Are we sure a new HC wouldn't fight with the FO?

[blumeany]

Honestly,

I'm to the point that if the Bulls fire Thibs, I'm not coming back until Paxson and Gar are fired as well. I just don't see this assembly of talent doing any better under the tutelage of a, most likely, inexperienced head coach.

Well, you will be missed.

...and I'll miss you the most kyrv!!!

[WIN]

Honestly,

I'm to the point that if the Bulls fire Thibs, I'm not coming back until Paxson and Gar are fired as well. I just don't see this assembly of talent doing any better under the tutelage of a, most likely, inexperienced head coach.

Well, you will be missed.

...and I'll miss you the most kyrv!!!

Look what's happening to us, this fighting is tearing our bulls family apart. It's the fans that will really get hurt if Thibs and the org divorces.

[RedBulls23]

One thing that I don't understand is that are there people here that really think that Noah with his knee issues shouldn't have a minutes restriction? Or that old ass Pau should play as many minutes as Thibs desires?

Maybe, just MAYBE if these minutes restrictions had been placed last year; Noah wouldn't look like a shell of himself today. Noah literally went from being an all-star/all-nba center to looking like a borderline starting center at times, in less than a year. Isn't that a problem?

[SpinninHouse]

This is what puzzles me.

Everyone agrees that:

1) Thibs is a top 3 coach and would get hired INSTANTLY in bidding war fashion.
2) Thibs and the Front Office have clashed.
3) No one really knows exactly what their clashes are that's considered irreconcilable.

Are you crazy? Not every one agrees that Thibs is a top-3 coach. Maybe, just maybe, he's a top-5 coach. And a debate could be made against that, as well.

Look, Thibs is a very good coach and has been constantly dealt a poor set of circumstances here over the past 5 years. Not many coaches could have succeeded under the circumstances. But the reality is he's been horrible the season and certainly not worthy of being called a top-3 coach. To say every one agrees on that -- I cannot disagree more.

I disagree with your claim that Thibs is "only" a Top 5 coach, but let's say you're right. Do Top 5 coaches grow on trees? Pop is with the Spurs, Phil is playing GM for the Knicks, Kerr is with the Warriors. Who else can be called indisputably better than Thibs? Sure, Thibs has minutes distribution and security blanket issues but if you look at his overall performance, Thibs is still one of the game's best. If you fire a good coach, you better have a great coach waiting in the wings. And there's no great coach out there who will match what Thibs has done. Even if we get a guy who's willing to play the kids more and create better rotations, odds are pretty good that the new dude will suck worse than Thibs overall. Fire a coach when you can make a clear upgrade. When there's no one out there who is better, a firing is needlessly foolish. After bungling the last offseason, the FO should not be given leeway to pile more stupidity onto the plate.

I'm sorry but there is no way Thibs is a better coach than Rick Carlisle. I don't even agree with Thibs being a better coach than Doc Rivers. Mike Budenholzer is a phenomenal coach. Would you really take Thibs over him? How about Stan Van Gundy and George Karl? That list doesn't include Pop or Kerr -- two guys nobody would take Thibs over.

Your phrase "indisputably" better applies here. Is Thibs "indisputably" better than the above list? No way.

[SpinninHouse]

Are you crazy? Not every one agrees that Thibs is a top-3 coach. Maybe, just maybe, he's a top-5 coach. And a debate could be made against that, as well.

You may not personally believe he's a top three coach, but it's pretty indisputable that the perception around the league is that he is one.

I could not disagree more with your statement that Thibs is indisputably perceived around the league to be a Top-3 coach. Honestly that is an out-landish statement.

Pop
Kerr
Carlisle
Doc Rivers

Van Gundy
George Karl
Budenholzer

Pop, Kerr, Carlisle, and Rivers are all indisputably better and I fail how to see how Thibs has indisputably separated himself from Karl/Van Gundy/Budenholzer.

Please watch the 2011 first round playoff series against Indy and tell me Vogel didn't out-coach Thibs that whole series. Whitman out-coached Thibs last year in the playoffs against the Wiz. Spo's trapping of Rose in the 2011 ECF's effectively ended our season with no attempt at adjustment from Thibs.

To me Thibs is one of 8 elite coaches in the NBA. Top-3 to me is crazy.

Your statement that league-wide he's considered Top-3 is wrong.

