Did RW found the triple-double recipe and exposed it to the world?

[bondom34]

Who cares about triple-doubles?

I care about winning. And we are doing it.

Dude, feel free to drop by the team forum anytime too! You're highly thought of.

[Sebastian]

OKC's bigs leak out and let Russ grab the board every chance they get. It's why his rebound numbers have been so inflated lately. That's the strategy they're employing.

Rebounds from the PG position aren't particularly valuable, anyway. Triple-doubles are a neat little accomplishment, but they aren't nearly as impressive or affecting as most people seem to think.

I don't think you're noticing the rebound numbers OKC bigs put up, that isn't the strategy.

When Russ is in the vicinity, they charge up court and let him grab the board. Happens several times a game, every game.

[bondom34]

OKC's bigs leak out and let Russ grab the board every chance they get. It's why his rebound numbers have been so inflated lately. That's the strategy they're employing.

Rebounds from the PG position aren't particularly valuable, anyway. Triple-doubles are a neat little accomplishment, but they aren't nearly as impressive or affecting as most people seem to think.

I don't think you're noticing the rebound numbers OKC bigs put up, that isn't the strategy.

When Russ is in the vicinity, they charge up court and let him grab the board. Happens several times a game, every game.

They let him? Dude, they're averaging 25 frontcourt rebounds per game among the three main guys. Russ is seventh in rebounds per 36 on the team. Bigs are getting theirs too.

[Texas Chuck]

Do not agree at all with this idea that defensive rebounds from a PG has no value. Just do not agree.

Of course I think people get way too caught up in the whole idea of positions anyway.

[Dr Pepper]

The recipe is to have a relentless motor. RW plays each game like it was the playoffs, and it's exciting and winning.

[Krodis]

Do not agree at all with this idea that defensive rebounds from a PG has no value. Just do not agree.

Of course I think people get way too caught up in the whole idea of positions anyway.

I mean, I think in a vacuum it's hard to say that they have no value. But at the same time I think sometimes rebounds as a stat can be misleading. Rebounding, like the rest of basketball, is a team effort, and while occasionally people can make great individual efforts and just snatch rebounds out of nowhere, often the key part of the rebound is the box out: and the person who boxes out is not necessarily the person getting the rebound.

So people who really crash the defensive boards are often not the key person to the rebound itself. And guards who crash the boards are particularly prone to this.

[Sebastian]

Do not agree at all with this idea that defensive rebounds from a PG has no value. Just do not agree.

Of course I think people get way too caught up in the whole idea of positions anyway.

PG rebounds are by far the least contested (more than 70% are uncontested). A rebound from a PG is not equal to a rebound from a big. I won't say they have no value, but they have a lot less value.

[bondom34]

Do not agree at all with this idea that defensive rebounds from a PG has no value. Just do not agree.

Of course I think people get way too caught up in the whole idea of positions anyway.

PG rebounds are by far the least contested (more than 70% are uncontested). A rebound from a PG is not equal to a rebound from a big. I won't say they have no value, but they have a lot less value.

In what way? OKC is at the top of the NBA in transition offense, and it let's them push the ball way faster. People are discrediting rebounds with tons of excuses, but they don't make basketball sense. He's doing it on a team that leads the league in rebounding with bigs who still get theirs in excess, and is able to push the pace. His rebounding is one of the single best attributes he's got.

[Sebastian]

Do not agree at all with this idea that defensive rebounds from a PG has no value. Just do not agree.

Of course I think people get way too caught up in the whole idea of positions anyway.

PG rebounds are by far the least contested (more than 70% are uncontested). A rebound from a PG is not equal to a rebound from a big. I won't say they have no value, but they have a lot less value.

In what way? OKC is at the top of the NBA in transition offense, and it let's them push the ball way faster. People are discrediting rebounds with tons of excuses, but they don't make basketball sense. He's doing it on a team that leads the league in rebounding with bigs who still get theirs in excess, and is able to push the pace. His rebounding is one of the single best attributes he's got.

