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What is so different from last year?

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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#61 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 4, 2015 5:46 pm

In Len We Trust wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
In Len We Trust wrote:I agree. They absolutely would. However, the media and experts never watch the Suns. The average one has seen 2-3 Suns games this year.

You can't compare the opinions of people that don't watch the games and pay attention to the coaching to someone that does. I know you watch the games, but perhaps you either don't pay attention to the coaching or are looking at it from a biased standpoint. I get it, Hornacek is a likable guy. Good player for the Suns, good guy to have around, but you can't be so biased when you look at what he does.

You also don't want to go against the popular opinion. Hornacek is currently viewed as a good coach by the majority, and you can't really accept the unpopular opinion.


I have ZERO problem going against the popular opinion. I understand some of the frustrating things Hornacek does. I watch A LOT of teams in football AND basketball and I see tons of boneheaded decisions all the time.

I look at everything relatively speaking.

I think many of the guys like Lowe, Simmons, Elhassan, Pelton and others watch the Suns quite a bit. And the national guys see their fair share of every game because they are in studio with them all on.

A lot of the basketball guys watch ALL the games on replay FF. I follow many of them on twitter and see them comment about these things on occasion.

I agree about Len. I want him to get more minutes. I don't want to see Plumlee play...maybe sparingly if needed. Len seems to be a MAJOR disruption on defense when he is in there.

But I don't think we are seeing things that Hornacek isn't. I think he is doing things for a reason. I think if we were able to sit down and interview him we would probably come away with some understanding and be like "Oh, ok....I kind of understand his thinking."

I think he is a lot smarter at this stuff than anyone posting here. Even you, believe it or not. :D


So he is doing things for an apparently good reason, even though nobody here, including his defenders like you can't even come up with a possible explanation?

I see no reason as of right now to trust Hornacek when he is directly responsible for half of the Suns losses this season.


None of us here know the dynamics of the locker room, mistakes people make, etc. You should read more of Los Soles posts. He has demonstrated how much more effective our team has been with Kieff at the 5. Should that be the case against bigger teams like Memphis? I don't know. I don't have the numbers of how things work when we force teams to adjust to what we do, etc. I haven't really dove into the details like people like Los Soles do. I know none of you guys against Hornacek have either, at least I've never seen anything here that provides concrete evidence. I just see knee jerk reactions.

We may have ever even been in half of the games we ended up losing if Hornacek didn't coach the team up to the point. We have blown some leads and we've made some great comebacks, as all teams do. Some of it might be on Hornacek, but much of the responsibility lies on the players. He can get a team ready, but he can't force them to make shots, or necessarily make great decisions every time they have the ball.

Your black and white view is childish.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#62 » by JTrain » Wed Feb 4, 2015 7:16 pm

We need the black t-shirt jerseys.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoW6CqzaRKg[/youtube]
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#63 » by Revived » Wed Feb 4, 2015 7:52 pm

TASTIC wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:........ When we win, we're still terrible and lucky to have won that game. We lose, proof of how terrible we are. I don't understand how anyone can enjoy watching sports that way.


(yagi? you again? hahaha)

This has been the least enjoyable to watch winning team I have followed. And IMO, its not but one 6 or 7 game tailspin away from imploding. Something is not right internally.

Coach has asked these guys to buy in to a system devised after we woke up one day and had three dynamic PGs. I'll chicken or egg this one right now. I think Munchkin-ball was created to accommodate the 'safety signing' of IT. Once Bled inked up longterm, we had to honor the promise to IT with minutes and involvement, else it could hinder future FA dealings. If Bled took the QO, his butt would have been traded by now. The curveball the FO may not have anticipated was Dragic throwing out a 'wtf? I'll gladly go elsewhere' comment.

So, I think the main difference is we have tweaked our game plan to accommodate our roster and have implemented an offense based on shoot if you have a open look, and plattered it to some voracious chuckers. We pushed Dragic into the corner, literally, and have cemented Rooks on the bench. Our offense seems confused, but gets bailed out with ISO ball.

