PG: Bobcats beat LOLters

[Hero]

Spoiler:

You would trade JV for Mozgov, Jordan, Chandler or Whiteside straight up?

I can see some teams preferring Jordan if they need a rebounder and rim protector for the short-term, say 3 years. DeAndre will turn 27 this summer so his size and athleticism will still give him 5 years. Hasan Whiteside is going to turn 26 in June whereas JV will only turn 23 in May... 3 years is a lot of time for a center. I doubt any GM would make that trade.

Whoever would seriously consider trading JV for Mozgov straight up is a clown. Similarly, no one would trade for a injury-prone 32 Tyson Chandler, unless they were going for the ship that 1 season but would be an atrocious long-term deal.

I guess Hero and Da1RealRapsFan are the Danchan's of JV. Don't worry, every player needs a Danchan. I am the Danchan of GV.

I actually appreciate players who impact the game on defense. Where have teams led by offense first players like Brook Lopez and Al Jefferson gone? Nowhere.
Where have teams led by defensive players like Hibbert, Chandler etc gone ? Deep in the playoffs.

[JV4MVP]

I guess Hero and Da1RealRapsFan are the Danchan's of JV. Don't worry, every player needs a Danchan. I am the Danchan of GV.

I actually appreciate players who impact the game on defense. Where have teams led by offense first players like Brook Lopez and Al Jefferson gone? Nowhere.
Where have teams led by defensive players like Hibbert, Chandler etc gone ? Deep in the playoffs.

Who's the best player that Al Jefferson has been paired with during his prime?

Hibbert was trash in the playoffs when Indiana went to the EC finals. Vogel reduced his minutes. Indiana's success was due to Paul George / David West and a balanced as hell roster.

Chandler played with prime Nowitzki. What did the Knicks do when Chandler was there? Don't sleep on Al Jefferson.

[artsncrafts]

I can see some teams preferring Jordan if they need a rebounder and rim protector for the short-term, say 3 years. DeAndre will turn 27 this summer so his size and athleticism will still give him 5 years. Hasan Whiteside is going to turn 26 in June whereas JV will only turn 23 in May... 3 years is a lot of time for a center. I doubt any GM would make that trade.

Whoever would seriously consider trading JV for Mozgov straight up is a clown. Similarly, no one would trade for a injury-prone 32 Tyson Chandler, unless they were going for the ship that 1 season but would be an atrocious long-term deal.

I guess Hero and Da1RealRapsFan are the Danchan's of JV. Don't worry, every player needs a Danchan. I am the Danchan of GV.

I actually appreciate players who impact the game on defense. Where have teams led by offense first players like Brook Lopez and Al Jefferson gone? Nowhere.
Where have teams led by defensive players like Hibbert, Chandler etc gone ? Deep in the playoffs.

He is 22! and the Raps are HORRIBLE at defense. Not saying he is good at defense, but you are just looking for a scapegoat for the guards letting their players drive into the lane at will and JV is forced to help leading to his man getting points. He needs to work on the PnR as well as many other things but saying you will trade him straight up for any of the players I mentioned is silly. Maybe if you wanted to win a round this year and this year only before getting set back 5-10 years you can trade him for Chandler, Hibbert, ect.

[JV4MVP]

He is 22! and the Raps are HORRIBLE at defense. Not saying he is good at defense, but you are just looking for a scapegoat for the guards letting their players drive into the lane at will and JV is forced to help leading to his man getting points. He needs to work on the PnR as well as many other things but saying you will trade him straight up for any of the players I mentioned is silly. Maybe if you wanted to win a round this year and this year only before getting set back 5-10 years you can trade him for Chandler, Hibbert, ect.

My exact sentiment. His defense, think principle of verticality and broader IQ has improved. He has also gotten stronger so not as easily bulldozed by guys like Pekovic. PnR still needs work.

Bad perimeter defense forces JV to help at time and is not his fault at all.

[th1]

I would take all those guys over Jonas currently. They all have more developed games by far.



It remains to be seen if Jonas can fulfill the potential we see in him but hassan white sides play > Jonas this year. Tyson chandler on this team would be **** huge.


