Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

Post #4081 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:56 pm

With Willie Caulie Stein your getting just as much risk and maybe even more risk as a lot of top prospects, but not nearly the upside. His game just has not really developed much. It seems like we are in the mist of a Center resurgence too so I don’t even know if he’s a future quality starter. I’d pass with a top 5 pick for sure. And I did love Noah coming out of college, but I think WCS is just not as good as he was when he was a junior.

Apples · Post #4082 » by **Apples** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:59 pm

DickGrayson wrote:I have a feeling Knicks will end up with Okafor and Towns will go to Minnesota. I've had many dreams of the ping pong balls working to where Minnesota will be the #1 overall pick and get Towns.

I've had a feeling for awhile now that T-Wolves win the lottery. But I think they take Okafor.

BLACKFEET 2010 · Post #4083 » by **BLACKFEET 2010** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:01 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:With Willie Caulie Stein your getting just as much risk and maybe even more risk as a lot of top prospects, but not nearly the upside. His game just has not really developed much. It seems like we are in the mist of a Center resurgence too so I don’t even know if he’s a future quality starter. I’d pass with a top 5 pick for sure. And I did love Noah coming out of college, but I think WCS is just not as good as he was when he was a junior.

I like WCS just not top five.
I think if anything, Towns has more "Noah" to his game with the defensive tenacity and playmaking ability on offense. He's like a weird hybrid of Noah meets Bynum meets Hordord. Or he could be, I should say.

Post #4084 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:14 pm

BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:With Willie Caulie Stein your getting just as much risk and maybe even more risk as a lot of top prospects, but not nearly the upside. His game just has not really developed much. It seems like we are in the mist of a Center resurgence too so I don’t even know if he’s a future quality starter. I’d pass with a top 5 pick for sure. And I did love Noah coming out of college, but I think WCS is just not as good as he was when he was a junior.

I like WCS just not top five.
I think if anything, Towns has more "Noah" to his game with the defensive tenacity and playmaking ability on offense. He's like a weird hybrid of Noah meets Bynum meets Hordord. Or he could be, I should say.

yeah, if we are out of the top 5-6 then i'd consider wcs, but that would be pretty much a disaster though.

that is true about Towns. I like him more and more everytime i see him. He has a little something out of all of those guys games. Plus he is a legit 7’ with at least a 7’3” wingspan. I still like Okafor too as a prospect, but Towns may surpass him. Towns has just about everything and if he puts it all together he will be a monster. Slowly it is. Still on the fence though.

Post #4085 » by **Capn'O** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:01 pm

From the little I've seen of WCS, I think he drops quite a bit. He just doesn't have the kind of fluidity that screams upside.

Phil won't consider him, IMO. How is he that much different from the guy (Chandler) he just traded off?

Post #4086 » by **NoLayupRule** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:33 pm

Someone will draft WCS between 5-10 and be very very happy they did so

He's not a franchise player at all not is he the guy a team needs to rebuild with but he's a spectacular complimentary guy.

You wouldn't really build a team with Noah first either but you want him once you've got your other two guys in place.

WCS is gonna be a solid defensive force imo. But unless we were tradjng down for some reason there is no chance he's a Knick.

We have no one to offer in trade.

I guess if a team in his range wanted to dump salary and send a lottery pick we'd do it but that's never happening

Besart19 · Post #4087 » by **Besart19** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:50 pm

Okafor/WCS/Kaminsky
Towns/Porzingis/Turner
Johnson/Hezonja/Oubre
Russell/Winslow/Hunter
Mudiay/Rozier/Grant

Jmonty580 · Post #4088 » by **Jmonty580** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:58 pm

How would you compare WCS to Nerlens Noel? I don't think he'll be as good personally. SOlid player, but I don't know if id want him in the top 5. Maybe 10...

