Why is Towns rated so much higher than Turner?

[bwgood77]

I haven't watched either of them enough to know exactly why, but looking at their numbers, they are almost identical. Rebounding and blocks are pretty much the same. Turner has a little worse shooting percentage, but that is likely due to taking 8x as many threes as Towns.

Towns is a little bit taller but Turner has a little big bigger wingspan.

Here are their comparisons side by side.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compar ... les-turner

[ColdBlooded]

- Better athlete
- Better passer.
- Superior feel
- Actually bangs down low.
- Stronger upper body.

Turner drifts too much on the perimeter. He gets 23% of his shots at the rim, compared to Towns' 42%. Not to mention Towns finishes better at 75% compared to Turner's 71%.


Towns>>>Turner.

[djphan]

that difference in fg% is telling because turner just doesn't score points down low and if you're a center that doesn't dominate in the paint in college that is a red flag because the competition gets a lot tougher in the pros... he has a jumper and he's shown good range but floating out there this early in his career is not good... there's a difference between being capable of hitting a jumper and relying on it.. and he relies on it to generate his offense...

he's young and the boards and blocks look good so he's a good prospect but the offense translates only to a role player level with the possibility that he might be horrendous... the history of big men with that low a shooting percentage is mixed at best...

[bwgood77]

- Better athlete
- Better passer.
- Superior feel
- Actually bangs down low.
- Stronger upper body.

Turner drifts too much on the perimeter. He gets 23% of his shots at the rim, compared to Towns' 42%. Not to mention Towns finishes better at 75% compared to Turner's 71%.


Towns>>>Turner.

True, and Turner hasn't shot well from 3 lately after shooting 40% early, but if he was able to have range like that, it would be valuable in the nba since teams have become so focused on getting spacing as of late.

But I figured with the similar rebound and block rates that Turner banged inside well enough on the defensive side. I hadn't heard the argument about Towns being better offensively than someone though.

You think Turner drifts on the perimeter for the hell of it or because that is the game plan of Rick Barnes?

I noticed Towns was the better passer, but neither passed much anyway. 1.1 apg vs .6 apg

[ColdBlooded]

- Better athlete
- Better passer.
- Superior feel
- Actually bangs down low.
- Stronger upper body.

Turner drifts too much on the perimeter. He gets 23% of his shots at the rim, compared to Towns' 42%. Not to mention Towns finishes better at 75% compared to Turner's 71%.


Towns>>>Turner.

True, and Turner hasn't shot well from 3 lately after shooting 40% early, but if he was able to have range like that, it would be valuable in the nba since teams have become so focused on getting spacing as of late.

But I figured with the similar rebound and block rates that Turner banged inside well enough on the defensive side. I hadn't heard the argument about Towns being better offensively than someone though.

You think Turner drifts on the perimeter for the hell of it or because that is the game plan of Rick Barnes?

I noticed Towns was the better passer, but neither passed much anyway. 1.1 apg vs .6 apg

Combination. Barnes lineups produce poor spacing, so i kinda get it why he drifts. But he also just prefers to stay out there, and does;t seem to like banging.


Towns assist total doesn't show his elite passing. Its elite, and the best of all the bigmen in this draft.

[bwgood77]

Towns assist total doesn't show his elite passing. Its elite, and the best of all the bigmen in this draft.

How could you be so convinced he is that good of passer if he averages 1 assist a game? Because of high school?

[Marcus]

- Better athlete
- Better passer.
- Superior feel
- Actually bangs down low.
- Stronger upper body.

Turner drifts too much on the perimeter. He gets 23% of his shots at the rim, compared to Towns' 42%. Not to mention Towns finishes better at 75% compared to Turner's 71%.


Towns>>>Turner.

True, and Turner hasn't shot well from 3 lately after shooting 40% early, but if he was able to have range like that, it would be valuable in the nba since teams have become so focused on getting spacing as of late.

But I figured with the similar rebound and block rates that Turner banged inside well enough on the defensive side. I hadn't heard the argument about Towns being better offensively than someone though.

You think Turner drifts on the perimeter for the hell of it or because that is the game plan of Rick Barnes?

I noticed Towns was the better passer, but neither passed much anyway. 1.1 apg vs .6 apg

Combination. Barnes lineups produce poor spacing, so i kinda get it why he drifts. But he also just prefers to stay out there, and does;t seem to like banging.


Towns assist total doesn't show his elite passing. Its elite, and the best of all the bigmen in this draft.

more the latter than the former. Kiddo is downy soft on offense.

[Notanoob]

Towns assist total doesn't show his elite passing. Its elite, and the best of all the bigmen in this draft.

How could you be so convinced he is that good of passer if he averages 1 assist a game? Because of high school?

