Should Suns keep starting lineup of Bledsoe-Tucker-Marcus-Kieff-Len or start Knight?

[bwgood77]

Knight was finding his rhythm when he got injured... i dont think it's fair to bench him right away (would u bench dragic in the same circunstances? I already know the answer)

But now I'm more inclined to see Bledsoe and Knight playing less time together and try to find a partner for him on our bench mob.

I think it's given us some good alternatives going forward. I'd still start Knight, but if we got down due to lack of defense early, or maybe regardless, take Knight out first and insert Tucker or Morris (whoever doesn't start) and let those guys clamp down on the other team defensively.

There will be times when we need more offense, even if it costs us a bit on defense...much like OKC with Kanter....starting him hurts their D big time but at that point they just realized if they can outdo the other team offensively, than you make up the difference no matter what, even if the opposing offense is still good, you are still a bit better. I'd stagger it more and use the newer lineup if the other team was just going gangbusters on offense, but go with Knight and Bledsoe if we need more offense.....but I'd still make sure you limited Knight's time with the other starters to allow him to run and get the second unit going....let him get the chemistry with Warren, Goodwin, Wright, etc.

I think ultimately it can help us because we now know we have different options.

I think some are judging Knight too harshly too fast because he has to get used to new teammates and stuff.

I do find it interesting that some now suddenly want to keep starting Tucker and Marcus both together because it is working even though some of the same people said before that there is no point not to develop the young guys more in an ill advised attempt to get that 8th seed.

I think it's also pretty important in the grand scheme of things to get Knight acclimated to playing with these guys since he is still young, improving, and developing. To me that trumps the importance of winning a few more games and likely getting the 14th pick instead of the 13th with an extreme long shot of making the playoffs.

[Revived]

Knight was finding his rhythm when he got injured... i dont think it's fair to bench him right away (would u bench dragic in the same circunstances? I already know the answer)

But now I'm more inclined to see Bledsoe and Knight playing less time together and try to find a partner for him on our bench mob.

I think it's given us some good alternatives going forward. I'd still start Knight, but if we got down due to lack of defense early, or maybe regardless, take Knight out first and insert Tucker or Morris (whoever doesn't start) and let those guys clamp down on the other team defensively.

There will be times when we need more offense, even if it costs us a bit on defense...much like OKC with Kanter....starting him hurts their D big time but at that point they just realized if they can outdo the other team offensively, than you make up the difference no matter what, even if the opposing offense is still good, you are still a bit better. I'd stagger it more and use the newer lineup if the other team was just going gangbusters on offense, but go with Knight and Bledsoe if we need more offense.....but I'd still make sure you limited Knight's time with the other starters to allow him to run and get the second unit going....let him get the chemistry with Warren, Goodwin, Wright, etc.

I think ultimately it can help us because we now know we have different options.

I think some are judging Knight too harshly too fast because he has to get used to new teammates and stuff.

I do find it interesting that some now suddenly want to keep starting Tucker and Marcus both together because it is working even though some of the same people said before that there is no point not to develop the young guys more in an ill advised attempt to get that 8th seed.

I think it's also pretty important in the grand scheme of things to get Knight acclimated to playing with these guys since he is still young, improving, and developing. To me that trumps the importance of winning a few more games and likely getting the 14th pick instead of the 13th with an extreme long shot of making the playoffs.

It's not about not developing talent or anything like that.

It's about moving on from the stupid dual PG offense and playing like a normal team instead of a gimmick team.

95% of the people who voted to keep Tucker at SG are likely all posters who want to move on from the stupid dual PG system.

Has nothing to do with Knight. Sure he's a good player but we already have Bledsoe, no more running 2 PGs crap.

If not Tucker at SG, I'm fine with moving him back to SF and starting the young Goodwin at SG instead.

But right now, Goodwin's getting minutes with Tucker starting so that's why many are ok with PJ-Marcus starting.

