NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[Neutral 123]

Bill's a white guy with strong opinions and self-proclaimed knowledge of racism who said white people can't have an strong opinions and knowledge of racism. [cognitive dissonance]

I've said throughout this thread that I have actually talked to black people and listened to and tried to understand the black perspective when it comes to race. I suggest everybody does this- really listen instead of defending yourself or pretending racism doesn't exist. I never said white people can't have strong opinions or knowledge about racism. I have simply said that we can't fully understand the experience of being black in America if we have not lived it ourselves.

If you want to understand racism, listen to the perspectives of those who experience it. It seems that few people who have posted here have really done that. Mostly they're just denying that racism even exists.

Exactly.

[DemoleDemolezan]

The issue racists have with Sharpton is that he will call out racists everywhere. He offers a voice where injustices are covered up. He may not be the hero people want, but he's the one people need. He's the only right now, with the voice big enough, to speak up and out for freedom.

Did you just quote a Batman movie?
So people who have issues with Sharpton are by default racists? What about the family in the article? Did you even read it? If you cared to listen you would find out that alot of black people really do not like him. If really you think he's speaking out for freedom and not his own interests then I feel sorry for you.

Read it for what? We already know why a lot of people take issue with Sharpton. They do not like the fact that he stands up for cases of racial injustice. He's called a race baiter. People like Al help push things forward. If it wasn't for agitators, freedom fighters like Al, blacks would still have to sneak in the back door of vet offices to get dental treatment, because that is what was deemed 'fair' and just to many whites not that long ago. He won't be celebrated in the same vein as Lincoln, or Ghandi, but he should be.

You're hilarious. I honestly think you're trolling me right now.
If you actually read the link you would see that it is a black family talking about how Sharpton has hijacked the funeral of their loved one for his own selfish gain. What does that have to do with race baiting?
And I really can't believe that you are calling him a freedom fighter who should be revered like the likes of Ghandhi, Mandela, etc.
You are a total joke.

[ingvald]

Read it for what? We already know why a lot of people take issue with Sharpton. They do not like the fact that he stands up for cases of racial injustice. He's called a race baiter. People like Al help push things forward. If it wasn't for agitators, freedom fighters like Al, blacks would still have to sneak in the back door of vet offices to get dental treatment, because that is what was deemed 'fair' and just to many whites not that long ago. He won't be celebrated in the same vein as Lincoln, or Ghandi, but he should be.

Sorry, Neutral. Sharpton stands up for many good cases of racial injustice but he has also chosen a number of very poor cases as well. Maybe he's well-intentioned, maybe he just has bad advisors. Personally, I think he (like most politicians) seeks to exploit things for his own personal gain. At some times, I believe he is a race baiter.

Lincoln and Ghandi never championed a cause like Tawana Brawley.

IMO, he's really no better or worse than most politicians. A lot of people don't like him because he's black. But he has significant credibility issues for me.

[Neutral 123]

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/new-yor ... id/611457/

"Blacks" don't want one Al Sharpton.

And yes this is just one example but it is very indicative of his overall behaviour.
Do you really think the world needs a thousand of this type of person?

The issue racists have with Sharpton is that he will call out racists everywhere. He offers a voice where injustices are covered up. He may not be the hero people want, but he's the one people need. He's the only right now, with the voice big enough, to speak up and out for freedom.

No he's for the the black race and gains off stirring up racism out of everything. I don't see him anywhere when there is a hate crime of blacks killing someone who is white.

He doesn't have to do that because when blacks kill whites, they are actually put on trial. Remember Trayvon Martin? Some guy sees him, runs after him with a gun and shoots him dead, and there want even going to be a trial! That's why Sharpton had to get involved. After murdering this child, racist white Americans stood up in unison to help pay for his defense. How sick is that?

[Neutral 123]

Did you just quote a Batman movie?
So people who have issues with Sharpton are by default racists? What about the family in the article? Did you even read it? If you cared to listen you would find out that alot of black people really do not like him. If really you think he's speaking out for freedom and not his own interests then I feel sorry for you.