His low assist total is simply a result of him playing limited minutes on a loaded team. He's averaging 2.2 assist per 40 pace adjusted with a .87A/To. It isn't mindblowing, but he seems to know how to move the ball better than any of the other centers in this draft. I don't know if he's an elite passer, but he's certainly the best among the legit prospects at center in this draft, and above average for the NBA. I'd say he's a good passer for his position, and will be smart enough to find an open man when a double team comes his way in the post. He won't be a black hole.

If you haven't watched Turner, you won't get that he doesn't really look that great. He doesn't jump particularly high, he can't run the floor, and laterally he is on the slow side. He's not a complete stiff, but he really just doesn't show much athleticism. KAT certainly moves better and seems a bit more explosive. He hasn't shown anything much on offense besides his jump shot, while KAT has been converting post touches when he gets them. Add in the passing and he Towns looks like a much better offensive player.

My problem is that since he's playing just 21 minutes a game, I'm worried that his numbers like blocks and such are inflated because he can play with more energy and doesn't have to worry much about fouling, and can gamble more on defense with WCS to cover his back. I think people might be overrated his defensive prowess because of that.

[Marcus]

Towns assist total doesn't show his elite passing. Its elite, and the best of all the bigmen in this draft.

How could you be so convinced he is that good of passer if he averages 1 assist a game? Because of high school?

because just like everything else on the basketball court numbers don't paint the whole picture.

Its hard to explain without you having actually watched them play. I was asked to defend Jah's passing ability before the season started due to lackluster numbers and folks to just take a wait and see approach. Now that they've seen it for themselves its no longer a question mark despite the low numbers.

Same situation here.

Towns' high IQ shows in his passing. He has excellent vision and could be a high post weapon with it. Excellent with the back door pass from that spot. Looks off defenders with his eyes. Throws good outlet passes. Is improving at passing out of double teams and reading defenses in general. Doesn't hold the ball, keeps it moving so that the offense can continue to run smoothly. Things that don't always show up in the numbers.

Also you gotta take all his numbers and production with his minutes in mind and the system they're in. A few years into the league if he can develop as a hub his passing game should be more apparent.

[bwgood77]

Towns assist total doesn't show his elite passing. Its elite, and the best of all the bigmen in this draft.

How could you be so convinced he is that good of passer if he averages 1 assist a game? Because of high school?

His low assist total is simply a result of him playing limited minutes on a loaded team. He's averaging 2.2 assist per 40 pace adjusted with a .87A/To. It isn't mindblowing, but he seems to know how to move the ball better than any of the other centers in this draft. I don't know if he's an elite passer, but he's certainly the best among the legit prospects at center in this draft, and above average for the NBA. I'd say he's a good passer for his position, and will be smart enough to find an open man when a double team comes his way in the post. He won't be a black hole.

If you haven't watched Turner, you won't get that he doesn't really look that great. He doesn't jump particularly high, he can't run the floor, and laterally he is on the slow side. He's not a complete stiff, but he really just doesn't show much athleticism. KAT certainly moves better and seems a bit more explosive. He hasn't shown anything much on offense besides his jump shot, while KAT has been converting post touches when he gets them. Add in the passing and he Towns looks like a much better offensive player.

My problem is that since he's playing just 21 minutes a game, I'm worried that his numbers like blocks and such are inflated because he can play with more energy and doesn't have to worry much about fouling, and can gamble more on defense with WCS to cover his back. I think people might be overrated his defensive prowess because of that.

Oh, from what I've seen, neither look that great. I mean both are very raw. When you watch a lot of NBA, and as a AZ fan I watch guys with much more experience than Towns or Turner in college, neither impress me a ton as a college player. I'm mostly talking about upside. I think the Suns may end up with Turner with their pick, whereas Towns will go top 4. From mocks and everything I see that Towns is more valued and these are seasoned scouts putting these together, or writers that talk to them. I just found it interesting when I pulled up their numbers side by side.

[ColdBlooded]

Towns assist total doesn't show his elite passing. Its elite, and the best of all the bigmen in this draft.

How could you be so convinced he is that good of passer if he averages 1 assist a game? Because of high school?

because just like everything else on the basketball court numbers don't paint the whole picture.

Its hard to explain without you having actually watched them play. I was asked to defend Jah's passing ability before the season started due to lackluster numbers and folks to just take a wait and see approach. Now that they've seen it for themselves its no longer a question mark despite the low numbers.

Same situation here.

Towns' high IQ shows in his passing. He has excellent vision and could be a high post weapon with it. Excellent with the back door pass from that spot. Looks off defenders with his eyes. Throws good outlet passes. Is improving at passing out of double teams and reading defenses in general. Doesn't hold the ball, keeps it moving so that the offense can continue to run smoothly. Things that don't always show up in the numbers.

