NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[Pointgod]

The only thing that was relevant was that your initial post was discriminatory, incorrect and plain stupid. If it was about any other race than white people you would have been warned if not suspended. Sweeping generalizations on people's behaviour based on their race/ethnicity/religion etc. is dangerous and not needed. You sound like a smart guy and you have made some valid points, just try and stay away from the aforementioned, it makes you look ignorant and sabotages any valid point you may have made.

Blah blah blah my original post was accurate and prophetic. And you're right, if it was racist I would be suspended. But it wasn't racist so you should stop backseat moderating. Please read this article: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/reverse ... snt-exist/

"Of course you will get the standard ignorant black guy response..."

You'd get suspended, or at the very least you would yourself be aghast. But it's not that simple, right? No, actually, it is.

I generally respect you, Bill, but your head is lodged deep in the bowels of standpoint theory and other such pseudo-sophisticated essentialist dogma, sphincter epistemically closed shut.

Yeah but black posters don't continually act like they're the authority on another group of people, let's say white women. Someone would be justified in saying that statement if it was consistently true on this board. There's a reason that white people who have actually studied sociology and history tend to be aligned with the views of people of color, or at least are willing to admit that they'll never have full authority on the subject.

[DemoleDemolezan]

Who said that white people have a monopoly on racism? Certainly not me. I was referring to this board specifically. White privilege and a failure to even try to understand the black perspective runs rampant here. Stop sidetracking the conversation with irrelevant comments and sucking me into this silly back and forth.

The only thing that was relevant was that your initial post was discriminatory, incorrect and plain stupid. If it was about any other race than white people you would have been warned if not suspended. Sweeping generalizations on people's behaviour based on their race/ethnicity/religion etc. is dangerous and not needed. You sound like a smart guy and you have made some valid points, just try and stay away from the aforementioned, it makes you look ignorant and sabotages any valid point you may have made.

Blah blah blah my original post was accurate and prophetic. And you're right, if it was racist I would be suspended. But it wasn't racist so you should stop backseat moderating. Please read this article: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/reverse ... snt-exist/

LOLOLOL. Is this article supposed to be from the Onion. Bro... you can't be serious? Can you? Are you?

"People of color talking about white people don’t occupy positions of privilege or power. Therefore, they cannot be racist. Racism is structural, not personal."

The daily dot is a joke so I was hesitant to read it, but I completely stopped out of disgust when I got to that line.
First of all, it's not called "reverse racism" its called racism. Second of all, there are black people (and coloured people) in positions of power, so that sentence is just straight-up erroneous based on the strength of that alone.

I need to just stop here. To propose that people of colour cannot be racist because they are not in positions of power is just patently idiotic. Frankly,the fact that you suggested that article as part of your already flawed argument makes you an idiot. Like I said, do some travelling, study other cultures, try living in some other countries for extended periods of time and maybe we can revisit this argument. Until then, leave silly internet articles alone and don't argue with people who have actually done those things.

[Hornet Mania]

And there isn't even anything inherently wrong with that, but I'm not ok with pretending that college basketball is amateur sport. Pay the players, or truly make it amateur. Get the billions of dollars out of the game.

I agree with that too. The whole thing is ridiculous.

Honestly, the worst part of the age limit is that it basically ties the NBA to a system that's about to be ripped to shreds by the courts. Both the federal court system and the court of public opinion. I know guys can play in the NBADL or Europe, but only a measly percentage of prospects take that route. At present the NBA is tied to a system of "amateur" billion-dollar-industry athletics that's teetering on the brink of a huge reorganization. Silver and the league office really need to get out in front of it so they can dictate the terms or else the changes will sweep them along and the CBA won't be designed for the new reality.

[DemoleDemolezan]

Who said that white people have a monopoly on racism? Certainly not me. I was referring to this board specifically. White privilege and a failure to even try to understand the black perspective runs rampant here. Stop sidetracking the conversation with irrelevant comments and sucking me into this silly back and forth.

The only thing that was relevant was that your initial post was discriminatory, incorrect and plain stupid. If it was about any other race than white people you would have been warned if not suspended. Sweeping generalizations on people's behaviour based on their race/ethnicity/religion etc. is dangerous and not needed. You sound like a smart guy and you have made some valid points, just try and stay away from the aforementioned, it makes you look ignorant and sabotages any valid point you may have made.

