NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#661 » by Neutral 123 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:29 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: That is why most people don't like him but that's not what you said. You said most don't like him because he's a mouth for those who feel wronged. I feel he's in it for his own selfish reasons and stirs up more racism and divide wiith his views on how society is.

That difference is just a matter of perspective. Challenging racism to many is stirring up more racism. Al is doing God's work. They didn't like him either.

He doesn't challenge it, he makes a living off of it and will create racism if has to to continue making a living off of it. Hell listen to his radio show for 5 mins if you want to hear racism. That guy is one of the biggest racist walking this earth. "The white man this, the white man that, put you're children in all black schools" blah blah blah. I can actually see why you respect him so much though given you share his same views and have a constant thirst for creating racism.

Well I'm a glad you are a fan of his radio show. There's hope for you yet.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#662 » by MotownMadness » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:30 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:That difference is just a matter of perspective. Challenging racism to many is stirring up more racism. Al is doing God's work. They didn't like him either.

He doesn't challenge it, he makes a living off of it and will create racism if has to to continue making a living off of it. Hell listen to his radio show for 5 mins if you want to hear racism. That guy is one of the biggest racist walking this earth. "The white man this, the white man that, put you're children in all black schools" blah blah blah. I can actually see why you respect him so much though given you share his same views and have a constant thirst for creating racism.

Well I'm a glad you are a fan of his radio show. There's hope for you yet.

I like to listen in too the stupidity of some, it's entertaining in the same way I've entertained you're senseless racist crap throughout this thread :lol:
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#663 » by Neutral 123 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:35 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:He doesn't challenge it, he makes a living off of it and will create racism if has to to continue making a living off of it. Hell listen to his radio show for 5 mins if you want to hear racism. That guy is one of the biggest racist walking this earth. "The white man this, the white man that, put you're children in all black schools" blah blah blah. I can actually see why you respect him so much though given you share his same views and have a constant thirst for creating racism.

Well I'm a glad you are a fan of his radio show. There's hope for you yet.

I like to listen in too the stupidity of some, it's entertaining in the same way I've entertained you're senseless racist crap throughout this thread :lol:

When I get my show, I'd welcome your support. We'll be able to celebrate, young men making millions straight out of high school. And we'll finally be able to share in a God Bless America and mean it.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#664 » by wigglestrue » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:37 pm

There is evidence to suggest that African American women are impacted by IPV at higher rates than are Caucasian women, yet little of the IPV literature addresses the cultural and structural factors that differentially affect African American and Caucasian couples.


Bill, how on earth did you manage this research without coming across as racist to yourself? The obvious converse of black women being impacted by domestic violence at higher rates is that black men are guilty of domestic violence at higher rates. The special concern for one must have constantly threatened to turn into special blame for the other. Curious how much that weighed on you. Did you worry that white supremacists might randomly quote your study out of context as evidence of some wretched racist theory about the innate or cultural defectiveness of black males?

A couple questions:

· What was the basic gap in IPV between blacks and whites, and how did you express it? Meaning, if out of every 100 white couples there are two couples plagued by IPV, and out of every 100 black couples there are four, would you say that 1) black couples are twice likely to suffer from IPV? Or would you point out that 2) the difference amounts to a) a single troubled black couple out of 100 solving their issues and b) a single untroubled white couple out of 100 developing new issues? How important do you personally feel it is that 196 out of 200 couples regardless of race would be sharing the same fates re: IPV? In other words, did it trouble you to be emphasizing a small pathological difference between races versus acknowledging the overwhelming commonality?

· Did you control for class, income, wealth?

It has long unnerved me that the social science left uses such relatively small differences compared to total populations to make sweeping statements about the general condition of this or that race. By definition, uncommon problems are going to constitute small sample sizes, no? But I'm sure there's some science-y explanation for why the samples are large enough to be valid. The real problem is that, as I said, when the left focuses on discrepancies between tiny percentages to demonstrate that blacks are 65% or 300% more likely to be in [X] condition or do [X], it is always just a slight edit and sinister cut away from being exactly what a Klan propagandist would want to paste on a newsletter.

