Castro is a SP or RP... long term

[North_of_Border]

Miguel Castro

he is dominant out of the pen. But if u look at last season and the winter league he is a dominant SP at those levels too.

However, JAYS wont possibly have enough room for all the young SP that are coming on at the same time. Should they keep him a bullpen ace or give him a shot at a mid rotation spot in the future?

relievers are usually failed starters..... throwing a guy straight to there with Castro's stuff seems like a waste.... but there might not be much room in the rotation even next season... or later

never the less, we cant argue that in 2015 he should be a reliever.... future is the question.

[akakalakin]

let him compete with Cecil for closer 50-60 innings, bet he wins the spot

[Schad]

We have a lot of great young pitchers now, but the odds of all of them making it (and more importantly, remaining healthy) are next to zero. Thus, he should remain a starter until something prevents him from being a starter...none of the typical concerns that push guys into the 'pen are there with Castro.

[dagger]

We have a lot of great young pitchers now, but the odds of all of them making it (and more importantly, remaining healthy) are next to zero. Thus, he should remain a starter until something prevents him from being a starter...none of the typical concerns that push guys into the 'pen are there with Castro.

I agree, with an innings limit, he should start. His stuff is varied enough, and Martin is going to get the most out of him.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

let him compete with Cecil for closer 50-60 innings, bet he wins the spot

As pointed out in the Spring Training thread, I think having him pitch 80-90 innings to stretch him out would be much more beneficial to the Jays, both short and long term.

[There There]

We have a lot of great young pitchers now, but the odds of all of them making it (and more importantly, remaining healthy) are next to zero. Thus, he should remain a starter until something prevents him from being a starter...none of the typical concerns that push guys into the 'pen are there with Castro.

I agree, with an innings limit, he should start. His stuff is varied enough, and Martin is going to get the most out of him.

I'm pretty sure Schad meant that he should be starting in Dunedin, or possibly New Hampshire if you want to get really aggressive with him.

Let him develop, control his innings and call him up to help out the pen in August/September if the team is in a race.

[bluerap23]

Looks like he is winning a spot in the bp for this year.
Lots of success stories have started in the bp (wells, key) so it really isn't an issue converting him to a starter in the future.

Our future depth at SP is looking incredible.
In 2 years we will have 7 quality mlb-ready SP under control for multiple seasons.

Stroman
Sanchez
Norris
Hutch
Castro
Osuna
Hoffman

Even if we have 2 injuries/under-performers we are in good shape.

[Schad]

Looks like he is winning a spot in the bp for this year.
Lots of success stories have started in the bp (wells, key) so it really isn't an issue converting him to a starter in the future.

Our future depth at SP is looking incredible.
In 2 years we will have 7 quality mlb-ready SP under control for multiple seasons.

Stroman
Sanchez
Norris
Hutch
Castro
Osuna
Hoffman

Even if we have 2 injuries/under-performers we are in good shape.

Wells came up as a 24 year old with about 500 innings of professional ball to his name. Key had a shade under 200, but he was also a college draftee, and his year as a reliever came at 23.

There really aren't many pitchers who've taken the route we're proposing for Castro here...an insanely young IFA/high school kiddie rushed to the majors as a reliever (for more than just a late-season cup of coffee), then converted back to starting successfully. Actually, I'm struggling to name any in recent years; Jose Rijo was the only one I could think of off the top of my head, but a quick look at Baseball Reference suggests that took five years (and two trades) before he really clicked as a starter.

[Michael Bradley]

I don't think Castro's conversion to a starter in 2016 will go all that well to be honest (if he spends the entire 2015 season in the pen). That's such a hard transition to make due to the increased workload, and since Castro's arm lacks IP to begin with, it's a recipe for disaster.

Unfortunately, the best case scenario for Castro as a long-term asset (if he makes the team out of ST) is if he struggles badly in April and is sent down to be stretched out again. They would burn an option but at least he'd get a decent amount of IP in the minors and possibly be ready to be a big league rotation option in 2016. If he's a reliever the entire season, and has success, then like I said before, it wouldn't surprise me if he stays in that role indefinitely.

I really worry about this team if the intention is to go with all young pitchers in 2016-beyond. They need reliable innings eaters, which they will lose with Buehrle leaving after 2015, and then Dickey either after 2015 (if they decline his option) or 2016. I can see Hutch developing into an innings eater, assuming he stays healthy, but I'm not confident that Sanchez and Norris will, at least not right away, and Stroman has to prove he's back with the ACL issue. Outside of that, young pitching is so volatile that it's pointless to guess what the rotation will look like a year or two from now.