Read it for what? We already know why a lot of people take issue with Sharpton. They do not like the fact that he stands up for cases of racial injustice. He's called a race baiter. People like Al help push things forward. If it wasn't for agitators, freedom fighters like Al, blacks would still have to sneak in the back door of vet offices to get dental treatment, because that is what was deemed 'fair' and just to many whites not that long ago. He won't be celebrated in the same vein as Lincoln, or Ghandi, but he should be.

You're hilarious. I honestly think you're trolling me right now.
If you actually read the link you would see that it is a black family talking about how Sharpton has hijacked the funeral of their loved one for his own selfish gain. What does that have to do with race baiting?
And I really can't believe that you are calling him a freedom fighter who should be revered like the likes of Ghandhi, Mandela, etc.
You are a total joke.

Again, racists don't care that he 'highjacked' a funeral. They hate that he speaks out on racial injustice. Rallying support for racial injustice isn't race baiting, its necessary to gain attention and uncover the inevitable cover up.

[Bill Bradley]

Wow! Bill has actually talked to black people. That is some pretty amazing stuff. No wonder you are so well versed on the topic of racism. Clearly, no one should have a problem with you being the spokesperson for all POC on RealGM.

I suggest you do it more often yourself. Maybe even read a book or two on the topic. I have published them myself as a book publisher and worked closely with black activist authors.

Whenever you're talking about any social justice issue- racism, feminism, homophobia, etc. you have to really try to understand the perspective of those who experience the injustice. Otherwise, you're just coming from a place of privilege and are not adding anything to the conversation other than ignorance.

This seems obvious- listen to those who experience racism. But yet you seem to have never done so, despite all of your travels throughout Asia

and you know I haven't done any of that because....?
Do you have a link to said book. I am honestly curious.

This one I published as an academic paper.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8908000797

[Cliff Levingston]

He doesn't have to do that because when blacks kill whites, they are actually put on trial. Remember Trayvon Martin? Some guy sees him, runs after him with a gun and shoots him dead, and there want even going to be a trial! That's why Sharpton had to get involved. After murdering this child, racist white Americans stood up in unison to help pay for his defense. How sick is that?

Using the Trayvon Martin case isn't a good one to be making your case. Zimmerman was acquitted.

[DemoleDemolezan]

I suggest you do it more often yourself. Maybe even read a book or two on the topic. I have published them myself as a book publisher and worked closely with black activist authors.

Whenever you're talking about any social justice issue- racism, feminism, homophobia, etc. you have to really try to understand the perspective of those who experience the injustice. Otherwise, you're just coming from a place of privilege and are not adding anything to the conversation other than ignorance.

This seems obvious- listen to those who experience racism. But yet you seem to have never done so, despite all of your travels throughout Asia

and you know I haven't done any of that because....?
Do you have a link to said book. I am honestly curious.

This one I published as an academic paper.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8908000797

Interesting. While I still don't agree with your initial comment it seems that you do have much more credibility and experience with regards to this topic than the average person. Now, what that idiot is saying about that crook Sharpton, however is straight up wrong.

[Bill Bradley]

http://www.amazon.com/Circles-Compassio ... 1940184061

That shed more than enough light on where you fall on the political spectrum, not just this issue but many others.

Thanks.

I'm done.

This book is about how different forms of social injustice are connected. If you think it's a bad thing to be against injustice, I feel sorry for you.

Seems like resorting to personal attacks is how this thread will end. Some of you have run out of anything substantive to say.

[Neutral 123]

Read it for what? We already know why a lot of people take issue with Sharpton. They do not like the fact that he stands up for cases of racial injustice. He's called a race baiter. People like Al help push things forward. If it wasn't for agitators, freedom fighters like Al, blacks would still have to sneak in the back door of vet offices to get dental treatment, because that is what was deemed 'fair' and just to many whites not that long ago. He won't be celebrated in the same vein as Lincoln, or Ghandi, but he should be.

