Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

Post #4541 » by **moocow007** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:12 pm

The general consensus among a lot of scouts is that Towns is the guy you draft for 3 years from now. With Carmelo Anthony in tow, that's not a "better fit". Towns would be a better fit if the Knicks trade Anthony or didn't resign Anthony and instead went on rebuilding from scratch...or Jackson somehow manages to turn Carmelo Anthony into a vampire.

aq_ua · Post #4542 » by **aq_ua** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:41 pm

moocow007 wrote:The general consensus among a lot of scouts is that Towns is the guy you draft for 3 years from now. With Carmelo Anthony in tow, that's not a "better fit". Towns would be a better fit if the Knicks trade Anthony or didn't resign Anthony and instead went on rebuilding from scratch...or Jackson somehow manages to turn Carmelo Anthony into a vampire.

That could be said about any of the potential top draft picks. Does anyone really believe Okafor, Russell or Mudiay to be fully developed players when they enter the league? Basically you have to believe Melo will still be effective 5 years from now or either trade the pick / Melo.

Post #4543 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:43 pm

TrueWarrior wrote:Willie reminds me of a suped up Jeffries. If that doesnt deserve the top pick idk what does.

Yeah, I have actually been thinking the same comparison. Pretty much a defensive hustle player/specialist. There's some value in that, but not a lot of upside. We need more from a top pick.

Post #4544 » by **mpharris36** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:47 pm

moocow007 wrote:The general consensus among a lot of scouts is that Towns is the guy you draft for 3 years from now. With Carmelo Anthony in tow, that's not a "better fit". Towns would be a better fit if the Knicks trade Anthony or didn't resign Anthony and instead went on rebuilding from scratch...or Jackson somehow manages to turn Carmelo Anthony into a vampire.

I don't agree.

out of all the players top 4 players. Towns is by far the best defender, rebounder, and has an NBA jump shot.

I understand people saying Towns is the most raw in terms of his offensive potential. Because right now you can just dump the ball low to Okafor or probably run P&R's with Russell or Mudiay tomorrow and they can get you buckets or help someone else score.

Towns might never be the guy you just throw the ball to in the post and get the f*ck out of the way. But that means he wont impact the game more than the others.

I look at it like this. Right now towns has the least amount of weaknesses in his game which is why I am confused why people think he is 3 years away. Okafor, Russell, and Mudiay as dynamic as they are at certain aspects of there games. All 3 have more glaring weaknesses than Towns.

And I am not trying to say I don't like the other 3 prospects because I do. I am just trying to understand this idea that he is 3 years away. I think all 4 can contribute in there different ways from day 1 and we will be a better team with any of the 4.

Post #4545 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:54 pm

moocow007 wrote:The general consensus among a lot of scouts is that Towns is the guy you draft for 3 years from now. With Carmelo Anthony in tow, that's not a "better fit". Towns would be a better fit if the Knicks trade Anthony or didn't resign Anthony and instead went on rebuilding from scratch...or Jackson somehow manages to turn Carmelo Anthony into a vampire.

That kind of sounds like what Phil is saying and hinting at with the pick. It sounded like he was saying dont expect the pick to make big contributions in the short term, but it will still be an integral part of the future. Free Agency will be the priority to improve short term.

Sounds like he will pick who he thinks will be the best player long term even if that guy doesnt help right away and I think thats the way to go.

As far as Melo, I think we see how the team looks and shapes up next year. Even if Melo can help us make the playoffs next year it could be a good step considering we have no pick.

delvec19 · Post #4546 » by **delvec19** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:56 pm

I wish we could somehow get Towns and WCS

Nazrmohamed · Post #4547 » by **Nazrmohamed** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:57 pm

Retired_Doc wrote:
BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:I wouldn't like that at all.
The perception of who Okafor/Towns can become would suggest you snag either if available and move them for a package of assets if you see Stein as your target. Stein would likely be drafted no earlier than number five overall.

Well that's not a bad way to do it as long as we end up with WCS who I sense is an NBA "game-changer." Much better than Tyson at his best.