Jheri Curl · Post #4089 » by **Jheri Curl** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:05 pm

WCS is one of the better defensive big men I've seen. Athletic enough to hold his own out on the perimeter on defense, good weak side shot blocker. Rebounding could use work. Don't expect traditional offense from him. If he ends up being Larry Sanders prior to his struggles you got a DPOY candidate for years to come.

djphan · Post #4090 » by **djphan** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:51 pm

i think his defense is a bit overstated... he'll be solid but i think he's going to come up a bit short of being something like tyson chandler who everyone compares him to...

Johnny Hoops · Post #4091 » by **Johnny Hoops** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:59 pm

BeagleBoss wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:We have to consider the other prospects at 4-6. We're not guaranteed at 1,2,3.

Who do you like at 4-6? Beyond Okafor, Towns, Russell and Mudiay.

We have Hezonja, Johnson, WCS, Porzingis, Winslow, Turner.

I think Phil will have it in this order --- Towns, Okafor, Mudiay, WCS, Porzingis --- then maybe Russell, Johnson, Hezonja.

Phil already got fined for making it public he likes Russell.

He said he's a nice player --- I guess that guarantees he's our pick. Seriously - I know everyone loves Russell --- I like the kid --- just worry about that body/quickness ----- that's all.

Johnny Hoops · Post #4092 » by **Johnny Hoops** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:10 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:
Your opinion - not mine. I still see Phil valuing size, defense, rebounding shot-blocking over what Russell and his sub-par athleticism & non-existent D would provide. WCS is obviously not a great offensive fit --- but his body is built for the NBA game. People always forget the type of player Phil was and that he values guys that do the little things.

I'm probably wrong on Russell -- if we take him I'll hope he's the second coming of Clyde or S-Curry but what I see is a sub-par athlete who can't finish around the rim and needs the high-screen to get people on his back.

my views on this are. You don't use a top 5 pick on someone that does the little thing. Phil still is trying to find stars.

Remember phil was a 2nd round pick back in the day. He isn't trying to find Phil Jackson with his top pick. He is trying to find his Walt Frazier's and Willis Reeds.

And Russell has his flaws. But he has a lot less flaws than WCS. You get on Russell for being a sub-par athlete who struggles to finish when he is 18 years old.

He has time to develop his body and become a better finisher as Harden and Curry both did. Russell has the ability to play both guard positions with his size, shooting ability, and his ability to playmake for others.

Why aren't you concerned about WCS non existant offensive game (outside of dunks). He has no post game, he has no jump shot, he is a terrible FT shooter. And I wouldn't even consider him an elite rebounder for his position. He is a great athlete that is going to be a really good help defender in the NBA.

Also Russell just turned 19. WCS is about to turn 22. Huge difference in there development as players.

Headline for latest F-Friscilla article on WCS.

NBA's next great defensive big man
Kentucky's 7-foot forward one of the draft's most versatile players

I am concerned about WCS offensive game but we could get offensive players in FA --- you are always going to need size/length/rebounding/interior defense.

Again -- I don't want WCS over KAT/Okafor ---- just saying I'd gamble on the kid who is an elite NBA athlete that is 7" tall and would instantly improve our overall team D --- before I'd go for Russell.

I'm in the minority - I get it - but after KAT/Okafor/Mudiay -- maybe Porzingis I'd probably go for WCS.

E-Balla · Post #4093 » by **E-Balla** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:10 pm

Jmonty580 wrote:How would you compare WCS to Nerlens Noel? I don't think he'll be as good personally. SOlid player, but I don't know if id want him in the top 5. Maybe 10...

Nerlens is in another league defensively but that's not his fault. Defensively WCS can be close to Anthony Davis good with some work but he'll most likely end up as a new age Camby.

Worst_to_First · Post #4094 » by **Worst_to_First** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:13 pm

BeagleBoss wrote:Okafor @ 7pm on ESPN and Russell @ 8:30pm on ESPN2 tonight!

If I am not mistaken NC State was Duke's first loss and the one that exposed Okafor's defensive weaknesses. Hope the big fella gets his measure of revenge this game.