[Kurtz]

Looks like he is winning a spot in the bp for this year.
Lots of success stories have started in the bp (wells, key) so it really isn't an issue converting him to a starter in the future.

Our future depth at SP is looking incredible.
In 2 years we will have 7 quality mlb-ready SP under control for multiple seasons.

Stroman
Sanchez
Norris
Hutch
Castro
Osuna
Hoffman

Even if we have 2 injuries/under-performers we are in good shape.

Wells came up as a 24 year old with about 500 innings of professional ball to his name. Key had a shade under 200, but he was also a college draftee, and his year as a reliever came at 23.

There really aren't many pitchers who've taken the route we're proposing for Castro here...an insanely young IFA/high school kiddie rushed to the majors as a reliever (for more than just a late-season cup of coffee), then converted back to starting successfully. Actually, I'm struggling to name any in recent years; Jose Rijo was the only one I could think of off the top of my head, but a quick look at Baseball Reference suggests that took five years (and two trades) before he really clicked as a starter.

Morrow, Sale immediately come to mind.

[Schad]

Morrow, Sale immediately come to mind.

Sale for youth, sure, but he was an absurdly well-polished three-year college pitcher, and the only thing keeping him from starting in his first full season (and going at the very top of the draft, for that matter) was the belief that his delivery necessitated deploying him in relief. I don't think that the national college pitcher of the year is really a comp for a kid with as little high-level experience as Castro; he could and probably should have been starting from day one.

As for Morrow, I'm not sure that he's a positive on that particular ledger. Might've been if not for injuries (and his diabetes, which was a significant factor early in his career), but after his debut season Seattle shuttled him back and forth to Tacoma in his second season, caught between a guy who was an effective reliever and an ineffective starter. And while he has had flashes, their handling of him doesn't strike me as something we should be aspiring to...three years into his big league career they had no idea what was there, resulting in them giving up on a guy they drafted 5th overall in a decent draft for pitching (7th pick, Kershaw; 10th pick, Lincecum; 11th pick, Scherzer) for relief help.

[Kurtz]

Fair points, I was just pointing out that sticking a young pitcher in BP for a year (or 3, in Morrow's case) doesn't necessarily preclude him from transitioning to a starter 1-2 years later.

[bluerap23]

I think you also have to consider that we likely won't have room for him in the rotation for the next couple years. If a guy looks ready to contribute now, do you keep him in the minors to develop him for a roll that you may not be able to offer him in the foreseeable future?

[satyr9]

Looks like he is winning a spot in the bp for this year.
Lots of success stories have started in the bp (wells, key) so it really isn't an issue converting him to a starter in the future.

Our future depth at SP is looking incredible.
In 2 years we will have 7 quality mlb-ready SP under control for multiple seasons.

Stroman
Sanchez
Norris
Hutch
Castro
Osuna
Hoffman

Even if we have 2 injuries/under-performers we are in good shape.

Wells came up as a 24 year old with about 500 innings of professional ball to his name. Key had a shade under 200, but he was also a college draftee, and his year as a reliever came at 23.

There really aren't many pitchers who've taken the route we're proposing for Castro here...an insanely young IFA/high school kiddie rushed to the majors as a reliever (for more than just a late-season cup of coffee), then converted back to starting successfully. Actually, I'm struggling to name any in recent years; Jose Rijo was the only one I could think of off the top of my head, but a quick look at Baseball Reference suggests that took five years (and two trades) before he really clicked as a starter.

Morrow, Sale immediately come to mind.

Both were college starters, played cape cod, had years of extra experience at a higher level. And neither one is exactly having trouble-free careers as far as their arms and durability go.

All that being said, while I am vehemently against bringing him under any circumstances, prospect development is a ridiculous crap shoot. Taking him straight from camp
isn't a death knell. Its certainly unconventional and appears to be motivated by factors other than what's in the best interests of Castro the prospect, but its not quite as dire a calamity as all that.

[bluerap23]

Was trying to think of other guys that have come to the major leagues with little to no minor league experience. Obvious example is Doc Gooden who struck out 260 batter when he was 19.

