM names, sounds a bit hateful.

I'm not saying we are a FA attraction, we haven't really had the money to attract a big name. It's probably why we traded to get Knight, to give us a better chance to sign him, if he was a possible FA target like wiretap suggested a few days ago.

Same might happen if we want Monroe. Since he stayed with Detriot, they could do a sign and trade, and we could use some assets, to keep us from breaking the bank.

However, I still haven't heard the list of FA that were available, who snubbed us because of the reasons you and Hottie listed.

[JTrain]

Link?

It was on Facebook a few years ago and I think he said it somewhere else too, maybe a radio show. I can't find a link but I promise it happened.

I am not really doubting you, I believe it. But I am not going to repeat it myself unless I can document it.

I posted the quotes.

[HootieRules]

because we disagree or question the moves of the FO does not equate to hate.

I just gave up my seat in his fan club.

I didn't say you were one of the ones who hate our owner. However, calling our GM names, sounds a bit hateful.

I'm not saying we are a FA attraction, we haven't really had the money to attract a big name. It's probably why we traded to get Knight, to give us a better chance to sign him, if he was a possible FA target like wiretap suggested a few days ago.

Same might happen if we want Monroe. Since he stayed with Detriot, they could do a sign and trade, and we could use some assets, to keep us from breaking the bank.

However, I still haven't heard the list of FA that were available, who snubbed us because of the reasons you and Hottie listed.

Suns have had money and flexibiltiy in free agency (as recently as last summer) and struck out on everyone except another point guard. They desperately needed front court help and the best they could do was Anthony Tolliver. Again, if you want to hang your hat on Eric Gordon and OJ Mayo as examples of prized free agents, I don't know what to tell you.

Obviously there is no smoking gun list of guys that have publicly said they won't sign with the Suns because of the owner. Player agents are smart and aren't out to unnecessarily burn bridges in the media out of spite and saltiness (only our front office is doing that at the moment). Read the tea leaves man. Use some critical thinking. If you think continually burning bridges and trashing former players publicly has no repercussions and players and agents around the league aren't taking note, you're gullible.

[HootieRules]

If McDonough uses the word "sustainable" one more time I'm going to pull my hair out. Is the history of the league not enough to tell us that overpaying for non all-stars is the wrong way to build a contender? The owner refuses to go through a rebuild. We get it. Stop pissing on the fans and telling them it's raining a contender.

[MrMiyagi]

WE SHOULD SIGN NDAMUKONG SUH!!!!!

[rsavaj]

If McDonough uses the word "sustainable" one more time I'm going to pull my hair out. Is the history of the league not enough to tell us that overpaying for non all-stars is the wrong way to build a contender? The owner refuses to go through a rebuild. We get it. Stop pissing on the fans and telling them it's raining a contender.

Wow, I totally disagree.

Everything we've done in the last few years points towards a rebuild. Traded Nash, Dudley, Scola, Gortat for young players and picks. Refused to keep Frye(a pretty crucial part of the team) because of the cost and his age. Basically moved on from paying Dragic(28) 100 million this summer to Knight(23).

If anything, this rebuild is taking a long freaking time, and fans seem to be losing patience.

[MrMiyagi]

If McDonough uses the word "sustainable" one more time I'm going to pull my hair out. Is the history of the league not enough to tell us that overpaying for non all-stars is the wrong way to build a contender? The owner refuses to go through a rebuild. We get it. Stop pissing on the fans and telling them it's raining a contender.

Wow, I totally disagree.

Everything we've done in the last few years points towards a rebuild. Traded Nash, Dudley, Scola, Gortat for young players and picks. Refused to keep Frye(a pretty crucial part of the team) because of the cost and his age. Basically moved on from paying Dragic(28) 100 million this summer to Knight(23).

If anything, this rebuild is taking a long freaking time, and fans seem to be losing patience.

Two whole seasons. Such a burden to wait. We're are such a cellar team too. It's been truly trying...

[HootieRules]

If McDonough uses the word "sustainable" one more time I'm going to pull my hair out. Is the history of the league not enough to tell us that overpaying for non all-stars is the wrong way to build a contender? The owner refuses to go through a rebuild. We get it. Stop pissing on the fans and telling them it's raining a contender.

Wow, I totally disagree.

Everything we've done in the last few years points towards a rebuild. Traded Nash, Dudley, Scola, Gortat for young players and picks. Refused to keep Frye(a pretty crucial part of the team) because of the cost and his age. Basically moved on from paying Dragic(28) 100 million this summer to Knight(23).

