Let's talk about the 2011 Finals

[Dr Spaceman]

But Lebron and Wade were very similar players in 11, so the question is, why did they chose to execute this strategy on Lebron James and not Wade?

I think a lot of the posts in this thread have been hitting on some good answers to this question so far. I like the notion that they knew James was always going to make the "right" play in the moment, even if it reduced the overall long-term payoff. IMO Wade has actually always been a tremendous off-ball player, and he got knocked unfairly for that during his peak years. His activity level was always really high, and he just had a knack for getting key OREBS, well-timed backdoor cuts, attacking off curls, etc.

But anyway, I think Dallas knew that LeBron wasn't willing to shoot Miami out of games, even if they were going to lose anyway. By forcing him to the top of the key and walling him off immediately inside the arc, they effectively cut his floor in half, forcing him to either take long J after long J (which he did to start game 6) or just pass to a teammate (which he did most of the series). LeBron also immediately lost confidence in the jumper when it stopped falling, and would go entirely passive for huge stretches when this happened.

And I'm not trying to downplay Wade, but even in 2011 it should've been clear LeBron was a better player. I think from this perspective choosing to focus on Wade was a good strategy, even though Wade was a superstar in his own right. Miami was always a pick your poison team that season, but Dallas found the antidote for one and the rest of the team was so thin they could survive the other. Wade definitely wasn't guarded off-ball the same way James was, and as a result he could get good post-up position when he wanted. He saw plenty of hard help when he attacked, but nothing too brutal. He was definitely the best player in this series IMO.

But I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as well. BTW- welcome to the board, and excellent first post.

[Hornet Mania]

I'm not sure I totally buy that Dallas chose to let Wade get his, I'll have to go back and watch the games but at the time (I was rooting for Dirk/Kidd to get a ring) it sure seemed like Wade was powering through double-teams to an infuriating degree. It would also be strange historically for the Mavs, a team Wade murdered in 06, to make the rational decision to force him to go supernova in order to win the series(although Carlisle wasn't there at the time, so maybe not).

Fatigue may have played a role for Lebron, but he looked awesome in the Bulls series. I do think it was more mental, confusion, uncertainty, outside pressure, than anything else even though that sounds like a Skip Bayless rationale. Put it this way, I distinctly remember seeing Lebron backing down Barea and being totally confident that was about to backfire miserably. That simply should not happen. Lebron was so clearly out of sorts that by the latter stages of the series I don't think anything aside from an extended break and self-reflection were going to solve the issues. I know it's subjective and not objective, but we're talking about an absolutely historic level of pressure on one man coupled with a historic hatred for a "bad guy" team. Lebron is not a robot, he's a human being, he uses social media as much as anyone in his age group, he absolutely knows the tide had turned against him. I don't think he was immune. He tried everything (except forcing it, as has been discussed) and nothing was working. We've discussed the purely tactical reason for that, but I have never seen a generational talent seem so helpless. Even the "Tragic" Johnson 84 Finals was not this bad overall. I think by the midpoint of the series as he realized things were going against him he stared into that abyss and flinched.

[Dr Spaceman]

Put it this way, I distinctly remember seeing Lebron backing down Barea and being totally confident that was about to backfire miserably.

I remember exactly the play you're talking about, and even years later after seeing it on film that was shocking. I believe it was the 3rd quarter of game 6. Barea took an elbow to the face and drew an offensive foul.

His post game looked stiff and brutal all series. He just wasn't comfortable posting up anywhere but the low block. He actually had a really nice drop step on Marion in game 6, but anything that requires him to dribble and actually back guys down he failed miserably.

But yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I had to rewind I was so shocked by that.

[tone wone]

Long time lurker here. Long post...

I've watched that 2011 series enough to "almost" have no emotional reaction to it. But, there's a moment early in game 1 that gets me every damn time. At the 3:26 mark of the 1st qt, Joel Anthony picks up his 2nd foul and up off the bench is Juwan Howard. Didn't play a second in the ECFs but because Joel Anthony picks up a 2nd foul while Bosh is on the bench resting Miami is playing this lineup...

C Howard
PF Haslem
SF James
SG Wade
PG Bibby

Its as if the gameplan was to get Howard minutes. For reasons that defy logic, Spo absolutely refused to go small in this series.