Last yr, we were a pick and roll team.... this yr ???? Not so much.

Exactly, it's ALL iso/hero ball apart from fast breaks. Or that stupid weave we run at the top of the key!!!

This is a bizarre team. I feel we're as likely to win 12 straight as we are lose 12 straight.


Dragic isn't happy, you can see it. He barely cheers, he looks disinterested at times and he won't be back if this is it for the next 2-3 years. Get the ball in his hands, that's how our unit rolls - with him and Bledsoe taking turns and Green on the other wing.

To his credit, he hasn't pouted and he's looked much more like a leader since the tech he got - seeing him calming Markieff down was something we hadn't really seen yet, which speaks volumes about him.

Agreed 100%. And that's what I'm saying as well. Even our wins have been so depressing.

There's a lot of problems with this team right now and barring various trades, I don't see how it continues.

We haven't heard anything about the Suns in trade
Reports from guys like Marc Stein, Adrian Woj etc either so I wonder if the FO is content with this team and is just gonna stand PAT.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#64 » by JTrain » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:01 pm

They aren't going to let Dragic walk. Sarver loves him and he is basically the face of the franchise. Plus he is an asset and they won't let him go for nothing.

IT is on a great contract and is a very important tradeable asset for us right now. If it's determined at the end of the season that it's not working, he will be shopped around and McD will find a great deal in the form of a SF or PF.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#65 » by In Len We Trust » Wed Feb 4, 2015 8:34 pm

SF88 wrote:
TASTIC wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
(yagi? you again? hahaha)

This has been the least enjoyable to watch winning team I have followed. And IMO, its not but one 6 or 7 game tailspin away from imploding. Something is not right internally.

Coach has asked these guys to buy in to a system devised after we woke up one day and had three dynamic PGs. I'll chicken or egg this one right now. I think Munchkin-ball was created to accommodate the 'safety signing' of IT. Once Bled inked up longterm, we had to honor the promise to IT with minutes and involvement, else it could hinder future FA dealings. If Bled took the QO, his butt would have been traded by now. The curveball the FO may not have anticipated was Dragic throwing out a 'wtf? I'll gladly go elsewhere' comment.

So, I think the main difference is we have tweaked our game plan to accommodate our roster and have implemented an offense based on shoot if you have a open look, and plattered it to some voracious chuckers. We pushed Dragic into the corner, literally, and have cemented Rooks on the bench. Our offense seems confused, but gets bailed out with ISO ball.

Last yr, we were a pick and roll team.... this yr ???? Not so much.

Exactly, it's ALL iso/hero ball apart from fast breaks. Or that stupid weave we run at the top of the key!!!

This is a bizarre team. I feel we're as likely to win 12 straight as we are lose 12 straight.


Dragic isn't happy, you can see it. He barely cheers, he looks disinterested at times and he won't be back if this is it for the next 2-3 years. Get the ball in his hands, that's how our unit rolls - with him and Bledsoe taking turns and Green on the other wing.

To his credit, he hasn't pouted and he's looked much more like a leader since the tech he got - seeing him calming Markieff down was something we hadn't really seen yet, which speaks volumes about him.

Agreed 100%. And that's what I'm saying as well. Even our wins have been so depressing.

There's a lot of problems with this team right now and barring various trades, I don't see how it continues.

We haven't heard anything about the Suns in trade
Reports from guys like Marc Stein, Adrian Woj etc either so I wonder if the FO is content with this team and is just gonna stand PAT.


