PG: Bobcats beat LOLters

[Kabookalu]

Sam Mitchell would have turned JV into an All Star

Who knows if it'd be the best for him in the long term. The one thing that peeved me about Bosh was how slow he made his decisions. Who could ever forget his patented hold onto the ball for 4 seconds before deciding to do something. I was waiting for Bosh to develop quicker decision making for 7 years. He didn't. After like season 3 and 4 the only thing he made noticeable improvements in his game was his 3 point shooting. It was like he became content sticking with his strengths, and when he needed to improve to make that next step to superstardom, he just improved what he was already good at.

One of Jonas' weaknesses is one of Bosh's biggest weaknesses, slow decision making. However I loved what I've seen from Jonas these past 2 games. Very quick reads that got swung that led to open shots (which our players failed to capitalize on). Sometimes a player's strength has to be hindered in order to develop their weaknesses; when the tough gets going, they need to scrap it out using their weaknesses to figure their way our of situations so it can develop rather than relying on what they're already good at, like Bosh for seven seasons.

With that said Casey's excuse for not playing Jonas in the 4th quarter is unacceptable. Jonas WAS making really good passes despite the constant double teams and a packed paint. When he got the ball he did wonders with it. He was finally flexing these new found muscles, so it was only right that he gets to exercise them. Casey didn't allow that.

[hsb]

Team is close to free falling. Don't know why the Bobcats have the Raps number.

[UneducatedFan86]

PPG (MIN: FGM/A(%), FTM/A, REB, STL, AST, BLK)
7 (27min: 2/4(.500), 3/6, 12 reb, 1 stl)
16 (27min: 6/8(.750), 4/6, 6 reb, 1 stl)
5 (23min: 1/2(.500), 3/4, 5 reb, 1 stl. 1 blk)
26 (30min: 12/17(.706), 2/2, 11 reb, 1 ast, 2 blk)
9 (23min: 2/3(.666), 5/5, 6 reb, 2 blk)

Those are his point totals in the last 5. Not very consistent.

Added the bold parts. Numbers without some context don't tell much.

Shoots a good %, gets to the line, gets rebound, gets a steal, gets blocks, plays the fewest minutes of the starters (during this stretch). Seems decently consistent to me.

Now, is it his fault he only is only getting a handful of shots a game? Maybe. Maybe he needs to demand the ball more. Maybe they need to run a few more plays for him. Who knows. It's not like he's shooting 10/12 one game and then 1/10 the next (like some players).

Let's look a bit deeper. Jonas numbers compared to the rest of team (players averaging 20min+):
PER GAME STATS:
tied for 4th in MPG with Patterson (26.4)
3rd in FG% (.564)
4th in FTA (3.7)
1st in ORB (2.4)
1st in DRB (6.0)
1st in TRB (8.7)
2nd in BLK (1.1)
4th in PTS (12.1)
tied for 4th in TOV with Vasquez (1.4)
ADVANCE STATS:
1st in PER (20.4)
2nd in TS% (.621)
1st in FTr (.461) yes, higher than Demar(.459).
1st in ORB% (11.7)
1st DRB% (26.5)
1st TRB% (19.1)
2nd BLK% (3.5)
5th USG% (18.9)
tied for 1st with Lowry in OWS (4.4)
1st in DWS (1.9)
1st in WS (6.3)
1st in WS/48 (.190)

For someone who "isn't" a factor to this team, he sure leads this team in a lot of stats. Not saying you said he wasn't a factor, just remarking on a previous comment by another poster.

57th by centers in real plus minus.

Top of the list are names like :

1 DeMarcus Cousins
2 Tyson Chandler
3 Hassan Whiteside
4 Andrew Bogut
5 Jusuf Nurkic
6 DeAndre Jordan
7 Marc Gasol MEM
8 Timofey Mozgov
9 Al Horford

Okay...? He doesn't stack up in one stat. Fair enough. Let's check some other stats.