Miami actually had a really effective small-ball lineup that 1st season. Bosh/Bron/Jones/Wade+whoever at PG. Weren't particularly good defensively but were awesome on offense. This lineup was very effective against Philly and Boston earlier in playoffs but after getting smacked in game 1 against Chicago, that lineup was put on hold. The rebounding disadvantage was just too much. Here's the thing, Philly, Boston AND most importantly Dallas were all poor rebounding teams. Dallas had rebounding issues throughout that entire postseason. OKC killed them on the glass in the WCFs, hell even Miami had success on the offensive glass in Game 1 against. Simply put there was zero reasons for Miami to completely go away from small-ball.

I believe most of Lebrons issues in this series are rooted in this baffling decision

What people forget about this series was that it was slugfest. The last 2gms were strong offensively (gm.5 especially) but through the first 4 games both teams averaged less than 90pts & shot below 43%. It was ugly. No real flow and only small burst of offense. While Carlise tinkered with his lineup to try and free up his offense, Spo was content on grinding it out. Most don't realize how hard things were for Miami offensively that entire postseason. Of course playing 2 defenses the calibre of '11 Boston & CHI is gonna be hard but the Heat shot 30% from 3 that entire postseaon (37% in the regular season). A modern NBA team came with 2 gms of winning a title with basically no spacing to speak of. Bibby's struggles had a lot to do with this but damn it was just so hard for them to sustain offense. Playing 2 bigs exclusively, along with their struggles from 3, was open invitation for Dallas to overload (almost recklessly) with zero repercussions. Throughout the series Dallas is leaving the weakside wide open and Miami couldn't take advantage of it.

The thing thats frustrating after the fact is that initially I dont think Dallas actually "confused" James. I believe both he and Wade knew exactly what Dallas was doing them. When Lebron has the ball on wing or up top, the Mavs overload leaving the weakside open. Lebron sees this and gets the ball out quick (infamous hot potatoe passes). Wade sees this and is ready to attack as soon as the ball is swung too him to take advantage of Dallas being in rotation. Lebron's actually failing in this series.... when the roles were reverse (usually in the 4th) and he's weakside while Wade is being blitzed, instead of attacking, he holds the ball and allows Dallas to reset. I think this was the main reason Miami just died offensively throughout the series in the 4th. Games 2-4 were horror shows. But overall, the real problem was, they never made the Mavs get out that defense.

Lebron got NOTHING clean in the halfcourt after game 1. Its why his shot attempts were so low. Once the Mavs got their turnovers under control, he couldn't score. Go and watch game 5. He scores 8pts the previous game. The whole world is crapping on him. He says beforehand that Game 5 is "the biggest game of my life" and he only takes 18 shots. Its not because he wasn't engaged. Simply put, unless he wanted to take contested 20fters he wasn't gonna get many shots up.

[Orin]

First, thank you for your kind words Dr Spaceman, I'm really enjoying the discussion. It's refreshing to have a true discussion about Jame's play in this series.

IMO Wade has actually always been a tremendous off-ball player, and he got knocked unfairly for that during his peak years.

What do you mean? While I agree that he always was a great, underrated off-ball player, I don't really remember him being knocked for it.

But anyway, I think Dallas knew that LeBron wasn't willing to shoot Miami out of games, even if they were going to lose anyway.

That's a very valid point, and something he should be blamed for IMO. Because James knew that he needed to be more agressive. The coaching staff and his teammates as well. Here is a quote from the infamous game 4 8pts output:
"I've got to do a better job of being more assertive offensively," said James, who nonetheless contributed nine rebounds and seven assists. "I'm confident in my ability. It's just about going out there and knocking them down."
But then, even if did attempt 19 and 15 shots, he only had 2 and 4 FTA for the next 2 games. That's inacceptable for someone with James ability to draw fouls.

Miami was always a pick your poison team that season, but Dallas found the antidote for one and the rest of the team was so thin they could survive the other.

I think that sum's it up pretty well. But the fact is that an "andidote" WAS found for James but not for Wade (and, again, they would have loved to found one). So it seems kind of strange for me that you say that it should have been clear James was the better player of the two.

I do think it was more mental, confusion, uncertainty, outside pressure, than anything else even though that sounds like a Skip Bayless rationale.

I mostly agree. The difference with a Skip Bayless "analysis" however is that we give Dallas total credit for putting James in that position, and try to understand how they did it instead of just saying "he chocked". It's clear that he wasn't himself.