Why. Why would you say something like this. People get so ridiculous in their valuation of talents once they are mad at them. Tyson was a top 4 pick for a reason, because at the same age he looked way more dominant as compared to those around him. The guys has been a steady low double-double for much of his career in 30+ minutes. He has won DPOY and is a champion. After joining the Knick he, just like Melo saw Amare go down and Chandler from that point on took on the role as the knocks sole big, often amoungst guards and a 6'8 pf. Tyson alone allowed us to not be the worst defense ever assembled.

Every big man who hustles a bit isnt better than him. Knicks fans need to relax with their ever low value of our own players. Yet a guy scoring 11&8 on another team deserves the max. Actually we wanna max out about 4 different guys not averaging more than 12 points.

Willie Caulie Stein is an awesome player. Lets not forget he finished his last game with 4 rebounds....IN COLLEGE. He might end up good in the league, idk but the level of certainty we like to throw around while obviously slighting Tyson is crazy to me. Tyson doesn't have breakout seasons. Any team in the nba knows they can sign Chandler, walk over to their blackboard and write in a near double double every single night. He's got no potential and no risk either . Is this what you want? It'll cost you X.

Post #4548 » by **moocow007** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:58 pm

aq_ua wrote:
moocow007 wrote:The general consensus among a lot of scouts is that Towns is the guy you draft for 3 years from now. With Carmelo Anthony in tow, that's not a "better fit". Towns would be a better fit if the Knicks trade Anthony or didn't resign Anthony and instead went on rebuilding from scratch...or Jackson somehow manages to turn Carmelo Anthony into a vampire.

That could be said about any of the potential top draft picks. Does anyone really believe Okafor, Russell or Mudiay to be fully developed players when they enter the league? Basically you have to believe Melo will still be effective 5 years from now or either trade the pick / Melo.

The general consensus is that Okafor is ready now, so yeah. Look I'm not trying dash the hopes of the Towns grew. Just trying to be realistic here. Okafor is considered to be the clearly more ready prospect.

Post #4549 » by **moocow007** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:00 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:The general consensus among a lot of scouts is that Towns is the guy you draft for 3 years from now. With Carmelo Anthony in tow, that's not a "better fit". Towns would be a better fit if the Knicks trade Anthony or didn't resign Anthony and instead went on rebuilding from scratch...or Jackson somehow manages to turn Carmelo Anthony into a vampire.

I don't agree.

out of all the players top 4 players. Towns is by far the best defender, rebounder, and has an NBA jump shot.

I understand people saying Towns is the most raw in terms of his offensive potential. Because right now you can just dump the ball low to Okafor or probably run P&R's with Russell or Mudiay tomorrow and they can get you buckets or help someone else score.

Towns might never be the guy you just throw the ball to in the post and get the f*ck out of the way. But that means he wont impact the game more than the others.

I look at it like this. Right now towns has the least amount of weaknesses in his game which is why I am confused why people think he is 3 years away. Okafor, Russell, and Mudiay as dynamic as they are at certain aspects of there games. All 3 have more glaring weaknesses than Towns.

And I am not trying to say I don't like the other 3 prospects because I do. I am just trying to understand this idea that he is 3 years away. I think all 4 can contribute in there different ways from day 1 and we will be a better team with any of the 4.

I'm not the one you should be arguing with. I'm just reporting what I'm reading. The general take is that Towns is not going to hit full stride for 3 years and that he's a guy you take if your plan is to peak in that period. The Knicks, with a 30 year old Carmelo Anthony as it's centerpiece don't have 3 years no matter what Phil Jackson says to the media or fans want to convince themselves into believing.

Post #4550 » by **moocow007** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:02 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
moocow007 wrote:The general consensus among a lot of scouts is that Towns is the guy you draft for 3 years from now. With Carmelo Anthony in tow, that's not a "better fit". Towns would be a better fit if the Knicks trade Anthony or didn't resign Anthony and instead went on rebuilding from scratch...or Jackson somehow manages to turn Carmelo Anthony into a vampire.

That kind of sounds like what Phil is saying and hinting at with the pick. It sounded like he was saying dont expect the pick to make big contributions in the short term, but it will still be an integral part of the future. Free Agency will be the priority to improve short term.