Then did a google search and found this guy John Montgomery "Monte" Ward. Dude pitched almost 600 innings per year and on off days played in the field! Pitched an 18 inning shutout!

From wikipedia
Ward's first season with the Grays was a successful one, going 22–13 with a 1.51 ERA. He played that season exclusively as a pitcher, but during the following two seasons he played increasingly in the outfield and at third base.[2] Ward had his two finest seasons as a pitcher, going 47–19 with 239 strikeouts and a 2.15 ERA in 1879 and 39–24 with 230 strikeouts and a 1.74 ERA in 1880. He pitched nearly 600 innings each year (587.0 in 1879 and 595.0 in 1880).[2] As a 19 year old pitcher, he won 47 games and led the 1879 Providence Grays to a first place finish.[6]

In 1880, he began to play other positions. On June 17, 1880, Ward pitched the second perfect game in baseball history, defeating future Hall of Famer Pud Galvin and the Buffalo Bisons, 5–0.[3] Lee Richmond had thrown baseball's first perfect game just five days before, on June 12. The next perfect game by a National League pitcher would not happen for 84 years, when Jim Bunning pitched a perfect game in 1964.[7] Ward also expanded his leadership role to include managing when he became a player-manager for the team's final 32 games, winning 18 of them, as the Grays finished in second place.[1][4]

The seasons of 1881 and 1882 were the first in which he played more games in the outfield than he pitched. This was due to a nagging arm injury he originally incurred sliding into a base.[3] He still pitched well when he did pitch, winning 37 games over those two seasons and having ERAs of 2.13 and 2.59 respectively,[2] and on August 17, 1882, he pitched the longest complete game shutout in history, blanking the Detroit Wolverines 1–0 in 18 innings.[3] By this time, however, the Grays felt his best days were behind him and sold their former ace hurler to the New York Giants.

[CrookedJ]

Andrew Stoeten weighs in on the matter. He seems OK with it....

http://andrewstoeten.com/2015/03/24/it- ... then-what/

What that means, though, is that the Jays’ eagerness to have Castro in the bullpen this year miiiiiiight indicate he’s not going jump straight to the rotation next year and start dominating guys over six and seven innings a start like we’ve seen for, y’know, nine innings in Spring Training — and might actually indicate they agree with those who think his future is more likely in relief. As in: as a ridiculously good, lock-down, late-inning reliever.

That’ll play! And I think we all entirely understand why they’re doing it. What they might not be doing, though, is giving him every possible opportunity to develop as a starter right now. Part of that is self preservation, of course. Part of it is feeling OK about the fact that they — or whoever is in charge at the time — can figure it out down the road. And part of it too, I’d suspect, is that they maybe don’t quite see him as the little miracle that some fans have started to allow themselves to.

[Schad]

"The Jays maybe kinda think his future is in relief" is probably the worst reason to be okay with it, because he's freaking 20, hasn't pitched any significant innings total in full season, and he's freaking 20. Absent massive failure or a serious delivery flaw, that's not the sort of determination you should ever be making so early in a pitcher's career. No talent evaluator should ever be so confident in their abilities as to make that call that early on so little data, because no talent evaluator is Nostradamus.

[Michael Bradley]

I don't think anyone trying to justify this move actually agrees with it. They are just trying to spin some type of positive out of it. In the case of the media, they are just trying to make it fit AA's narrative. If they view Castro as a reliever long-term, that's fine, but you don't concede that at age 20 when his IP high is 80 IP in low-A. I can't see a single (good) GM doing what the Jays are doing with Castro. If he had a bit more pro experience, then maybe, but even that would be pushing it.

It's better to just accept that it's a terrible move and hope for the best. Trying to rationalize it doesn't make it look better. Let's just hope he turns into Betances right away and the Jays make the playoffs because of it. I don't know. That's all we can really do at this point.

[hyper316]

I can see why AA is trying to save his job at the expense of properly developing players. He's a desperate man with no budget to work with

[bluerap23]

I can see why AA is trying to save his job at the expense of properly developing players. He's a desperate man with no budget to work with

I don't know. If this blows up in his face it may hurt AA's chances to resign.

Personally I think he has earned an extension. We are starting to see the results of his solid drafting and he has done an excellent job this offseason with talent acquisition at little cost.

If they let Buerhle, Estrada and Navarro go next year their payroll is going to have a lot of room without that many holes to fill.