The Thunder run a lot so they score a lot of transition points (4th in the league) but they're middle of the pack in terms of PPP (#11), score frequency (#13) and eFG% (#19) in transition. The evidence doesn't really point to Russell crashing the boards and starting the break being particularly productive in this area.

I agree that he's a good rebounder and it's always a plus for a player to better than average at anything, but we'll have to agree to disagree on the value of his "extra" rebounds (let's say ~3 a game) that are inflating his rebound totals. Example: late in the recent game against Atlanta, he sailed in to grab a rebound on a missed free throw before one of the two OKC bigs under the basket could get it. No one on Atlanta was in the vicinity of the ball. I'd argue that this is a rebound with virtually no value. Whether he starts the break from under the basket or gets an outlet pass from McGary 20 feet up the court is not going to change the likelihood that OKC scores on the ensuing possession.

[bondom34]

PG rebounds are by far the least contested (more than 70% are uncontested). A rebound from a PG is not equal to a rebound from a big. I won't say they have no value, but they have a lot less value.

In what way? OKC is at the top of the NBA in transition offense, and it let's them push the ball way faster. People are discrediting rebounds with tons of excuses, but they don't make basketball sense. He's doing it on a team that leads the league in rebounding with bigs who still get theirs in excess, and is able to push the pace. His rebounding is one of the single best attributes he's got.

The Thunder run a lot so they score a lot of transition points (4th in the league) but they're middle of the pack in terms of PPP (#11), score frequency (#13) and eFG% (#19) in transition. The evidence doesn't really point to Russell crashing the boards and starting the break being particularly productive in this area.

I agree that he's a good rebounder and it's always a plus for a player to better than average at anything, but we'll have to agree to disagree on the value of his "extra" rebounds (let's say ~3 a game) that are inflating his rebound totals. Example: late in the recent game against Atlanta, he sailed in to grab a rebound on a missed free throw before one of the two OKC bigs under the basket could get it. No one on Atlanta was in the vicinity of the ball. I'd argue that this is a rebound with virtually no value. Whether he starts the break from under the basket or gets an outlet pass from McGary 20 feet up the court is not going to change the likelihood that OKC scores on the ensuing possession.

You're again isolating a single incidence, which can be done both ways. OKC is actually 9th in PPP in transition, and yes getting the ball into his hands asap is important. As soon as a big comes down w the ball, defenders flock to hear m, and a pass gets forces elsewhere. Then you have Waiters running the break. His rebounding is the single most underrated part of his game.

[Texas Chuck]

Do not agree at all with this idea that defensive rebounds from a PG has no value. Just do not agree.

Of course I think people get way too caught up in the whole idea of positions anyway.

PG rebounds are by far the least contested (more than 70% are uncontested). A rebound from a PG is not equal to a rebound from a big. I won't say they have no value, but they have a lot less value.

In general this stat may be true. Do you have specific numbers on Westbrook? Or on other high rebounding PG's?

And again its always great if the ball starts in the hands of the guy you want to have the ball--fewer turnovers, more transition opportunities.

I'm not trying to say rebounding isn't a team activity--obviously it is. I'm not trying to say that's the first thing I look at from a PG, or guard in general. But what I am saying is this idea of just dismissing it out of hand is crazy.

[bondom34]

Do not agree at all with this idea that defensive rebounds from a PG has no value. Just do not agree.

Of course I think people get way too caught up in the whole idea of positions anyway.

PG rebounds are by far the least contested (more than 70% are uncontested). A rebound from a PG is not equal to a rebound from a big. I won't say they have no value, but they have a lot less value.

In general this stat may be true. Do you have specific numbers on Westbrook? Or on other high rebounding PG's?

And again its always great if the ball starts in the hands of the guy you want to have the ball--fewer turnovers, more transition opportunities.

I'm not trying to say rebounding isn't a team activity--obviously it is. I'm not trying to say that's the first thing I look at from a PG, or guard in general. But what I am saying is this idea of just dismissing it out of hand is crazy.

I got lazy after six guys as I'm on my phone, but a few players and contested rebound percentages...