James is a player that likes to have fun in the basketball court (not saying this is a bad thing, or that he doesn't want to win as much as anyone). And in 11', like you said, the Heat did not and faced an all-time level of pressure.
I think it was after the OKC title, but James said that during the 11's summer, Chris Paul told him something along those lines "It wouldn't have felt right if you guys had won. You were playing with anger. It was you against the world." and even if he simply tossed it aside at that moment, he now agreed.

And about the "letting Wade get his" : The thing is, simply throwing double team at Wade when he has the ball is basically the same as "letting him get his" for me. Prime Wade had one of the very, very best double-teams breaking ability of all time.
And we also shouldn't forget that he was hurt for game 5 and 6, limiting his ability to impact the game.

[Brenice]

It wasn't Dallas. LeBron himself said he was disappointed in how he played during those Finals. He should have not let the Mavs dictate how he played. He should have enforced his will on the series. He was determined to not let the same thing happen in 2012. He worked on his post up game in the off-seasn and it had improved and he used in against OKC. But posting up goes against LeBron's natural instinct and sometimes it requires wrestling down low with guys as strong as or stronger than LeBron, or as tall as or taller than LeBron. When LeBron doesn't have the size advantage, he can always face up. But when he loses confidence in his jumper, he becomes hesitant. The Spurs had the big front line so he shouldn't be posting much against them. OKC, he was posting Durant a lot. Dallas didn't have a huge front line, but his post up game was weak in 2011. So he was relegated to standing on the perimeter and not shooting. LeBron is doubled all the time. ALL THE TIME. To think old Kidd, old Marion, and Tyson Chandler should be some deterrent keeping LeBron away from facing up, and attacking the rim is an excuse. Tyson Chandler is very good defensively, but he ain't Ben Wallace, he ain't Alonzo, Ewing, Howard, Mutombo, Hakeem, etc.

The reason LeBron played sub-par is all on LeBron. PERIOD

[SideshowBob]

I remember at the time of the series, ElGee was tracking possessions and observed a sharp decrease in LeBron's defensive effectiveness over the whole of the six-game Finals series relative to the defensive dominance he had displayed against Chicago and Boston in the East Playoffs. IIRC, more mistakes, less effective closeouts on shooters, less penetrations stopped. It jibed with what myself and others saw via an admittedly less studious eyetest, e.i., his defensive effort waned in the Finals. It didn't seem consistent with his work against Chicago and Boston (arguably his two best series ever, particularly the CHI series), so it added to the shock of LBJ playing so poorly. I wish I could find that post.

Here you are

And here's his 2011 Finals EV recap

[tone wone]

I remember at the time of the series, ElGee was tracking possessions and observed a sharp decrease in LeBron's defensive effectiveness over the whole of the six-game Finals series relative to the defensive dominance he had displayed against Chicago and Boston in the East Playoffs. IIRC, more mistakes, less effective closeouts on shooters, less penetrations stopped. It jibed with what myself and others saw via an admittedly less studious eyetest, e.i., his defensive effort waned in the Finals. It didn't seem consistent with his work against Chicago and Boston (arguably his two best series ever, particularly the CHI series), so it added to the shock of LBJ playing so poorly. I wish I could find that post.

I want to thank Dr Spaceman for finding examples of what Dallas was doing and explaining why LeBron James wasn't at his best on offense. Coach Carlisle developed a great plan, and they had the pieces to orchestrate the attack on LeBron. Kidd/Marion/Stevenson had the size, strength, length to constantly have a solid initial defender on LBJ, and Chandler/Nowitzki were space eaters in the middle, especially Chandler with his mobility.

As has been noted often on this board, 2011 LBJ had gained muscle mass and lost some live dribble explosiveness in the halfcourt. So when things got bad and LBJ was forced to play 1 vs. 1 from the perimeter, he couldn't pull a 2009 LBJ and just drive to the basket and do anything he By Gawd wanted. He had to take a more measured approach, and as noted in the OP, perhaps Dallas saw that and used LBJ's best basketball personality trait to contribute to his own demise.

There's also MPG. LBJ took on an enormous load on both sides of the ball in the East playoffs and played like 43 MPG or something. May have been drained. I doubt this was a major factor, however. He was 26. It was 2011, not 2014.

Dallas disallowing him from favorable post positions was huge. Dallas' greatest Four Factors advantage in the series was FT/FGA. (Miami actually won rebounds and TOV%.) LeBron took less than 4 FTAs per game, while Bosh and Wade were both over 7 FTAs per game. If LeBron had gotten superior post position and/or was able to constantly slash into the paint no matter what a la '09 LBJ, he'd probably be in that range as well, and considering the series was so damn close, we're probably looking at a Miami victory even if LBJ had gone cold from the perimeter.

