Nets/Jazz PG: Goodbye Playoffs

[MrDollarBills]

Boone was slow, and softer than baby ****.

There are a lot of players that can't create their own shot in the NBA, it doesn't make them similar.

[Prokorov]

The TV revenue will most likely raise the salary cap to 90 million giving us 65 million with Deron + rookie contracts. We can easily stretch him out. The cap hit won't even matter and Deron's 23 million would actually be the league average for double figure salary. So, It's now impossible for someone to take him just to reach their cap floor.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. Once Joe's contract expires next year and we stretch D-Will, we'll have cap space out the ass.

The focus should be on developing the younger players to have a group of good roleplayers in place once we have money to overpay for free agents.

Plumlee, Brown, and Thad are guys I definitely think are worth keeping. Bojan deserves at least another year to see if this guy can adapt to the NBA game. CJ I'd like to see again for another year to see if he can improve, he has shown flashes of being a guy that can play.

Karasev can kick rocks.

thats where i am at as well. except for thad... even at a discount im not sure id keep him. I love the dude but im not sure id want to be paying him 6-8 million a year. plums/markel/cj/thames im all in on and bogs if he can improve next season.

[Prokorov]

Plumlee is one of the good guys.
If anything its my D.Will bias along with interest in a quick PG and mild intrigue with Stuaskas...along with all the other bonuses.

As for Plumlee Boone..
Of course Plumlee is better but...
A. He is closer to Boone than Jordan or Chandler

no... he isnt. he is much closer to the jordan/chandler types. the ones that finish lobs, the ones that get offense on rolls to the basket, the ones that convert everything at the rim. he isnt anything like boone. boone didnt play above the rim, he did nothing in the pick and roll, he did nothing on the break. look how many dunks plumlee has. more this year then boone had in his 4 years with the nets combined.

B. He's much more athletic which helps his offensive edge...but neither can create their own shot and shot high percentages from almost exclusively shots right at the rim.

not being able to create your own shot doesnt make you the same as someone else who cant create their own shot. plumlee might not create offense, but he gets himself in position where you can easily get him the ball and where he will finish. Boone wasnt a guy who could put himself in that position...

as i mentioned, reggie evans wasnt creating his own shot either. i dont think he is similar to plumlee either.

What is absurd is to act like there aren't similarities.

because they were nothing alike. sure they had things similar like they were both males and both had 2 arms and 2 legs. but thier games were nothing alike. point out neither could create their own shot doesnt really draw much of a comparison. johan petro couldnt create his own shot. that doesnt make him the same as andre drummond.

i cant imagine anyone who has watched boone and plumlee conclude that they are even somewhat similar

[Trader_Joe]

Plumlee is one of the good guys.
If anything its my D.Will bias along with interest in a quick PG and mild intrigue with Stuaskas...along with all the other bonuses.

As for Plumlee Boone..
Of course Plumlee is better but...
A. He is closer to Boone than Jordan or Chandler

no... he isnt. he is much closer to the jordan/chandler types. the ones that finish lobs, the ones that get offense on rolls to the basket, the ones that convert everything at the rim. he isnt anything like boone. boone didnt play above the rim, he did nothing in the pick and roll, he did nothing on the break. look how many dunks plumlee has. more this year then boone had in his 4 years with the nets combined.

B. He's much more athletic which helps his offensive edge...but neither can create their own shot and shot high percentages from almost exclusively shots right at the rim.

not being able to create your own shot doesnt make you the same as someone else who cant create their own shot. plumlee might not create offense, but he gets himself in position where you can easily get him the ball and where he will finish. Boone wasnt a guy who could put himself in that position...

as i mentioned, reggie evans wasnt creating his own shot either. i dont think he is similar to plumlee either.

What is absurd is to act like there aren't similarities.

because they were nothing alike. sure they had things similar like they were both males and both had 2 arms and 2 legs. but thier games were nothing alike. point out neither could create their own shot doesnt really draw much of a comparison. johan petro couldnt create his own shot. that doesnt make him the same as andre drummond.

i cant imagine anyone who has watched boone and plumlee conclude that they are even somewhat similar

Wow...if I didnt know better I d wonder if you saw Boone play. Like I said..take away the athleticism..which limits lobs, they still score in the same way and were similar defenders and rebounders with similar size. They were both Nets...both drafted in the 20s, both with NCAA championship and defensive reps to a certain extent. They were both 20mpg big men that could be a serviceable starter or back up. Again this was Boone for at least a year and should have been more. It's a rather easy, obvious and relatable comparison.

But I do know better. I say black, you say white and this will go on all day and night.

Really I get it...in general...I don't ascribe to the Jack/Hollins/Plumlee/heart+effort love fest which seems to be a prereq to post here. I'll keep my "dissenting" opinion to myself.