Also you gotta take all his numbers and production with his minutes in mind and the system they're in. A few years into the league if he can develop as a hub his passing game should be more apparent.

Couldn't have said it better.


OP, now I'm starting to question how much of Towns have you seen. 1st you ask the question in the OP and now you question Towns elite passing ability.


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkVAWkwTp_o&spfreload=10[/youtube]

[bwgood77]

Couldn't have said it better. OP, now I'm starting to question how much of Towns have you seen. 1st you ask the question in the OP and now you question Towns elite passing ability.

Like I said in my original post, I haven't seen much of him. But regardless of how much people say he is a great passer, one assist a game in 20 minutes per game isn't terribly impressive. As an AZ fan, I saw Gordon make some great passes last year, but I can't say that it translates into him being a great passing nba big.

Towns is obviously a better prospect, but it seems to be by slightly different things here and there...a little bit better assist and around the rim offensively guy.

In other threads, people talk about his offense being a weakness. I guess that leads me to believe people think Turner and Towns are on level ground defensively since all the arguments here for Towns are based on offense. That kind of surprises me, because I never hear people raving about Turner's D but they do about Towns, but of course the numbers are equal and Turner blocks more shots per minute.

That video is a nice pass, but it looked pretty obvious too. I don't take 1 assist per game and elite passing ability seriously. Sorry, maybe that's just me.

[Marcus]

My problem is that since he's playing just 21 minutes a game, I'm worried that his numbers like blocks and such are inflated because he can play with more energy and doesn't have to worry much about fouling, and can gamble more on defense with WCS to cover his back. I think people might be overrated his defensive prowess because of that.

this is something that definitely gets lost in the shuffle when talking up Towns. That sub-system Cal uses helps all the players in it that get decent minutes.

Its much easier to go hard knowing that you can and have to go all out for the time you'll be in there. There's no concern with saving energy or taking plays off. There's always someone there to replace you if you tire and if you've seen Kentucky at all this year you'll notice especially at this stage of the season Cal don't take no $h!t.

You slack you get pulled, blow an assignment you get pulled, don't chase a board or rotate you get pulled. He wants max effort the whole time you're on the floor. Makes it easier to give everything which I think helps Towns and has also aided WCS and the twins with their improvement this year.

[ColdBlooded]

Couldn't have said it better. OP, now I'm starting to question how much of Towns have you seen. 1st you ask the question in the OP and now you question Towns elite passing ability.

Like I said in my original post, I haven't seen much of him. But regardless of how much people say he is a great passer, one assist a game in 20 minutes per game isn't terribly impressive. As an AZ fan, I saw Gordon make some great passes last year, but I can't say that it translates into him being a great passing nba big.

Towns is obviously a better prospect, but it seems to be by slightly different things here and there...a little bit better assist and around the rim offensively guy.

In other threads, people talk about his offense being a weakness. I guess that leads me to believe people think Turner and Towns are on level ground defensively since all the arguments here for Towns are based on offense. That kind of surprises me, because I never hear people raving about Turner's D but they do about Towns, but of course the numbers are equal and Turner blocks more shots per minute.

That video is a nice pass, but it looked pretty obvious too. I don't take 1 assist per game and elite passing ability seriously. Sorry, maybe that's just me.

Bro, you just admitted you haven't watched much of him. Once you study the film, you'll see the tons of creative passes he dishes out that lead to fouls or his teammates simply don't convert. The starting lineup he's a part of doesn't produce the best spacing. 2.2 assist per 40 is good, but still, the assist totals doesn't do it justice. I've seen enough to categorize it as elite.



[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sCEUK-YVfI&spfreload=10[/youtube]

[Marcus]

Couldn't have said it better. OP, now I'm starting to question how much of Towns have you seen. 1st you ask the question in the OP and now you question Towns elite passing ability.

Like I said in my original post, I haven't seen much of him. But regardless of how much people say he is a great passer, one assist a game in 20 minutes per game isn't terribly impressive. As an AZ fan, I saw Gordon make some great passes last year, but I can't say that it translates into him being a great passing nba big.

Towns is obviously a better prospect, but it seems to be by slightly different things here and there...a little bit better assist and around the rim offensively guy.

In other threads, people talk about his offense being a weakness. I guess that leads me to believe people think Turner and Towns are on level ground defensively since all the arguments here for Towns are based on offense. That kind of surprises me, because I never hear people raving about Turner's D but they do about Towns, but of course the numbers are equal and Turner blocks more shots per minute.

if you're reading about offensive weakness in Karl its more than likely in a comparative form with Jah Okafor. Karl needs to further his post game and get space and time to show his faceup but they are facets that are real and tangible. Compared to Jah though you won't find any bigs on the college level and not many in the pro game right now with Okafor's post game.