Sorry, Neutral. Sharpton stands up for many good cases of racial injustice but he has also chosen a number of very poor cases as well. Maybe he's well-intentioned, maybe he just has bad advisors. Personally, I think he (like most politicians) seeks to exploit things for his own personal gain. At some times, I believe he is a race baiter.

Lincoln and Ghandi never championed a cause like Tawana Brawley.

IMO, he's really no better or worse than most politicians. A lot of people don't like him because he's black. But he has significant credibility issues for me.

I've heard Al speak on that case. I never got the impression he was self interested. Maybe overzealous and should have waited before holding the news conference, but let's get real here, even without Brawley, the issue is he is a voice where racial injustice exists. This is no different from people who dislike the women's rights movement. Leaders will be looked at as agitators, and be attacked personally. Al may not be perfect, but I'd much rather live in a world with people like him, than in one where abusers, killers are allowed to run around with impunity.

[Bill Bradley]

He doesn't have to do that because when blacks kill whites, they are actually put on trial. Remember Trayvon Martin? Some guy sees him, runs after him with a gun and shoots him dead, and there want even going to be a trial! That's why Sharpton had to get involved. After murdering this child, racist white Americans stood up in unison to help pay for his defense. How sick is that?

Using the Trayvon Martin case isn't a good one to be making your case. Zimmerman was acquitted.

Really? The fact that he was acquitted says more about race in America than anything else. He's been arrested for violent behavior four times since then.

[Neutral 123]

He doesn't have to do that because when blacks kill whites, they are actually put on trial. Remember Trayvon Martin? Some guy sees him, runs after him with a gun and shoots him dead, and there want even going to be a trial! That's why Sharpton had to get involved. After murdering this child, racist white Americans stood up in unison to help pay for his defense. How sick is that?

Using the Trayvon Martin case isn't a good one to be making your case. Zimmerman was acquitted.

Of course he was. Because racism doesn't exist. Now everyone can go to bed tonight knowing everything is right in the world.

[Cliff Levingston]

He doesn't have to do that because when blacks kill whites, they are actually put on trial. Remember Trayvon Martin? Some guy sees him, runs after him with a gun and shoots him dead, and there want even going to be a trial! That's why Sharpton had to get involved. After murdering this child, racist white Americans stood up in unison to help pay for his defense. How sick is that?

Using the Trayvon Martin case isn't a good one to be making your case. Zimmerman was acquitted.

Of course he was. Because racism doesn't exist. Now everyone can go to bed tonight knowing everything is right in the world.

Sweet. Sleep tight man.

[DemoleDemolezan]

Read it for what? We already know why a lot of people take issue with Sharpton. They do not like the fact that he stands up for cases of racial injustice. He's called a race baiter. People like Al help push things forward. If it wasn't for agitators, freedom fighters like Al, blacks would still have to sneak in the back door of vet offices to get dental treatment, because that is what was deemed 'fair' and just to many whites not that long ago. He won't be celebrated in the same vein as Lincoln, or Ghandi, but he should be.

You're hilarious. I honestly think you're trolling me right now.
If you actually read the link you would see that it is a black family talking about how Sharpton has hijacked the funeral of their loved one for his own selfish gain. What does that have to do with race baiting?
And I really can't believe that you are calling him a freedom fighter who should be revered like the likes of Ghandhi, Mandela, etc.
You are a total joke.

Again, racists don't card that he 'highjacked' a funeral. They hate that he speaks out on racial injustice. Rallying support for racial injustice isn't race baiting, its necessary to gain attention and uncover the inevitable cover up.

Would a freedom fighter have;

- Created a hysteria that ultimately got a innocent student murdered?
- Led an anti-Semitic march?
- Lie about a woman being raped and accuse innocent people?
- Refer to white people as "crackers" and gay men as "homos"
- Sponsor predatory loans?
- Be a paid government informant?
- Evade his taxes?