At the time, what pissed me off was the FTAs. It showed passivity. Not sure if it was mental or if he physically was unable to break through a space-eating defense like he was a year or 2 earlier, but it made it seem like he wasn't aggressive enough. Maybe I was wrong for attributing the poor play to a lack of aggression instead of taking a more nuanced look at the factors contributing to the decrease in FTAs.

As far as the result on his production and efficiency, he had a USG% of 22.9 and an individual ORTG of 102. So Miami got inefficient production from LeBron James. That's not too damning. His tepid offensive rebounding makes sense considering he was forced to the perimeter with the ball a lot. Turnovers are really poor.

He got over 7 assists per game, but I'm not sure how much of that was creating vs. simply passing. There's a difference. Again, I think the evidence in the OP points to Dallas wanting LBJ to pass to the players they knew they could control relatively speaking. Considering the lack of shooting and inexperience of SPO to create an efficient, machine-like offense we saw in 2012 and beyond, it worked. This is the part that might be damning to 2011 LBJ.

No Miami player aside from the Big 3 and Super Mario had an individual ORTG over 100 (Juwan Howard only played 29 minutes in total, not counting him). LBJ and Bosh were still pretty inefficient. Wade and Chalmers were the only ones able to capitalize on the way Dallas played LBJ.

To be honest, I don't think there was a counter for what Dallas did. That version of LBJ couldn't slash and create the way 2009 LBJ could from the perimeter, especially without spacing and with a space-eating defense concentrating on him.

FWIW, I do think 2011 LBJ gets underrated. Finals aside, it might be his finest defensive season ever, his mid-range game was on point, and he was still a beast slashing and creating, albeit a lesser beast than 2009-2010 and 2012-2015.

The lack of slashing game from LBJ that season, in hindsight, made the defensive attention he drew from Dallas weird. Of the 8 teams they saw in the playoffs in '11 & '12, Dallas was the only one who treated him like an elite slasher. He spent that entire 2011 season taking advantage of Wade/Bosh's presence on offense. Working his then strong mid-range J, combined with some activity buckets. Thats how he scored in the halfcourt. Very little slashing. His pick n roll tendency was to bait defenders to over commit and rifle passes out to shooters....he didn't use it as a means to attack the paint.

The defensive pressure/attention from '13 & '14 is light years ahead of what he saw in '11 & '12

[Joao Saraiva]

I simply loved the observation on that Dallas crazy scheme to make LeBron bring the ball up and get him out of the post. That was actually a very smart move, and then they closed the paint very well when he was in the perimeter.

LeBron is the kind of guy that will usually make you pay for this kind of atention. We've seen it countless times, but not in the 2011 NBA finals. And that really wasn't his fault: Joel Anthony shouldn't play in any contender, and making the finals with him on the court just shows you how great Wade, James and Bosh were. In 2012 the Heat were having the same problem, and finally Spo took Joel out. I had been talking about that for the entire 2011 and 2012 season... What took him so long to understand? I thought it was kind of obvious.

With this kind of D the Heat should have played a lineup like: Mario Chalmers, Mike Miller, Wade, LeBron and Bosh. And then include Eddie House, Bibby and Jones in the rotation, if there was the need to search for the hot hand.

Did Dallas also make D. Wade bring the ball up or was it just LeBron? I'm sorry I don't recall it a lot, since I've never watched again those finals (yes I'm a LeBron fan so those are really not the games I wish to remember).

Great thread, very good OP and nice contributions from a ton of guys.

[PaulieWal]

I simply loved the observation on that Dallas crazy scheme to make LeBron bring the ball up and get him out of the post. That was actually a very smart move, and then they closed the paint very well when he was in the perimeter.

LeBron is the kind of guy that will usually make you pay for this kind of atention. We've seen it countless times, but not in the 2011 NBA finals. And that really wasn't his fault: Joel Anthony shouldn't play in any contender, and making the finals with him on the court just shows you how great Wade, James and Bosh were. In 2012 the Heat were having the same problem, and finally Spo took Joel out. I had been talking about that for the entire 2011 and 2012 season... What took him so long to understand? I thought it was kind of obvious.

With this kind of D the Heat should have played a lineup like: Mario Chalmers, Mike Miller, Wade, LeBron and Bosh. And then include Eddie House, Bibby and Jones in the rotation, if there was the need to search for the hot hand.

