Game 61: Phoenix Suns (31-29) @ Miami Heat (25-33)

[NavLDO]

I'm tired of hearing how much better we are than 18,19,20 months ago. That is a cherry-picked argument.
I could sit here and say "look how much better we are than the 1963 Suns" or "Look how much better we are than the second half of 1901" or whatever. it doesn't mean anything. -- I wonder why someone would choose to use the argument that where we are now compared to the end of the '12/'13 season? Is it because, oh, IDK, maybe because we had a huge FO turnover then? Could it be because our starting 5 were Dragic, Dudley, Tucker, Scola, Gortat then, and is Bledsoe, Knight, Tucker, Kieff, Len now--4 of 5 different starters? And 12 of 15 total players are different. This isn't some random decision to use that time frame.

How are we compared to this exact time last season? That is a much better barometer of progress. The fact is we took a step backwards, THIS SEASON.

Our RECORD has taken a step backward this season from last season; the players PERFORMANCE has taken a step backwards this season. But, the TEAM necessarily hasn't.

I mean, seriously, look at the performance of Dragic, Green, Plumlee, Tucker, Kieff, Marcus--ALL of their performance have declined since last year. Some more than others, and while I understand PER is not the end-all, be-all of statistics, but it is a holistic stat that is fairly accurate to describe a player's performance. Looking at the numbers for each: Dragic-- 22 to 17; Bledsoe--20 to 19.5; Green--17 to 15; Plumlee--14.9 to 13.3; Tucker--13.6 to 13; Kieff--18.8 to 15.5; Marcus--15.2 to 14.5.

It's a foregone conclusion that several of these players played out of their minds last year, and above what their TRUE capabilities are, and we STILL didn't make the playoffs. Last year was just a step in the right direction, but it certainly wasn't a barometer of which this season should be compared to. So no, it is NOT a better barometer of progress. It is just a more recent barometer of progress, but a much more flawed one, as it doesn't represent the true abilities of the players.

Ya guys, don't voice your displeasure with this newly charted course backwards that could have been prevented. Only talk about puppy dogs and ice cream and keep your head buried in the sand.

No one has their head buried in the sand. No one here is claiming that we are destined to improve, just that some time should be given before claiming that the team is destined to crash and burn, which is exactly what a lot of the 'negative nancies' here are spewing. All this talk of how Hornacek, Babby, and McD should be fired--after they have taken a 25-57 team to a 31-30 team. As has been stated multiple times--last year was an aberration.

And up until Dragic started his b!tchfest, the Suns were actually in the 8th seed and 3 games ahead of OKC/NOP. Dragic then decides to throw the team under the bus, forces McD's hand into trades he probably did not want to make, and now we are the 10th seed, 2 1/2 games out of the 8th seed. And now, Hornacek has the pleasure of mid-season, attempting to integrate 2 new players, after losing 2 of our best scorers and an athletic (albeit limited talent) big, and somehow our entire FO should be fired? Like this is all their fault? But Saint Dragic gets a 'pass' after all he did and the situation he put this team in?

No, no one here has their 'head buried in the sand', with maybe the exception of those that continue to lay 100% of the blame on McD and Horny, and ZERO blame on the guy who actually had a huge part in making this mess. Yep, let's just expect Horny to create miracles, and well, if he doesn't, then we should just fire him, right? Unbelievable.

Question for you--how are the Bucks doing now that they've swapped Knight for MCW/Ennis? And yes, Miami is doing better, but that is because they didn't lose any key pieces in trades, and simply added one. It's not because Dragic is an All-Star level player and the savior of their franchise--it's because they added a very good player without losing any. The Suns, on the other hand, again, lost 2 key scorers and added one, who, at the moment, is struggling, but will surely rebound into a very good player for us by next season.

[enigmatics]

And up until Dragic started his b!tchfest, the Suns were actually in the 8th seed and 3 games ahead of OKC/NOP. Dragic then decides to throw the team under the bus, forces McD's hand into trades he probably did not want to make, and now we are the 10th seed, 2 1/2 games out of the 8th seed. And now, Hornacek has the pleasure of mid-season, attempting to integrate 2 new players, after losing 2 of our best scorers and an athletic (albeit limited talent) big, and somehow our entire FO should be fired? Like this is all their fault? But Saint Dragic gets a 'pass' after all he did and the situation he put this team in?