The left's interest in magnifying the unique plight of black people might be interfering with the need to remind ourselves that the vast majority of black and white have an equivalent racial counterpart, the vast majority of us are in similar boats, good or bad, high or low, more or less. Constantly seeking discrepancies and expressing them in the largest possible magnitudes puts the left in a twilight zone between antiracism and racism. Ratesism, perhaps? The belief that tiny discrepancies phrased for maximum effect can tell us about the essential nature of being black or being white?

Might need to clarify what I'm saying.
If not, what are your thoughts?
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#665 » by Pointgod » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:38 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: That is why most people don't like him but that's not what you said. You said most don't like him because he's a mouth for those who feel wronged. I feel he's in it for his own selfish reasons and stirs up more racism and divide wiith his views on how society is.


Serious question. How does Al Sharpton stir up more racism? More like he creates a target for racist people to direct their hate at. These people were racist before Al Sharpton and the fact that so many people evoke his name just proves that they have their own prejudice about being reminded about racial inequality.

There is racism and hate crimes everywhere not just against black people. But it's a one sided deal here where only the black man is some victim in some giant racist conspiracy. But it gets ratings and it makes money sadly. Sharpton and the media know this and make a living off of it.


So two questions.
1) Why is there no white Al Sharpton bringing attention to all these hate crimes against white people?
2) Show me where there has been a systemic problem with the way white victims are treated unequally when the suspects is black?
If there is a rash of shootings of black people targeting white people and getting away with it simply because they're white then I'm sure Fox news would have been on top of it a long time ago.

And the absolute honest to God, mind boggling thing is that there are unarmed white people that get killed by police, no one is denying that. But the fact is that bringing up the injustices that black people face and overhauling the justice system would benefit EVERYONE not just black people. But the people are too caught up in crying about Al Sharpton and the fact that black actually "winning" that they would rather defend institutional racism to their own detriment. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#666 » by Sixerscan » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:42 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:Well we can agree to disagree on whether its a loophole. It can only be legal in this framework of contract between union and NBA. Personally, I don't think it should be allowable either way. It was negotiated, but a concession on the part of the union, and one that the union swallowed, at least in part, because the idea that these young black men don't need to be making so much money so soon, or preferably at all, that these young men need to go to college, need to be protected by taking wealth from them, is a pretty old and established attitude in the U.S.

The NBA is exploiting America's racism for their own gains. It's a double standard, and one that exists because of racism.


But, again, many things would be illegal if not for the existence of a contract. That's what a contract is, something that creates additional legal obligations where otherwise they wouldn't exist. Under normal circumstances, you can't make me give you my car. But if we sign a contract that says, as part of the contract, that I have to give you my car, you can.

I'm just bothered by the way the lawyer in the OP, and now you, are acting like this was some sort of clandestine and underhanded move on the part of the league. This was a extremely simple provision openly negotiated with probably the richest union in the world less than a decade ago.

The NBAPA seems to want to absolve themselves of all blame here, like they weren't sophisticated actors and got taken advantage of by the big bad owners or something (Which raises its own set of questions) when in reality they gave up something in a fair negotiation and now they want it back. And that's wrong IMO.

Age discrimination is illegal, selling your car is not. But to your main point, my contention is the NBA is exploiting racism with this age rule. We've heard this paternal rhetoric for years from Stern himself. The idea that blacks need to concentrate on just being better people and not worry about equal treatment, equal pay. I'd wager, the union, given the current climate sees an opportunity to fight on this point, whereas before, given the climate, it was a fight too much to overcome. But that doesn't change the sentiment. This age rule at the very least, more easily exists, because withholding and taking wealth out of black hands, is perfectly acceptable and is a founding tenet of America.


Ok you keep saying this so I feel like I need to clarify. Age discrimination is not illegal. See senior discounts, needing to be 21 to buy beer, how companies give different insurance rates based on how old you are, car rental rates, etc etc etc. Literally, in the constitution, it says you need to be 35 to run for president. Now, age discrimination that doesn't have a rational basis is illegal, but age discrimination is otherwise a very normal and legal part of our lives. And this age limit certainly has a rational basis. So stop saying that.

