Let's talk about the 2011 Finals

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Joao Saraiva
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Re: Let's talk about the 2011 Finals 

Post#81 » by Joao Saraiva » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:19 am

Dr Spaceman wrote:
Joao Saraiva wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
Mike Miller was banged up the first two years and not a consistent performer. He was supposed to be the 6th man but his health betrayed him. Remember after the OKC series there were rumors of him retiring because he couldn't even stand straight?


He was not consistent in any year. He was good against OKC in 2012 and Spurs in 2013, but during the entire year he didn't have a great impact.

Still the Heat should put another shooter out there. I don't care who it is. It could have been Eddie House, he could guard Barea or Terry (or maybe he couldn't but the Heat couldn't guard them anyway).


Glad you mentioned House, because Spo FINALLY went to him in G6 and he immediately hit two 3s against the zone when LBJ/Wade looked helpless. Not even joking.

It's kind of a joke how bad Spo really was this series.


I didn't even remember that. I only remember him hitting a clutch at the end of one game (I think it was game 3 but I'm not sure).

Spoelstra has some big flaws as a coach the way I see it. I don't see him as an elite coach after all that run with the Heat. He takes a ton of time to change anything. His coaching was also bad against the Spurs in 2013 and 2014. In 2013 the Heat were playing awesome with LBJ + shooters in the 4th (finally he decided to mix up something) of game 6, and they erased a 13 point deficit. Then he changes back to the original lineup and the Heat almost lost the game. It's incredible how stubborn he is sometimes.

I also felt he could have tried something diferent in 2014 against the Spurs' offense, but the Heat remained in the same defensive scheme all the time.

Of course Spo has also positive things, but overall I think he's at most an average coach.
“These guys have been criticized the last few years for not getting to where we’re going, but I’ve always said that the most important thing in sports is to keep trying. Let this be an example of what it means to say it’s never over.” - Jerry Sloan
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Re: Let's talk about the 2011 Finals 

Post#82 » by Joao Saraiva » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:28 am

LeBron went straight from highschool to the NBA, so he didn't have any college basketball. In the NBA we don't see a ton of zone defense, so I think he was kind of lost also because of that. Do you guys think that had some impact?

Some teams actually tried zone defense against the Heat in 2012 but they never had a similar effect. LeBron prepared himself in that regard for the 2012 season, and he did well.
“These guys have been criticized the last few years for not getting to where we’re going, but I’ve always said that the most important thing in sports is to keep trying. Let this be an example of what it means to say it’s never over.” - Jerry Sloan
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Re: Let's talk about the 2011 Finals 

Post#83 » by jagz » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:58 am

Mutnt wrote:Going off my memory, one thing I'd like to add about the notion of LeBron being passive in that '11 series that I haven't seen anyone touch upon yet is the effect of Wade's play.


This is the key right here. There was a psychological shift that occurred in that series. As a longtime Wade watcher, I'll tell you what I saw. Wade shifted into Finals mode. What I saw was him make a conscious decision that he didn't care what the names of any of his teammates were, he was gonna take the destiny of that series in his own hands.

And LeBron definitely appeared taken aback by Wade's level of aggression. This is from Game 1 (unfortunately, the better quality videos don't show the full play). This was the sequence where Wade hit the 3 over Kidd after blocking Marion at the other end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSmyku-BhOk.

Look who's bringing up the ball. It's LeBron! Perfect time to let him operate at the top and spread the floor, right? But, he's not even thinking about making a play (he did almost nothing in that game after the 3rd quarter). Instead, watch Wade sprint from the corner and eventually get the ball from Bosh after James couldn't get it to him right away.

There's a play in Game 3, which alas doesn't appear in full on video, that illustrates the series dynamic even more clearly. Wade and Dirk were involved in a shootout in that 4th quarter and at one point, Wade's defender made him pick up his dribble, so he passed to James who... instantly passed it right back. Wade then hit a jumper to give the Heat the lead.

This is what I mean when I talk about a psychological shift. Once the Finals started, LeBron no longer had any claim on the Heat, even on the my turn/your turn basis with Wade that had been the pattern all year. They now exclusively belonged to Wade, as much as they ever did since 2003. And, consequently, James spent most of the rest of the series lost and in a daze, which apparently not only took a toll on his offense but his defense too (little has been said in this thread about that-- about how players like Terry, Marion and even Barea were taking advantage of him).

What the Heat needed from James was what they got from Wade at the ends of games in the ECFs. There have been many outrageous fallacies put forward in this thread, but one of the most egregious is the notion that James' Finals were better than Wade's ECFs. Toss the stats and focus on what happened in those games when it mattered. Excluding Game 1 (loss) and Game 2 in which he played well (24 pts), this is what Wade did in crunch-time in that series.

Game 3: scored 5 straight points that gave the Heat separation; Game 4: 6 pts, 3 blks in OT; Game 5: 10 4Q pts (22 pts overall) including 4 pt play that cut lead to 3.

THAT is what the Heat needed from LeBron when it was his turn to play the support role in the Finals. If he just makes a few key plays in the 4Q, they're champs. Instead, he averaged 3 pts in the quarter.

Also I would be remiss if I did not dispose of another falsehood that has been offered up. The Mavs in no way prioritized stopping James over Wade, at least not once they realized who the go-to-guy was. And if there was a special effort to take James out of his game, it was only because Dallas knew he was the one who was susceptible to it (it wasn't Wade that Marion was trash-talking and calling a b_tch).

Look at this LeBron dunk in Game 3, but pay attention to what really happens. Three defenders (including LeBron's man) cut off Wade at the foul line, so he passes to James, who now has an open lane for the dunk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXJ_upPvBfo.

And why were the Mavs sending 3 defenders at Wade, including one who was on James? Perhaps because he had been doing things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAU0AjxHL18.
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Re: Let's talk about the 2011 Finals 

Post#84 » by Zasterror » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:38 pm

This is a great thread. As a die hard Heat fan and Wade fan, this series was the most painful one I've ever witnessed. Admittedly, I was not a huge fan of LeBron before he came to the Heat. I grown to like him more and more as the season progressed and I was ready to stop having reservations about him up until that Finals. I was unusually angry about LeBron's mentality and approach to this series, especially after Game 1. Even though Wade had a "bad" series in the ECF, I had no doubt in my mind that he would step up in the Finals like he always does, mainly because of what he managed to do in the clutch in the ECF. Wade has always been historically "bad" against Chicago.
I refuse to watch any game footage of that Finals (besides Wade highlights) because it still stings to this day. The explanations in this thread about LeBron are sound.
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Re: Let's talk about the 2011 Finals 

Post#85 » by Ballerhogger » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:18 pm

The zone really got to Lebron and Wade wasn't himself. Jason Kidd played great deafens that series on him. The mavs had hot shooters at the right time.

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