Your memory of this journey is fuzzy. This all didn't transpire days before the trade. This was a fluid situation that evolved from the day Bledsoe got his payday and then they follow it up by tossing money at IT and drafting another PG.

No, no one here has their 'head buried in the sand', with maybe the exception of those that continue to lay 100% of the blame on McD and Horny, and ZERO blame on the guy who actually had a huge part in making this mess. Yep, let's just expect Horny to create miracles, and well, if he doesn't, then we should just fire him, right? Unbelievable.

I don't put much blame on Horny. His coaching was perfectly fine last year with that roster. McDildo meddled again in his quest to obtain Precious Assets like Gollum from Lord of the Rings and it changed everything .... especially with trying to acclimate three ball dominant PG's.

[TeamTragic]

This thread and this forum have gone to ****. I'm not really surprised by the fact that we are losing games. Our "star player" decided to take a dump on the FO and now we have to restart the entire process.

Having said that you guys are toxic and I hope you hit your head on the door when you leave the house

It has gone down the ****. Lets try and figure out who has signed up in the last couple of weeks so we can pinpoint it.

I think we should focus on your posts and the overall sand-in-vagina effect brought on by everyone's boyfriend Goran Dragic crying his way off the team

[NavLDO]

And up until Dragic started his b!tchfest, the Suns were actually in the 8th seed and 3 games ahead of OKC/NOP. Dragic then decides to throw the team under the bus, forces McD's hand into trades he probably did not want to make, and now we are the 10th seed, 2 1/2 games out of the 8th seed. And now, Hornacek has the pleasure of mid-season, attempting to integrate 2 new players, after losing 2 of our best scorers and an athletic (albeit limited talent) big, and somehow our entire FO should be fired? Like this is all their fault? But Saint Dragic gets a 'pass' after all he did and the situation he put this team in?

Your memory of this journey is fuzzy. This all didn't transpire days before the trade. This was a fluid situation that evolved from the day Bledsoe got his payday and then they follow it up by tossing money at IT and drafting another PG.

--OK, so this makes sense now as to why your position on the matter is what it is. I'm not the one with the fuzzy memory. If you follow the link to another thread, you will see a timeline of events this past summer/fall. You'll clearly see that Dragic stated he would opt out and re-sign in PHX on 9 Sep. This, of course followed the drafting of Ennis and signing of IT. We signed Bledsoe two weeks later, and no indication that Dragic changed his mind. So no, they didn't give Bledsoe his payday, then follow it up with signing IT and drafting Ennis, it was the exact opposite of that.

Then, as recently as 18 January, in an interview with some LA media group, he stated:

“I’m really happy here in Phoenix and they have given me everything I have ever dreamed,” Dragic said in an interview with Los Angeles Newspaper Group. “I feel like I’m at home here. But I’ll explore my options.”

Then, in a blog post on 13 Feb, BSOTs reported that Dragic was unhappy. So what happened in that 3 week period? IDK, but at some point Dragic became "unhappy," and it was somewhere during that period where we had a 3 game lead for the 8th seed. So yes, it did "transpire days before the trade."

Now, I'm sure you'll try to retort that of course, Dragic isn't going to say he's unhappy in an interview, but it was a bit of a shock when they met with Dragic a few days before the deadline to basically tell him they were committed to him and would basically trade IT, it was basically reported that IT wasn't the main issue, now it was Bledsoe. Well, he didn't seem to have an issue last year with Bledsoe--in fact he had his career year last year with Bledsoe on the roster.

Sorry, but Dragic was pretty much blaming everyone else but himself for his issues, but I'm pretty darn sure that had he played to the level he did last year, again, WITH Bledsoe on the roster, he'd still be a Sun today. No, his issue isn't Bledsoe, or Thomas, or Ennis, it's his declined performance that's the issue, and again, it's everyone else's fault.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1373225&start=80

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/2015011 ... ent-market

No, no one here has their 'head buried in the sand', with maybe the exception of those that continue to lay 100% of the blame on McD and Horny, and ZERO blame on the guy who actually had a huge part in making this mess. Yep, let's just expect Horny to create miracles, and well, if he doesn't, then we should just fire him, right? Unbelievable.