Jonas numbers when compared to the rest of the league at ANY position (based on minute qualification):
5th in FG%
6th in 2P%
16th in Reb
30th in PER
6th in TS%
9th in EffFG%
13th in ORB%
11th in DRB%
8th in TRB%
11th in Offensive rating
19th in OWS
14th in WS/48

[J_Sky_G]

We are 14-16 since that Portland loss.

[raptor jesus]

At one point we had Grievis, Lou, Lowry, Ross and JJ on the court, then it starts to make sense how we get outrebounded by 20. It just boggles my mind the rotations Casey comes up with. This man is completely f*cking insane.

Guaran-f*cking-teed that Casey never sniffs a HC job in the nba again. I'd be willing to bet the relocation of our franchise on it.

We probably conceded a board here and there because of Casey's scrambling defence, but the rebound deficit was largely result of lackadaisical effort on the players part. Guys just weren't boxing out. Casey made mistakes tonight, but this is not something you can pin on him. When you get outrebounded but 20, the players, for lack of a better term, have to look in the mirror.

[artsncrafts]

Jonas haters! Whats next, Sterner haters?

[J_Sky_G]

At one point we had Grievis, Lou, Lowry, Ross and JJ on the court, then it starts to make sense how we get outrebounded by 20. It just boggles my mind the rotations Casey comes up with. This man is completely f*cking insane.

Guaran-f*cking-teed that Casey never sniffs a HC job in the nba again. I'd be willing to bet the relocation of our franchise on it.

We probably conceded a board here and there because of Casey's scrambling defence, but the rebound deficit was largely result of lackadaisical effort on the players part. Guys just weren't boxing out. Casey made mistakes tonight, but this is not something you can pin on him.

Benching your best rebounder for long stretches of the game when you're in dire need of rebounding is definitely something you can pin on the coach.

[dsquared]

At one point we had Grievis, Lou, Lowry, Ross and JJ on the court, then it starts to make sense how we get outrebounded by 20. It just boggles my mind the rotations Casey comes up with. This man is completely f*cking insane.

Guaran-f*cking-teed that Casey never sniffs a HC job in the nba again. I'd be willing to bet the relocation of our franchise on it.

We probably conceded a board here and there because of Casey's scrambling defence, but the rebound deficit was largely result of lackadaisical effort on the players part. Guys just weren't boxing out. Casey made mistakes tonight, but this is not something you can pin on him.

To start off, please don't ever compare us to the Warriors, we might as well be playing in 2 different leagues. (I know you edited your post)

Now why was there a need to play small this game? Lou didn't have it going, Lowry was ice cold all game until garbage time, Grievis too, in fact all of our guards except Derozan were terrible today. I don't understand why we have to play JJ at the 5 instead of the 4... then we can replace Lou with Val so we can actually have our only true rebounder in the game. You really don't see the correlation with Val playing 23 minutes and us getting killed on the boards? It's all on the coach.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

57th by centers in real plus minus.

Top of the list are names like :

1 DeMarcus Cousins
2 Tyson Chandler
3 Hassan Whiteside
4 Andrew Bogut
5 Jusuf Nurkic
6 DeAndre Jordan
7 Marc Gasol MEM
8 Timofey Mozgov
9 Al Horford

Khris Middelton is above DMC, Kawhi, CP3 in RPM. Stats like that are not the end be all of discussion.

Living up to your name eh. Real Plus Minus is one of the best stats there is. Khris Middleton is actually pretty good. Go ask the Bucks forum. One name being in a certain position does not mean the entire stat is worthless. JV being that low shows that his impact on this team is nowhere near Lowry's or Lou's. He simply doesn't make us much better compare to those guys.

Looking at one stat in a vacuum is short sighted and serves no purpose, most analytics people will tell you that. While Khris Middelton is a good 3 + D player and is an up and comer in the league, ask buck fans if they would rather DMC/Kawhi/CP3 or Middelton and see what answer you get. The guy outlined a ton of stats for you but all you did was pick the one that fit your narrative.

