Towns or Okafor or Mudiay or Russel?

[Nazrmohamed]

I'm sure Towns could start on day one in the nba and think many are under estimating his impact. Sure it'll take him some time to become a premiere player but from the start you should expect him to rebound and defend at an nba level while scoring on put backs and assisted plays. Essentially he'll be a role player early on similar to a guy like Serge Ibaka and then the goal is to slowly increase his usage over the next three years but I still think that when I say role player, I mean role playing starter. There'll be growing pains of course but it's not like we got any choice. We're not gonna build an entire starting five on 25 mil, excluding our draft pick.

[mpharris36]

I'm sure Towns could start on day one in the nba and think many are under estimating his impact. Sure it'll take him some time to become a premiere player but from the start you should expect him to rebound and defend at an nba level while scoring on put backs and assisted plays. Essentially he'll be a role player early on similar to a guy like Serge Ibaka and then the goal is to slowly increase his usage over the next three years but I still think that when I say role player, I mean role playing starter. There'll be growing pains of course but it's not like we got any choice. We're not gonna build an entire starting five on 25 mil, excluding our draft pick.

you also see all the open mid range jumperse Jason Smith and Bargs get in this offense. Towns can knock down that shot.

[miamiheat703]

i think towns has the most upside and thats who the knicks should draft, forget about melo and trying to win now, knicks have tried to speed up the process in the past and it doesnt work. i think its exaggerated that hell need a couple years to develop, by his 2nd year hell be a very good starter in the nba in my opinion.

okafor scouts are saying hes more nba ready but lower ceiling. not sure about this one, is he really a guy they envision as developing into a tim duncan type or just a guy whos bigger and better than most college players. hard to tell, either way id stay away from mudiay who has no jumper and a guy like russel who jumped on the scene late out of nowhere always scares me into thinking bust.

[moocow007]

i think towns has the most upside and thats who the knicks should draft, forget about melo and trying to win now, knicks have tried to speed up the process in the past and it doesnt work. i think its exaggerated that hell need a couple years to develop, by his 2nd year hell be a very good starter in the nba in my opinion.

okafor scouts are saying hes more nba ready but lower ceiling. not sure about this one, is he really a guy they envision as developing into a tim duncan type or just a guy whos bigger and better than most college players. hard to tell, either way id stay away from mudiay who has no jumper and a guy like russel who jumped on the scene late out of nowhere always scares me into thinking bust.

I would also love to have a job that pays me a million a year. But that's not realistic given the situation. Same here about Forgetting about Anthony.

[miamiheat703]

i think towns has the most upside and thats who the knicks should draft, forget about melo and trying to win now, knicks have tried to speed up the process in the past and it doesnt work. i think its exaggerated that hell need a couple years to develop, by his 2nd year hell be a very good starter in the nba in my opinion.

okafor scouts are saying hes more nba ready but lower ceiling. not sure about this one, is he really a guy they envision as developing into a tim duncan type or just a guy whos bigger and better than most college players. hard to tell, either way id stay away from mudiay who has no jumper and a guy like russel who jumped on the scene late out of nowhere always scares me into thinking bust.

I would also love to have a job that pays me a million a year. But that's not realistic given the situation. Same here about Forgetting about Anthony.

what do you mean a job that pays you millions?

im not saying forget melo just dont trade the only pick theyll have for the next 3 years for a guy wholl help now.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I can't believe I actually agree with Reggie Miller:

“I think with the triangle, you need great passing bigs,” said Miller, the longtime Knicks nemesis with the Indiana Pacers. “If you go back to Chicago with [Bill] Wennington and Bill Cartwright. If you go to Phil Jackson with Kobe and Shaq, Shaq was a great passing big. Having said that, to me Karl-Anthony Towns would be unbelievable because I think he’s an unbelievable passer at that high post, especially when you come up to that pinch-post area, you’ve gotta be able to see the floor. Plus, he can score down low. If you’re playing more of a traditional offense, Jahlil Okafor, not to say he can’t pass, but he’s not the passer that Karl-Anthony Towns is.”

Now I'm thinking.... Maybe we should take JO.

I completely disagree. Jahlil plays out the low post so we should really only care about his ability to pass out the double (which he will actually get unlike Towns) and Jahlil makes the right play very often. His passing reminds me of Shaq actually. Shaq wasn't a great passer but he was smart enough to learn the triangle, read the doubles, and know the cuts. He also had the ability to control the ball extremely well and complete the passes. Shaq's assist numbers the two years before playing in the triangle: 2.4 and 2.3 assists a game. His assist numbers his first two years in the triangle: 3.8 and 3.7 assists a game. Jahlil holds the ball like a grapefruit (reminds me of Jordan and Dr. J) and can make some great passes (he's not the greatest yet - his accuracy on some of those bullet passes are off).