Can you actually refute these facts or will you continue talking out of pure ignorance?

[ingvald]

http://www.amazon.com/Circles-Compassio ... 1940184061

That shed more than enough light on where you fall on the political spectrum, not just this issue but many others.

Thanks.

I'm done.

This book is about how different forms of social injustice are connected. If you think it's a bad thing to be against injustice, I feel sorry for you.

Seems like resorting to personal attacks is how this thread will end. Some of you have run out of anything substantive to say.

Please explain my "personal attack" on you? I said it shed more than enough light on where you fall on the political spectrum. Without reading the book, the description as "the interconnection of animal rights, veganism, and racism" is demonstrates that you're pretty far left on the political spectrum. If that insults you or is construed as some kind of personal attack, I don't know what to say other than you must be embarrassed of your political stance.

With that- I'm out.

[Neutral 123]

You're hilarious. I honestly think you're trolling me right now.
If you actually read the link you would see that it is a black family talking about how Sharpton has hijacked the funeral of their loved one for his own selfish gain. What does that have to do with race baiting?
And I really can't believe that you are calling him a freedom fighter who should be revered like the likes of Ghandhi, Mandela, etc.
You are a total joke.

Again, racists don't card that he 'highjacked' a funeral. They hate that he speaks out on racial injustice. Rallying support for racial injustice isn't race baiting, its necessary to gain attention and uncover the inevitable cover up.

Would a freedom fighter have;

- Created a hysteria that ultimately got a innocent student murdered?
- Led an anti-Semitic march?
- Lie about a woman being raped and accuse innocent people?
- Refer to white people as "crackers" and gay men as "homos"
- Sponsor predatory loans?
- Be a paid government informant?
- Evade his taxes?

Can you actually refute these facts or will you continue talking out of pure ignorance?

Let me say it again. The issue with Al that folks like yourself have is that he speaks out on racial injustice. That is what precipitates the dislike, the insults and the attempts to discredit him. I don't know him personally, although he seems like an incredible person. His issues are not a concern of mine. He is doing good work, work for humanity, God's work. That is true, that is invaluable work, regardless of what personal failings he has, or can be made up to discredit him.

[MaxRider]

Of course you will get the standard ignorant white guy response that it has nothing to do with race. When you're white, it's a lot easier to not see race. But this is clearly a racist policy- one that disproportionately affects black athletes and lines the NCAA's pockets.

Yeah, who wants a free education?

Not everyone, especially one who risks his health and millions of dollars by doing so.

without proper education to manage their money
millions don't mean a thing because they will go broke few years later

[Cliff Levingston]

Let me say it again. The issue with Al that folks like yourself have is that he speaks out on racial injustice. That is what precipitates the dislike, the insults and the attempts to discredit him. I don't know him personally, although he seems like an incredible person. His issues are not a concern of mine. He is doing good work, work for humanity, God's work. That is true, that is invaluable work, regardless of what personal failings he has, or can be made up to discredit him.

Serious question: is there anywhere in America where racial injustice doesn't exist?

[Sixerscan]

Its age discrimination and its illegal. This has already been ruled on. The only reason why its permitted is because the union has agreed to these terms. That's the loophole the NBA is using. As for race, the NBA knows there will be no shortage of media and public support when it comes to limits placed on black people, especially financially. It's not a coincidence that this is only an issue in the 'blackest' sport. It's also not a coincidence when it comes to having blacks work for free, its appropriate and legal apparently for colleges to contact Lebrun's son at 10 for him to go and make money for others. This is American history, American culture.

Its ok to work for nothing but free room and board, and not enough food to not go to bed hungry. This is morally acceptable, financially acceptable in a supposed, capitalist country. How odd, how hypocritical.

I'm sorry but that's not a loophole, it's part of a negotiated contract.