Did Dallas also make D. Wade bring the ball up or was it just LeBron? I'm sorry I don't recall it a lot, since I've never watched again those finals (yes I'm a LeBron fan so those are really not the games I wish to remember).

Great thread, very good OP and nice contributions from a ton of guys.

Mike Miller was banged up the first two years and not a consistent performer. He was supposed to be the 6th man but his health betrayed him. Remember after the OKC series there were rumors of him retiring because he couldn't even stand straight?

[Joao Saraiva]

You're talking about game 2 and I think LeBron was great during game 1 and game 2 (until the 4th). From there on, I think he decreases his level of play a ton, and he becomes more and more passive. It might have something to do with frustration, since he was not getting it going the way he did against other teams in the playoffs.

That's when coach Spo should have done something diferent. If LeBron can't solve that issue on his own, his coach should run diferent things and look for diferent solutions to make better use for him. I felt the Heat played the same way from game 1 to 6, while Dallas adapted and found diferent solutions for their game 1 and 2 problems.

[Joao Saraiva]

First, thank you for your kind words Dr Spaceman, I'm really enjoying the discussion. It's refreshing to have a true discussion about Jame's play in this series.

IMO Wade has actually always been a tremendous off-ball player, and he got knocked unfairly for that during his peak years.

What do you mean? While I agree that he always was a great, underrated off-ball player, I don't really remember him being knocked for it.

But anyway, I think Dallas knew that LeBron wasn't willing to shoot Miami out of games, even if they were going to lose anyway.

That's a very valid point, and something he should be blamed for IMO. Because James knew that he needed to be more agressive. The coaching staff and his teammates as well. Here is a quote from the infamous game 4 8pts output:
"I've got to do a better job of being more assertive offensively," said James, who nonetheless contributed nine rebounds and seven assists. "I'm confident in my ability. It's just about going out there and knocking them down."
But then, even if did attempt 19 and 15 shots, he only had 2 and 4 FTA for the next 2 games. That's inacceptable for someone with James ability to draw fouls.

Miami was always a pick your poison team that season, but Dallas found the antidote for one and the rest of the team was so thin they could survive the other.

I think that sum's it up pretty well. But the fact is that an "andidote" WAS found for James but not for Wade (and, again, they would have loved to found one). So it seems kind of strange for me that you say that it should have been clear James was the better player of the two.

I do think it was more mental, confusion, uncertainty, outside pressure, than anything else even though that sounds like a Skip Bayless rationale.

I mostly agree. The difference with a Skip Bayless "analysis" however is that we give Dallas total credit for putting James in that position, and try to understand how they did it instead of just saying "he chocked". It's clear that he wasn't himself.

James is a player that likes to have fun in the basketball court (not saying this is a bad thing, or that he doesn't want to win as much as anyone). And in 11', like you said, the Heat did not and faced an all-time level of pressure.
I think it was after the OKC title, but James said that during the 11's summer, Chris Paul told him something along those lines "It wouldn't have felt right if you guys had won. You were playing with anger. It was you against the world." and even if he simply tossed it aside at that moment, he now agreed.

And about the "letting Wade get his" : The thing is, simply throwing double team at Wade when he has the ball is basically the same as "letting him get his" for me. Prime Wade had one of the very, very best double-teams breaking ability of all time.
And we also shouldn't forget that he was hurt for game 5 and 6, limiting his ability to impact the game.

Wade got stopped in the ECF and the Heat prevailed. LeBron actually made a better use of Bosh when he played well than Wade did in the finals.

So yes I think stoping LeBron has more effect than stopping Wade.

Still, I think they were both in the same tier, and none of them was clearly better than the other.

[ronnymac2]

I remember at the time of the series, ElGee was tracking possessions and observed a sharp decrease in LeBron's defensive effectiveness over the whole of the six-game Finals series relative to the defensive dominance he had displayed against Chicago and Boston in the East Playoffs. IIRC, more mistakes, less effective closeouts on shooters, less penetrations stopped. It jibed with what myself and others saw via an admittedly less studious eyetest, e.i., his defensive effort waned in the Finals. It didn't seem consistent with his work against Chicago and Boston (arguably his two best series ever, particularly the CHI series), so it added to the shock of LBJ playing so poorly. I wish I could find that post.

Here you are

And here's his 2011 Finals EV recap

Thank you man! Wow, those numbers are even worse than I remember.