He's also so commonly doubled that he can make super fast reads out of them. Towns in the Triangle will play more of a Pau Gasol/Horace Grant role than a Bynum/Shaq role.

This video shows his passing ability well.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qkdsz3cs68[/youtube]

Suggest people take a look at the interview Mike Francesa had with John Calipari on March 4th here http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio/mike-francesa/

Towns is growing into something special and can impact the game in every way. Calipari talks about what Town could soon become, and it's scary good we could actually have a guy like this who can shoot, rebound, defend, pass, hit freethrows. I'm still torn b/w the two of Okafor or Towns, but I trust Phil will make the right call. His people have the better eyes and scouts, so they know what to look for to make the right choice.

The earlier Towns goes in the draft only benefits Calipari and his recruiting. I wouldn't read too much into what he has to say about one of his own players

And out of all those attributes you listed. Which one is he exceptionally good at? Because he can still end up just being a 8\8 guy in the League. Those are not the type of numbers i want from a top pick.

Shooting, both from the field and freethrows, and protecting the rim. Those skills are up to an NBA standard already with Towns. Everything else is there and above par for an 18 year old but not NBA level.

i agree with you that okafor's passing and court vision are being sorely underestimated. sorely. he is already elite at that. and we know he is an elite post scorer.

i also agree that towns lacks polish. he's kind of a jack of many trades, master of none. at least okafor has achieved mastery of a couple things. but we also all know okafor's deficiencies.

if we got #1, i would be pleased to pick either big. i am curious to see how their careers will play out. there would be no discussion if okafor gave supreme effort like towns does. that's that x factor that makes you believe he will reach his potential and be useful in the meantime.

i will say from what i've seen of OK4, is that he makes a lot of cross-court passes that are smart for NCAA level, but will not be available in the NBA. he's going to see better defenses than presbyterian and elon. he will have to be more conservative. but i am confident he will. and his size and skill will translate to the next level on the block.

those who compare okafor to al jeff are discrediting this kid's basketball mind. but i'd like to see more effort before i can crown him the runaway #1. i think a lot of scouts and writers are feeling the same way right now. towns is closing that gap we saw before the season started.

tournament will definitely tell a lot about these guys' mettle.

[moocow007]

i think towns has the most upside and thats who the knicks should draft, forget about melo and trying to win now, knicks have tried to speed up the process in the past and it doesnt work. i think its exaggerated that hell need a couple years to develop, by his 2nd year hell be a very good starter in the nba in my opinion.

okafor scouts are saying hes more nba ready but lower ceiling. not sure about this one, is he really a guy they envision as developing into a tim duncan type or just a guy whos bigger and better than most college players. hard to tell, either way id stay away from mudiay who has no jumper and a guy like russel who jumped on the scene late out of nowhere always scares me into thinking bust.

I would also love to have a job that pays me a million a year. But that's not realistic given the situation. Same here about Forgetting about Anthony.

what do you mean a job that pays you millions?

im not saying forget melo just dont trade the only pick theyll have for the next 3 years for a guy wholl help now.

Oh ok. They actually do have their own 1st round pick in 2017 so it's really not 3 years (though it may feel like it). As far as trading their 2015 1st? Sure, there's been a heady back and forth between the folk here about the merits of possibly trading the 2015 pick for someone like Cousins. Then it becomes a debate about talent vs. baggage.

[EnigmatiC]

this draft is reminding me of 2004 and Emeka Okafor (Jahlil Okafor) vs Dwight Howard (Towns). The more polished player vs the more athleticism and debatable potential.

[malik959]

This discussion reminds me so much of the Dwight Howard Vs Okafor talks. OK was seasoned and NBA ready while everyone knew D. Howard would take years. Orlando chose to wait it out with Howard and it paid off.

[And100]

This discussion reminds me so much of the Dwight Howard Vs Okafor talks. OK was seasoned and NBA ready while everyone knew D. Howard would take years. Orlando chose to wait it out with Howard and it paid off.

One relevant difference being OK was a three year college player and 3 years older than JO.

OK was known as an NBA ready defensive player and limited offensively, while JO is the opposite.

I'm not sure it's wise to put a 19 year old kid in a box and think you project his defensive ceiling.