[Paradise]

Plumlee is one of the good guys.
If anything its my D.Will bias along with interest in a quick PG and mild intrigue with Stuaskas...along with all the other bonuses.

As for Plumlee Boone..
Of course Plumlee is better but...
A. He is closer to Boone than Jordan or Chandler

no... he isnt. he is much closer to the jordan/chandler types. the ones that finish lobs, the ones that get offense on rolls to the basket, the ones that convert everything at the rim. he isnt anything like boone. boone didnt play above the rim, he did nothing in the pick and roll, he did nothing on the break. look how many dunks plumlee has. more this year then boone had in his 4 years with the nets combined.

B. He's much more athletic which helps his offensive edge...but neither can create their own shot and shot high percentages from almost exclusively shots right at the rim.

not being able to create your own shot doesnt make you the same as someone else who cant create their own shot. plumlee might not create offense, but he gets himself in position where you can easily get him the ball and where he will finish. Boone wasnt a guy who could put himself in that position...

as i mentioned, reggie evans wasnt creating his own shot either. i dont think he is similar to plumlee either.

What is absurd is to act like there aren't similarities.

because they were nothing alike. sure they had things similar like they were both males and both had 2 arms and 2 legs. but thier games were nothing alike. point out neither could create their own shot doesnt really draw much of a comparison. johan petro couldnt create his own shot. that doesnt make him the same as andre drummond.

i cant imagine anyone who has watched boone and plumlee conclude that they are even somewhat similar

Wow...if I didnt know better I d wonder if you saw Boone play. Like I said..take away the athleticism..which limits lobs, they still score in the same way and were similar defenders and rebounders with similar size. They were both Nets...both drafted in the 20s, both with NCAA championship and defensive reps to a certain extent. They were both 20mpg big men that could be a serviceable starter or back up. Again this was Boone for at least a year and should have been more. It's a rather easy, obvious and relatable comparison.

But I do know better. I say black, you say white and this will go on all day and night.

Really I get it...in general...I don't ascribe to the Jack/Hollins/Plumlee/heart+effort love fest which seems to be a prereq to post here. I'll keep my "dissenting" opinion to myself.

When did Josh Boone ever rank 3rd in FG%, 5th in FTA, 23rd in assists among Centers? Plumlee averaged 14/8 when Brook was injured. He's Top 20 in Double Doubles. What 'serviceable below average' big man has done that in a Nets uniform? Certainly not some scrub like Boone.

Plumlee has shown no reason why he can't improve because he has already improved across the board this season. Plumlee is no different to DeAndre Jordan prior to Doc Rivers.

[Prokorov]

Wow...if I didnt know better I d wonder if you saw Boone play. Like I said..take away the athleticism..which limits lobs, they still score in the same way and were similar defenders and rebounders with similar size. They were both Nets...both drafted in the 20s, both with NCAA championship and defensive reps to a certain extent. They were both 20mpg big men that could be a serviceable starter or back up. Again this was Boone for at least a year and should have been more. It's a rather easy, obvious and relatable comparison.

But I do know better. I say black, you say white and this will go on all day and night.

Really I get it...in general...I don't ascribe to the Jack/Hollins/Plumlee/heart+effort love fest which seems to be a prereq to post here. I'll keep my "dissenting" opinion to myself.

you say "take away the athleticism" like that is some ho-hum minor thing. take away dwights athleticism and what is he? Deandre's? Scoring in the same way doesnt make them similar. just because both score mostly on layups and dunks doesnt make them similar... being able to frequently get those dunks is what makes plumlee valuable. 99.9% of centers in the NBA can dunk. not all of them can get in position to dunk often though. Plumlee is great and finding the openings in the paint, at beating opposing bigs down the floor in transition, at rolling to the basket, and being active around the rim. Josh boone was none of those things.

Plumlee gets to the FT line a ton, because teams know once he gets it in the paint its an automatic 2 if they dont and because he is constantly putting himself in position where he has the ball going to the rim. i think he is like top 5 or 10 in FTA. when was that ever the case with boone?

This has nothing to do with any of the nonsense you posted above, it has to do with josh boone and plumlee being absolutely nothing alike as players. Boone isnt very quick, isnt super athletic, doesnt really get out on the break, and doesnt really play above the rim. He didnt dunk/score at the rim nearly as much as plumlee does.

boone was someone who scored almost by accident. if he was under the rim and the ball found him he would score. plumlee gets into spaces where he is open making it easy for him to be found. plumlee creates opprotunities without the ball by getting open around the rim and by having superior athleticism

I was one of the biggest plumlee haters here...i was REALLY pissed when we drafted him(check tha t draft thread, i destryoed him in it). but he proved me wrong and im a fan of his now. but I have no real attachment to him, if we traded him for a draft pick i wouldnt bat an eye. but dumping him in a salary move in our situation would be a billy king special and a waste of an asset

[MrDollarBills]

Plumlee is one of the good guys.
If anything its my D.Will bias along with interest in a quick PG and mild intrigue with Stuaskas...along with all the other bonuses.