Hilarious. You accused certain Asian countries of being racist and weren't suspended. You are attempting to deflect, and even trying to get the discussion shut down. The idea that only white people have ignorant views on race is straw man, and not even clever straw man either. Just stale, recycled, whining.

I have lived in these Asian countries and witnessed the culture first hand. Countries such as Taiwan, Korea, Japan are incredibly homogenous. An unfortunate side effect of this homogeneity is racism. I haven't and never would say that everyone or even the majority of people in those countries are racist, that's absurd, but to say that racism doesn't strongly exist in those cultures is wrong.

And the second part of your message is agreeing with me, no? My whole argument has been that many races and cultures possess racist and discriminatory attitudes.

[vado]

Not only should the NBA age limit not be lowered, it should be raised. The NBA has it right, MLB and NHL have it wrong. All these punk ass kids should be forced to go to College.

[ubernathan]

There's no good reason for someone to go to college if they can go get a paycheck in the NBA instead. People can go to college after they go to the NBA, if you go to college first there is a huge opportunity cost in prime athletic years.

Not only should the NBA age limit not be lowered, it should be raised. The NBA has it right, MLB and NHL have it wrong. All these punk ass kids should be forced to go to College.

Any reasoning behind this or are you just pounding the table?

[ChosunX]

Not only should the NBA age limit not be lowered, it should be raised. The NBA has it right, MLB and NHL have it wrong. All these punk ass kids should be forced to go to College.

And learn what exactly? Some subject that will be unrelated to their future job even if they get injured and will be regular shmoes?

[Pointgod]

Not only should the NBA age limit not be lowered, it should be raised. The NBA has it right, MLB and NHL have it wrong. All these punk ass kids should be forced to go to College.

That's like your opinion man. So these "punk ass kids" are old enough to sign up for war but not capitalize on their God given talents

[Bill Bradley]

The only thing that was relevant was that your initial post was discriminatory, incorrect and plain stupid. If it was about any other race than white people you would have been warned if not suspended. Sweeping generalizations on people's behaviour based on their race/ethnicity/religion etc. is dangerous and not needed. You sound like a smart guy and you have made some valid points, just try and stay away from the aforementioned, it makes you look ignorant and sabotages any valid point you may have made.

Blah blah blah my original post was accurate and prophetic. And you're right, if it was racist I would be suspended. But it wasn't racist so you should stop backseat moderating. Please read this article: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/reverse ... snt-exist/

"Of course you will get the standard ignorant black guy response..."

You'd get suspended, or at the very least you would yourself be aghast. But it's not that simple, right? No, actually, it is.

I generally respect you, Bill, but your head is lodged deep in the bowels of standpoint theory and other such pseudo-sophisticated essentialist dogma, sphincter epistemically closed shut.

I listen to black scholars and black people who deal with racism every day. I study up on this because I'm an activist and happen to think that all forms of injustice are connected. Posters here pretend like racism doesn't exist but it is all around us. I was pointing out the ignorance displayed by privileged young (presumably) white people on this board and I don't apologize for that. If you don't live it, you can't possibly understand it, and to think that there is no racism inherent in a system that disenfranchises primarily young black men to the benefit of a small group of wealthy white men (some of whom are known racists) just means that people are willfully not paying attention.

[Bill Bradley]

Blah blah blah my original post was accurate and prophetic. And you're right, if it was racist I would be suspended. But it wasn't racist so you should stop backseat moderating. Please read this article: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/reverse ... snt-exist/

"Of course you will get the standard ignorant black guy response..."

You'd get suspended, or at the very least you would yourself be aghast. But it's not that simple, right? No, actually, it is.

I generally respect you, Bill, but your head is lodged deep in the bowels of standpoint theory and other such pseudo-sophisticated essentialist dogma, sphincter epistemically closed shut.

Yeah but black posters don't continually act like they're the authority on another group of people, let's say white women. Someone would be justified in saying that statement if it was consistently true on this board. There's a reason that white people who have actually studied sociology and history tend to be aligned with the views of people of color, or at least are willing to admit that they'll never have full authority on the subject.

Thank you, this is what I've been trying to say. Many white people have such a sense of entitlement that they think they know more about racism than black people, that their voice is more important, and that they have the background to be able to discount the experience of black people. As a white person, I find that shameful and embarrassing. The reason I get so worked about this is because I think that this is a mentality that is increasing and is promoted by our media and mainstream institutions, and it's destroying our country. Reading the comments on this thread frankly make me feel hopeless about our future as a society.