[DickGrayson]

I can't believe I actually agree with Reggie Miller:

“I think with the triangle, you need great passing bigs,” said Miller, the longtime Knicks nemesis with the Indiana Pacers. “If you go back to Chicago with [Bill] Wennington and Bill Cartwright. If you go to Phil Jackson with Kobe and Shaq, Shaq was a great passing big. Having said that, to me Karl-Anthony Towns would be unbelievable because I think he’s an unbelievable passer at that high post, especially when you come up to that pinch-post area, you’ve gotta be able to see the floor. Plus, he can score down low. If you’re playing more of a traditional offense, Jahlil Okafor, not to say he can’t pass, but he’s not the passer that Karl-Anthony Towns is.”

Now I'm thinking.... Maybe we should take JO.

I completely disagree. Jahlil plays out the low post so we should really only care about his ability to pass out the double (which he will actually get unlike Towns) and Jahlil makes the right play very often. His passing reminds me of Shaq actually. Shaq wasn't a great passer but he was smart enough to learn the triangle, read the doubles, and know the cuts. He also had the ability to control the ball extremely well and complete the passes. Shaq's assist numbers the two years before playing in the triangle: 2.4 and 2.3 assists a game. His assist numbers his first two years in the triangle: 3.8 and 3.7 assists a game. Jahlil holds the ball like a grapefruit (reminds me of Jordan and Dr. J) and can make some great passes (he's not the greatest yet - his accuracy on some of those bullet passes are off).

He's also so commonly doubled that he can make super fast reads out of them. Towns in the Triangle will play more of a Pau Gasol/Horace Grant role than a Bynum/Shaq role.

This video shows his passing ability well.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qkdsz3cs68[/youtube]

The earlier Towns goes in the draft only benefits Calipari and his recruiting. I wouldn't read too much into what he has to say about one of his own players

And out of all those attributes you listed. Which one is he exceptionally good at? Because he can still end up just being a 8\8 guy in the League. Those are not the type of numbers i want from a top pick.

Shooting, both from the field and freethrows, and protecting the rim. Those skills are up to an NBA standard already with Towns. Everything else is there and above par for an 18 year old but not NBA level.

i agree with you that okafor's passing and court vision are being sorely underestimated. sorely. he is already elite at that. and we know he is an elite post scorer.

i also agree that towns lacks polish. he's kind of a jack of many trades, master of none. at least okafor has achieved mastery of a couple things. but we also all know okafor's deficiencies.

if we got #1, i would be pleased to pick either big. i am curious to see how their careers will play out. there would be no discussion if okafor gave supreme effort like towns does. that's that x factor that makes you believe he will reach his potential and be useful in the meantime.

i will say from what i've seen of OK4, is that he makes a lot of cross-court passes that are smart for NCAA level, but will not be available in the NBA. he's going to see better defenses than presbyterian and elon. he will have to be more conservative. but i am confident he will. and his size and skill will translate to the next level on the block.

those who compare okafor to al jeff are discrediting this kid's basketball mind. but i'd like to see more effort before i can crown him the runaway #1. i think a lot of scouts and writers are feeling the same way right now. towns is closing that gap we saw before the season started.

tournament will definitely tell a lot about these guys' mettle.

If you think Towns "lacks polish" you haven't seen him play.
He's a master rebounder, master defense and is multi-dimensional on offense. There's nothing lacking polish, he just hasn't scratch the surface of his max potential. He's definitely elite in the collegiate level and has achieved mastery of more things than Okafor has.

[Pharmcat]

This discussion reminds me so much of the Dwight Howard Vs Okafor talks. OK was seasoned and NBA ready while everyone knew D. Howard would take years. Orlando chose to wait it out with Howard and it paid off.

there is no comparison, OK4 has more offensive skillset than emeka ever had

[Pharmcat]

I think OK4 is being undervalued...maybe he isnt trying his hardest, or his leg injury has caused him to take it easy, but his offensive skillset is guaranteed to translate to the NBA. he definitely is the safest of all the prospects

[Jeff Van Gully]

I completely disagree. Jahlil plays out the low post so we should really only care about his ability to pass out the double (which he will actually get unlike Towns) and Jahlil makes the right play very often. His passing reminds me of Shaq actually. Shaq wasn't a great passer but he was smart enough to learn the triangle, read the doubles, and know the cuts. He also had the ability to control the ball extremely well and complete the passes. Shaq's assist numbers the two years before playing in the triangle: 2.4 and 2.3 assists a game. His assist numbers his first two years in the triangle: 3.8 and 3.7 assists a game. Jahlil holds the ball like a grapefruit (reminds me of Jordan and Dr. J) and can make some great passes (he's not the greatest yet - his accuracy on some of those bullet passes are off).