As for Plumlee Boone..
Of course Plumlee is better but...
A. He is closer to Boone than Jordan or Chandler

no... he isnt. he is much closer to the jordan/chandler types. the ones that finish lobs, the ones that get offense on rolls to the basket, the ones that convert everything at the rim. he isnt anything like boone. boone didnt play above the rim, he did nothing in the pick and roll, he did nothing on the break. look how many dunks plumlee has. more this year then boone had in his 4 years with the nets combined.

B. He's much more athletic which helps his offensive edge...but neither can create their own shot and shot high percentages from almost exclusively shots right at the rim.

not being able to create your own shot doesnt make you the same as someone else who cant create their own shot. plumlee might not create offense, but he gets himself in position where you can easily get him the ball and where he will finish. Boone wasnt a guy who could put himself in that position...

as i mentioned, reggie evans wasnt creating his own shot either. i dont think he is similar to plumlee either.

What is absurd is to act like there aren't similarities.

because they were nothing alike. sure they had things similar like they were both males and both had 2 arms and 2 legs. but thier games were nothing alike. point out neither could create their own shot doesnt really draw much of a comparison. johan petro couldnt create his own shot. that doesnt make him the same as andre drummond.

i cant imagine anyone who has watched boone and plumlee conclude that they are even somewhat similar

Wow...if I didnt know better I d wonder if you saw Boone play. Like I said..take away the athleticism..which limits lobs, they still score in the same way and were similar defenders and rebounders with similar size. They were both Nets...both drafted in the 20s, both with NCAA championship and defensive reps to a certain extent. They were both 20mpg big men that could be a serviceable starter or back up. Again this was Boone for at least a year and should have been more. It's a rather easy, obvious and relatable comparison.

But I do know better. I say black, you say white and this will go on all day and night.

Really I get it...in general...I don't ascribe to the Jack/Hollins/Plumlee/heart+effort love fest which seems to be a prereq to post here. I'll keep my "dissenting" opinion to myself.

This is a joke. If I didn't know better, I'd say that either you never have watched Boone play, or you're throwing his name out there in a baseless manner in a shoddy attempt to piss on Plumlee because you have an agenda.

[MrDollarBills]

TAKE AWAY DEANDRE JORDAN'S ATHLETICISM...AND HE'D BE JASON COLLINS....

[Prokorov]

When did Josh Boone ever rank 3rd in FG%, 5th in FTA, 23rd in assists among Centers? Plumlee averaged 14/8 when Brook was injured. He's Top 20 in Double Doubles. What 'serviceable below average' big man has done that in a Nets uniform? Certainly not some scrub like Boone.

Plumlee has shown no reason why he can't improve because he has already improved across the board this season. Plumlee is no different to DeAndre Jordan prior to Doc Rivers.

Yea, im not saying plumlee becomes Jordan or some all-star but i mean plumlee has a similar skill set and plays a similar style and not long ago Deandre was a not so special player who sucked on D and had some javale mcgee type moments

Deandre's first 2 years:
4.3 ppg/4.5 rpg/1.1 bpg 14.1 PER
4.8 ppg/5.0 rpg/0.9 bpg 12.7 PER


Deandre at 23/24 years old:

23 years old(4thNBA season): 7.4 ppg/8.3rpg/1.9 bpg 16.4 PER
24 years old(5th NBA season): 8.8 ppg/7.2 rpg/1.4 bpg/17.2 PER

Masons first 2 years (23 and 24 years old):

7.4 ppg /4.4 rpg/0.8 bpg 19.0 PER
10.0ppg/6.7 rpg/0.9 bpg 19.1 PER

it wasnt until Doc came over and until his 6th and 7th NBA season at ages 25/26 that he really turned into a really good player. i see now reason why plumlee once he turnes ages 25 and 26 cant improve on what he is now. plumlees numbers at 23/24 are comporable/better then deandres(in less minutes). and he has never played with a PG liek chris paul

[Trader_Joe]

no... he isnt. he is much closer to the jordan/chandler types. the ones that finish lobs, the ones that get offense on rolls to the basket, the ones that convert everything at the rim. he isnt anything like boone. boone didnt play above the rim, he did nothing in the pick and roll, he did nothing on the break. look how many dunks plumlee has. more this year then boone had in his 4 years with the nets combined.



not being able to create your own shot doesnt make you the same as someone else who cant create their own shot. plumlee might not create offense, but he gets himself in position where you can easily get him the ball and where he will finish. Boone wasnt a guy who could put himself in that position...

as i mentioned, reggie evans wasnt creating his own shot either. i dont think he is similar to plumlee either.