If anything, this rebuild is taking a long freaking time, and fans seem to be losing patience.

Fans that want a quick fix should be ignored. Smart fans are losing patience with being the 9th seed and middling draft picks that don't see the floor. Paying Knight, Bledsoe and the Morrii roughly 200 million combined instead of playing guys like Goodwin and being patient with the Lakers pick isn't a rebuild, it's recklessness disguised as a rebuild.

[NotTraxxe]

Let me make something clear.

Sarver is not liked by the players. Period. Often we think otherwise because of player behavior. Guys like Dudley are just positive people. They look long term and beyond their playing circumstances for their career. We were fortunate to get guys like Nash and Grant.

Hardline owners (a few of these) do like Sarver. But moderate and player friendly owners do not like him. That is the majority.

Media hates him. Hate him. Hate him.

Hate him.

We are not a player destination. We are a mid-market team with a "fair weather" fanbase. The only thing we can offer is money and promises. And we are not known under this ownership as people who keep our 'promises'. McD is a stand up guy. He is certainly respected. But he is walking against a strong current.

We have to spend more. Or make promises we won't keep at times. We did that to Goran. We did that to IT. That has consequences.

I'm a fan for life. But I don't pay for games. I usually get up close and comp'ed when the Suns comes to Texas. And I get comp'ed when I'm in AZ.

So it's easy to be a fan when my $$$ are not in it.

I do miss Jerry though. Everyone does.

[letsgosuns]

I think the Suns are in a great position right now. The biggest problems are the attitudes of the Morris brothers and the lack of talent overall at the forward positions. Besides that, I believe most of the team consists of bright spots. The Suns just cleared out a collection of four players that did not want to be here in the Dragic brothers, Thomas, and Plumlee. They have a franchise center in Alex Len. A backcourt they are in control of that has tons of potential. A couple of great young talents in Goodwin and Warren. The ability offer a max contract to a free agent this summer. And several draft picks aside from their own. If the Suns can trade the Morris brothers this offseason and get a big time free agent power forward or draft a power forward with star potential, they will be even better.

Regardless of what people on here say thinking the Suns would need to include Len or Bledsoe in a trade for a superstar (which is insane anyway to even consider trading Len), the Suns do not need to. Think about what the Thunder got in return for James Harden. One year of Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, and two draft picks. That ain't exactly a good haul for a guy that is a top five player in the league right now. The Wolves got two number one picks for Kevin Love. Anthony Bennett, who some say has been a complete bust and the worst number one pick of all time, and Andrew Wiggins, who Brian Windhorst just said would have not been traded had he agreed to sign with Lebron's agent. Those are the two most recent star players I know of being traded. When I look at the packages each team got for them, I firmly believe a trade consisting of the Morris brothers and 2 draft picks is enough to trade for a superstar. Depending on the player, I would consider adding either another pick or one of either Goodwin or Warren ONLY if it is a player that is truly top 10 in the league.

There are only maybe a handful of teams that are championship contenders. The Suns are not close but they are not super far away either. You saw how good they can be when they play well like they did against the Thunder, or how bad they can be like the game they just had against the Spurs. All they need is one big time superstar and there is no reason why they cannot elevate themselves to elite status with that player plus the internal improvement of the current players. This team is also in a far better position it was before the trade deadline.

[Scutt]

If McDonough uses the word "sustainable" one more time I'm going to pull my hair out. Is the history of the league not enough to tell us that overpaying for non all-stars is the wrong way to build a contender? The owner refuses to go through a rebuild. We get it. Stop pissing on the fans and telling them it's raining a contender.

Wow, I totally disagree.

Everything we've done in the last few years points towards a rebuild. Traded Nash, Dudley, Scola, Gortat for young players and picks. Refused to keep Frye(a pretty crucial part of the team) because of the cost and his age. Basically moved on from paying Dragic(28) 100 million this summer to Knight(23).

If anything, this rebuild is taking a long freaking time, and fans seem to be losing patience.

Fans are losing patience because the Suns have yet to truly rebuild, they keep trying to patch together a team that can fight for the last playoff spot.

When the Suns finally moved on from Nash, Sarver admitted he couldn't handle a complete rebuild and wanted to "remain competitive". So they brought in Dragic, Scola, and Beasley to go along with Gortat, and built a team they thought could fight for the 8th seed. It obviously didn't work out the way they planned, and despite our front offices best efforts to end up with the 14th pick again, we landed the #5 pick.