[Stratmaster]

Well, you will be missed.

...and I'll miss you the most kyrv!!!

Look what's happening to us, this fighting is tearing our bulls family apart. It's the fans that will really get hurt if Thibs and the org divorces.

Yeah!! What about the kids???

[musiqsoulchild]

Are you crazy? Not every one agrees that Thibs is a top-3 coach. Maybe, just maybe, he's a top-5 coach. And a debate could be made against that, as well.

You may not personally believe he's a top three coach, but it's pretty indisputable that the perception around the league is that he is one.

I could not disagree more with your statement that Thibs is indisputably perceived around the league to be a Top-3 coach. Honestly that is an out-landish statement.

Pop
Kerr
Carlisle
Doc Rivers

Van Gundy
George Karl
Budenholzer

Pop, Kerr, Carlisle, and Rivers are all indisputably better and I fail how to see how Thibs has indisputably separated himself from Karl/Van Gundy/Budenholzer.

Please watch the 2011 first round playoff series against Indy and tell me Vogel didn't out-coach Thibs that whole series. Whitman out-coached Thibs last year in the playoffs against the Wiz. Spo's trapping of Rose in the 2011 ECF's effectively ended our season with no attempt at adjustment from Thibs.

To me Thibs is one of 8 elite coaches in the NBA. Top-3 to me is crazy.

Your statement that league-wide he's considered Top-3 is wrong.

Blatt's damn good too....and thats been my opinion even before the Cleveland Cavaliers were formed. There's also Vogel, who I'll take in a jiffy over Thibs. And then there's Jason Kidd.

That's 11 coaches who can do as good a job as Thibs has done with the roster at hand.

This isnt to villify or demean Thibs. Its to make a point that the NBA top tier coaching being a barren landscape is an over-statement.

[AirP.]

Blatt's damn good too....and thats been my opinion even before the Cleveland Cavaliers were formed. There's also Vogel, who I'll take in a jiffy over Thibs. And then there's Jason Kidd.

That's 11 coaches who can do as good a job as Thibs has done with the roster at hand.

This isnt to villify or demean Thibs. Its to make a point that the NBA top tier coaching being a barren landscape is an over-statement.

I can't agree with you on this, although the roster is good, the situation hasn't been good. The franchise player deciding not to consistently play hard on the court, minute restrictions on key players, having to rely on rookies and a first year player, not having a real starting SF and up till this season half the Bulls fan base didn't want to give Jimmy Butler an extension at or above Taj's last contract.

Under Thibs Noah became the defensive player of the year, Rose became the MVP, Gibson and Butler(both defensive players) developed offensive games, Pau has turned back the clock under Thibs. Thib's system have gotten way more out of these players then I think anyone else could have gotten out of them. Yes he asks more from his players but they also end up producing more and getting wins. I'd argue that Chicago isn't as deep as they need to be with decent veterans. Talent/Potential is great, but knowing your players are going to execute your gameplan has a ton of influence on winning games too.

[musiqsoulchild]

Blatt's damn good too....and thats been my opinion even before the Cleveland Cavaliers were formed. There's also Vogel, who I'll take in a jiffy over Thibs. And then there's Jason Kidd.

That's 11 coaches who can do as good a job as Thibs has done with the roster at hand.

This isnt to villify or demean Thibs. Its to make a point that the NBA top tier coaching being a barren landscape is an over-statement.

I can't agree with you on this, although the roster is good, the situation hasn't been good. The franchise player deciding not to consistently play hard on the court, minute restrictions on key players, having to rely on rookies and a first year player, not having a real starting SF and up till this season half the Bulls fan base didn't want to give Jimmy Butler an extension at or above Taj's last contract.

Under Thibs Noah became the defensive player of the year, Rose became the MVP, Gibson and Butler(both defensive players) developed offensive games, Pau has turned back the clock under Thibs. Thib's system have gotten way more out of these players then I think anyone else could have gotten out of them. Yes he asks more from his players but they also end up producing more and getting wins. I'd argue that Chicago isn't as deep as they need to be with decent veterans. Talent/Potential is great, but knowing your players are going to execute your gameplan has a ton of influence on winning games too.

Heck, Taj at age 30 developed a genuine post game with Thib's coaching. There is no denying the greatness of Thibs.

Thats not my point at all.