Yeah, the union sees an opportunity to get something in the next CBA by getting public sympathy. Which is perfectly fine. However, you can't forget that that's what it is, a PR move. Moreover, the way they are handling it is a clear attempt to obscure the point that they agreed to it in the first place. And it's effective. I bet 30% of people on RealGM think that David Stern just decided that the age limit was going up to 19. And this is an NBA obsessed community. Imagine the general public.

Yes, the decided that other things were more worth fighting for in the last CBA. THAT IS WHAT A NEGOTIATION IS. You choose to get some things at the expense of others. The NBA isn't a government program or something. The point isn't to give everyone a fair deal. There is no "fair deal," there's a pie, and two parties are trying to get as much of the pie as possible. In a negotiation like this, you are guaranteed an equal seat at the negotiating table. What you do when you are at that seat is up to you.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#667 » by MotownMadness » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:43 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:Well I'm a glad you are a fan of his radio show. There's hope for you yet.

I like to listen in too the stupidity of some, it's entertaining in the same way I've entertained you're senseless racist crap throughout this thread :lol:

When I get my show, I'd welcome your support. We'll be able to celebrate, young men making millions straight out of high school. And we'll finally be able to share in a God Bless America and mean it.

Judging by you're views and wants, you won't be having a radio show until someone just gives you one. So unfortunately I don't think we will get to go in circles on the radio.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#668 » by MotownMadness » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:47 pm

Pointgod wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Serious question. How does Al Sharpton stir up more racism? More like he creates a target for racist people to direct their hate at. These people were racist before Al Sharpton and the fact that so many people evoke his name just proves that they have their own prejudice about being reminded about racial inequality.

There is racism and hate crimes everywhere not just against black people. But it's a one sided deal here where only the black man is some victim in some giant racist conspiracy. But it gets ratings and it makes money sadly. Sharpton and the media know this and make a living off of it.


So two questions.
1) Why is there no white Al Sharpton bringing attention to all these hate crimes against white people?
2) Show me where there has been a systemic problem with the way white victims are treated unequally when the suspects is black?
If there is a rash of shootings of black people targeting white people and getting away with it simply because they're white then I'm sure Fox news would have been on top of it a long time ago.

And the absolute honest to God, mind boggling thing is that there are unarmed white people that get killed by police, no one is denying that. But the fact is that bringing up the injustices that black people face and overhauling the justice system would benefit EVERYONE not just black people. But the people are too caught up in crying about Al Sharpton and the fact that black actually "winning" that they would rather defend institutional racism to their own detriment. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If there was anything remotely close to a white Al Sharpton he would be labeled a racist in 5 secs and that's about all the air time he would receive :lol: And first show me this rash shooting of whites on blacks, besides for the Ferguson and Trayvon where Sharpton and the media feasted like it was the end of the world. It's a giant conspiracy and scapegoat to use for gains. I mean Jeffrey Dahmer ate a black guy but trust me the rest of us don't want to eat you. You can't just escalate the events of one individual acting out in a hate crime and then say that's how the country and white people think.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#669 » by Neutral 123 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:55 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
But, again, many things would be illegal if not for the existence of a contract. That's what a contract is, something that creates additional legal obligations where otherwise they wouldn't exist. Under normal circumstances, you can't make me give you my car. But if we sign a contract that says, as part of the contract, that I have to give you my car, you can.

I'm just bothered by the way the lawyer in the OP, and now you, are acting like this was some sort of clandestine and underhanded move on the part of the league. This was a extremely simple provision openly negotiated with probably the richest union in the world less than a decade ago.

The NBAPA seems to want to absolve themselves of all blame here, like they weren't sophisticated actors and got taken advantage of by the big bad owners or something (Which raises its own set of questions) when in reality they gave up something in a fair negotiation and now they want it back. And that's wrong IMO.

Age discrimination is illegal, selling your car is not. But to your main point, my contention is the NBA is exploiting racism with this age rule. We've heard this paternal rhetoric for years from Stern himself. The idea that blacks need to concentrate on just being better people and not worry about equal treatment, equal pay. I'd wager, the union, given the current climate sees an opportunity to fight on this point, whereas before, given the climate, it was a fight too much to overcome. But that doesn't change the sentiment. This age rule at the very least, more easily exists, because withholding and taking wealth out of black hands, is perfectly acceptable and is a founding tenet of America.