The next year they ship off Scola and Gortat and its seems like the Suns are finally ready to build from the ground up, yet after a hot start to the season, the rotation only had the Morris Bros and Bledsoe as players 25 and under. A true rebuilding team should not have featured heavy doses of Gerald Green, Goran Dragic, PJ Tucker, and Channing Frye. All of those players are veteran role players without high ceilings and there was no need for all of them to be on a supposed rebuilding team.

Moving on to this offseason, the Suns decide to bring in Isaiah Thomas as "insurance for Bledsoe", despite already having a perfectly capable starting point guard in Goran Dragic. Why would they do this? A rebuilding team surely wouldn't have. Had Bledsoe left, the Suns could/ should have gone with a starting backcourt of Dragic and Green, while letting Ennis and Goodwin develop off the bench. That is not what happened. They brought in IT because they saw that they were so close to the 8th seed the year before, that they just couldn't miss out on it again. They wanted to be able to plug in another guard, who can average 18 points a game RIGHT NOW and help the team simply make the 8th seed, even if it meant stifling the development of younger players.

And now here we are with Brandon Knight and it is almost the exact same situation. The Suns gave up Ennis, Plumlee, and the Lakers pick so they could have a combo guard who averages 18 points a game RIGHT NOW and gives them a better chance to make the 8th seed, over keeping Ennis and letting him and Goodwin get a shot in the rotation. With Knight, it is a little more palatable because he seems to fit the teams needs more than Thomas, and is a lot less selfish.

The Suns would rather take flyers on others teams trash and hope for the 8th seed, than to be bad and let the young players they draft actually develop. Until that changes, there will always be fans that are critical. I've said it many times, the only bright spot to this season has been Alex Len and the only reason we got a chance at the #5 pick was the previous front office's horrible judge of talent. As a Suns fan, I am tired of seeing us as the 9th seed and ending up with #13 and #14 picks.

The Suns need to start building around Alex Len and should be focusing on developing his offensive game, not collecting more ready now combo guards, that take away his shot attempts, just because it gets us closer to the 8th seed.

[Frank Lee]

Scutt with the Nut

[jcsunsfan]

because we disagree or question the moves of the FO does not equate to hate.

I just gave up my seat in his fan club.

I don't know. Calling him names like "Mc Duh-kenstein" would be considered to in most people's "hater" category.

Of course, I think I am going to call Markieff "Dorothy" from now on, because he seems to want to click his heels and go back to Kansas where everyone loves him just for being him.

[rsavaj]

Knight is 23 years old. I don't see how he's not part of a rebuilding team.

Seems like some wont be satisfied until 80% of our roster spots go to guys who can't buy a drink.

[Scutt]

Knight is 23 years old. I don't see how he's not part of a rebuilding team.

Seems like some wont be satisfied until 80% of our roster spots go to guys who can't buy a drink.

His age has nothing to do with it. Its the fact that he is a combo guard and a restricted free agent. We are going to have to over pay to keep him and he may not even want to be here, as it sounds like he views himself/ wants to be a point guard.

You mentioned letting Channing Frye and Goran Dragic go as support for the Suns rebuilding. Yet Dragic asked for a trade. From all accounts, the Suns front office was fully anticipating bringing him back before the season started. They even signed his scrub brother to a multi year contract. As far as Frye goes, Sarver just recently mentioned that they had interest in bringing him back, but he only gave the team 3 minutes to match the Orlando offer. And who did they bring in as Channing Fryes replacement? Oh that's right, a 29 year old Anthony Tolliver.

Look at our offseason moves, signing Tolliver, Thomas, and locking up Bledsoe and the Morris Bros. Here we are in the beginning of March, and Thomas and Tolliver are gone and we tried to trade the Morris Bros. That is 3 out of the 4 moves where our front office crapped the bed, obviously that is going to raise some concern among fans. The Suns still seem to lack any long term vision and have no set plan, it feels like they are just winging it, hoping for something to materialize.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Rebuilding always looks bad until it doesn't.

When there is no gettable All-Star or top 10 pick, every move looks like you're wasting time.

So in the absence of that, out of contract rookies with high ceilings is probably the next best option.

We had 2 options to rebuild, tank or do what we're doing now. There was enough discontent here last season with people 50/50 on whether we should win or lose, so if we chose that instead, we'd still have people unhappy.

My main gripe, is drafting 8 of the GOATS (Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan, Kobe, Pierce, Wade, Nowitzki, James) has been responsible for 22 of the past championships. This was step 1, something you can control, why aren't we following this proven blueprint? That is one way to get your big move done in the few years you're fiddling around.