I don't put much blame on Horny. His coaching was perfectly fine last year with that roster. McDildo meddled again in his quest to obtain Precious Assets like Gollum from Lord of the Rings and it changed everything .... especially with trying to acclimate three ball dominant PG's.

What don't you understand about the several month long saga that was Bledsoe's RFA process. McD had to plan for the potentiality that Bledsoe would not re-sign with us. He didn't sign IT because he wanted to have a 3 PG system. Yes, IT was probably seen as an asset to some degree, but I highly doubt that was his first consideration. But as was stated above, McD agreed to trade IT to convince Dragic to stay--to make him happy, but apparently, it was now Bledsoe's fault, and he wanted to be the only ball-dominant PG on the roster. But again, how come he didn't have an issue with it last year when playing half the season in the 2 PG system? Because he thrived in it, and had he done so again, this would never have been an issue, because he stated as much on the off-season, that he would opt out and re-sign in PHX--Why? Because he had a career year last year. This year? Not so much, so NOW it was a problem.

Sorry, but I'm calling a "spade a spade." When players play well, they are happy, when not, then all the excuses come out.

[enigmatics]

--OK, so this makes sense now as to why your position on the matter is what it is. I'm not the one with the fuzzy memory. If you follow the link to another thread, you will see a timeline of events this past summer/fall. You'll clearly see that Dragic stated he would opt out and re-sign in PHX on 9 Sep. This, of course followed the drafting of Ennis and signing of IT. We signed Bledsoe two weeks later, and no indication that Dragic changed his mind. So no, they didn't give Bledsoe his payday, then follow it up with signing IT and drafting Ennis, it was the exact opposite of that.

Then, as recently as 18 January, in an interview with some LA media group, he stated:

“I’m really happy here in Phoenix and they have given me everything I have ever dreamed,” Dragic said in an interview with Los Angeles Newspaper Group. “I feel like I’m at home here. But I’ll explore my options.”

Then, in a blog post on 13 Feb, BSOTs reported that Dragic was unhappy. So what happened in that 3 week period? IDK, but at some point Dragic became "unhappy," and it was somewhere during that period where we had a 3 game lead for the 8th seed. So yes, it did "transpire days before the trade."

Now, I'm sure you'll try to retort that of course, Dragic isn't going to say he's unhappy in an interview, but it was a bit of a shock when they met with Dragic a few days before the deadline to basically tell him they were committed to him and would basically trade IT, it was basically reported that IT wasn't the main issue, now it was Bledsoe. Well, he didn't seem to have an issue last year with Bledsoe--in fact he had his career year last year with Bledsoe on the roster.

Sorry, but Dragic was pretty much blaming everyone else but himself for his issues, but I'm pretty darn sure that had he played to the level he did last year, again, WITH Bledsoe on the roster, he'd still be a Sun today. No, his issue isn't Bledsoe, or Thomas, or Ennis, it's his declined performance that's the issue, and again, it's everyone else's fault.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1373225&start=80

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/2015011 ... ent-market

So basically you just showed me that something after January 18th really set this thing off ..... enough to the point where Goran Dragic a known team player and a guy who's given his blood on the court for this team suddenly doesn't trust them anymore. You're just not privy to the information.

That's soooooo like him though right? The kid that let bygones be bygones and return to Phoenix after they once previously quit on him and shipped him away? Nothing about Goran has ever proven selfish and his entire track record leading up to this fiasco was entirely self-less. I'm supposed to believe Gollum the asset collector has nothing to do with drawing his ire. LOL

What don't you understand about the several month long saga that was Bledsoe's RFA process. McD had to plan for the potentiality that Bledsoe would not re-sign with us. He didn't sign IT because he wanted to have a 3 PG system. Yes, IT was probably seen as an asset to some degree, but I highly doubt that was his first consideration. But as was stated above, McD agreed to trade IT to convince Dragic to stay--to make him happy, but apparently, it was now Bledsoe's fault, and he wanted to be the only ball-dominant PG on the roster. But again, how come he didn't have an issue with it last year when playing half the season in the 2 PG system? Because he thrived in it, and had he done so again, this would never have been an issue, because he stated as much on the off-season, that he would opt out and re-sign in PHX--Why? Because he had a career year last year. This year? Not so much, so NOW it was a problem.