Sounds like he will pick who he thinks will be the best player long term even if that guy doesnt help right away and I think thats the way to go.

As far as Melo, I think we see how the team looks and shapes up next year. Even if Melo can help us make the playoffs next year it could be a good step considering we have no pick.

The Knicks have limited resources. The cap space they have, thanks in some part to the "ill advised" trade for Jose Calderon and his contract, still limits what they can do in the short run. Same with the anticipated spike. That is IF the plan is still to win in Carmelo Anthony's prime. If not, then sure. At which point hopefully then Jackson tries to convince Anthony to allow him to trade him to another team.

Post #4551 » by **mpharris36** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:10 pm

moocow007 wrote:
I'm not the one you should be arguing with. I'm just reporting what I'm reading. The general take is that Towns is not going to hit full stride for 3 years and that he's a guy you take if your plan is to peak in that period. The Knicks, with a 30 year old Carmelo Anthony as it's centerpiece don't have 3 years no matter what Phil Jackson says to the media or fans want to convince themselves into believing.

I understand what scouts are saying and if you just look at it from a #'s prospective. Sure Okafor will get you better #'s in the first year because of his body type.

However a Melo/Okafor front court isn't going to be stopping anyone defensively. Sure can you surround them with 3 plus defenders like Beverly/Corey Joseph. Jimmy Butler/Afflalo. And then maybe Ami Johnson.

Sure but for as solid as Amir Johnson is defensively he still isn't considered a rim protector and neither is Okafor so in the first 3 years will we be more efficient offensively with Okafor. Sure but I am sure we will be talking about his defensive weaknesses a lot. If we do draft him I hope he becomes adequate on the defensive end.

I think for spacing reasons (Towns ability to shoot) opens up the floor more for Melo. Also Towns FT% and defense means the knicks shouldn't have an issue with playing him down the stretch early of close games. OK4 can't shoot FT's and his defense is sub par. Two things a coach usually wants in a guy that can finish close games.

And I understand why scouts have said. I just happen to disagree with there evaluations in terms of impactful fit in the first 3 years. While Towns might not be putting up 18-8 right away like Okafor can.

Towns could put up 12 and 10 with a few blocks and a steal and just be as productive helping out on P&R defense and interior rim protection even though OK4 raw #'s look better.

Tron Carter · Post #4552 » by **Tron Carter** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:11 pm

just get me a top 2 pick and draft one of the bigs. otherwise take muiday.

Post #4553 » by **mpharris36** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:13 pm

Tron Carter wrote:just get me a top 2 pick and draft one of the bigs. otherwise take muiday.

if the knicks are picking 3 and both the bigs are off the boards I am picking Russell every time over mudiay and twice on sundays.

Post #4554 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:22 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
moocow007 wrote:The general consensus among a lot of scouts is that Towns is the guy you draft for 3 years from now. With Carmelo Anthony in tow, that's not a "better fit". Towns would be a better fit if the Knicks trade Anthony or didn't resign Anthony and instead went on rebuilding from scratch...or Jackson somehow manages to turn Carmelo Anthony into a vampire.

That kind of sounds like what Phil is saying and hinting at with the pick. It sounded like he was saying dont expect the pick to make big contributions in the short term, but it will still be an integral part of the future. Free Agency will be the priority to improve short term.

Sounds like he will pick who he thinks will be the best player long term even if that guy doesnt help right away and I think thats the way to go.

As far as Melo, I think we see how the team looks and shapes up next year. Even if Melo can help us make the playoffs next year it could be a good step considering we have no pick.

The Knicks have limited resources. The cap space they have, thanks in some part to the "ill advised" trade for Jose Calderon and his contract, still limits what they can do in the short run. Same with the anticipated spike. That is IF the plan is still to win in Carmelo Anthony's prime. If not, then sure. At which point hopefully then Jackson tries to convince Anthony to allow him to trade him to another team.

Well, one mistake still doesnt change the fact that the Knicks have more cap space, picks and young players overall then when Phil took over. The Knicks will have $25mil or so in cap space, a top pick, Melo and a few young players. They have a lot of work to do, but that is the most they have had to work with a long time.