Ok you keep saying this so I feel like I need to clarify. Age discrimination is not illegal. See senior discounts, needing to be 21 to buy beer, how companies give different insurance rates based on how old you are, car rental rates, etc etc etc. Literally, in the constitution, it says you need to be 35 to run for president. Now, age discrimination that doesn't have a rational basis is illegal, but age discrimination is otherwise a very normal and legal part of our lives. And this age limit certainly has a rational basis. So stop saying that.

Yeah, the union sees an opportunity to get something in the next CBA by getting public sympathy. Which is perfectly fine. However, you can't forget that that's what it is, a PR move. Moreover, the way they are handling it is a clear attempt to obscure the point that they agreed to it in the first place. And it's effective. I bet 30% of people think that David Stern just decided that the age limit was going up to 19. And this is an NBA obsessed community. Imagine the general public.

Yes, the decided that other things were more worth fighting for in the last CBA. THAT IS WHAT A NEGOTIATION IS. You choose to get some things at the expense of others. The NBA isn't a government program or something. The point isn't to give everyone a fair deal. There is no "fair deal," there's a pie, and two parties are trying to get as much of the pie as possible. In a negotiation like this, you are guaranteed an equal seat at the negotiating table. What you do when you are at that seat is up to you.

Yep, and its already been ruled that there is no rational basis for age discrimination when it comes to the draft. At least when it comes to those 18 and older.

As for negotiations, my point still stands, a racist society makes it easier for the NBA to get away with this. Public sentiment matters, media sentiment matters, and now, there's the possibility that the union might actually have a more sympathetic ear. Yes, you can blame the union for conceding I suppose, but this was a tough point for the union to win on, in large part due to racism, a racial double standard.

That's all my point really was. I think the dofference of opinion between us is that I'm not seeing this as a level playing field. Obviously things are tilted towards ownership because they have the deeper pockets, but because of the racial aspect, they'll also get quite a bit more public and media support. Hopefully that's changing, and people can see that what is going on with the age requirement, and even more in the NCAA is wrong and needs to change.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#670 » by Yoshun » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:01 pm

MotownMadness wrote: If there was anything remotely close to a white Al Sharpton he would be labeled a racist in 5 secs and that's about all the air time he would receive :lol: And first show me this rash shooting of whites on blacks, besides for the Ferguson and Trayvon where Sharpton and the media feasted like it was the end of the world. It's a giant conspiracy and scapegoat to use for gains. I mean Jeffrey Dahmer ate a black guy but trust me the rest of us don't want to eat you. You can't just escalate the events of one individual acting out in a hate crime and then say that's how the country and white people think.


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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#671 » by MotownMadness » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:03 pm

Yoshun wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: If there was anything remotely close to a white Al Sharpton he would be labeled a racist in 5 secs and that's about all the air time he would receive :lol: And first show me this rash shooting of whites on blacks, besides for the Ferguson and Trayvon where Sharpton and the media feasted like it was the end of the world. It's a giant conspiracy and scapegoat to use for gains. I mean Jeffrey Dahmer ate a black guy but trust me the rest of us don't want to eat you. You can't just escalate the events of one individual acting out in a hate crime and then say that's how the country and white people think.


Image

K :lol:
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#672 » by Pointgod » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:04 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: There is racism and hate crimes everywhere not just against black people. But it's a one sided deal here where only the black man is some victim in some giant racist conspiracy. But it gets ratings and it makes money sadly. Sharpton and the media know this and make a living off of it.


So two questions.
1) Why is there no white Al Sharpton bringing attention to all these hate crimes against white people?
2) Show me where there has been a systemic problem with the way white victims are treated unequally when the suspects is black?
If there is a rash of shootings of black people targeting white people and getting away with it simply because they're white then I'm sure Fox news would have been on top of it a long time ago.