Russ 28.1
Curry 20.7
CP 18.9 (fwiw Russ is similar to Hawes on LAC)
Tyreke Evans 25
Jimmy Butler 33.3
Lebron 21.7

[Keller61]

A point guard who rebounds a lot (Westbrook, Rondo) or a center who assists a lot (Noah) are recipes for triple-doubles.

I don't think a triple-double has any special value though. 20/10/10 isn't better than 30/8/8.

[Texas Chuck]

^^^ yeah and that's about what I expected to find. We have some lazy preconceptions that are difficult to fight, but we really should not make sweeping generalizations that don't reflect the reality of specific individuals. We underrate the actual impact of a lot of players because they don't fit in our flavored box.

[Keller61]

PG rebounds are by far the least contested (more than 70% are uncontested). A rebound from a PG is not equal to a rebound from a big. I won't say they have no value, but they have a lot less value.

In general this stat may be true. Do you have specific numbers on Westbrook? Or on other high rebounding PG's?

And again its always great if the ball starts in the hands of the guy you want to have the ball--fewer turnovers, more transition opportunities.

I'm not trying to say rebounding isn't a team activity--obviously it is. I'm not trying to say that's the first thing I look at from a PG, or guard in general. But what I am saying is this idea of just dismissing it out of hand is crazy.

I got lazy after six guys as I'm on my phone, but a few players and contested rebound percentages...

Russ 28.1
Curry 20.7
CP 18.9 (fwiw Russ is similar to Hawes on LAC)
Tyreke Evans 25
Jimmy Butler 33.3
Lebron 21.7

What about for defensive rebounds only? I imagine the offensive rebounds bring up his contested rb%.

[bondom34]

In general this stat may be true. Do you have specific numbers on Westbrook? Or on other high rebounding PG's?

And again its always great if the ball starts in the hands of the guy you want to have the ball--fewer turnovers, more transition opportunities.

I'm not trying to say rebounding isn't a team activity--obviously it is. I'm not trying to say that's the first thing I look at from a PG, or guard in general. But what I am saying is this idea of just dismissing it out of hand is crazy.

I got lazy after six guys as I'm on my phone, but a few players and contested rebound percentages...

Russ 28.1
Curry 20.7
CP 18.9 (fwiw Russ is similar to Hawes on LAC)
Tyreke Evans 25
Jimmy Butler 33.3
Lebron 21.7

What about for defensive rebounds only? I imagine the offensive rebounds bring up his contested rb%.

Dude, sorry but you can keep fishing for numbers all you want. People still want to discredit him for some preconceived ideas.

[Keller61]

And again its always great if the ball starts in the hands of the guy you want to have the ball--fewer turnovers, more transition opportunities.

Not necessarily. I think if your bigs are good outlet passers, you can get better transition opportunities by having them find the guard streaking down the court, rather than having the guard grab the rebound and have to dribble the whole way.

[bondom34]

A point guard who rebounds a lot (Westbrook, Rondo) or a center who assists a lot (Noah) are recipes for triple-doubles.

I don't think a triple-double has any special value though. 20/10/10 isn't better than 30/8/8.

This I completely agree with.

[dfins891]

And again its always great if the ball starts in the hands of the guy you want to have the ball--fewer turnovers, more transition opportunities.

Not necessarily. I think if your bigs are good outlet passers, you can get better transition opportunities by having them find the guard streaking down the court, rather than having the guard grab the rebound and have to dribble the whole way.

And the Thunder bigs, specifically Ibaka are pretty awful outlet passers. If you watch the Thunder you realize how important Westbrook's defensive rebounds are for their transition game as he is always pushing the ball immediately after grabbing a board and usually beats the opponent big down the floor who was fighting for that rebound.

[Prokorov]

The triple double is honestly the most overrated stat in the game and its quite disgusting to watch a player deliberately aim for it every game by trying stat pad every rebound and assist they can get.

A 25/12/5 game with 2 TOs on good efficiency is better than a 35/10/10 game on poor efficiency and with 8 TOs.
WB is playing great but not as great as some people think.

exactly.... deron williams almost had one last night at 10/10/9, but he didnt even have a good game, had a negative impact, and was part of why the nets got blown out by boston.

is 10/10/10 any better then 25/5/1 or 19/7/6 or something?