Sorry, but I'm calling a "spade a spade." When players play well, they are happy, when not, then all the excuses come out.

McD's plan was self-serving otherwise that extension with Dragic would have been worked out already. They continued to let him dangle and it's pretty clear the playing time situation deteriorated as the season progressed, both IT and Dragic weren't getting what was promised to them.

Based on Babby's and McDildo's comments about Knight, odds are Dragic found out there was talk about a swap. By the time McD offered to ship IT out it was too late.

Chances are none of this happens if IT isn't signed.

[RunDogGun]

Extension? How could they make an extension with Dragic when he still had a player option year left on his contract? And even if he was able to negotiate an extension, why would he sign it, when it would be based on his current contract, and he would lose millions of dollars signing that extension.

[RunDogGun]

So Zoran was too good to go to our DLeague, but he will go to the Heat's? This is getting stinkier from the Dragic side.

[bwgood77]

What don't you understand about the several month long saga that was Bledsoe's RFA process. McD had to plan for the potentiality that Bledsoe would not re-sign with us.

I guess you don't have the knowledge of how RFA works, but Bledsoe had no option but to sign with us. Even if he took the QO (which he never would have) he still would have had to sign with us. But about RFA, if he signs an offer sheet with someone else, we are allowed to match the offer and keep him, and we said we'd do just that.

Every time you mention that McD had to plan for Bledsoe possibly leaving, you are wrong, because he couldn't leave. That is how RFA works. When you have a guy on a rookie contract, you control him in his next contract as well, unless he wants to risk it all for peanuts and play out his QO, but a guy with injury history and especially someone who wants to get paid would never do it.

[Revived]

I think he means you expect the veteran players like the Morris brothers or Green to be the ones you can rely on to give you the best chance to win but they are not getting it done. So therefore, the younger guys like Goodwin and Warren are actually the ones that give the team the best chance to win. That is my understanding of what he said.

So he says that and yet continues to play Morris brothers and Green over Goodwin and Warren. Makes sense if your tanking I guess.

Hopefully Hornacek will play Goodwin and Warren a lot more after this comments. I think he is done with Green. I want a new rotation for the last 20 games, something like that :

Bledsoe 35'/ Knight 13'
Knight 22'/Goodwin 26'
P.J. Tucker 24'/ Warren 24'
Markieff 30'/Marcus 18'
Len 30'/Wright 18'

No more Green, Thornton or Barron...they are not part of our future and they will be FA after this season.
Bullock can play some minutes at SG or SF if we want to see his level of production on the court.

I would like to see some Bullock get some burn as well but other than that, yea I'd love that rotation. I don't think Hornacek has what it takes to bench veteran players even in favor of younger players for the long run though.

[denial]

I'm tired of hearing how much better we are than 18,19,20 months ago. That is a cherry-picked argument.
I could sit here and say "look how much better we are than the 1963 Suns" or "Look how much better we are than the second half of 1901" or whatever. it doesn't mean anything.

How are we compared to this exact time last season? That is a much better barometer of progress. The fact is we took a step backwards, THIS SEASON.

I don't think their is anything wrong with comparing our team to any one of our teams in the past 5 years. The amount of roster turnover we've had and the different types of teams we've fielded. Also, we may have taken a step back record wise but I think we all should have a clearer image of what our FO wants and how McD still views this as a long term rebuild.

I just think people are conveniently skipping the past 12 months of history to avoid holding the FO accountable.
Everyone, including the FO needs to acknowledge REALITY so we can actually start rebuilding.

Is the team better since McD took over? Yes!!
Is the team better than we were last season? No.
Have we taken a step backwards? Yes.
Did we act like little bitches during/after the Dragic trade? Yes.
Do we have a really young team, an awesome young center, and a very bright future? YES!!!

As long as we acknowledge the truth, realize our mistakes, and get better than we have been (in terms of management, player personel, coaching, and system)

I'm not being negative. I just am very sick of McD, Babby, and fans arguing that because we are better off than when McD took over we should all worship him and not hold him accountable. Yes, we are better than when we took over. But we just blew everything up and we are starting from SCRATCH. Knight is not our savior. Nor are the Morii. And I'm not sure Bled is either. Let's just be real with ourselves and I will quit my griping.