So in that respect if you see it said somewhere that Karl is offensively inept in some way its more than likely because the statement is being made in reference to what he could be compared to what he currently is combined with what he currently is compared to what Jah currently is.

Defensively Karl is better due to being able to move better and he's a lot stronger than Myles is.

Myles knows where to be and gives the effort to be there but he can be moved off his spot. He has good timing with his blocks, doesn't bite as much and competes on that end despite his lack of strength and how timid he is when it comes to banging on offense. He could be a great help side shot blocker. Towns show a better pension as a 1 on 1 post defender at the moment as well as weak side shot blocking. Karl is rather foul prone though which I think is due to what I mentioned in an earlier post with the sub-system along with still learning what he can and can't get away with defensively.

[azwfan]

Couldn't have said it better. OP, now I'm starting to question how much of Towns have you seen. 1st you ask the question in the OP and now you question Towns elite passing ability.

Like I said in my original post, I haven't seen much of him. But regardless of how much people say he is a great passer, one assist a game in 20 minutes per game isn't terribly impressive. As an AZ fan, I saw Gordon make some great passes last year, but I can't say that it translates into him being a great passing nba big.

Towns is obviously a better prospect, but it seems to be by slightly different things here and there...a little bit better assist and around the rim offensively guy.

In other threads, people talk about his offense being a weakness. I guess that leads me to believe people think Turner and Towns are on level ground defensively since all the arguments here for Towns are based on offense. That kind of surprises me, because I never hear people raving about Turner's D but they do about Towns, but of course the numbers are equal and Turner blocks more shots per minute.

That video is a nice pass, but it looked pretty obvious too. I don't take 1 assist per game and elite passing ability seriously. Sorry, maybe that's just me.

Bro, you just admitted you haven't watched much of him. Once you study the film, you'll see the tons of creative passes he dishes out that lead to fouls or his teammates simply don't convert. The starting lineup he's a part of doesn't produce the best spacing. 2.2 assist per 40 is good, but still, the assist totals doesn't do it justice. I've seen enough to categorize it as elite.



[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sCEUK-YVfI&spfreload=10[/youtube]

WOW. That dude belongs on the Warriors. Total unnecessary behind the back lead pass.

[Cammo101]

Turner is an obvious talent, but he really really needs another year at Texas. He struggled most of this year and if he goes pro, I don't think he reaches his full potential.

[Ruzious]

I like Turner better than most do, but Towns is one of those guys who just has a special feel for the game. I think you can build a franchise around him. Plus he's stronger and tougher than Turner - even if he does tend to fade away more than I'd like on inside jumpers. And he's a guy you really want on your side in crunch time. Turner can be a very good part of a supporting cast. At this point, I don't see him as being the main guy for a franchise. That could change - since he's only 18.

[Cammo101]

I like Turner better than most do, but Towns is one of those guys who just has a special feel for the game. I think you can build a franchise around him. Plus he's stronger and tougher than Turner - even if he does tend to fade away more than I'd like on inside jumpers. And he's a guy you really want on your side in crunch time. Turner can be a very good part of a supporting cast. At this point, I don't see him as being the main guy for a franchise. That could change - since he's only 18.

I had him as the #1 prospect in this class for a while. I am very high on his talent, but he has just been so inconsistent. I rarely say a kid who could be a lotto pick should return to school, but in this case, he could gain a lot by returning to school for another year. He'd be more of a go to guy next year and would then be entering what is likely a weaker big man draft.

[bwgood77]

I like Turner better than most do, but Towns is one of those guys who just has a special feel for the game. I think you can build a franchise around him. Plus he's stronger and tougher than Turner - even if he does tend to fade away more than I'd like on inside jumpers. And he's a guy you really want on your side in crunch time. Turner can be a very good part of a supporting cast. At this point, I don't see him as being the main guy for a franchise. That could change - since he's only 18.

I had him as the #1 prospect in this class for a while. I am very high on his talent, but he has just been so inconsistent. I rarely say a kid who could be a lotto pick should return to school, but in this case, he could gain a lot by returning to school for another year. He'd be more of a go to guy next year and would then be entering what is likely a weaker big man draft.

Maybe, but many think that practicing against pros is better for development than playing in college. While he is really raw offensively, he did have a better block rate than Towns....2.7 per 22 minutes. Today he got in foul trouble and only had 16 minutes but still pulled down 10 rebounds.

For the record, I don't think he is on the same level as Towns, but it is interesting the numbers are pretty similar, and he is really young and has the same size with a longer wingspan. I'm just wondering if he would be a good pick for the Suns to back up Len, especially with Len being somewhat prone to injury.