Wade was an animal in that series though.

[PaulieWal]

Wade got stopped in the ECF and the Heat prevailed. LeBron actually made a better use of Bosh when he played well than Wade did in the finals.

So yes I think stoping LeBron has more effect than stopping Wade.

Still, I think they were both in the same tier, and none of them was clearly better than the other.

The thing is that even when Wade wasn't that good against the Bulls he still helped LeBron close out the Bulls at the end of games. Remember game 5 when both LeBron/Wade went bananas on some crazy 18-2 run?

Now think about how close games 2-5 were in the Finals and Wade had no help from LeBron to close those games out. Even if LeBron struggled overall, the Heat would have still won if he had helped Wade close those games out since games 2-5 were extremely close.

Here it is, this is just insane. Why couldn't LeBron/Wade do this against the Mavs?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgLMI784M4E[/youtube]

[ronnymac2]

I remember at the time of the series, ElGee was tracking possessions and observed a sharp decrease in LeBron's defensive effectiveness over the whole of the six-game Finals series relative to the defensive dominance he had displayed against Chicago and Boston in the East Playoffs. IIRC, more mistakes, less effective closeouts on shooters, less penetrations stopped. It jibed with what myself and others saw via an admittedly less studious eyetest, e.i., his defensive effort waned in the Finals. It didn't seem consistent with his work against Chicago and Boston (arguably his two best series ever, particularly the CHI series), so it added to the shock of LBJ playing so poorly. I wish I could find that post.

I want to thank Dr Spaceman for finding examples of what Dallas was doing and explaining why LeBron James wasn't at his best on offense. Coach Carlisle developed a great plan, and they had the pieces to orchestrate the attack on LeBron. Kidd/Marion/Stevenson had the size, strength, length to constantly have a solid initial defender on LBJ, and Chandler/Nowitzki were space eaters in the middle, especially Chandler with his mobility.

As has been noted often on this board, 2011 LBJ had gained muscle mass and lost some live dribble explosiveness in the halfcourt. So when things got bad and LBJ was forced to play 1 vs. 1 from the perimeter, he couldn't pull a 2009 LBJ and just drive to the basket and do anything he By Gawd wanted. He had to take a more measured approach, and as noted in the OP, perhaps Dallas saw that and used LBJ's best basketball personality trait to contribute to his own demise.

There's also MPG. LBJ took on an enormous load on both sides of the ball in the East playoffs and played like 43 MPG or something. May have been drained. I doubt this was a major factor, however. He was 26. It was 2011, not 2014.

Dallas disallowing him from favorable post positions was huge. Dallas' greatest Four Factors advantage in the series was FT/FGA. (Miami actually won rebounds and TOV%.) LeBron took less than 4 FTAs per game, while Bosh and Wade were both over 7 FTAs per game. If LeBron had gotten superior post position and/or was able to constantly slash into the paint no matter what a la '09 LBJ, he'd probably be in that range as well, and considering the series was so damn close, we're probably looking at a Miami victory even if LBJ had gone cold from the perimeter.

At the time, what pissed me off was the FTAs. It showed passivity. Not sure if it was mental or if he physically was unable to break through a space-eating defense like he was a year or 2 earlier, but it made it seem like he wasn't aggressive enough. Maybe I was wrong for attributing the poor play to a lack of aggression instead of taking a more nuanced look at the factors contributing to the decrease in FTAs.

As far as the result on his production and efficiency, he had a USG% of 22.9 and an individual ORTG of 102. So Miami got inefficient production from LeBron James. That's not too damning. His tepid offensive rebounding makes sense considering he was forced to the perimeter with the ball a lot. Turnovers are really poor.

He got over 7 assists per game, but I'm not sure how much of that was creating vs. simply passing. There's a difference. Again, I think the evidence in the OP points to Dallas wanting LBJ to pass to the players they knew they could control relatively speaking. Considering the lack of shooting and inexperience of SPO to create an efficient, machine-like offense we saw in 2012 and beyond, it worked. This is the part that might be damning to 2011 LBJ.

No Miami player aside from the Big 3 and Super Mario had an individual ORTG over 100 (Juwan Howard only played 29 minutes in total, not counting him). LBJ and Bosh were still pretty inefficient. Wade and Chalmers were the only ones able to capitalize on the way Dallas played LBJ.