That's like saying the NBA teams are exploiting a loop hole by not paying anyone more than a max contract allowed by the CBA, or the players are exploiting a loophole by making the owners give them 51% of BRI rather than 49% or making the league pay their pensions or something.

If the players want a lower age limit, or no cap on contracts, or pensions, then they should negotiate for it.

I also want to point out that this age limit wasn't put in place during the 1950s or something. It happened in 2006.

Well we can agree to disagree on whether its a loophole. It can only be legal in this framework of contract between union and NBA. Personally, I don't think it should be allowable either way. It was negotiated, but a concession on the part of the union, and one that the union swallowed, at least in part, because the idea that these young black men don't need to be making so much money so soon, or preferably at all, that these young men need to go to college, need to be protected by taking wealth from them, is a pretty old and established attitude in the U.S.

The NBA is exploiting America's racism for their own gains. It's a double standard, and one that exists because of racism.

But, again, many things would be illegal if not for the existence of a contract. That's what a contract is, something that creates additional legal obligations where otherwise they wouldn't exist. Under normal circumstances, you can't make me give you my car. But if we sign a contract that says, as part of the contract, that I have to give you my car, you can.

I'm just bothered by the way the lawyer in the OP, and now you, are acting like this was some sort of clandestine and underhanded move on the part of the league. This was a extremely simple provision openly negotiated with probably the richest union in the world less than a decade ago.

The NBAPA seems to want to absolve themselves of all blame here, like Stern just decided to raise the limit, or they weren't sophisticated actors and got taken advantage of by the big bad owners (Which raises its own set of questions) when in reality they gave up something in a fair negotiation and now they want it back. And that's wrong IMO.

[Neutral 123]

I'm sorry but that's not a loophole, it's part of a negotiated contract.

That's like saying the NBA teams are exploiting a loop hole by not paying anyone more than a max contract allowed by the CBA, or the players are exploiting a loophole by making the owners give them 51% of BRI rather than 49% or making the league pay their pensions or something.

If the players want a lower age limit, or no cap on contracts, or pensions, then they should negotiate for it.

I also want to point out that this age limit wasn't put in place during the 1950s or something. It happened in 2006.

Well we can agree to disagree on whether its a loophole. It can only be legal in this framework of contract between union and NBA. Personally, I don't think it should be allowable either way. It was negotiated, but a concession on the part of the union, and one that the union swallowed, at least in part, because the idea that these young black men don't need to be making so much money so soon, or preferably at all, that these young men need to go to college, need to be protected by taking wealth from them, is a pretty old and established attitude in the U.S.

The NBA is exploiting America's racism for their own gains. It's a double standard, and one that exists because of racism.

But, again, many things would be illegal if not for the existence of a contract. That's what a contract is, something that creates additional legal obligations where otherwise they wouldn't exist. Under normal circumstances, you can't make me give you my car. But if we sign a contract that says, as part of the contract, that I have to give you my car, you can.

I'm just bothered by the way the lawyer in the OP, and now you, are acting like this was some sort of clandestine and underhanded move on the part of the league. This was a extremely simple provision openly negotiated with probably the richest union in the world less than a decade ago.

The NBAPA seems to want to absolve themselves of all blame here, like they weren't sophisticated actors and got taken advantage of by the big bad owners or something (Which raises its own set of questions) when in reality they gave up something in a fair negotiation and now they want it back. And that's wrong IMO.

Age discrimination is illegal, selling your car is not. But to your main point, my contention is the NBA is exploiting racism with this age rule. We've heard this paternal rhetoric for years from Stern himself. The idea that blacks need to concentrate on just being better people and not worry about equal treatment, equal pay. I'd wager, the union, given the current climate sees an opportunity to fight on this point, whereas before, given the climate, it was a fight too much to overcome. But that doesn't change the sentiment. This age rule at the very least, more easily exists, because withholding and taking wealth out of black hands, is perfectly acceptable and is a founding tenet of America.