He's also so commonly doubled that he can make super fast reads out of them. Towns in the Triangle will play more of a Pau Gasol/Horace Grant role than a Bynum/Shaq role.

This video shows his passing ability well.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qkdsz3cs68[/youtube]


Shooting, both from the field and freethrows, and protecting the rim. Those skills are up to an NBA standard already with Towns. Everything else is there and above par for an 18 year old but not NBA level.

i agree with you that okafor's passing and court vision are being sorely underestimated. sorely. he is already elite at that. and we know he is an elite post scorer.

i also agree that towns lacks polish. he's kind of a jack of many trades, master of none. at least okafor has achieved mastery of a couple things. but we also all know okafor's deficiencies.

if we got #1, i would be pleased to pick either big. i am curious to see how their careers will play out. there would be no discussion if okafor gave supreme effort like towns does. that's that x factor that makes you believe he will reach his potential and be useful in the meantime.

i will say from what i've seen of OK4, is that he makes a lot of cross-court passes that are smart for NCAA level, but will not be available in the NBA. he's going to see better defenses than presbyterian and elon. he will have to be more conservative. but i am confident he will. and his size and skill will translate to the next level on the block.

those who compare okafor to al jeff are discrediting this kid's basketball mind. but i'd like to see more effort before i can crown him the runaway #1. i think a lot of scouts and writers are feeling the same way right now. towns is closing that gap we saw before the season started.

tournament will definitely tell a lot about these guys' mettle.

If you think Towns "lacks polish" you haven't seen him play.
He's a master rebounder, master defense and is multi-dimensional on offense. There's nothing lacking polish, he just hasn't scratch the surface of his max potential. He's definitely elite in the collegiate level and has achieved mastery of more things than Okafor has.

first of all, i'm team towns. i've made that very clear all over this site. no need to make those silly qualifiers. just say you don't agree. that's fine.

when i speak of mastery, i'm talking about things that can be done at an elite level in the NBA. okafor's post play is world-class. put him in any league, he can do that element of his game at an expert level.

we love towns' defense, but i've watched him get overanxious and make plays that are going to get him into foul trouble in today's NBA. he still has to master his patience a bit. not sure he's making an all-defensive team out of the gate. let's not hand him that before he's guarded demarcus cousins, marc gasol, lamarcus, vucevic, duncan, etc. before james harden has broken down the perimeter defense and is coming at him full-speed. there's going to be an adjustment.

he can shoot well. he's not kyle korver, but he has a nice, consistent jumper. that's not mastery, that's being good at something.

i guess i haven't found the one thing about him that he is world-class at. maybe rebounding, like you say. that translates well from all levels. but i still i see him being good at a lot of different things, which is special and valuable.

i agree that towns may just be scratching the surface of his potential. and that also implies exactly what i said, that he hasn't quite mastered certain skills. he's not olajuwon yet.

[Obi-One]

this draft is reminding me of 2004 and Emeka Okafor (Jahlil Okafor) vs Dwight Howard (Towns). The more polished player vs the more athleticism and debatable potential.

Please don't compare Jahlil and his elite footwork/post moves to that stiff bum Emeka

[EnigmatiC]

this draft is reminding me of 2004 and Emeka Okafor (Jahlil Okafor) vs Dwight Howard (Towns). The more polished player vs the more athleticism and debatable potential.

Please don't compare Jahlil and his elite footwork/post moves to that stiff bum Emeka

It's the debate im comparing not so much the players skill set.

[DickGrayson]

i agree with you that okafor's passing and court vision are being sorely underestimated. sorely. he is already elite at that. and we know he is an elite post scorer.

i also agree that towns lacks polish. he's kind of a jack of many trades, master of none. at least okafor has achieved mastery of a couple things. but we also all know okafor's deficiencies.

if we got #1, i would be pleased to pick either big. i am curious to see how their careers will play out. there would be no discussion if okafor gave supreme effort like towns does. that's that x factor that makes you believe he will reach his potential and be useful in the meantime.

i will say from what i've seen of OK4, is that he makes a lot of cross-court passes that are smart for NCAA level, but will not be available in the NBA. he's going to see better defenses than presbyterian and elon. he will have to be more conservative. but i am confident he will. and his size and skill will translate to the next level on the block.

those who compare okafor to al jeff are discrediting this kid's basketball mind. but i'd like to see more effort before i can crown him the runaway #1. i think a lot of scouts and writers are feeling the same way right now. towns is closing that gap we saw before the season started.

tournament will definitely tell a lot about these guys' mettle.