Last season, McD took a 25 win team and got them close to 50 wins. Awesome. He deserved all the praise he got LAST YEAR.

This season, McD took a 48 win team and got them close to 40 wins (estimated). He has not had a great season. That is all Im saying.

[RunDogGun]

McD had no way of knowing that Plumlee would regress as much as he did. He had no way of knowing that both Bledsoe and Goran would come out so inconsistent. Green is half the player he was last year. So until we can address the fact that there was really no way of knowing those things would happen, it's almost impossible to judge moves right now.

[MilotheSlayer]

I'm tired of hearing how much better we are than 18,19,20 months ago. That is a cherry-picked argument.
I could sit here and say "look how much better we are than the 1963 Suns" or "Look how much better we are than the second half of 1901" or whatever. it doesn't mean anything.

How are we compared to this exact time last season? That is a much better barometer of progress. The fact is we took a step backwards, THIS SEASON.

I don't think their is anything wrong with comparing our team to any one of our teams in the past 5 years. The amount of roster turnover we've had and the different types of teams we've fielded. Also, we may have taken a step back record wise but I think we all should have a clearer image of what our FO wants and how McD still views this as a long term rebuild.

I just think people are conveniently skipping the past 12 months of history to avoid holding the FO accountable.
Everyone, including the FO needs to acknowledge REALITY so we can actually start rebuilding.

Is the team better since McD took over? Yes!!
Is the team better than we were last season? No.
Have we taken a step backwards? Yes.
Did we act like little bitches during/after the Dragic trade? Yes.
Do we have a really young team, an awesome young center, and a very bright future? YES!!!

As long as we acknowledge the truth, realize our mistakes, and get better than we have been (in terms of management, player personel, coaching, and system)

I'm not being negative. I just am very sick of McD, Babby, and fans arguing that because we are better off than when McD took over we should all worship him and not hold him accountable. Yes, we are better than when we took over. But we just blew everything up and we are starting from SCRATCH. Knight is not our savior. Nor are the Morii. And I'm not sure Bled is either. Let's just be real with ourselves and I will quit my griping.

Last season, McD took a 25 win team and got them close to 50 wins. Awesome. He deserved all the praise he got LAST YEAR.

This season, McD took a 48 win team and got them close to 40 wins (estimated). He has not had a great season. That is all Im saying.

And I agree with you that McD didn't necessarily handle the roster balance the best. And I do think that the comments post deadline were a bit childish. But I still think he made the best out of the situation he put himself in. Not many people would admit they didn't make the roster balanced enough. People on this board are just dwelling on negativity which is just getting old. Not saying anything you said was negative. I actually agree that we had a better team last year at this time than this year. But I do think we have a better future at this time than we did last year.

[NavLDO]

What don't you understand about the several month long saga that was Bledsoe's RFA process. McD had to plan for the potentiality that Bledsoe would not re-sign with us.

I guess you don't have the knowledge of how RFA works, but Bledsoe had no option but to sign with us. Even if he took the QO (which he never would have) he still would have had to sign with us. But about RFA, if he signs an offer sheet with someone else, we are allowed to match the offer and keep him, and we said we'd do just that.

Every time you mention that McD had to plan for Bledsoe possibly leaving, you are wrong, because he couldn't leave. That is how RFA works. When you have a guy on a rookie contract, you control him in his next contract as well, unless he wants to risk it all for peanuts and play out his QO, but a guy with injury history and especially someone who wants to get paid would never do it.

Yes, I know how the RFA process works--basically, at least. I also know we had 1 year left of Dragic, 1 year left of Bledsoe, and nothing after that. Signing IT assured us of having at least 1 veteran PG for the '15/'16 season.

Tell me this. Why do you think McD traded for and signed IT? Asset collection? To run a 3 PG system? Insurance against having 0 veteran PGs at the start of next season? Or to be 'used' as a 'tool' in the negotiations with Bledsoe--basically, showing him we have options and don't NEED him?