Wouldn't take bout over him but even nurkic is above him in terms of having a developed post game.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using RealGM Forums mobile app

You would trade JV for Mozgov, Jordan, Chandler or Whiteside straight up?

Who wouldn't?

JV scored 14 of his 26 points being defended by Mozgov. He backed down Mozgov all the way to the basket at will and blocked couple of his shots.

[Illuminati_]

The realities of the situation:

We're in trouble. Big trouble. You don't just turn it on and off like a switch...if we go into the playoffs like this, there is no chance....to win even 2 playoff games!!!

We all complain about Casey. I have defended him. However, JV deserves better and getting no minutes in the 2nd and 4th is embarrassing and quite honestly, I hope he doesn't waste his career on a team that HAS NEVER MOTHER F**KING DEVELOPED ANYONE WHO DIDN'T ALREADY HAVE GOD GIVEN TALENT! (Vince, T-Mac, etc...).

Masai, ball is in your court. Stop wasting my time with Nelson Mandela benefits and Giants of Africa trips. I commend you for this, but it's time to seriously worry about the team you are the GM and president of. Earn you money.

Casey, you're a bad coach. Stop milking your title in Dallas.

I'm very frustrated. We were on the cusp of something great...the Leafs are bad. We need to take advantage. If we regress again there is no turning back....we will lose a fanbase again and be a small tiny core. I'm just very upset at this team and it's history repeating itself.

Kyle Lowry has completely regressed. Nothing to do with fatigue or injuries...he was injured last season to and still carried this team. He has lost his game. He had his peak of career and it was about a 5-7 month stretch dating back to mid last season. That's a fact. We have no ball movement at all...we play awful D, especially defending the three. I'm so concerned.

Rant away.

Couldn't say it better myself. The leafs literally killed me with their gong show and I haven't watched them in over 2 years. Raptors BC era was brutal and if Masai continues to do nothing but use his nba position for his own needs then this team will lose a lot of fans permanently. I remember when I heard to season holder tickets for next season already sold out in a couple hours, I had this bad taste in my mouth. People are quick to forget how awful Toronto teams are and how they toy with your emotions.

Wow...

Never thought this fan base would stoop this low. The gm is almost at every game and matter of fact i ran into him just yesterday in yorkville.

Just because raptors tv takes time to lromote certain causes and events doesnt mean it is their sole focus. Most of those events were shots MONTHS ago and only recently aired.

Its a damn shame a loss like this has you guys questioniv humanitarian efforts and labellin it his own seflish endeavours.

You dont fire a coach this deep into the season its stupid. Who is your replacement? How much time is left? No coach at this point can apply a new offence or philosophy. Hate to say it but at this poiint you have to evaluate your assets and coach and make a long term decision in the summer. Nobody saw this team starting the way it did.

And if you clowns knew anything about this roster the team effort isnt caseys fault. There are a few cancers here who casey cant control.

[Illuminati_]

Shocked nobody else had an issue with that quote. Smh reeked of bigotry.

[Illuminati_]

This team has no leadership or focus to say hey we got OKC and Spurs coming up lets tear some Hornet ass out there and put us in decent position. That's on coach but also lead players.

Ding ding ding.

They can argue about a centre who has shown flashes all they want.

The real issue is that there is no leader. And the few veterans we have are immature clowns..only dude here focused on their career is demar and he is not a leader.

[joseph227]

I can see some teams preferring Jordan if they need a rebounder and rim protector for the short-term, say 3 years. DeAndre will turn 27 this summer so his size and athleticism will still give him 5 years. Hasan Whiteside is going to turn 26 in June whereas JV will only turn 23 in May... 3 years is a lot of time for a center. I doubt any GM would make that trade.

Whoever would seriously consider trading JV for Mozgov straight up is a clown. Similarly, no one would trade for a injury-prone 32 Tyson Chandler, unless they were going for the ship that 1 season but would be an atrocious long-term deal.

I guess Hero and Da1RealRapsFan are the Danchan's of JV. Don't worry, every player needs a Danchan. I am the Danchan of GV.

