Nerlens Noel Thread

Post #601 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Sun Mar 8, 2015 10:54 pm

By not feeding him the ball and taking it out of his hands? We want Noel to be competent enough that defenses have to at least be aware of him on offense, but ideally that would be the extent that he's involved. Allow him to rely on hustle and above the rim baskets for his points, he shouldn't be a prominent facet of our offense, just allow him to anchor our defense.

Sixerant226 · Post #602 » by **Sixerant226** » Sun Mar 8, 2015 11:48 pm

I know foot work can be improved by conducting agility drills. I know this first hand because I remember Roy Hibbert first year at Gtown. Let's just say, I was a sorry look. However, they worked on his foot work during the off seasons and the results where night and day. So, this is an area where the training staff can work with Noel. Now, we it comes to improving hand coordination, you got me there.. Lol

LloydFree · Post #603 » by **LloydFree** » Sun Mar 8, 2015 11:57 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:By not feeding him the ball and taking it out of his hands? We want Noel to be competent enough that defenses have to at least be aware of him on offense, but ideally that would be the extent that he's involved. Allow him to rely on hustle and above the rim baskets for his points, he shouldn't be a prominent facet of our offense, just allow him to anchor our defense.

That doesn't correct the weakness (bad hands). He'd still have the weakness. The team would just become proficient in hiding it, by playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.

The point is his shooting isn't his only weakness, as the other poster suggested.

Post #604 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 12:25 am

LloydFree wrote:
CoreyGallagher wrote:By not feeding him the ball and taking it out of his hands? We want Noel to be competent enough that defenses have to at least be aware of him on offense, but ideally that would be the extent that he's involved. Allow him to rely on hustle and above the rim baskets for his points, he shouldn't be a prominent facet of our offense, just allow him to anchor our defense.

That doesn't correct the weakness (bad hands). He'd still have the weakness. The team would just become proficient in hiding it, by playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.

The point is his shooting isn't his only weakness, as the other poster suggested.

Wouldn't be playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end. He could still be used within the offense, especially with his passing, just when it comes to his scoring opportunities they should be within flow of the game.

Every player has weaknesses and not all of them are correctable. The Spurs exemplify getting the most out of their players, players that certainly do have their flaws.

FreesFro · Post #605 » by **FreesFro** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 2:04 am

I don't know. His hands look a hell of a lot better in Jan/Feb then they did in Nov/Dec. He couldn't catch a thing those first two months. The last two months there were passes he caught that I never thought he'd catch.

marcush · Post #606 » by **marcush** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 2:20 am

FreesFro wrote:I don't know. His hands look a hell of a lot better in Jan/Feb then they did in Nov/Dec. He couldn't catch a thing those first two months. The last two months there were passes he caught that I never thought he'd catch.

Yeh, I don't watch every game religiously, but that would be my impression also.

His evolution offensively will be very interesting. Im willing to give young, undersized kids at least 1 season grace before I make a call on their efficiency. Sometimes they just figure it out over the off season. Is it just a confidence thing, does he need some size, or is it an inherent deficiency such as the dreaded stone hands.

With the way his defence is developing, I think he probably only needs to be a neutral on offence to earn a massive payday and be the type who can anchor a contender in the mould of a Noah.

Post #607 » by **Sixerscan** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 2:38 am

Nerlens' hands are weird. He's legitimately one of the best in the league at poking the ball out to get steals and deflections. He just has trouble catching the ball. But he's absolutely gotten significantly better at that over this season, so I don't get why anyone would think it can't be improved.

He also has this bad habit of bringing the ball too low. Like that highlight layup he had last night was cool, but if he keeps that ball high he probably could have just dunked it or at least laid it in a lot easier and not had to worry about pulling off the fancy finish.

76ciology · Post #608 » by **76ciology** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 4:13 am

Noel's hands has shown improvement and he doesn't have small hands like Kwame, which is a fundamental flaw.

I also think Noel can be a good mid range shooter in the futurE. I envision Noel as a triple threat player off PnR, where he can use his floater when he drives, pass or hit a mid range jumper.

Sounds funny, but I thought he has shown confidence with his shooting when he can't help but to laugh when he missed those fts at the closing minutes of the game against the Hawks. He has also improved his follow thru where. Noel's shooting mechanics will always be ugly, but it seems he will have improved touch and confidence in the future.

I'm high on Noel because of the improvement he has shown. And because I value guys who can dominate defensive end on the floor. He can steal like Rondo with blocking like Ibaka.