[raptor jesus]

At one point we had Grievis, Lou, Lowry, Ross and JJ on the court, then it starts to make sense how we get outrebounded by 20. It just boggles my mind the rotations Casey comes up with. This man is completely f*cking insane.

Guaran-f*cking-teed that Casey never sniffs a HC job in the nba again. I'd be willing to bet the relocation of our franchise on it.

We probably conceded a board here and there because of Casey's scrambling defence, but the rebound deficit was largely result of lackadaisical effort on the players part. Guys just weren't boxing out. Casey made mistakes tonight, but this is not something you can pin on him.

Benching your best rebounder for long stretches of the game when you're in dire need of rebounding is definitely something you can pin on the coach.

The rebounding problem was more a result of the guards not boxing out, but yeah, Jonas should have been out there, for sure.

[Danchan]

doesnt matter if u have a better team with better players...our opponents most often than not win have better coaching, have a better system, have better strategies and tactics, run better plays, manage the game and match up better...thats hard to overcome every night

I came on realgm to say almost the exact same thing. I guess you beat me to it.


I can't help feeling we have the better group of players almost every game, but consistently seem to have worse coaching.

both are pretty wrong. for example Al Jefferson is already more talented than everyone on our roster. Only thing he held back by injury.

beside Jonas I wouldn't say we are oozing with talent.

on paper we are pretty ****. Ask anyone outside of the toronto fan base what they think about our players. Even Masai have to hide behind buzz words like chemistry and organic growth when he talks about his players.
There's a reason even when the team was cruising the power ranking position is always lower than a few other teams lesser in record. Our roster don't exactly install confidence to those who watches basketball for a living.

[Kevin Willis]

The coaching staff is obviously experimenting. In the past week we've had Patterson, GV, TRoss and JJ come in and out of the starting lineup. Only consistent is JV and DD. Also against Cavs JV plays big minutes in the 4th and against Charlotte Casey goes small.

I'm hoping they find out what they need to know and in the next 10 - 15 games and become more consistent in how they want to play in the playoffs. They're trying to win, but they're also trying to get guys going even if the team doesn't win. I"m not a coach, I'm not sure what they're looking for - but it's obvious they want to get back to doing the scrambling defense in the end of the game that worked so well last year. They also want to get DD / Lowry going, maybe to open up the game for everyone else. We'll see how this plays out - if it's still messy in 2 weeks then I'll get worried. One thing is for certain, they don't care about getting 2nd. If they only played .500 ball after the all star break they would've had a good cushion. 3rd and 4th is Washington /Milwaukee.

[raptor jesus]

At one point we had Grievis, Lou, Lowry, Ross and JJ on the court, then it starts to make sense how we get outrebounded by 20. It just boggles my mind the rotations Casey comes up with. This man is completely f*cking insane.

Guaran-f*cking-teed that Casey never sniffs a HC job in the nba again. I'd be willing to bet the relocation of our franchise on it.

We probably conceded a board here and there because of Casey's scrambling defence, but the rebound deficit was largely result of lackadaisical effort on the players part. Guys just weren't boxing out. Casey made mistakes tonight, but this is not something you can pin on him.

To start off, please don't ever compare us to the Warriors, we might as well be playing in 2 different leagues. (I know you edited your post)

Now why was there a need to play small this game? Lou didn't have it going, Lowry was ice cold all game until garbage time, Grievis too, in fact all of our guards except Derozan were terrible today. I don't understand why we have to play JJ at the 5 instead of the 4... then we can replace Lou with Val so we can actually have our only true rebounder in the game. You really don't see the correlation with Val playing 23 minutes and us getting killed on the boards? It's all on the coach.

Guys ignoring box out assignments is all on the coach? Jonas should have definitely been out there, yes. But such a grandiose rebounding differential is a team wide issue, and not linked to a single player.

[dsquared]

doesnt matter if u have a better team with better players...our opponents most often than not win have better coaching, have a better system, have better strategies and tactics, run better plays, manage the game and match up better...thats hard to overcome every night

I came on realgm to say almost the exact same thing. I guess you beat me to it.