I actually appreciate players who impact the game on defense. Where have teams led by offense first players like Brook Lopez and Al Jefferson gone? Nowhere.
Where have teams led by defensive players like Hibbert, Chandler etc gone ? Deep in the playoffs.

Hibbert led the Pacers? Wtf, the guy was benched last year. And Chandler led the Mavs? It was Dirk, an offensive player, who was the engine of the franchise.

[Gntts]

Jonas haters are only hating him to protect and apologize for Demar and Lowry. Simple as that.

There wouldn't be as many haters if the game threads wern't filled with "Where's JV???" 10 times a page.

Like it or not, it's justified. Both JV and James Johnson should be getting more minutes than they have been given.

We also keep hearing about how the Raptors need a back up C. That's actually quite laughable. How many minutes do you people think an incoming back up C would get if the starting C Valanciunas is already getting limited playing time?

If a back up C would be 6'5", he would be getting tons of minutes under Casey.

[Danchan]

Considering how many times we play terrible east teams we definitely have the better line-up more often that not. If we were in the west I agree with you, but the analysis of getting constantly out-coached and out-planned against inferior teams is pretty spot on.

what's your definition of "better line-up"

draft position? talent? potential? raw ability? chemistry? actual result?

I look at teams in the bottom of the east, most of them dont lose to raptors in terms of talent. They are bottom because they dont pan out and faces the exact same problem you think the raptors faces.

Heck, look at Miami, they have Wade, Bosh, Deng, whiteside. you actually think the raptors have a better roster on paper?

You might have the "watch a lot of raptors and neglect to watch other teams" syndrome that cause you to be really familiar with the players thus overrating them.

[Saciid11]

I can see some teams preferring Jordan if they need a rebounder and rim protector for the short-term, say 3 years. DeAndre will turn 27 this summer so his size and athleticism will still give him 5 years. Hasan Whiteside is going to turn 26 in June whereas JV will only turn 23 in May... 3 years is a lot of time for a center. I doubt any GM would make that trade.

Whoever would seriously consider trading JV for Mozgov straight up is a clown. Similarly, no one would trade for a injury-prone 32 Tyson Chandler, unless they were going for the ship that 1 season but would be an atrocious long-term deal.

I guess Hero and Da1RealRapsFan are the Danchan's of JV. Don't worry, every player needs a Danchan. I am the Danchan of GV.

I actually appreciate players who impact the game on defense. Where have teams led by offense first players like Brook Lopez and Al Jefferson gone? Nowhere.
Where have teams led by defensive players like Hibbert, Chandler etc gone ? Deep in the playoffs.

Almost every elite team in this league has one thing common.. their best defender is usually the their big man( Center)... ex. Clippers..DeAndre Jordan, Atlanta Al Horford, Memphis Mark Gasol.. Chicago Noah, Spurs Duncan, Dallas Tyson Chandler, Warrior .. Bogut is often injured, but they also have Ezeli is also solid at the defensive end, Rocket Dwight Howard, Cavs Mozgov is pretty solid at the defensive end, OKC Ibaka is not center..but his ability to protect the rim makes him defensive anchor and they also Steven Adam ...

[JV4MVP]

Spoiler:

I guess Hero and Da1RealRapsFan are the Danchan's of JV. Don't worry, every player needs a Danchan. I am the Danchan of GV.

I actually appreciate players who impact the game on defense. Where have teams led by offense first players like Brook Lopez and Al Jefferson gone? Nowhere.
Where have teams led by defensive players like Hibbert, Chandler etc gone ? Deep in the playoffs.

Almost every elite team in this league has one thing common.. their best defender is usually the their big man( Center)... ex. Clippers..DeAndre Jordan, Atlanta Al Horford, Memphis Mark Gasol.. Chicago Noah, Spurs Duncan, Dallas Tyson Chandler, Warrior .. Bogut is often injured, but they also have Ezeli is also solid at the defensive end, Rocket Dwight Howard, Cavs Mozgov is pretty solid at the defensive end, OKC Ibaka is not center..but his ability to protect the rim makes him defensive anchor and they also Steven Adam ...