because they were nothing alike. sure they had things similar like they were both males and both had 2 arms and 2 legs. but thier games were nothing alike. point out neither could create their own shot doesnt really draw much of a comparison. johan petro couldnt create his own shot. that doesnt make him the same as andre drummond.

i cant imagine anyone who has watched boone and plumlee conclude that they are even somewhat similar

Wow...if I didnt know better I d wonder if you saw Boone play. Like I said..take away the athleticism..which limits lobs, they still score in the same way and were similar defenders and rebounders with similar size. They were both Nets...both drafted in the 20s, both with NCAA championship and defensive reps to a certain extent. They were both 20mpg big men that could be a serviceable starter or back up. Again this was Boone for at least a year and should have been more. It's a rather easy, obvious and relatable comparison.

But I do know better. I say black, you say white and this will go on all day and night.

Really I get it...in general...I don't ascribe to the Jack/Hollins/Plumlee/heart+effort love fest which seems to be a prereq to post here. I'll keep my "dissenting" opinion to myself.

This is a joke. If I didn't know better, I'd say that either you never have watched Boone play, or you're throwing his name out there in a baseless manner in a shoddy attempt to piss on Plumlee because you have an agenda.

You got me.

Too funny.... this board is by far the most sensitive/biased/agenda driven Nets related board I have ever seen...so much worse than that other site.

Don't worry, I'll stick to the trade board. I'm clearly not wanted here as every post is going to get singled out by the big 3, because I don't buy into the group think being force fed on here.

[F3LON]

I wonder why Lopez's biggest fan wants to trade Plumlee?

[MrDollarBills]

Joe I actually enjoy our differences in opinion. I just think that comparing Plumlee to Boone is ridiculous.

[Paradise]

It's just a difference of opinion. You are just underestimating how well Mason has played with no consistent PGs and the worst SG rotation in the league.

Mason

December: 12.9 ppg / 8.4 rebs / 1.4 asts
January: 13.5 ppg / 7.3 rebs / .665 TS%

Boone in 09'

November: 5.1 ppg / 5.9 rebs / .495 TS%
December: 5.2 ppg / 6.5 rebs /.478 TS%

Both averaged the highest total of minutes throughout the season in those respective months. Plumlee would be alot more effective if we didn't have two Jay Cutlers in our backcourt. The defensive side is the only aspect of his game that will make or break his tenure with the Nets, IMO.

[MrDollarBills]

Agreed. My main critique on Mason is that he needs to get stronger because bigger centers abuse him, and that he needs to clean up his rebounding technique because with some good fundamental boxing out he can easily grab about 2 more boards on average imo. He seems to be a very hard worker and is quite mature and coachable so I believe that in time these issues will be fixed.

I don't really care that he can't shoot. That's not his game. Can he work on it to the point where a mid range jumper becomes a weapon? Sure. but I like him around the rim, so a focus on improving his FTs is more necessary imo.

[Prokorov]

You got me.

Too funny.... this board is by far the most sensitive/biased/agenda driven Nets related board I have ever seen...so much worse than that other site.

Don't worry, I'll stick to the trade board. I'm clearly not wanted here as every post is going to get singled out by the big 3, because I don't buy into the group think being force fed on here.

This is such a cop out.

First off, me and paradise disagree on most topics, i argue with him all the time. several here disagree with me on plumlee, and arent high on him. if anything the board is more pro lopez then plumlee, or its probably closer to 50/50.

Second, if you discuss something here everyone is fine hearing all opinions. but when you say something like plumlee is similar to josh boone, you cant really be upset when people call that out as being out of left field.

[Prokorov]

Agreed. My main critique on Mason is that he needs to get stronger because bigger centers abuse him, and that he needs to clean up his rebounding technique because with some good fundamental boxing out he can easily grab about 2 more boards on average imo. He seems to be a very hard worker and is quite mature and coachable so I believe that in time these issues will be fixed.

I don't really care that he can't shoot. That's not his game. Can he work on it to the point where a mid range jumper becomes a weapon? Sure. but I like him around the rim, so a focus on improving his FTs is more necessary imo.

Yea, his biggest issue is playing defense without fouling, and alot of that has to do with muscle. if he gets a bit bigger i think that would help... adding 5 or 10 pounds shouldnt hurt his athleticism and could go a long ways to help him down low. I think playing with a better PG and with better defensive teammates in general would do alot for him.

either way, im not super attached to him, but if we do trade him, it better be to get something, not to get rid of something

[Keith Van Horn]

If the right deal presents itself and we can unload Deron and get a better PG, but Mason has to be included, I would easily do it.

I'm glad King didn't pull the trigger on the Collison deal b/c that wouldn't have been much better.

But say if we could get Ty Lawson and JJ Hickson in the offseason for Deron and Mason, I would do that.

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah if you're talking like Ty Lawson sure.