And the absolute honest to God, mind boggling thing is that there are unarmed white people that get killed by police, no one is denying that. But the fact is that bringing up the injustices that black people face and overhauling the justice system would benefit EVERYONE not just black people. But the people are too caught up in crying about Al Sharpton and the fact that black actually "winning" that they would rather defend institutional racism to their own detriment. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If there was anything remotely close to a white Al Sharpton he would be labeled a racist in 5 secs and that's about all the air time he would receive :lol: And first show me this rash shooting of whites on blacks, besides for the Ferguson and Trayvon where Sharpton and the media feasted like it was the end of the world. It's a giant conspiracy and scapegoat to use for gains. I mean Jeffrey Dahmer ate a black guy but trust me the rest of us don't want to eat you. You can't just escalate the events of one individual acting out in a hate crime and then say that's how the country and white people think.


How would a white Al Sharpton be labelled a racist if there was an actual systemic racism going on against white people. And do you honestly believe that these shootings don't happen because they're not covered by the media? There are ALOT more shootings of black men by police than people see on tv. Just this week alone there were 2 shootings of unarmed black men, one of them was NAKED when he was killed by police. I'm sure if I did time to research it there are way more occurrences than either of us care to know about. There have been multiple papers, studies, reports and scholarly articles that show proof of the institutionalized racism in the justice department. It's not just individual people. The DOJ report on Ferguson highlighted how corrupt and racist just one police force is, imagine what they'd find if they did that for all of them in the country. There's a bigger issue that people like you choose to willfully ignore and for some reason just continue to hate Al Sharpton.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#673 » by Sixerscan » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:04 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:Age discrimination is illegal, selling your car is not. But to your main point, my contention is the NBA is exploiting racism with this age rule. We've heard this paternal rhetoric for years from Stern himself. The idea that blacks need to concentrate on just being better people and not worry about equal treatment, equal pay. I'd wager, the union, given the current climate sees an opportunity to fight on this point, whereas before, given the climate, it was a fight too much to overcome. But that doesn't change the sentiment. This age rule at the very least, more easily exists, because withholding and taking wealth out of black hands, is perfectly acceptable and is a founding tenet of America.


Ok you keep saying this so I feel like I need to clarify. Age discrimination is not illegal. See senior discounts, needing to be 21 to buy beer, how companies give different insurance rates based on how old you are, car rental rates, etc etc etc. Literally, in the constitution, it says you need to be 35 to run for president. Now, age discrimination that doesn't have a rational basis is illegal, but age discrimination is otherwise a very normal and legal part of our lives. And this age limit certainly has a rational basis. So stop saying that.

Yeah, the union sees an opportunity to get something in the next CBA by getting public sympathy. Which is perfectly fine. However, you can't forget that that's what it is, a PR move. Moreover, the way they are handling it is a clear attempt to obscure the point that they agreed to it in the first place. And it's effective. I bet 30% of people think that David Stern just decided that the age limit was going up to 19. And this is an NBA obsessed community. Imagine the general public.

Yes, the decided that other things were more worth fighting for in the last CBA. THAT IS WHAT A NEGOTIATION IS. You choose to get some things at the expense of others. The NBA isn't a government program or something. The point isn't to give everyone a fair deal. There is no "fair deal," there's a pie, and two parties are trying to get as much of the pie as possible. In a negotiation like this, you are guaranteed an equal seat at the negotiating table. What you do when you are at that seat is up to you.

Yep, and its already been ruled that there is no rational basis for age discrimination when it comes to the draft. At least when it comes to those 18 and older.

As for negotiations, my point still stands, a racist society makes it easier for the NBA to get away with this. Public sentiment matters, media sentiment matters, and now, there's the possibility that the union might actually have a more sympathetic ear. Yes, you can blame the union for conceding I suppose, but this was a tough point for the union to win on, in large part due to racism, a racial double standard.

That's all my point really was. I think the dofference of opinion between us is that I'm not seeing this as a level playing field. Obviously things are tilted towards ownership because they have the deeper pockets, but because of the racial aspect, they'll also get quite a bit more public and media support. Hopefully that's changing, and people can see that what is going on with the age requirement, and even more in the NCAA is wrong and needs to change.