[Saberestar]

5 reasons why Phoenix Suns Brandon Knight should finish the season as the 6th man

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/ ... he-6th-man

[lilfishi22]

It's not about not developing talent or anything like that.

It's about moving on from the stupid dual PG offense and playing like a normal team instead of a gimmick team.

95% of the people who voted to keep Tucker at SG are likely all posters who want to move on from the stupid dual PG system.

Has nothing to do with Knight. Sure he's a good player but we already have Bledsoe, no more running 2 PGs crap.

If not Tucker at SG, I'm fine with moving him back to SF and starting the young Goodwin at SG instead.

But right now, Goodwin's getting minutes with Tucker starting so that's why many are ok with PJ-Marcus starting.

I'm with you on this. I think Bledsoe/Dragic would've be one of the very few back courts that could win with the right system. Of course, that back court was complemented by the Dragic/Frye unstoppable PnP. Now that we have neither the PnP, PnR or a backcourt combination that has consistently worked thus far, I'm fine with moving on from the dual PG system.

[bwgood77]

It's not about not developing talent or anything like that.

It's about moving on from the stupid dual PG offense and playing like a normal team instead of a gimmick team.

95% of the people who voted to keep Tucker at SG are likely all posters who want to move on from the stupid dual PG system.

Has nothing to do with Knight. Sure he's a good player but we already have Bledsoe, no more running 2 PGs crap.

If not Tucker at SG, I'm fine with moving him back to SF and starting the young Goodwin at SG instead.

But right now, Goodwin's getting minutes with Tucker starting so that's why many are ok with PJ-Marcus starting.

Well I AM about developing young talent. I don't know that I like the dual pg system, but I would like a great shooter and possibly playmaker at the 2.

I want to see Knight work with this team since we traded so much for him. If he is fine being a 6th man that MAY be the best use, but if it creates problems in re-signing him, then it is not worth it (for now) if we want to keep him. He might be best suited to play 6th man and with Goodwin, Warren, Wright on the second unit so that is fine for next year and should work for a while when he comes back, since he will need to ease his way in. I don't know if turning him into the 6th man long term before free agency starts is the best move though.

But, about the dual pg unit. If they want to do it, it's gonna happen, no matter how much people complain about it. I think they can probably play well together at times, but I wouldn't play them together at all times since I'd want one of them on the court at all times.

About being fine with starting Goodwin if Tucker sits, he is pretty much a pg too...it's not like he is a pure SG by any means. Knight is closer to that. They are both young with Knight having two more years experience. Do you just hate Knight?

[bwgood77]

I'm with you on this. I think Bledsoe/Dragic would've be one of the very few back courts that could win with the right system. Of course, that back court was complemented by the Dragic/Frye unstoppable PnP. Now that we have neither the PnP, PnR or a backcourt combination that has consistently worked thus far, I'm fine with moving on from the dual PG system.

Ultimately our bigs should learn how to effectively run the PnP or PnR or they might not belong in the league long term. They will.

[Revived]

It's not about not developing talent or anything like that.

It's about moving on from the stupid dual PG offense and playing like a normal team instead of a gimmick team.

95% of the people who voted to keep Tucker at SG are likely all posters who want to move on from the stupid dual PG system.

Has nothing to do with Knight. Sure he's a good player but we already have Bledsoe, no more running 2 PGs crap.

If not Tucker at SG, I'm fine with moving him back to SF and starting the young Goodwin at SG instead.

But right now, Goodwin's getting minutes with Tucker starting so that's why many are ok with PJ-Marcus starting.

Well I AM about developing young talent. I don't know that I like the dual pg system, but I would like a great shooter and possibly playmaker at the 2.

I want to see Knight work with this team since we traded so much for him. If he is fine being a 6th man that MAY be the best use, but if it creates problems in re-signing him, then it is not worth it (for now) if we want to keep him. He might be best suited to play 6th man and with Goodwin, Warren, Wright on the second unit so that is fine for next year and should work for a while when he comes back, since he will need to ease his way in. I don't know if turning him into the 6th man long term before free agency starts is the best move though.