Could not agree more. The Suns can win or lose to anybody on any given night, and in almost every single win there is at least a small part of the game where we suck. 90% of our wins have been either not impressive or frustrating.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#66 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Feb 4, 2015 11:23 pm

When have we ever heard something about the Suns in a trade until it was a done deal? Calm yourself people. I'm sure McD isn't sitting with his thumbs up his ass.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#67 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Feb 4, 2015 11:53 pm

Andrew Sharp gets it. Zach Lowe gets it. Suns fans on this board? Missing it big time. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/risin ... enix-suns/
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#68 » by Revived » Thu Feb 5, 2015 12:04 am

Probably cause Andrew Sharper and Zach Lowe don't watch every or most Suns games like people here and just go with the national vibe that the Suns are the "feel good" story of the NBA. The Nuggets were "feel good" story of the NBA few years ago too (post-Melo) with guys Ty Lawson and Wilson Chandler, non stars, leading them to 50+ wins. Looks where they are now.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#69 » by In Len We Trust » Thu Feb 5, 2015 1:37 am

I don't understand why people care what these national writers think. I care about the opinions of Eddie Johnson and Al Mccoy more than I care about Sharper and Lowe.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#70 » by Cutter » Thu Feb 5, 2015 1:49 am

In Len We Trust wrote:I don't understand why people care what these national writers think. I care about the opinions of Eddie Johnson and Al Mccoy more than I care about Sharper and Lowe.

Not sure why, butI I really like Eddie Johnson. I like his style of communication, he seems like a good ol' boy who played the game and has credibility in what he is talking about. Also, he seems to have a great sense of humor. I associate a sense of humor with intelligence, and think Eddie has both in abundance.

No homo. :lol:
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#71 » by MrMiyagi » Thu Feb 5, 2015 4:13 am

In Len We Trust wrote:I don't understand why people care what these national writers think. I care about the opinions of Eddie Johnson and Al Mccoy more than I care about Sharper and Lowe.

And when did McCoy and EJ turn on Kieff, Hornacek, and just about everyone else on the roster save Bledsoe and Len? I'm pretty sure they know we're playing good basketball, we're young and we're improving. Y'all don't seem to be getting that.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#72 » by rsavaj » Thu Feb 5, 2015 4:46 am

In Len We Trust wrote:I don't understand why people care what these national writers think. I care about the opinions of Eddie Johnson and Al Mccoy more than I care about Sharper and Lowe.


It's fine that you don't understand. The rest of us will continue to enjoy reading what the national media(including excellent writers like Zach Lowe) and their takes on the Suns.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#73 » by In Len We Trust » Thu Feb 5, 2015 6:19 am

rsavaj wrote:
In Len We Trust wrote:I don't understand why people care what these national writers think. I care about the opinions of Eddie Johnson and Al Mccoy more than I care about Sharper and Lowe.


It's fine that you don't understand. The rest of us will continue to enjoy reading what the national media(including excellent writers like Zach Lowe) and their takes on the Suns.



Never said they weren't good writers or not worth reading. I'm just saying that their opinion of the Suns isn't any more educated than even ours.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#74 » by In Len We Trust » Thu Feb 5, 2015 6:23 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
In Len We Trust wrote:I don't understand why people care what these national writers think. I care about the opinions of Eddie Johnson and Al Mccoy more than I care about Sharper and Lowe.

And when did McCoy and EJ turn on Kieff, Hornacek, and just about everyone else on the roster save Bledsoe and Len? I'm pretty sure they know we're playing good basketball, we're young and we're improving. Y'all don't seem to be getting that.



They never will, even if they wanted to. You think Al Mccoy is allowed to just blast Hornacek on the radio? They are employees on the Suns. Of course they aren't going to do that, they get paid not to. Dumb argument.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#75 » by MrMiyagi » Thu Feb 5, 2015 6:33 am

In Len We Trust wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
In Len We Trust wrote:I don't understand why people care what these national writers think. I care about the opinions of Eddie Johnson and Al Mccoy more than I care about Sharper and Lowe.

And when did McCoy and EJ turn on Kieff, Hornacek, and just about everyone else on the roster save Bledsoe and Len? I'm pretty sure they know we're playing good basketball, we're young and we're improving. Y'all don't seem to be getting that.



They never will, even if they wanted to. You think Al Mccoy is allowed to just blast Hornacek on the radio? They are employees on the Suns. Of course they aren't going to do that, they get paid not to. Dumb argument.