Who ruled that? A court? I must have missed that.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#674 » by MotownMadness » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:06 pm

Pointgod wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
So two questions.
1) Why is there no white Al Sharpton bringing attention to all these hate crimes against white people?
2) Show me where there has been a systemic problem with the way white victims are treated unequally when the suspects is black?
If there is a rash of shootings of black people targeting white people and getting away with it simply because they're white then I'm sure Fox news would have been on top of it a long time ago.

And the absolute honest to God, mind boggling thing is that there are unarmed white people that get killed by police, no one is denying that. But the fact is that bringing up the injustices that black people face and overhauling the justice system would benefit EVERYONE not just black people. But the people are too caught up in crying about Al Sharpton and the fact that black actually "winning" that they would rather defend institutional racism to their own detriment. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If there was anything remotely close to a white Al Sharpton he would be labeled a racist in 5 secs and that's about all the air time he would receive :lol: And first show me this rash shooting of whites on blacks, besides for the Ferguson and Trayvon where Sharpton and the media feasted like it was the end of the world. It's a giant conspiracy and scapegoat to use for gains. I mean Jeffrey Dahmer ate a black guy but trust me the rest of us don't want to eat you. You can't just escalate the events of one individual acting out in a hate crime and then say that's how the country and white people think.


How would a white Al Sharpton be labelled a racist if there was an actual systemic racism going on against white people. And do you honestly believe that these shootings don't happen because they're not covered by the media? There are ALOT more shootings of black men by police than people see on tv. Just this week alone there were 2 shootings of unarmed black men, one of them was NAKED when he was killed by police. I'm sure if I did time to research it there are way more occurrences than either of us care to know about. There have been multiple papers, studies, reports and scholarly articles that show proof of the institutionalized racism in the justice department. It's not just individual people. The DOJ report on Ferguson highlighted how corrupt and racist just one police force is, imagine what they'd find if they did that for all of them in the country. There's a bigger issue that people like you choose to willfully ignore and for some reason just continue to hate Al Sharpton.

And just today two cops were shot in Ferguson. Now if it comes out that it was white cops that got shot by a black man should Sharpton get back in his jet and fly down there? And most definitely if there was a white AlSharpton he would instantly be labeled a racist. He'll the NBA is now racist because they want to change the age limit :lol:
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#675 » by Yoshun » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:11 pm

MotownMadness wrote:K :lol:


You can stick smilies in your posts all you want, it doesn't change what you're doing. About 90% of your posts in this thread haven't actually been on the thread topic. You're too focused on this "Campaign against the 'race-card'" to really discuss what's actually going on here. You just keep bringing up these misinterpretations of what people are saying, than refuting the misinterpretations. At first I thought you were doing it by accident, but I refuse to believe someone can do it that many times by accident.

Why don't you talk about race as it pertains to the NBA age limit.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#676 » by MotownMadness » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:13 pm

Yoshun wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:K :lol:


You can stick smilies in your posts all you want, it doesn't change what you're doing. About 90% of your posts in this thread haven't actually been on the thread topic. You're too focused on this "Campaign against the 'race-card'" to really discuss what's actually going on here. You just keep bringing up these misinterpretations of what people are saying, than refuting the misinterpretations. At first I thought you were doing it by accident, but I refuse to believe someone can do it that many times by accident.

Why don't you talk about race as it pertains to the NBA age limit.

Because race has nothing to do with the NBA age limit :crazy:. It's a scapegoat to get what they want in negotiations because everyone is scared to be labeled a racist in the media and some of you're black leaders know this and that's the card they like to play.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#677 » by wigglestrue » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:16 pm

Pointgod wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Serious question. How does Al Sharpton stir up more racism? More like he creates a target for racist people to direct their hate at. These people were racist before Al Sharpton and the fact that so many people evoke his name just proves that they have their own prejudice about being reminded about racial inequality.

There is racism and hate crimes everywhere not just against black people. But it's a one sided deal here where only the black man is some victim in some giant racist conspiracy. But it gets ratings and it makes money sadly. Sharpton and the media know this and make a living off of it.


So two questions.
1) Why is there no white Al Sharpton bringing attention to all these hate crimes against white people?
2) Show me where there has been a systemic problem with the way white victims are treated unequally when the suspects is black?
If there is a rash of shootings of black people targeting white people and getting away with it simply because they're white then I'm sure Fox news would have been on top of it a long time ago.