But, about the dual pg unit. If they want to do it, it's gonna happen, no matter how much people complain about it. I think they can probably play well together at times, but I wouldn't play them together at all times since I'd want one of them on the court at all times.

About being fine with starting Goodwin if Tucker sits, he is pretty much a pg too...it's not like he is a pure SG by any means. Knight is closer to that. They are both young with Knight having two more years experience. Do you just hate Knight?

Lol no I don't hate Knight man. I hate the dual PG offense. We could have freaking Damian Lillard instead of Knight at SG and I would still hate a Bledsoe-Lillard backcourt.

I like Knight as 6th man too but I'm not sure he's gonna be cool with it. He was a near All Star caliber player starting for a winning team Bucks and then gets traded here and is gonna be a 6th man all of a sudden?

Even the Suns players themselves have been saying how it's so much better without an undersized player at SG. I think it's so much simpler for them defensively without having to overcommit due to a mismatch in size.

And I don't see Goodwin as a PG at all. He's an off guard, and he does better when he's in the off guard role as well. This has been clear both in the NBA so far and in the NCAA where Callpri tried to use him as a PG and it just did not work.

[Revived]

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned about the large line-up yet is Tucker abusing other SGs in the post on offense. Playing defense in the post is on of the most tiring aspects of basketball and shooting guards are usually not used to being physically abused on defense.

I mentioned it in OP lol but yea its obviously a big factor in Tucker's scoring increase lately.

Also, we always try to post up Tucker and even that works much better when he's playing the 2 because he has a strength advantage over most SGs in the league.

[Mr Puddles]

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned about the large line-up yet is Tucker abusing other SGs in the post on offense. Playing defense in the post is on of the most tiring aspects of basketball and shooting guards are usually not used to being physically abused on defense.

I mentioned it in OP lol but yea its obviously a big factor in Tucker's scoring increase lately.

Also, we always try to post up Tucker and even that works much better when he's playing the 2 because he has a strength advantage over most SGs in the league.

You're right, missed that... great minds think alike I guess

[MathiasPW]

Well I AM about developing young talent. I don't know that I like the dual pg system, but I would like a great shooter and possibly playmaker at the 2.

I want to see Knight work with this team since we traded so much for him. If he is fine being a 6th man that MAY be the best use, but if it creates problems in re-signing him, then it is not worth it (for now) if we want to keep him. He might be best suited to play 6th man and with Goodwin, Warren, Wright on the second unit so that is fine for next year and should work for a while when he comes back, since he will need to ease his way in. I don't know if turning him into the 6th man long term before free agency starts is the best move though.

But, about the dual pg unit. If they want to do it, it's gonna happen, no matter how much people complain about it. I think they can probably play well together at times, but I wouldn't play them together at all times since I'd want one of them on the court at all times.

About being fine with starting Goodwin if Tucker sits, he is pretty much a pg too...it's not like he is a pure SG by any means. Knight is closer to that. They are both young with Knight having two more years experience. Do you just hate Knight?

There is a term in economics called "sunk cost". Basically means that what you did to get to this point shouldn't really matter when deciding what to do from now on.

Knight will take all of Goodwin's and Price's minutes, and that's how he'll start. After that, I fully agree that it will be a case-by-case decision on which line-up to run, depending on what we need the most (off/def).

Also, we are crediting a lot of the recent improvement to the line-up, but there is a big chance that there has been a team commitment on making a playoff-push. The level of energy being put on games is huge, independently on who is in. This might continue once Knight is in, which would be best case scenario.

[bwgood77]

Lol no I don't hate Knight man. I hate the dual PG offense. We could have freaking Damian Lillard instead of Knight at SG and I would still hate a Bledsoe-Lillard backcourt.

I like Knight as 6th man too but I'm not sure he's gonna be cool with it. He was a near All Star caliber player starting for a winning team Bucks and then gets traded here and is gonna be a 6th man all of a sudden?