My point is that, Thibs has to adapt to the changing landscape. He's got to understand that injury management and player management is a real thing. He cant keep questioning the science of it when the FO fully invested in that same science.

Its Thibs own doing to a large extent that the players who believe the most in holistic treatment (Rose and Noah) have tuned him out to some extent.

I dont think we are at a breaking point yet....but we are at a point where an cost-benefit analysis will be done in the off-season on whether to keep Thibs or replace him.

And then emerges by second point....there is quite a large talent pool out there. It will be pretty easy to replace Thibs. Maybe not at a Thibsian level...but even a coach that is of slightly lesser caliber can help the team perform better if he is less robotic and more engaging. And more supportive.

[TheJordanRule]

Are you crazy? Not every one agrees that Thibs is a top-3 coach. Maybe, just maybe, he's a top-5 coach. And a debate could be made against that, as well.

Look, Thibs is a very good coach and has been constantly dealt a poor set of circumstances here over the past 5 years. Not many coaches could have succeeded under the circumstances. But the reality is he's been horrible the season and certainly not worthy of being called a top-3 coach. To say every one agrees on that -- I cannot disagree more.

I disagree with your claim that Thibs is "only" a Top 5 coach, but let's say you're right. Do Top 5 coaches grow on trees? Pop is with the Spurs, Phil is playing GM for the Knicks, Kerr is with the Warriors. Who else can be called indisputably better than Thibs? Sure, Thibs has minutes distribution and security blanket issues but if you look at his overall performance, Thibs is still one of the game's best. If you fire a good coach, you better have a great coach waiting in the wings. And there's no great coach out there who will match what Thibs has done. Even if we get a guy who's willing to play the kids more and create better rotations, odds are pretty good that the new dude will suck worse than Thibs overall. Fire a coach when you can make a clear upgrade. When there's no one out there who is better, a firing is needlessly foolish. After bungling the last offseason, the FO should not be given leeway to pile more stupidity onto the plate.

I'm sorry but there is no way Thibs is a better coach than Rick Carlisle. I don't even agree with Thibs being a better coach than Doc Rivers. Mike Budenholzer is a phenomenal coach. Would you really take Thibs over him? How about Stan Van Gundy and George Karl? That list doesn't include Pop or Kerr -- two guys nobody would take Thibs over.

Your phrase "indisputably" better applies here. Is Thibs "indisputably" better than the above list? No way.

Oh please I already mentioned Kerr and Pop. The only indisputably better coach is Pop, although I hear what you're saying about Rivers and Carlisle, who have earned one chip each. While the argument for Rivers and Carlisle has some credibility, they earned that chip 5 or 7 years ago. What have they done since? Thibs has a 75+ winning percentage when the roster is stacked, which places him right along side or above both of those guys. But it's being really generous to include any of the other riffraff you mention. Kerr, has only one hot NBA season to date, and Budenholzer, has only one hot NBA season out of two. But let's say, for the sake of argument that you're right-- that Rick Carlisle, Doc Rivers, Mike Budenholzer, Stan Van Gundy, Steve Kerr and George freaking Karl are leaps and bounds better than Thibs. What do all these coaches have in common? They're employed by other NBA teams, which makes bringing them up irrelevant. They can't replace Thibs, so who cares. The only relevant question on the topic of firing Thibs is: who available right now that would be a clear upgrade over Thibs? Can you answer that question?

[AirP.]

My point is that, Thibs has to adapt to the changing landscape. He's got to understand that injury management and player management is a real thing. He cant keep questioning the science of it when the FO fully invested in that same science.

Its Thibs own doing to a large extent that the players who believe the most in holistic treatment (Rose and Noah) have tuned him out to some extent.

I dont think we are at a breaking point yet....but we are at a point where an cost-benefit analysis will be done in the off-season on whether to keep Thibs or replace him.

And then emerges by second point....there is quite a large talent pool out there. It will be pretty easy to replace Thibs. Maybe not at a Thibsian level...but even a coach that is of slightly lesser caliber can help the team perform better if he is less robotic and more engaging. And more supportive.

How does anyone know for sure that this type of minutes limit is more then a few years fad? It's like people are playing a computer simulation with real people now but hey, this will work! But hey, if it works then you can start calculating that into the player's contracts, if they're playing nearly a half quarter less that should end up showing up in their contracts.

[NZB2323]

Why do people have Doc Rivers rated so high as a coach?