You can always find good players on both ends. But it's rare to find guys who can dominate a game. And when he becomes a net positive on the offensive end (what does it take? Scoring at point blank, shooting fts at a good % and shooting uncontested jumpers?), I'm sure he'd atleast be all-star.

marcush · Post #609 » by **marcush** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 4:33 am

76ciology wrote:Noel's hands has shown improvement and he doesn't have small hands like Bynum, which is a fundamental flaw.

Kwame?

76ciology · Post #610 » by **76ciology** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 4:57 am

marcush wrote:
76ciology wrote:Noel's hands has shown improvement and he doesn't have small hands like Bynum, which is a fundamental flaw.

Kwame?

Sorry I meant Kwame. Mixed up after expecting Bynum to suit up for us but ended up with Bynum's sensei.

ImChillin01 · Post #611 » by **ImChillin01** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 8:10 am

https://twitter.com/MaxRappaport/status ... 6058892288

Amazing how Marcus Smart won Rookie of the Month. Noel already elite defensive big man as rookie. Unfortunately its gone unnoticed but the real fans know whats sup.

76ciology · Post #612 » by **76ciology** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 9:15 am

Anyone knows why Noel is posting low WAR and RPM numbers? BTW, RoCo's are quite impressive.

Kolkmania · Post #613 » by **Kolkmania** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 12:09 pm

76ciology wrote:Anyone knows why Noel is posting low WAR and RPM numbers? BTW, RoCo's are quite impressive.

WAR is based on RPM and nobody knows the formula behind RPM (besides ESPN), so no. I absolutely hate RPM.

FreesFro · Post #614 » by **FreesFro** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 2:35 pm

Since All-Star game Nerlens leads league in blocks AND steals. Sick.

76ciology · Post #615 » by **76ciology** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 3:21 pm

Kolkmania wrote:
76ciology wrote:Anyone knows why Noel is posting low WAR and RPM numbers? BTW, RoCo's are quite impressive.

WAR is based on RPM and nobody knows the formula behind RPM (besides ESPN), so no. I absolutely hate RPM.

Slightly related question, what's the difference between BPM and RPM?

Ericb5 · Post #616 » by **Ericb5** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 3:41 pm

FreesFro wrote:Since All-Star game Nerlens leads league in blocks AND steals. Sick.

Wow, that's awesome!

Post #617 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 3:42 pm

76ciology wrote:
Kolkmania wrote:
76ciology wrote:Anyone knows why Noel is posting low WAR and RPM numbers? BTW, RoCo's are quite impressive.

WAR is based on RPM and nobody knows the formula behind RPM (besides ESPN), so no. I absolutely hate RPM.

Slightly related question, what's the difference between BPM and RPM?

BPM is Box Plus/Minus, RPM is Real Plus/Minus. Link below explains BPM in depth and mentions how exactly it's calculated and what's all considered, it also mentions about it's derivation from APM. They're actually similar in their foundations, however, whereas BPM favors metrical, RPM does subjective variables, the issue is that ESPN is not transparent about what those variables are or how they are figured.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

76ciology · Post #618 » by **76ciology** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 3:53 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Kolkmania wrote:
WAR is based on RPM and nobody knows the formula behind RPM (besides ESPN), so no. I absolutely hate RPM.

Slightly related question, what's the difference between BPM and RPM?

BPM is Box Plus/Minus, RPM is Real Plus/Minus. Link below explains BPM in depth and mentions how exactly it's calculated and what's all considered, it also mentions about it's derivation from APM. They're actually similar in their foundations, however, whereas BPM favors metrical, RPM does subjective variables, the issue is that ESPN is not transparent about what those variables are or how they are figured.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

And to my point.. Because seems like BPM and RPM is close to same by definition. But the figures between' Noel and Wiggins' RPM vs BPM seems like extreme opposites.

Post #619 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 3:59 pm

We'll never know because there isn't anywhere on the internet that you can find the formula for RPM, we know what it's derived from, but it's using a metric that requires substantial sample size to drown out the noise while also introducing unknown. I've tried to get an idea of some variables by going down the splits by position, the contrasts are weird. Frontcourt players cannot have high ORPM, whereas backcourt players cannot have high DRPM, it sort of evens out at wing.

76ciology · Post #620 » by **76ciology** » Mon Mar 9, 2015 4:19 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:We'll never know because there isn't anywhere on the internet that you can find the formula for RPM, we know what it's derived from, but it's using a metric that requires substantial sample size to drown out the noise while also introducing unknown. I've tried to get an idea of some variables by going down the splits by position, the contrasts are weird.

Yeah, its weird. Been figuring why the huge contrast. Espn numbers seems to not like Noel.

Frontcourt players cannot have high ORPM, whereas backcourt players cannot have high DRPM, it sort of evens out at wing.

I agree to this based on my eye test observation. That's why I'm not a big fan of Iggy and his defense despite the numbers.