Theres a lot of different ways things can go. Just gonna have to wait and see.

Tron Carter · Post #4555 » by **Tron Carter** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:23 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Tron Carter wrote:just get me a top 2 pick and draft one of the bigs. otherwise take muiday.

if the knicks are picking 3 and both the bigs are off the boards I am picking Russell every time over mudiay and twice on sundays.

obviously any top 4 pick makes me happy and I think russell will be a stud but I like the physical profile and upside of muiday. i really wish he would've stayed at smu and gotten some more tutelage from brown because i don't think he's shown all he can do.

darkjedi4z · Post #4556 » by **darkjedi4z** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:23 pm

Is there a chance Towns develops a post game/offensive game similar to Okafor's, or close to that level?

They can draft Towns and put him as a defensive role player as he develops, sort of like now in UK. Plays good defense, won't have to be the 2nd option next to Melo since they have a ton of money for free agency, they can put together a team while keeping Towns for defense and development for the future. I'd like to see a Melo, Monroe, Towns front court, and if Dragic opts out of Miami..... one can dream.

darkjedi4z · Post #4557 » by **darkjedi4z** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:30 pm

They can draft Towns and put him as a defensive role player as he develops, sort of like now in UK. Plays good defense, won't have to be the 2nd option next to Melo since they have a ton of money for free agency, they can put together a team while keeping Towns for defense and development for the future. I'd like to see a Melo, Monroe, Towns front court, and if Dragic opts out of Miami..... one can dream.

Post #4558 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:32 pm

captvict wrote:He's 5th on my list after
Okafur
Towns
Russell
Turner
WC Stein

Scrappy dude....will do well in the NBA

if i may quote doc...

BeagleBoss · Post #4559 » by **BeagleBoss** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:36 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-tournament-s-top-10-nba-prospects-022413434.html

"The guys projected at the top of the draft, Karl-Anthony Towns, Jahlil Okafor and D'Angelo Russell, are really good," one NBA scout told Yahoo Sports. "There are also a lot of good point guards in this class. Overall, it's a decent class and no one will turn down their pick when NBA commissioner Adam Silver is on the podium."

Here's the top 10 NBA prospects to watch during the NCAA tournament.

1. Karl-Anthony Towns, Kentucky, PF/C, 7-0, 248, Fr. – Scout's comment: "He can score in the post, face and shoot and put it on the floor. There are not many players who can do all the things that he does."

2. Jahlil Okafor, Duke, C, 6-11, 272, Fr. – Scout's comment: "A solid center whose game will open up in the NBA. He has a strong low-post presence. His big body and big hands are also a plus."

3. D'Angelo Russell, Ohio State, PG/SG, 6-5, 180, Fr. – Scout's comment: "The best passer in college. He can defend both guard positions. His versatility could get him drafted over [guard] Emmanuel Mudiay."
4. Willie Cauley-Stein, Kentucky, C/PF, 7-0, 244, Jr. – Scout's comment: "He is a long rim-protecting big man. He is the leader of Kentucky. He reminds me a lot of Tyson Chandler. He is a pick-and-roll big man."

[Yahoo Sports Tourney Pick'em: Fill out your bracket and get a free Big Gulp Drink]

5. Stanley Johnson, Arizona, SF, 6-8, 243, Fr. – Scout's comment: "Has a great body and size for a small forward. Not a great shooter, but he can improve. He is a willing defender who makes the effort."

siar617 · Post #4560 » by **siar617** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:40 pm

moocow007 wrote:The general consensus among a lot of scouts is that Towns is the guy you draft for 3 years from now. With Carmelo Anthony in tow, that's not a "better fit". Towns would be a better fit if the Knicks trade Anthony or didn't resign Anthony and instead went on rebuilding from scratch...or Jackson somehow manages to turn Carmelo Anthony into a vampire.

Free agency helps Anthony get back to the playoffs while Towns goes through his rookie year and then Anthony, Monroe, Towns with Bynum and Harris go to Durant as the best front court in the league and show him the dynasty that awaits them.