To me, in order of primary-to-least-important, it would be question 4, then 3, then 1, then 2.

That's my point of all this. If McD wanted to add assets, why the hell would he choose the ONE position in the NBA that is flooded with talent?

[NavLDO]

So basically you just showed me that something after January 18th really set this thing off ..... enough to the point where Goran Dragic a known team player and a guy who's given his blood on the court for this team suddenly doesn't trust them anymore. You're just not privy to the information.

That's soooooo like him though right? The kid that let bygones be bygones and return to Phoenix after they once previously quit on him and shipped him away? Nothing about Goran has ever proven selfish and his entire track record leading up to this fiasco was entirely self-less. I'm supposed to believe Gollum the asset collector has nothing to do with drawing his ire. LOL

What don't you understand about the several month long saga that was Bledsoe's RFA process. McD had to plan for the potentiality that Bledsoe would not re-sign with us. He didn't sign IT because he wanted to have a 3 PG system. Yes, IT was probably seen as an asset to some degree, but I highly doubt that was his first consideration. But as was stated above, McD agreed to trade IT to convince Dragic to stay--to make him happy, but apparently, it was now Bledsoe's fault, and he wanted to be the only ball-dominant PG on the roster. But again, how come he didn't have an issue with it last year when playing half the season in the 2 PG system? Because he thrived in it, and had he done so again, this would never have been an issue, because he stated as much on the off-season, that he would opt out and re-sign in PHX--Why? Because he had a career year last year. This year? Not so much, so NOW it was a problem.

Sorry, but I'm calling a "spade a spade." When players play well, they are happy, when not, then all the excuses come out.

McD's plan was self-serving otherwise that extension with Dragic would have been worked out already. They continued to let him dangle and it's pretty clear the playing time situation deteriorated as the season progressed, both IT and Dragic weren't getting what was promised to them.

Based on Babby's and McDildo's comments about Knight, odds are Dragic found out there was talk about a swap. By the time McD offered to ship IT out it was too late.

Chances are none of this happens if IT isn't signed.

How was he supposed to sign an extension with Dragic? He would never go for that due to the limits the CBA puts on extensions? So again, your confusion with how this all works is clouding your judgment. They didn't "dangle" anything. They were waiting for Dragic to opt out of his contract, then planned on re-signing him. What were they supposed to do? Cancel his contract and sign him to a Max right now? Thus destroying their Salary Cap? Players and Teams play by the rules set by the CBA--in some cases it benefits the player; and in some cases it benefits the team.

Doesn't matter, though, as there is no point arguing with someone that doesn't understand the timeline of events in how they happened, doesn't understand how the basics of how the CBA works, and continuously uses childish nicknames for FO personnel like "Gollum" and "McDildo". Really? If you are such a Dragic fanboy, and can't stand McD, then by all means, you should consider going to root for the Heat and Riley. Yes, McD made some mistakes, and actually owned up to it in public, but what has Dragic done? Nothing but moan and complain about everyone else, and has refused to take any responsibility for what happened.

[bwgood77]

Yes, I know how the RFA process works--basically, at least. I also know we had 1 year left of Dragic, 1 year left of Bledsoe, and nothing after that. Signing IT assured us of having at least 1 veteran PG for the '15/'16 season.

Tell me this. Why do you think McD traded for and signed IT? Asset collection? To run a 3 PG system? Insurance against having 0 veteran PGs at the start of next season? Or to be 'used' as a 'tool' in the negotiations with Bledsoe--basically, showing him we have options and don't NEED him?

To me, in order of primary-to-least-important, it would be question 4, then 3, then 1, then 2.

That's my point of all this. If McD wanted to add assets, why the hell would he choose the ONE position in the NBA that is flooded with talent?

I don't think signing IT was a priority at all until most all other targets signed elsewhere either while he was holding out thinking he'd get LeBron and another star or even after that some targets signed elsewhere. I think it was kind of a last resort to use the cap space while we could, before signing Bledsoe.

So basically, I feel he signed him because it was a good value signing and a good pg to have on the bench. I really don't think he was signing him to be our pg of the future if we somehow lost Dragic AND Bledsoe. I convinced myself it was a decent signing at the time because it was a good value signing. I was wrong though, as were they.