I can't help feeling we have the better group of players almost every game, but consistently seem to have worse coaching.

both are pretty wrong.

beside Jonas and Lowry I wouldn't say we are oozing talent.

on paper we are pretty ****. Ask anyone outside of the toronto fan base what they think about our players. Even Masai have to hide behind buzz words like chemistry and organic growth when he talks about his players.
There's a reason even when the team was cruising the power ranking position is always lower than a few other teams lesser in record. Our roster don't exactly install confidence to those who watches basketball for a living.

Considering how many times we play terrible east teams we definitely have the better line-up more often that not. If we were in the west I agree with you, but the analysis of getting constantly out-coached and out-planned against inferior teams is pretty spot on.

[dsquared]

We probably conceded a board here and there because of Casey's scrambling defence, but the rebound deficit was largely result of lackadaisical effort on the players part. Guys just weren't boxing out. Casey made mistakes tonight, but this is not something you can pin on him.

To start off, please don't ever compare us to the Warriors, we might as well be playing in 2 different leagues. (I know you edited your post)

Now why was there a need to play small this game? Lou didn't have it going, Lowry was ice cold all game until garbage time, Grievis too, in fact all of our guards except Derozan were terrible today. I don't understand why we have to play JJ at the 5 instead of the 4... then we can replace Lou with Val so we can actually have our only true rebounder in the game. You really don't see the correlation with Val playing 23 minutes and us getting killed on the boards? It's all on the coach.

Guys ignoring box out assignments is all on the coach? Jonas should have definitely been out there, yes. But such a grandiose rebounding differential is a team wide issue, and not linked to a single player.

Dude he trotted out a 'scramble line-up' or w/e he called it with 5 guys who don't have any business getting rebounds. Meanwhile the opponents have Zeller and Al Jeff on the court, like who do you think is going to grab more rebounds? It's a no brainer, and yes one player can make that much of a difference, look at Hassan Whiteside.

[Death Knight]

Jonas haters! Whats next, Sterner haters?

Jonas haters are only hating him to protect and apologize for Demar and Lowry. Simple as that.

[raptor jesus]

To start off, please don't ever compare us to the Warriors, we might as well be playing in 2 different leagues. (I know you edited your post)

Now why was there a need to play small this game? Lou didn't have it going, Lowry was ice cold all game until garbage time, Grievis too, in fact all of our guards except Derozan were terrible today. I don't understand why we have to play JJ at the 5 instead of the 4... then we can replace Lou with Val so we can actually have our only true rebounder in the game. You really don't see the correlation with Val playing 23 minutes and us getting killed on the boards? It's all on the coach.

Guys ignoring box out assignments is all on the coach? Jonas should have definitely been out there, yes. But such a grandiose rebounding differential is a team wide issue, and not linked to a single player.

Dude he trotted out a 'scramble line-up' or w/e he called it with 5 guys who don't have any business getting rebounds. Meanwhile the opponents have Zeller and Al Jeff on the court, like who do you think is going to grab more rebounds? It's a no brainer, and yes one player can make that much of a difference, look at Hassan Whiteside.

Size doesn't always equal success on the boards. Boxing out is just as important as sheer size.

One of several instances in which the players couldn't be bothered to put a body on someone.

[Northface82]

Patterson's 2nd straight ZERO point game.
But yeah, lets play him over JV.

**** dummies.

[raptor jesus]

At one point we had Grievis, Lou, Lowry, Ross and JJ on the court, then it starts to make sense how we get outrebounded by 20. It just boggles my mind the rotations Casey comes up with. This man is completely f*cking insane.

Guaran-f*cking-teed that Casey never sniffs a HC job in the nba again. I'd be willing to bet the relocation of our franchise on it.

I would also like to add that I can't find any evidence of this lineup playing together tonight.

[cammac]

The biggest insult of the game was putting in Chuck Hayes instead of Jonas.
Chuck is what he is a 6ft6 Troll not a C.