Luc Longley?

[Saciid11]

There wouldn't be as many haters if the game threads wern't filled with "Where's JV???" 10 times a page.

Like it or not, it's justified. Both JV and James Johnson should be getting more minutes than they have been given.

We also keep hearing about how the Raptors need a back up C. That's actually quite laughable. How many minutes do you people think an incoming back up C would get if the starting C Valanciunas is already getting limited playing time?

If a back up C would be 6'5", he would be getting tons of minutes under Casey.

Casey loved Tyson CHandlers game, I would imagine if he had center who could anchor his defense he would give him more minutes then anyone on this team... Casey is and has always been defense first coach and if Masai gives him his big man I'm pretty sure this team could easily contend in the East if not for title. If he accomplished all the successes he had so far with this team with only two legit starters... Demar and Lowry ... Imagine if he Defensive anchor in the middle and some one like Jimmy Butler at the 3 along side Demar and Lowry.

[Saciid11]

Spoiler:

I actually appreciate players who impact the game on defense. Where have teams led by offense first players like Brook Lopez and Al Jefferson gone? Nowhere.
Where have teams led by defensive players like Hibbert, Chandler etc gone ? Deep in the playoffs.

Almost every elite team in this league has one thing common.. their best defender is usually the their big man( Center)... ex. Clippers..DeAndre Jordan, Atlanta Al Horford, Memphis Mark Gasol.. Chicago Noah, Spurs Duncan, Dallas Tyson Chandler, Warrior .. Bogut is often injured, but they also have Ezeli is also solid at the defensive end, Rocket Dwight Howard, Cavs Mozgov is pretty solid at the defensive end, OKC Ibaka is not center..but his ability to protect the rim makes him defensive anchor and they also Steven Adam ...

Luc Longley?

Micheal Jordan and Scottie Pippen ... Best scorer the league has ever seen and best perimeter defender league has ever seen... Still Luc Longley was decent defender and good offensive player, especially as low post scorer ...

[Saciid11]

I guess Hero and Da1RealRapsFan are the Danchan's of JV. Don't worry, every player needs a Danchan. I am the Danchan of GV.

I actually appreciate players who impact the game on defense. Where have teams led by offense first players like Brook Lopez and Al Jefferson gone? Nowhere.
Where have teams led by defensive players like Hibbert, Chandler etc gone ? Deep in the playoffs.

He is 22! and the Raps are HORRIBLE at defense. Not saying he is good at defense, but you are just looking for a scapegoat for the guards letting their players drive into the lane at will and JV is forced to help leading to his man getting points. He needs to work on the PnR as well as many other things but saying you will trade him straight up for any of the players I mentioned is silly. Maybe if you wanted to win a round this year and this year only before getting set back 5-10 years you can trade him for Chandler, Hibbert, ect.

Gobert is how old?? Nurkic the 16th pick in weak draft is how old ? Age is not excuses unless you want to pamper him for next 7 years like fans here have done with Bargnani .... Remember Bargnani has Dirk type of potential, ohh it's the coach holding him back, ohhh it's Bosh holding him back... because Bargnani real position is power forward ... The same excuses are being made for JV...

You are not getting a better defensive coach then Casey and defense starts in the middle... If your worst defender is your last line of defense then most likely your team defense is gone stink.

[Snooch]

I think demar hates JV. I've never seen them talk on court and whenever demar is on court he ignores JV. Never passes or does anything so that he can score. Demar the scrub that he is likes to be the main peace in TO, because we all know how mlse keeps hyping him up even when he's trash. JV was the next big thing for the raptors, he's the most efficient player on the team but demar doesn't want JV to be the center of attention and does everything to negate that. Lowry and Derozan are best buddies so I bet that has to do something with lowry also ignoring JV. I really hope JV leaves us when the time comes, dude deserves better.

His running mate works better playing off of jv, and jv, right now is in line to take over from demar as a face.

[tsherkin]

Who's the best player that Al Jefferson has been paired with during his prime?