And the absolute honest to God, mind boggling thing is that there are unarmed white people that get killed by police, no one is denying that. But the fact is that bringing up the injustices that black people face and overhauling the justice system would benefit EVERYONE not just black people. But the people are too caught up in crying about Al Sharpton and the fact that black actually "winning" that they would rather defend institutional racism to their own detriment. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Great point. Echoed here:

http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archi ... wn/387196/

Now, conversely, why don't black activists lead their arguments with the notion that the wrongs inflicted on them are just plain wrong, unconstitutional, immoral, just as much as they would be if...or, rather...just as much as they are when white people suffer the same wrongs but at smaller rates? Except that, also, to add insult to injury, a racist motive is suspected. Why lead with the latter? Why the outrage over, say, #alllivesmatter? Is that not in the same face-spiting ballpark? Do the bitterest racial angles and pockets of unrest serve the interests of the power elite? I'll go ahead and mark that as a "Yes" in advance. But remember, the left has its own power elite, too, with its own vision for cultivating dissent for its own reasons. It wouldn't just be corporate Republicans happy about racially dividing the lower classes to distraction and gaining an electoral boost from the latent racist demographic, too. The left also has an agenda. Not just the establishment suits in the Democratic Party. The captains of rabblerousing do, too.

Sharpton is a trained "community organizer", and while I hate to sound like Glenn ******* Beck, lol, there is kind of a manual on how to do that, how to be an effective radical leader, and part of it involves inflaming resentments. I think it'd smack of racism to assume Sharpton is an opportunist for his own material gain. It's far more generous to his reputation to assume he is an opportunist in the service of what he perceives as a righteous ideological agenda. And that that is why he rushes to co-opt every national racial incident, thereby poisoning all hope of a constructive discourse between the races right off the bat because most people of any persuasion do not like or trust him, period, not to mention the latent and not-so-latent racists who are especially drawn into the national discussion to attack him like catnip.

When a Republican administration embraced shady white political mercenaries with criminal backgrounds and a penchant for defrauding the media, I didn't like or trust them, either. To imagine that there are no black equivalents on the other side would be...well, patronizing, racist. There's got to be. Sharpton is just what one would guess that equivalent looks and sounds and acts like.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#678 » by Neutral 123 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:26 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: If there was anything remotely close to a white Al Sharpton he would be labeled a racist in 5 secs and that's about all the air time he would receive :lol: And first show me this rash shooting of whites on blacks, besides for the Ferguson and Trayvon where Sharpton and the media feasted like it was the end of the world. It's a giant conspiracy and scapegoat to use for gains. I mean Jeffrey Dahmer ate a black guy but trust me the rest of us don't want to eat you. You can't just escalate the events of one individual acting out in a hate crime and then say that's how the country and white people think.


How would a white Al Sharpton be labelled a racist if there was an actual systemic racism going on against white people. And do you honestly believe that these shootings don't happen because they're not covered by the media? There are ALOT more shootings of black men by police than people see on tv. Just this week alone there were 2 shootings of unarmed black men, one of them was NAKED when he was killed by police. I'm sure if I did time to research it there are way more occurrences than either of us care to know about. There have been multiple papers, studies, reports and scholarly articles that show proof of the institutionalized racism in the justice department. It's not just individual people. The DOJ report on Ferguson highlighted how corrupt and racist just one police force is, imagine what they'd find if they did that for all of them in the country. There's a bigger issue that people like you choose to willfully ignore and for some reason just continue to hate Al Sharpton.

And just today two cops were shot in Ferguson. Now if it comes out that it was white cops that got shot by a black man should Sharpton get back in his jet and fly down there? And most definitely if there was a white AlSharpton he would instantly be labeled a racist. He'll the NBA is now racist because they want to change the age limit :lol:

For what? Will these shooters claim self defense and be given a pat on the back and told to go home and get some rest, like what happened with zimmerman, or with just about any cop that kills black people?
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#679 » by Pointgod » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:26 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
MotownMadness wrote: If there was anything remotely close to a white Al Sharpton he would be labeled a racist in 5 secs and that's about all the air time he would receive :lol: And first show me this rash shooting of whites on blacks, besides for the Ferguson and Trayvon where Sharpton and the media feasted like it was the end of the world. It's a giant conspiracy and scapegoat to use for gains. I mean Jeffrey Dahmer ate a black guy but trust me the rest of us don't want to eat you. You can't just escalate the events of one individual acting out in a hate crime and then say that's how the country and white people think.