If you think Towns "lacks polish" you haven't seen him play.
He's a master rebounder, master defense and is multi-dimensional on offense. There's nothing lacking polish, he just hasn't scratch the surface of his max potential. He's definitely elite in the collegiate level and has achieved mastery of more things than Okafor has.

first of all, i'm team towns. i've made that very clear all over this site. no need to make those silly qualifiers. just say you don't agree. that's fine.

when i speak of mastery, i'm talking about things that can be done at an elite level in the NBA. okafor's post play is world-class. put him in any league, he can do that element of his game at an expert level.

we love towns' defense, but i've watched him get overanxious and make plays that are going to get him into foul trouble in today's NBA. he still has to master his patience a bit. not sure he's making an all-defensive team out of the gate. let's not hand him that before he's guarded demarcus cousins, marc gasol, lamarcus, vucevic, duncan, etc. before james harden has broken down the perimeter defense and is coming at him full-speed. there's going to be an adjustment.

he can shoot well. he's not kyle korver, but he has a nice, consistent jumper. that's not mastery, that's being good at something.

i guess i haven't found the one thing about him that he is world-class at. maybe rebounding, like you say. that translates well from all levels. but i still i see him being good at a lot of different things, which is special and valuable.

i agree that towns may just be scratching the surface of his potential. and that also implies exactly what i said, that he hasn't quite mastered certain skills. he's not olajuwon yet.

It's safe to say, we never seen these guys play in the NBA yet. It's all a projection.

At an expert level, we've seen Towns play against NBA players and hold his own at a very young age before college ball. I believe there is no question Towns is ready to display mastery of his attributes on the NBA level. I think you're trying to reach the point where Okafor is more a "finished" product where Towns is still touching the surface of his game, but that shouldn't disqualify Towns for being known as "raw" and a "jack of all trades, master of none". Towns isn't Draymond Green.

Overanxiousness is all about experience. Not too many 18 year olds are going to look calm on defense. KG, Dwight and others never did. Within 160-200 games in the NBA they became all defensive players. Not sure how many rookies make all defensive team out of the gate. Not even worth mentioning. It's all about experience and we know that.

For example
Dwight Howard didn't make an all NBA defensive team until 2007. He was drafted in 2004.
Kevin Garnett didn't make an all NBA defensive team until 1999. He was drafted in 1995.

It years 2-3 years of recognition as a great defender especially as a growing young player to make those teams. To even suggest or bring into conversation that Towns can or cannot make the all defensive team right away is pointless. Towns still possess mastery of defensive and offensive tools to make these teams.

Towns overanxious is a good trait, shows Towns has a pulse on defense. Okafor's biggest problem is his heart rate is at 55 BPM when he's on D.


Towns isn't a SG/SF. How is he going to be Kyle Korver? So we want Towns to shoot like Kyle Korver and make NBA all defensive team his rookie season to be consider a master at his level? These are mindless and unrealistic projections.

Towns is a 7"0 250lb center.
He shoots 80% FT

How many defensive centers at 18 we find to shoot that well from FT, possess mid range ability and can create space to create his own shot?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-bG_SQj5Wg[/youtube]

I believe for his age level, he's very advanced. I say it isn't mastery of shooting. That takes years of experience.

The two things I believe Towns will come to the NBA with mastery of is rebounding and shot blocking. Towns practices against NBA prospects, in the off season he trains with Al Horford, Jack Martinez (international superstar), and other NBA pros. He's getting tons of experience more than any college prospect we can name. His transition to the NBA will be hard, like for EVERY rookie. However, Towns is as polished and NBA ready as any player in this draft. To assume he is raw or not as ready as anyone else just because Towns plays 20 minutes a game is unfair in my opinion.

[GettinitDone]

Karl Towns is Boogie 2.0, screw everyone else.

Okafor is too small for NBA centers/ PFs. He'll be eaten alive here.

[GONYK]

Karl Towns is Boogie 2.0, screw everyone else.

Okafor is too small for NBA centers/ PFs. He'll be eaten alive here.

That is one of the more ridiculous claims made about Okafor in this thread.

Karl Towns - 7ft, 248 lbs

Jahlil Okafor - 6'11", 272 lbs

[ColdBlooded]

Karl Towns is Boogie 2.0, screw everyone else.

Okafor is too small for NBA centers/ PFs. He'll be eaten alive here.

That is one of the more ridiculous claims made about Okafor in this thread.

Karl Towns - 7ft, 248 lbs

Jahlil Okafor - 6'11", 272 lbs

Not to mention his elite 7'5 wingspan.

Boogie is not a good comp for Towns anyway. His post is all fcked up.