[Yoshun]

The only thing that was relevant was that your initial post was discriminatory, incorrect and plain stupid. If it was about any other race than white people you would have been warned if not suspended. Sweeping generalizations on people's behaviour based on their race/ethnicity/religion etc. is dangerous and not needed. You sound like a smart guy and you have made some valid points, just try and stay away from the aforementioned, it makes you look ignorant and sabotages any valid point you may have made.

Blah blah blah my original post was accurate and prophetic. And you're right, if it was racist I would be suspended. But it wasn't racist so you should stop backseat moderating. Please read this article: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/reverse ... snt-exist/

LOLOLOL. Is this article supposed to be from the Onion. Bro... you can't be serious? Can you? Are you?

"People of color talking about white people don’t occupy positions of privilege or power. Therefore, they cannot be racist. Racism is structural, not personal."

The daily dot is a joke so I was hesitant to read it, but I completely stopped out of disgust when I got to that line.
First of all, it's not called "reverse racism" its called racism. Second of all, there are black people (and coloured people) in positions of power, so that sentence is just straight-up erroneous based on the strength of that alone.

I need to just stop here. To propose that people of colour cannot be racist because they are not in positions of power is just patently idiotic. Frankly,the fact that you suggested that article as part of your already flawed argument makes you an idiot. Like I said, do some travelling, study other cultures, try living in some other countries for extended periods of time and maybe we can revisit this argument. Until then, leave silly internet articles alone and don't argue with people who have actually done those things.

I don't know any about the Daily Dot, but that point of view is held by many people, including civil rights activists, scholars, professors, etc... of many different races, oncluding white.

The idea is that racism in the US is largely institutionalized. The theory being that racism is the practice of holding down one race for the benefit of another. This can only be done from a position of power because those not in power cannot hold down those in power. In the US, the power is pretty firmly in the hands of white individuals. Due to racial stereotypes potentially held by white individuals (those in power), it tends to be beneficial for them to keep other races from obtaining power.

That's just a very quick overview of a complex theory. You may disagree with it, I don't agree with every aspect of it, but you should read up on it first. There has been books written about it and research done regarding the point of view. It's actually interesting.

[Bill Bradley]

Blah blah blah my original post was accurate and prophetic. And you're right, if it was racist I would be suspended. But it wasn't racist so you should stop backseat moderating. Please read this article: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/reverse ... snt-exist/

LOLOLOL. Is this article supposed to be from the Onion. Bro... you can't be serious? Can you? Are you?

"People of color talking about white people don’t occupy positions of privilege or power. Therefore, they cannot be racist. Racism is structural, not personal."

The daily dot is a joke so I was hesitant to read it, but I completely stopped out of disgust when I got to that line.
First of all, it's not called "reverse racism" its called racism. Second of all, there are black people (and coloured people) in positions of power, so that sentence is just straight-up erroneous based on the strength of that alone.

I need to just stop here. To propose that people of colour cannot be racist because they are not in positions of power is just patently idiotic. Frankly,the fact that you suggested that article as part of your already flawed argument makes you an idiot. Like I said, do some travelling, study other cultures, try living in some other countries for extended periods of time and maybe we can revisit this argument. Until then, leave silly internet articles alone and don't argue with people who have actually done those things.

I don't know any about the Daily Dot, but that point of view is held by many people, including civil rights activists, scholars, professors, etc... of many different races, oncluding white.

The idea is that racism in the US is largely institutionalized. The theory being that racism is the practice of holding down one race for the benefit of another. This can only be done from a position of power because those not in power cannot hold down those in power. In the US, the power is pretty firmly in the hands of white individuals. Due to racial stereotypes potentially held by white individuals (those in power), it tends to be beneficial for them to keep other races from obtaining power.

That's just a very quick overview of a complex theory. You may disagree with it, I don't agree with every aspect of it, but you should read up on it first. There has been books written about it and research done regarding the point of view. It's actually interesting.

Exactly, I just chose that article among many because I thought it was put in the simplest terms for beginners to understand. This is the prevailing view among those who study this for a living.

[wigglestrue]

Blah blah blah my original post was accurate and prophetic. And you're right, if it was racist I would be suspended. But it wasn't racist so you should stop backseat moderating. Please read this article: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/reverse ... snt-exist/

"Of course you will get the standard ignorant black guy response..."

You'd get suspended, or at the very least you would yourself be aghast. But it's not that simple, right? No, actually, it is.