[musiqsoulchild]

My point is that, Thibs has to adapt to the changing landscape. He's got to understand that injury management and player management is a real thing. He cant keep questioning the science of it when the FO fully invested in that same science.

Its Thibs own doing to a large extent that the players who believe the most in holistic treatment (Rose and Noah) have tuned him out to some extent.

I dont think we are at a breaking point yet....but we are at a point where an cost-benefit analysis will be done in the off-season on whether to keep Thibs or replace him.

And then emerges by second point....there is quite a large talent pool out there. It will be pretty easy to replace Thibs. Maybe not at a Thibsian level...but even a coach that is of slightly lesser caliber can help the team perform better if he is less robotic and more engaging. And more supportive.

How does anyone know for sure that this type of minutes limit is more then a few years fad? It's like people are playing a computer simulation with real people now but hey, this will work! But hey, if it works then you can start calculating that into the player's contracts, if they're playing nearly a half quarter less that should end up showing up in their contracts.

We can either call it a fad, or we can start looking into the impact of sports medicine / physical therapy on performance.

In this age and time, there is a greater awareness on personal fitness than ever before. Not for cosmetic reasons, but so people can have a higher quality of life.

Coincidentally an NFL player left guaranteed millions on the table and retired citing fear of concussions and brain damage.

Its not far away from the time when sports franchises will start focussing on people outcomes as well as player outcomes. Because, players are people too.

[AirP.]

We can either call it a fad, or we can start looking into the impact of sports medicine / physical therapy on performance.

In this age and time, there is a greater awareness on personal fitness than ever before. Not for cosmetic reasons, but so people can have a higher quality of life.

Coincidentally an NFL player left guaranteed millions on the table and retired citing fear of concussions and brain damage.

Its not far away from the time when sports franchises will start focussing on people outcomes as well as player outcomes. Because, players are people too.

Sure, it's also about how much a player is willing to sacrifice to get what they want.

For each person who can walk away from a sports, there are thousands if not millions that would love to take that player's vacant roster spot.

[TheJordanRule]

Why do people have Doc Rivers rated so high as a coach?

NZB2323, my 5 reasons are:
1 NBA Championship
1 ECF Championship
66.6 % winning percentage during the last 2 seasons with the Clippers (and a 57.7 % winning percentage during 9 seasons with Boston)
taught disciple Tom Thibodeau, who is now coaching us
11 playoff appearances

[NZB2323]

Why do people have Doc Rivers rated so high as a coach?

NZB2323, my 5 reasons are:
1 NBA Championship
1 ECF Championship
66.6 % winning percentage during the last 2 seasons with the Clippers (and a 57.7 % winning percentage during 9 seasons with Boston)
taught disciple Tom Thibodeau, who is now coaching us
11 playoff appearances

Tom Thibodeau was a great assistant coach before he worked for Doc Rivers.

Also, the big 3 in Boston only won 1 championship, and the Clippers, despite all their talent, have never made it to the WCF. The big 3 Boston Celtics had lots of offensive firepower, but were never an elite offense, and while their defense was elite, they were running Thibb's system.

He's not a bad coach, but I don't see what makes him elite.

[ADDinChicago]

He's not elite. He's accomplished more than Thibs has as a head coach. Hence why he'd command more in a deal. He's proven. Thibs is expectation.

[Michael Jackson]

Honestly,

I'm to the point that if the Bulls fire Thibs, I'm not coming back until Paxson and Gar are fired as well. I just don't see this assembly of talent doing any better under the tutelage of a, most likely, inexperienced head coach.

Well, you will be missed.

...and I'll miss you the most kyrv!!!

I agree. I left for a while about 3 years but Blue Meany will be missed. I am also pro Thibbs. I think most of you are crazy thinking about your unrealistic trades but Thibbs is legit. Pitino was hot poop came into the NBA and did nothing. Hobreig? Might be great but smells of Pete Carroll at New Englangd

[Michael Jackson]

Well, you will be missed.

...and I'll miss you the most kyrv!!!

I agree. I left for a while about 3 years but Blue Meany will be missed. I am also pro Thibbs. I think most of you are crazy thinking about your unrealistic trades but Thibbs is legit. Pitino was hot poop came into the NBA and did nothing. Hobreig? Might be great but smells of Pete Carroll at New Englangd

Why what a typo on England