Even the Suns players themselves have been saying how it's so much better without an undersized player at SG. I think it's so much simpler for them defensively without having to overcommit due to a mismatch in size.

And I don't see Goodwin as a PG at all. He's an off guard, and he does better when he's in the off guard role as well. This has been clear both in the NBA so far and in the NCAA where Callpri tried to use him as a PG and it just did not work.

Most consider Knight more of a two guard though anyway, even though he might not feel that way. Can you show me the quotes about all the Suns saying this about an undersized player playing SG?

I guess Hornacek doesn't consider it that big of a deal, since he was originally a PG and moved to SG and was on teams that made the WCF at least four times, and the finals twice.

[bwgood77]

There is a term in economics called "sunk cost". Basically means that what you did to get to this point shouldn't really matter when deciding what to do from now on.

Knight will take all of Goodwin's and Price's minutes, and that's how he'll start. After that, I fully agree that it will be a case-by-case decision on which line-up to run, depending on what we need the most (off/def).

Also, we are crediting a lot of the recent improvement to the line-up, but there is a big chance that there has been a team commitment on making a playoff-push. The level of energy being put on games is huge, independently on who is in. This might continue once Knight is in, which would be best case scenario.

Yes, I know all about sunk costs due to my profession. I will need a larger sample size and more time with Knight at the two to decide how I feel. I generally would rather have a nice sized player at the two that can shoot and defend. Just not sure I would want to bench a near all star for PJ Tucker. I really like Tucker too.

But I definitely don't think they should ALWAYS play Bledsoe and Knight together, because I think one of them should be on the court at all times. That would mean about 32 minutes of time without both on the court (most of the time) if they each play around 32 minutes. The rest of the time you play Goodwin at the 2 or PJ if you really want to clamp down defensively.

I'm certainly glad we will never have 3 point guards on the floor though.

I think Knight is better at the 2 than at the 1 anyway, so that might be where we and you and SF88 disagree.

[Saberestar]

The question posed to Hornacek after practice was if Knight does play, does he regain his starting backcourt spot alongside Eric Bledsoe?

"We just kind of touched on it," Hornacek answered. "Right now I'm leaning to leaving (the first unit) the way it is just because he hasn't played in two or three weeks. To throw him in there, it might be better to get him a few minutes here and there just to get back acclimated."

To his credit, Knight, who has started in 265 of the 275 games he's played in four NBA seasons, is perfectly fine with coming off the bench.

"Team is playing well," he said, "so for myself, it's about being able to help the team and make sure I'm protecting myself at the same time."

During this 5-1 stretch, the Suns have improved their play on the defensive end of the floor.

"Our communication is better," Tucker explained.

The numbers back that up.
The Suns rank third in points allowed per game (9.13) and ninth in opponent field goal percentage (42.9) over the last six games.

"It's more of a defensive team out there than the offensive squad we had prior to that," Hornacek said. "They're in a mindset that when it comes to those last five, six minutes of the game that they're pretty confident they can stop guys. That's a big deal."

For the first time this season, the Suns have limited three straight opponents to sub-20-point fourth quarters.

"The way we've really come together and get stops at the end to finish games off has been great," Tucker said. "My teammates are really stepping it up."

Another byproduct of Morris starting is the added size it gives the Suns along the frontline.

Morris is 6-9 and joins 6-10 Markieff Morris and 7-1 Alex Len, not to mention Tucker, who checks in at 6-6, for a look other teams have not seen much of this season.

The result is the Suns have owned the boards, outrebounding their last six opponents.

"Me starting at the 3 and Tuck at the 2, we're really big," Marcus Morris said. "Any team with a smaller 2 or smaller 3, we're crashing (the boards), we're crashing real hard."

Said Markieff, "We've got length, we're big. PJ on two-guards, he's laying on them all game, beating them up all game and I think that's been the key, those two guys in there, defensively."