I generally respect you, Bill, but your head is lodged deep in the bowels of standpoint theory and other such pseudo-sophisticated essentialist dogma, sphincter epistemically closed shut.

Yeah but black posters don't continually act like they're the authority on another group of people, let's say white women. Someone would be justified in saying that statement if it was consistently true on this board. There's a reason that white people who have actually studied sociology and history tend to be aligned with the views of people of color, or at least are willing to admit that they'll never have full authority on the subject.

Dude, you have it exactly backwards. It's the sociology majors who insist that black people are the only authority on racism and that white people should shut up and listen because white people's perceptions are hopelessly limited by a racism which they can never themselves objectively evaluate or discharge from themselves. Same sociology majors who have redefined racism to be exclusively a systemic, atmospheric matter which is proven beyond a reasonable doubt at the first sign of an aggregate statistical discrepancy in any and all outcomes no matter how relatively small or otherwise rationally explained. As opposed to the sin of racism primarily being rooted in the belief that one can generalize about the character and situation of an entire race. Because, well, ****, if that's the case, then the sociology majors couldn't get away with generalizing about stuff like What It Means for You to Be White and they might be forced to stick to what is ultimately the more difficult, more logical, less sensational, less mystical, and more self-implicating job of class analysis.

To this, their retort in self-defense would be some elongated form of the buzzword "Intersectionality!", which is like "Abracadabra!" in that they get to hand-wave away all your perfectly reasonable and substantive objections and ease all their cerebral discomfort from being ironically-racist "antiracists" and return to the circular logic of their pet doctrine of Privilege and how you can't see It, smell It, or touch It but it's there all around you, on you, in you and how you are doomed to be a wicked villain until you repent for the sins of your race and convert to their ideologically-pure point of view. It's a fancy, prestigious cult. Sociology today is synonymous with brute political conditioning, as bad and intellectually dishonest or at best deluded as anything in the shrill right-wing media except with more stats and a bigger vocabulary used to more cleverly and eloquently misrepresent reality and to more reliably condition your impressionable brain.

[DemoleDemolezan]

Blah blah blah my original post was accurate and prophetic. And you're right, if it was racist I would be suspended. But it wasn't racist so you should stop backseat moderating. Please read this article: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/reverse ... snt-exist/

LOLOLOL. Is this article supposed to be from the Onion. Bro... you can't be serious? Can you? Are you?

"People of color talking about white people don’t occupy positions of privilege or power. Therefore, they cannot be racist. Racism is structural, not personal."

The daily dot is a joke so I was hesitant to read it, but I completely stopped out of disgust when I got to that line.
First of all, it's not called "reverse racism" its called racism. Second of all, there are black people (and coloured people) in positions of power, so that sentence is just straight-up erroneous based on the strength of that alone.

I need to just stop here. To propose that people of colour cannot be racist because they are not in positions of power is just patently idiotic. Frankly,the fact that you suggested that article as part of your already flawed argument makes you an idiot. Like I said, do some travelling, study other cultures, try living in some other countries for extended periods of time and maybe we can revisit this argument. Until then, leave silly internet articles alone and don't argue with people who have actually done those things.

I don't know any about the Daily Dot, but that point of view is held by many people, including civil rights activists, scholars, professors, etc... of many different races, oncluding white.

The idea is that racism in the US is largely institutionalized. The theory being that racism is the practice of holding down one race for the benefit of another. This can only be done from a position of power because those not in power cannot hold down those in power. In the US, the power is pretty firmly in the hands of white individuals. Due to racial stereotypes potentially held by white individuals (those in power), it tends to be beneficial for them to keep other races from obtaining power.

That's just a very quick overview of a complex theory. You may disagree with it, I don't agree with every aspect of it, but you should read up on it first. There has been books written about it and research done regarding the point of view. It's actually interesting.

Key words, "in the US". My whole point during this back and forth with Bill Bradley or whatever his name is that racism is not just an American issue and it is much more dynamic than he understands. He seems literally incapable of viewing things from a non-American perspective. It's extremely frustrating.

[~ TeRRoR SquaD ~]

C'mon now.. black people need to stop using the race card...it's 2015 not the 16th century.

[ropjhk]

The age limit is not racist at all. Those calling it racist are doing anti racism efforts a disfavor by drawing attention away from issues that are truly racist. The NBA didn't create the policy thinking "black kids need to stay in school, so we won't let them play in our league". They created the policy essentially because high schoolers are much harder to scout than 1 year college players.