And it's fine to make mistakes, learn from them, and correct them. I would have traded IT sooner though if possible since it was obvious chemistry was drastically impacted.

Ultimately I'm fine the way things turned out because I really like Brandon Knight. I even suggested during the summer, that if Bledsoe demanded a trade or a S&T, that perhaps one for Knight, Middleton and a first rounder would be decent since Milwaukee had interest.

I don't blame or hold any ill will towards Dragic because I understand why you would want to be in the best situation possible where your skills are properly utilized. He was a bit unprofessional, but I feel the FO has looked childish at times throughout the whole ordeal....almost high school-ish.

I believe in McD for the future, as he is young. I think he may be a little too full of himself though, but a little of that can be a good thing. But if you start slinging mud on players, it doesn't look good or professional to the players or agents across the league.

[NavLDO]

Ultimately I'm fine the way things turned out because I really like Brandon Knight. I even suggested during the summer, that if Bledsoe demanded a trade or a S&T, that perhaps one for Knight, Middleton and a first rounder would be decent since Milwaukee had interest.

I don't blame or hold any ill will towards Dragic because I understand why you would want to be in the best situation possible where your skills are properly utilized. He was a bit unprofessional, but I feel the FO has looked childish at times throughout the whole ordeal....almost high school-ish.

Well, I'm a bit more "upset" with Dragic than most, but because I believe he was more than just a "bit unprofessional," so of course, my opinion is more jaded than many. What he did, by saying he would only sign long-term with 3 teams, was effectively take 27 other team out of the negotiations (not that that many wanted him, but we'll never know). And as I've stated before, the Kings were interested, until that point, and not that they would have been the ultimate trade partner, or provided more value, but at least McD would have had more leverage in his negotiations, before they dropped their interest immediately following Dragic's comments. Whereas nothing the FO said following (which was, yes, a bit childish, I admit), negatively affected Dragic in the least, but what Dragic said, and did, DID negatively affect this team. Sorry, I don't see it any other way. I don't expect everyone else to feel the same way, and that's fine, but the constant accusations that somehow the FO was to primarily to blame is BS. Dragic acted just fine up until February, then flipped his attitude. Fine, he wants to be in the best situation for him, but then talk to McD/Babby privately about it--don't "air your dirty laundry" to the press. At least give McD the chance to get the most he can possibly get, while getting Dragic to Mia, LAL, or NYK.

Again, Dragic tied McD's hands; McD is the Suns GM, responsible for acquiring assets/talent for our beloved team; thus Dragic hurt this team. Agree...don't agree...whatever (not you personally, bwgood), but no one is going to be able to convince me differently on this matter, unless facts or proof becomes otherwise available .

Now, on Knight? Yes, I am glad we obtained him, and think he'll eventually grow into an important cog on this team, and I personally feel, given the chance, he has a better-than-likely-opportunity to become even better than Dragic has ever been, or will be.

[bwgood77]

Ultimately I'm fine the way things turned out because I really like Brandon Knight. I even suggested during the summer, that if Bledsoe demanded a trade or a S&T, that perhaps one for Knight, Middleton and a first rounder would be decent since Milwaukee had interest.

I don't blame or hold any ill will towards Dragic because I understand why you would want to be in the best situation possible where your skills are properly utilized. He was a bit unprofessional, but I feel the FO has looked childish at times throughout the whole ordeal....almost high school-ish.

Well, I'm a bit more "upset" with Dragic than most, but because I believe he was more than just a "bit unprofessional," so of course, my opinion is more jaded than many. What he did, by saying he would only sign long-term with 3 teams, was effectively take 27 other team out of the negotiations (not that that many wanted him, but we'll never know). And as I've stated before, the Kings were interested, until that point, and not that they would have been the ultimate trade partner, or provided more value, but at least McD would have had more leverage in his negotiations, before they dropped their interest immediately following Dragic's comments. Whereas nothing the FO said following (which was, yes, a bit childish, I admit), negatively affected Dragic in the least, but what Dragic said, and did, DID negatively affect this team. Sorry, I don't see it any other way. I don't expect everyone else to feel the same way, and that's fine, but the constant accusations that somehow the FO was to primarily to blame is BS. Dragic acted just fine up until February, then flipped his attitude. Fine, he wants to be in the best situation for him, but then talk to McD/Babby privately about it--don't "air your dirty laundry" to the press. At least give McD the chance to get the most he can possibly get, while getting Dragic to Mia, LAL, or NYK.