Isn't it dumb to say, "I care about the opinions of Eddie Johnson and Al Mccoy more than I care about Sharper and Lowe" then if they can only say good things? So it's your dumb argument.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#76 » by In Len We Trust » Thu Feb 5, 2015 6:39 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
In Len We Trust wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:And when did McCoy and EJ turn on Kieff, Hornacek, and just about everyone else on the roster save Bledsoe and Len? I'm pretty sure they know we're playing good basketball, we're young and we're improving. Y'all don't seem to be getting that.



They never will, even if they wanted to. You think Al Mccoy is allowed to just blast Hornacek on the radio? They are employees on the Suns. Of course they aren't going to do that, they get paid not to. Dumb argument.

Isn't it dumb to say, "I care about the opinions of Eddie Johnson and Al Mccoy more than I care about Sharper and Lowe" then if they can only say good things? So it's your dumb argument.


:roll:

I wasn't talking about what they say about Hornacek's performance. I'm just talking about opinions of the Suns in general. My point was really that they are people that watch every game and watch from the perspective of a fan of the team (just like everyone on this board) and people like Lowe do not. That does not in any way mean Lowe is bad or anything close to that. That was not my point.

/dumb argument
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#77 » by MrMiyagi » Thu Feb 5, 2015 7:32 am

In Len We Trust wrote:
:roll:

I wasn't talking about what they say about Hornacek's performance. I'm just talking about opinions of the Suns in general. My point was really that they are people that watch every game and watch from the perspective of a fan of the team (just like everyone on this board) and people like Lowe do not. That does not in any way mean Lowe is bad or anything close to that. That was not my point.

/dumb argument


In Len We Trust wrote:I see no reason as of right now to trust Hornacek when he is directly responsible for half of the Suns losses this season.

So that wasn't you then?

I brought up the Sharp article because he talks about Hornacek's impressive coaching job this season and last season. You say that his opinion doesn't matter, but McCoy and Johnson's do. McCoy and Johnson also like the job Hornacek's been doing.

You're right, this is a dumb argument because you don't have one.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#78 » by JTrain » Thu Feb 5, 2015 7:35 pm

EJ isn't shy about voicing criticisms on-air when he feels they're warranted. Of course he would never come out and say, "Hornacek sucks and he should be fired." But if he felt that way, I'm pretty sure you could pick up on it from listening to him, I haven't noticed that at all.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#79 » by Revived » Tue Mar 3, 2015 6:49 am

JTrain wrote:We need the black t-shirt jerseys.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoW6CqzaRKg[/youtube]

Only sleeve jerseys that don't actually look horrific.
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Re: What is so different from last year? 

Post#80 » by Revived » Tue Mar 3, 2015 6:53 am

Frank Lee wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:........ When we win, we're still terrible and lucky to have won that game. We lose, proof of how terrible we are. I don't understand how anyone can enjoy watching sports that way.


(yagi? you again? hahaha)

This has been the least enjoyable to watch winning team I have followed. And IMO, its not but one 6 or 7 game tailspin away from imploding. Something is not right internally.

Coach has asked these guys to buy in to a system devised after we woke up one day and had three dynamic PGs. I'll chicken or egg this one right now. I think Munchkin-ball was created to accommodate the 'safety signing' of IT. Once Bled inked up longterm, we had to honor the promise to IT with minutes and involvement, else it could hinder future FA dealings. If Bled took the QO, his butt would have been traded by now. The curveball the FO may not have anticipated was Dragic throwing out a 'wtf? I'll gladly go elsewhere' comment.

So, I think the main difference is we have tweaked our game plan to accommodate our roster and have implemented an offense based on shoot if you have a open look, and plattered it to some voracious chuckers. We pushed Dragic into the corner, literally, and have cemented Rooks on the bench. Our offense seems confused, but gets bailed out with ISO ball.

Last yr, we were a pick and roll team.... this yr ???? Not so much.

Frank you prophet....

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