E-Balla · Post #4095 » by **E-Balla** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:36 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:
BeagleBoss wrote:Okafor @ 7pm on ESPN and Russell @ 8:30pm on ESPN2 tonight!

If I am not mistaken NC State was Duke's first loss and the one that exposed Okafor's defensive weaknesses. Hope the big fella gets his measure of revenge this game.

That's been his weakness since high school.

That game in particular might've been one of his 5 best performances. 23/13 with 3 steals and 3 blocks and was 8/11 from the field and 7/11 from the line. NC State hit 10 of 16 threes. Justice, Tyus, and Matt Jones were 5/27.

TrueWarrior · Post #4096 » by **TrueWarrior** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:20 pm

Jah off to a good start. Automatic inside. Nice dunk contest.

Worst_to_First · Post #4097 » by **Worst_to_First** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:29 pm

Great start by Okafor. Looking like he's on a mission.

TrueWarrior · Post #4098 » by **TrueWarrior** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:43 pm

See that defensive sequence is what turns me off of Jah. Half assed boxing out leads to 2 offensive rebounds then doesnt even attempt to contest the shot when he was in position. Just stands and stares. And that was right after he came back into the game so he should have been nice and rested. I see him do this multiple times every time I watch him, close game or blowout.

Solid defense on that last play though. If only he made it a point to try more we wouldnt even be having a 1st pick discussion. Got to develop a defensive mentality and pride himself on stopping people. Right now he views defense like its optional.

DaGawd · Post #4099 » by **DaGawd** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:07 am

I now understand a lot of yalls hesitancy about Jah's defensive instincts. Offensively he's a joy to watch, can score pretty much any time he wants. But on the other side of the ball his lackadaisical mannerisms and instincts bring back vivid memories of Eddy Curry and Stat. He's young so you'd hope he can improve, but it's always nice to know a guy has that motor and know how on that end from day 1

NBA Fan 1234 · Post #4100 » by **NBA Fan 1234** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:29 am

TrueWarrior wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:We have to consider the other prospects at 4-6. We're not guaranteed at 1,2,3.

Who do you like at 4-6? Beyond Okafor, Towns, Russell and Mudiay.

We have Hezonja, Johnson, WCS, Porzingis, Winslow, Turner.

Hezonja is the best fit with the most upside to me who should be able to play right away. Athletic with skill and size, and hes got some spunk too, so I go with him. Porzingis is a ways off and is scared of the paint. Turner is also scared of the paint while he runs like an old man and has the strength of a 12 year old. WCS is Tyson 2.0, which is great for some teams but clearly not what we need. Winslow, Johnson, and Oubre all look like solid starting role playing SFs down the line but they havent shown enough to be picked top 5. Looney is meh and a tweener. Harrell not worth a top 10 pick. Bobby Portis and Christian Wood seem a little underrated to me, but theyd be reaches. Kaminsky..... nah. Lyles Im not a fan of for us. The PGs Grant, Wright, Jones, and Dunn all look pretty good but we could get one of em with a later pick.

I still really like Russell but I question if he can get to the basket, finish, and defend in the pros. Plus I want to build around a big man, so we're going to need a top 2 pick if we want Towns or Jah. Picking past 4th will likely set this team back years. This rook needs to become a bonerfide stud. Yes bonerfide.

I loved the first paragraph. Didn't disagree with a thing really (besides Porzingis being afraid of the paint -- he plays everywhere on the court, but needs to get stronger to be able to play down there consistently). I also think Johnson CAN be a top 5 pick, but he's got work to do on BOTH sides of the ball.

I LOVE Russell. He may not be an athletic guard like Westbrook who attacks the rim consistently, but he does attack the paint more than people give him credit for. In fact, he averages more FTA/G than Curry did his first two years in college in a better conference. I think he'll get there when he gets stronger. I think he's a surefire top 3 pick and could be higher depending on who picks -- I think he's a stud. As long as we get a high pick (top 3), I'm sure we will pick a bonerfide stud :lol:

After those guys, it's all projection.