Again, Dragic tied McD's hands; McD is the Suns GM, responsible for acquiring assets/talent for our beloved team; thus Dragic hurt this team. Agree...don't agree...whatever (not you personally, bwgood), but no one is going to be able to convince me differently on this matter, unless facts or proof becomes otherwise available .

Now, on Knight? Yes, I am glad we obtained him, and think he'll eventually grow into an important cog on this team, and I personally feel, given the chance, he has a better-than-likely-opportunity to become even better than Dragic has ever been, or will be.

Yeah, we disagree on Dragic impacting his trade value. No team would have given nearly anything like two first rounders for him without an assurance he would re-sign. I'm surprised you believe a team, especially one outside of the playoff race would give up more than two first rounders for 2-3 months of his services. I think the fact that there were three teams, helped assure those teams that he would be willing to re-sign, in which case they would be willing to give up more than they otherwise would have.

But I know you won't see it any other way, so we can agree to disagree.

[denial]

And I agree with you that McD didn't necessarily handle the roster balance the best. And I do think that the comments post deadline were a bit childish. But I still think he made the best out of the situation he put himself in. Not many people would admit they didn't make the roster balanced enough.

I agree that he probably made the best out of the situation that he put himself in.

Although I don't see him admitting anything. He said flat-out that he did not regret signing IT. He has defended his moves relentlessly.

Paraphrased:
"18 months ago we had 25 wins... but look at us now! We're a few bounces from being the 8th seed."

"We got rid of a bunch of selfish guys and we still have the best players: keef and bled"

"We're young and have more picks and assets than ever before"

Everything has this spin on it.

"I have never made a mistake, will never make a mistake, and the Suns are great. We're almost the 8th seed! 18 months ago we only won 25 games!"

[denial]

McD had no way of knowing that Plumlee would regress as much as he did. He had no way of knowing that both Bledsoe and Goran would come out so inconsistent. Green is half the player he was last year. So until we can address the fact that there was really no way of knowing those things would happen, it's almost impossible to judge moves right now.

It's kind of his job to know those things. I'm not saying that is an easy job. But that is what he is paid (very well) for. And in my opinion, players didn't regress talent-wise. They just stopped fitting-in. That's a coach's job, imo. Stand-around iso/chuck ball doesn't do anything to complement the style of players we had (or the one's we have now).

[NavLDO]

And I agree with you that McD didn't necessarily handle the roster balance the best. And I do think that the comments post deadline were a bit childish. But I still think he made the best out of the situation he put himself in. Not many people would admit they didn't make the roster balanced enough.

I agree that he probably made the best out of the situation that he put himself in.

Although I don't see him admitting anything. He said flat-out that he did not regret signing IT. He has defended his moves relentlessly.

Paraphrased:
"18 months ago we had 25 wins... but look at us now! We're a few bounces from being the 8th seed."

"We got rid of a bunch of selfish guys and we still have the best players: keef and bled"

"We're young and have more picks and assets than ever before"

Everything has this spin on it.

"I have never made a mistake, will never make a mistake, and the Suns are great. We're almost the 8th seed! 18 months ago we only won 25 games!"

It's too bad he's the only GM that attempts to put a positive spin on the direction the team is making. Oh wait, he's just like EVERY OTHER GM in the NBA, in that regard. What do you expect him to say: "I've done a horrible job as a GM. Not sure why I even have a job at this point. Face it, our team stinks, I just traded away our best player for a two 1st Rd picks, one in 2 years, the other in 6 years. Hornacek can't coach worth a lick. We're doomed, and it's all my fault."

I mean, come on, every GM spins everything for a the positive, but the bottom line is, he's done more to help this team since he's been here, than hurt it. And he did admit that the roster he put together was unbalanced. He didn't use a scape goat, he didn't blame Babby, or Sarver--he owned up to it. Why would he regret the IT signing. We had the cap space, he signed him for below his value, and turned him into a late-1st next year. It was a good signing, just a poor fit, is all.