How would a white Al Sharpton be labelled a racist if there was an actual systemic racism going on against white people. And do you honestly believe that these shootings don't happen because they're not covered by the media? There are ALOT more shootings of black men by police than people see on tv. Just this week alone there were 2 shootings of unarmed black men, one of them was NAKED when he was killed by police. I'm sure if I did time to research it there are way more occurrences than either of us care to know about. There have been multiple papers, studies, reports and scholarly articles that show proof of the institutionalized racism in the justice department. It's not just individual people. The DOJ report on Ferguson highlighted how corrupt and racist just one police force is, imagine what they'd find if they did that for all of them in the country. There's a bigger issue that people like you choose to willfully ignore and for some reason just continue to hate Al Sharpton.

And just today two cops were shot in Ferguson. Now if it comes out that it was white cops that got shot by a black man should Sharpton get back in his jet and fly down there? And most definitely if there was a white AlSharpton he would instantly be labeled a racist. He'll the NBA is now racist because they want to change the age limit :lol:


Horrible and completely wrong analogy. Why? Assuming the shooter is black and the cops are white, literally no one will put up a defense fund for the shooter or release stuff from the cops past saying they deserved it(even if they were dirty cops this would be glanced over). Did the the shooter target the cop because they were white? How come you're not talking about the black cop that was killed in Atlanta? The only way your point would make sense is if Al Sharpton was somehow promoting the use of violence specifically against white cops. I have my problems with Al Sharpton but the anger directed towards him is that he tries to correct injustices and forces white America to acknowledge it has a problem.
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Re: NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sp 

Post#680 » by Neutral 123 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:28 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Ok you keep saying this so I feel like I need to clarify. Age discrimination is not illegal. See senior discounts, needing to be 21 to buy beer, how companies give different insurance rates based on how old you are, car rental rates, etc etc etc. Literally, in the constitution, it says you need to be 35 to run for president. Now, age discrimination that doesn't have a rational basis is illegal, but age discrimination is otherwise a very normal and legal part of our lives. And this age limit certainly has a rational basis. So stop saying that.

Yeah, the union sees an opportunity to get something in the next CBA by getting public sympathy. Which is perfectly fine. However, you can't forget that that's what it is, a PR move. Moreover, the way they are handling it is a clear attempt to obscure the point that they agreed to it in the first place. And it's effective. I bet 30% of people think that David Stern just decided that the age limit was going up to 19. And this is an NBA obsessed community. Imagine the general public.

Yes, the decided that other things were more worth fighting for in the last CBA. THAT IS WHAT A NEGOTIATION IS. You choose to get some things at the expense of others. The NBA isn't a government program or something. The point isn't to give everyone a fair deal. There is no "fair deal," there's a pie, and two parties are trying to get as much of the pie as possible. In a negotiation like this, you are guaranteed an equal seat at the negotiating table. What you do when you are at that seat is up to you.

Yep, and its already been ruled that there is no rational basis for age discrimination when it comes to the draft. At least when it comes to those 18 and older.

As for negotiations, my point still stands, a racist society makes it easier for the NBA to get away with this. Public sentiment matters, media sentiment matters, and now, there's the possibility that the union might actually have a more sympathetic ear. Yes, you can blame the union for conceding I suppose, but this was a tough point for the union to win on, in large part due to racism, a racial double standard.

That's all my point really was. I think the dofference of opinion between us is that I'm not seeing this as a level playing field. Obviously things are tilted towards ownership because they have the deeper pockets, but because of the racial aspect, they'll also get quite a bit more public and media support. Hopefully that's changing, and people can see that what is going on with the age requirement, and even more in the NCAA is wrong and needs to change.

Who ruled that? A court? I must have missed that.

Spencer Haywood ruling.
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