To be honest, I don't think there was a counter for what Dallas did. That version of LBJ couldn't slash and create the way 2009 LBJ could from the perimeter, especially without spacing and with a space-eating defense concentrating on him.

FWIW, I do think 2011 LBJ gets underrated. Finals aside, it might be his finest defensive season ever, his mid-range game was on point, and he was still a beast slashing and creating, albeit a lesser beast than 2009-2010 and 2012-2015.

The lack of slashing game from LBJ that season, in hindsight, made the defensive attention he drew from Dallas weird. Of the 8 teams they saw in the playoffs in '11 & '12, Dallas was the only one who treated him like an elite slasher. He spent that entire 2011 season taking advantage of Wade/Bosh's presence on offense. Working his then strong mid-range J, combined with some activity buckets. Thats how he scored in the halfcourt. Very little slashing. His pick n roll tendency was to bait defenders to over commit and rifle passes out to shooters....he didn't use it as a means to attack the paint.

The defensive pressure/attention from '13 & '14 is light years ahead of what he saw in '11 & '12

Good post, I definitely agree with that. His 2013 series with Chicago is underrated for this reason. CHI treated him like an elite slasher, yet he still dominated on offense despite the ho-hum scoring numbers because of the attention he garnered, not to mention his ability to threaten the rim via postups. I remember that game where Miami blew CHI out and LBJ only scored like 19 points...19 points doesn't look dominant, but his pressure on the rim discombobulated the defense.

[Orin]

Wade got stopped in the ECF and the Heat prevailed. LeBron actually made a better use of Bosh when he played well than Wade did in the finals.

So yes I think stoping LeBron has more effect than stopping Wade.

Still, I think they were both in the same tier, and none of them was clearly better than the other.

The thing is that even when Wade wasn't that good against the Bulls he still helped LeBron close out the Bulls at the end of games. Remember game 5 when both LeBron/Wade went bananas on some crazy 18-2 run?

Now think about how close games 2-5 were in the Finals and Wade had no help from LeBron to close those games out. Even if LeBron struggled overall, the Heat would have still won if he had helped Wade close those games out since games 2-5 were extremely close.

Here it is, this is just insane. Why couldn't LeBron/Wade do this against the Mavs?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgLMI784M4E[/youtube]

I don't know if it is mainly because Lebron made a better use of Bosh like you are saying, but Chris played infinitely better against Chicago than against Dallas. And Dallas played better than Chicago , so you can't say stoping Lebron has more effect than stoping Wade just because we won one series and lost the other.
Wade didn't played very well against the Bulls, true, but like PaulieWal said, he was still crucial for us. He made some huge play down the stretch, like in the OT of game 4 where he made a couple of huge block.

This video is such a great memory as a Heat fan. That comeback was just incredible. The 11 playoffs had a ton of those epic comeback if my memory serves me right. The Brandon Roy one against Dallas, Dallaw own comeback against OKC, then the one against Miami in game 2 (not a good memory)...

[therealbig3]

FWIW, Cuban was asked by Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless about LeBron's performance in the Finals, and Cuban actually said that LeBron for the most part made the right basketball play. I believe it was Hornet's Mania who pointed this out, Dallas actually banked on the fact that LeBron would make the right basketball play instead of forcing the issue. They actually used what is usually a massive plus for LeBron and what is usually worthy of extreme praise AGAINST him, and won as a result.

Absolutely brilliant if you think about just how incredible that is. Intuitively, it makes no sense that making the smart basketball play would actually hurt the team, but that was the case against Dallas.

[Sign5]

Wade got stopped in the ECF and the Heat prevailed. LeBron actually made a better use of Bosh when he played well than Wade did in the finals.

So yes I think stoping LeBron has more effect than stopping Wade.

Still, I think they were both in the same tier, and none of them was clearly better than the other.

The thing is that even when Wade wasn't that good against the Bulls he still helped LeBron close out the Bulls at the end of games. Remember game 5 when both LeBron/Wade went bananas on some crazy 18-2 run?

Now think about how close games 2-5 were in the Finals and Wade had no help from LeBron to close those games out. Even if LeBron struggled overall, the Heat would have still won if he had helped Wade close those games out since games 2-5 were extremely close.

Here it is, this is just insane. Why couldn't LeBron/Wade do this against the Mavs?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgLMI784M4E[/youtube]

I don't know if it is mainly because Lebron made a better use of Bosh like you are saying, but Chris played infinitely better against Chicago than against Dallas. And Dallas played better than Chicago , so you can't say stoping Lebron has more effect than stoping Wade just because we won one series and lost the other.
Wade didn't played very well against the Bulls, true, but like PaulieWal said, he was still crucial for us. He made some huge play down the stretch, like in the OT of game 4 where he made a couple of huge block.