Anybody who's been around long enough should remember what the NBA was like right before the rule got implemented. High school players were dominating drafts and too many of them were underperforming on the court. Teams were being forced to waste picks and roster spots on high schoolers because the best talent was skipping college. Problem was that there is not enough players like Kevin Garnett or Kobe Bryant and too many like Kwame Brown.

Each NBA team is a business, and in business you want to reduce risk. More scouting => less risk. Older players in draft => less development costs for the NBA. The business case for the age limit is a clear slam dunk and no racist motivations are needed at all to justify it.

[Neutral 123]

The only thing that was relevant was that your initial post was discriminatory, incorrect and plain stupid. If it was about any other race than white people you would have been warned if not suspended. Sweeping generalizations on people's behaviour based on their race/ethnicity/religion etc. is dangerous and not needed. You sound like a smart guy and you have made some valid points, just try and stay away from the aforementioned, it makes you look ignorant and sabotages any valid point you may have made.

Hilarious. You accused certain Asian countries of being racist and weren't suspended. You are attempting to deflect, and even trying to get the discussion shut down. The idea that only white people have ignorant views on race is straw man, and not even clever straw man either. Just stale, recycled, whining.

I have lived in these Asian countries and witnessed the culture first hand. Countries such as Taiwan, Korea, Japan are incredibly homogenous. An unfortunate side effect of this homogeneity is racism. I haven't and never would say that everyone or even the majority of people in those countries are racist, that's absurd, but to say that racism doesn't strongly exist in those cultures is wrong.

And the second part of your message is agreeing with me, no? My whole argument has been that many races and cultures possess racist and discriminatory attitudes.

You are attempting to distract from the topic at hand. No one is stopping you from discussing xenophobia in Asian countries. Its irrelevant to this debate as no one has claimed only white people can be hateful of other groups. Instead of discussing the topic, you are deflecting, distracting and baiting with personal attacks.

[Neutral 123]

The age limit is not racist at all. Those calling it racist are doing anti racism efforts a disfavor by drawing attention away from issues that are truly racist. The NBA didn't create the policy thinking "black kids need to stay in school, so we won't let them play in our league". They created the policy essentially because high schoolers are much harder to scout than 1 year college players.

Anybody who's been around long enough should remember what the NBA was like right before the rule got implemented. High school players were dominating drafts and too many of them were underperforming on the court. Teams were being forced to waste picks and roster spots on high schoolers because the best talent was skipping college. Problem was that there is not enough players like Kevin Garnett or Kobe Bryant and too many like Kwame Brown.

Each NBA team is a business, and in business you want to reduce risk. More scouting => less risk. Older players in draft => less development costs for the NBA. The business case for the age limit is a clear slam dunk and no racist motivations are needed at all to justify it.

There are busts in every draft, picked from any position, any age. It's illegal, and can only exist legally if the union agrees to it. It looks like they are done giving up human rights as a condition to getting an agreement done with the NBA.

[Neutral 123]

C'mon now.. black people need to stop using the race card...it's 2015 not the 16th century.

What is the race card? Like a 3 of clubs? Its not much of a card, so if it keeps getting played it would seem the deck's been tampered with.

[wigglestrue]

Bill, I know you guys on the far left have owned the issue of racism ever since Scottsboro and I'm truly glad you did and have since, because America truly was a racist hellhole then and I thank the gods -- really -- that there were so many pinkos who were willing to take a stand against the prevailing American consensus, regardless of the why, even if it was ultimately a prong in a campaign to eventually overthrow the economic and political system, because, ****, somebody had to do it, and apart from the socialists there were way too few segments of white America willing to do so, back then.

Bad news: Your side is now, and has been for a few decades, the one doing the most to keep dying and dead racist concepts alive, like Bernie. Not just keep vigil against continued or new racism, which of COURSE must always be done (AHEM), you are literally sustaining and even resurrecting and STRENGTHENING ideas about racial essences, despite however much you declaim your nuanced understanding that race is just an illusion invented by society, you still wind up trading in the same basic blanket assumptions about people's character and circumstances based on NOTHING but their race, ideas that should have died a long time ago. The fact that you yet again are telling me that I will never understand something because of my race...just amazing, amazing hypocrisy at a core philosophical level. Have you ever spent much time pondering the question, "OH MY GOD WHAT IF I'VE BECOME THE ENEMY WITHOUT REALIZING IT?"