Does it matter? He's been worse than peak LMA almost his entire career despite his aesthetically-pleasing array of post moves. He's excellent at getting low-40s shots without drawing fouls and he doesn't turn the ball over, but that's not the same as good offense, especially as he has declined precipitously on the offensive glass. Jefferson has always been overrated, apart from a pair of seasons alongside Deron in Utah.

Don't sleep on Al Jefferson.

Watch us. He's an inefficient scorer who doesn't typically produce well per-possession and isn't a terribly high-impact defender. Color me unimpressed, and largely so for a decade.

[cruwinas]

Maybe for the fun of it one day I'll rewatch this horror spectacle.

Regarding DD I would rank his options with the ball in his hands following:

1. Option one: create shot for himself, no matter how difficult it could be.
2. Option two: drive to the basket trying to score or get fouled.
3. Option three: if he still has ball in his hands and options 1 and 2 are impossible - pass ball to anyone.

When Harden is on the floor and has a ball, he has only one option - to make a play which is the best for the 5 rockets on the floor. LBJ is a lot like that too.

I honestly don't know if you've watched James Harden play. He's just as scoring oriented as DeRozan, the difference is that he's a significantly better shooter and he gets to the rim much better. And also that he's a better playmaker. Though if you took out Harden's name in that sentence, I wouldn't know which Houston player you were talking about.

In the general board Harden is the most hated player there, all because his game is aesthetically not pleasing to watch, and to a much higher degree, his flopping. His game is shoot a 3 pointer, drive/flop, and if he has to, pass it out to the open man. Rockets fans believe that he puts players in difficult situations sometimes because when his reckless drives to the basket doesn't work he'll just throw it to whoever is open with the shot clock close to zero. The difference between this year and last year is that Patrick Beverly and Trevor Ariza are better catch and shoot players than Lin and Parsons. Donatas has also been a fantastic recipient for corner 3 pointers and close baskets.

Harden ball is a thing there, and it's what we call Hero ball. Harden is just really good at doing what he does.

Not to discredit his playmaking ability, but his passing game is more of a result drawing attention and having the foresight to know where to pass to (to his credit, he's an accurate passer). Though when he has the ball, make no mistake, his first and second intention is to score or draw a foul.

I appreciate your effort to write so much, but there is a thing. I watched every Rockets game last season and this season. And there is another thing - I REALLY didn't like Harden's game 3-4 years ago. But last year and especially this season I converted. He or Curry should be MVP. I lean towards Harden because he is a brain and engine for the Rockets. I think playing in 2014 WC influenced some improvements in his game. I don't read GB, for Rockets stuff I check Clutchfans.
I hoped this season will be special for Raptors, but lately I'm disappointed. Almost every Rockets game is nice, fun, interesting, exciting (and they have some serious injury problems). Raptors games - struggle, constant chucking, inept coaching. Not to the potential.

In other threads I posted how effective our highest scorers are, don't want to repeat myself. Just DD is last in the whole NBA in adjusted FG%. That's pretty bad.

[Kabookalu]

I appreciate your effort to write so much, but there is a thing. I watched every Rockets game last season and this season. And there is another thing - I REALLY didn't like Harden's game 3-4 years ago. But last year and especially this season I converted. He or Curry should be MVP. I lean towards Harden because he is a brain and engine for the Rockets. I think playing in 2014 WC influenced some improvements in his game. I don't read GB, for Rockets stuff I check Clutchfans.
I hoped this season will be special for Raptors, but lately I'm disappointed. Almost every Rockets game is nice, fun, interesting, exciting (and they have some serious injury problems). Raptors games - struggle, constant chucking, inept coaching. Not to the potential.

In other threads I posted how effective our highest scorers are, don't want to repeat myself. Just DD is last in the whole NBA in adjusted FG%. That's pretty bad.

I think him or Curry is the MVP too, though your assessment of his style of play seems off. You make it sound like he's an SG version of Steve Nash. He's looking for his own shot just as much as any scorer in the league. When I think of Harden I don't think of someone who assesses the floor and tries finding what's best for the team, he's finding what's best for himself first and foremost.