This video is such a great memory as a Heat fan. That comeback was just incredible. The 11 playoffs had a ton of those epic comeback if my memory serves me right. The Brandon Roy one against Dallas, Dallaw own comeback against OKC, then the one against Miami in game 2 (not a good memory)...

Man If I could and1 Pauliewal and Hornetmania more I would.


I'm extremely tired of this myth that Dallas' put more emphasis into stopping LeBron over Wade and they just let Wade do his own thing. It's completely disrespectful to Wade's brilliant performance and just flat out wrong.

Unfortunately Dawkins account got deleted because he had the entire highlights of Wade vs Dallas, you could see through-out that Dallas made a concerted effort into stopping WADE, they threw double and even triple-teams(or at least had 3 eyes on him) every time he drove or was in the post including at times sending LBJ's defender.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PflzRXn5Wk[/youtube]

Wade was just better at attacking the double/triple teams and was A LOT more aggressive and relentless, JVG put it perfectly "He's everywhere". It was literally a tail of two sides between the two, Wade was super aggressive while LeBron was very passive and obviously rattled (in which he admitted in 2012).

Also this notion that the Heat needed LeBron to be the number 1 guy to win is also complete farce. The reason the Heat beat Chicago is because BOTH LeBron and Bosh played superbly while Wade still chipped in 18ppg and still made critical CLUTCH plays in each win especially in game 5 as we all know. In the Dallas series, Wade was the only one playing superbly. James AND Bosh both played worse than in the previous series, meaning vs Chicago you had 2 of the big 3 playing superb and 1 playing subpar with critical points while against Dallas ONLY Wade was great with the others under-performing and no one providing key clutch plays except game 3 with the Bosh shot (which they ended up winning).


Against Chicago, Bosh averaged 23 and 8 on 60% shooting, he completely destroyed the bulls alongside James who averaged 26 7 and 8

Against the Mavericks Bosh averaged 18 and 7 on 41%, HUUGE drop-off in production.


Thus, due to how close the losses were in the 2011 finals one can conclude that if Bosh had produced even close to what he averaged in the previous series then the Heat win the championship despite LeBron under performing. It has nothing do with "LeBron had to be the one in charge", LeBron and Wade were 1a/1b options all season. They averaged NEAR identical stats vs Boston so the notion that LeBron suddenly had to be the clear cut number 1 option is asinine. The main difference is two of the big 3 played great against the Bulls and won, only 1 played great against the Mavericks and lost.

[Im Your Father]

Honestly, I chalk it up mostly to Lebron's added weight that season.

I know that he was only 26 at the time, but I have never seen Lebron look slower in the half court than the 2011 season. It is remarkable the hit that his first step took between 2010 (where he was blowing by people with ease) and 2011 (where he struggled to get past Peja). He would catch the ball and simply be unable to get by his primary defender, be it Jason Kidd, Matrix, or even Peja.

Lebron seemed to regain a little quickness in 2012, although I chalk up his success that year mostly to his improved post game, and even more in 2013. However, even this year, after dropping significant weight, I still don't think he's as quick as he was during the 09-10 season.

Now some of this can obviously be attributed to age, but Lebron's quickness and especially his first step, has followed a very strange trajectory.

[Texas Chuck]

Rick Carlisle is just a genius. I mean look at the 2014 Spurs--only the Mavs even put up token resistance against them and this getting next to nothing from Dirk. You give him a 7 game series and he is going to find some weakness to attack and take advantage of.

I don't think Lebron choked at all, but its also obvious it went beyond Carlisle and the veteran Mavs. I think the weight of the world being on his shoulders all year long after the decision and the fatigue of doing so much heavy lifting all year finally caught up with him at the end of games. Because while he wasn't his usual level of great in the first 3 Q's, his play in the 4th quarter was even vexing in real-time. I just kept waiting as a Mavs fan for him to snap out of it and destroy us, but he really never did.

I have infinite love for that MAvs team and for Matrix,DeShawn and Kidd as individual defenders on him and Chandler, et all as helpers and Carlisle/Casey and their schemes, but I also suffer no illusion that they had the ability to shut down Lebron to the degree they did.

But mainly, Rick Carlisle is a genius in-game coach.