The bigger lineup has also allowed for more switching on the defensive end, according to Hornacek.
Of course no one is saying the Suns couldn't use Knight and his 17.2 points, 3.9 rebounds and 5.3 rebounds per game.

"It's great to have 'B' back and he's definitely going to help the team," Marcus said. "As far as starting unit, I'm not sure how they're going to do it, but our starting unit has been playing really well. I think our chemistry on that first unit has really been well—even the young guys coming in. The chemistry has just been right. I think 'B' is going to add to it. He's a great player, he's a great teammate. We'll see how it goes."
With 11 games remaining in this playoff push, Hornacek said all help is needed at this point.

"If (Knight is) back, it just gives us another weapon," he said. "We can always go to the big lineup later on, and obviously it will be a big part of what we do moving forward, but there's times where we can spread it out on teams, too.

"We need to get him back as soon as we can."

http://arizonasports.com/41/1819424/Jef ... don-Knight

[King4Day]

Just be ready to piss off knight. Would we be willing to pay 12-15mil for a 6th man?

[lilfishi22]

Yes, I know all about sunk costs due to my profession. I will need a larger sample size and more time with Knight at the two to decide how I feel. I generally would rather have a nice sized player at the two that can shoot and defend. Just not sure I would want to bench a near all star for PJ Tucker. I really like Tucker too.

But I definitely don't think they should ALWAYS play Bledsoe and Knight together, because I think one of them should be on the court at all times. That would mean about 32 minutes of time without both on the court (most of the time) if they each play around 32 minutes. The rest of the time you play Goodwin at the 2 or PJ if you really want to clamp down defensively.

I'm certainly glad we will never have 3 point guards on the floor though.

I think Knight is better at the 2 than at the 1 anyway, so that might be where we and you and SF88 disagree.

The difference is that while we may be better offensively with Knight starting, it appears it's our defense that has gotten us on a bit of a streak. Like you said, it's a small sample size but I feel like that's what's working now so we should see where it takes us rather than breaking what isn't broken just to insert a guy coming back from injury into the starting 2 spot.

[lilfishi22]

Just be ready to piss off knight. Would we be willing to pay 12-15mil for a 6th man?

Prime Ginobili is probably the only guard you would throw that kind of contract at and they would be happy to come off the bench.

[Saberestar]

Just be ready to piss off knight. Would we be willing to pay 12-15mil for a 6th man?

Prime Ginobili is probably the only guard you would throw that kind of contract at and they would be happy to come off the bench.

Prime Jason Terry probably too.

[Cutter]

Just be ready to piss off knight. Would we be willing to pay 12-15mil for a 6th man?

I wouldn't do this.

[bwgood77]

Yes, I know all about sunk costs due to my profession. I will need a larger sample size and more time with Knight at the two to decide how I feel. I generally would rather have a nice sized player at the two that can shoot and defend. Just not sure I would want to bench a near all star for PJ Tucker. I really like Tucker too.

But I definitely don't think they should ALWAYS play Bledsoe and Knight together, because I think one of them should be on the court at all times. That would mean about 32 minutes of time without both on the court (most of the time) if they each play around 32 minutes. The rest of the time you play Goodwin at the 2 or PJ if you really want to clamp down defensively.

I'm certainly glad we will never have 3 point guards on the floor though.

I think Knight is better at the 2 than at the 1 anyway, so that might be where we and you and SF88 disagree.

The difference is that while we may be better offensively with Knight starting, it appears it's our defense that has gotten us on a bit of a streak. Like you said, it's a small sample size but I feel like that's what's working now so we should see where it takes us rather than breaking what isn't broken just to insert a guy coming back from injury into the starting 2 spot.

Yeah, I would bring him off the bench at first to see if it continues, but I think Knight will be more valuable once he gets integrated than people seem to expect.

[nevetsov]

With only 10 games left in he season, we may have the luxury of bringing him off the bench for a few while he gets his rhythm, and reevaluating from there.

If we're winning and still conceivably in the playoff hunt, there's no real reason for his role to change.
If we're out of the race, then we can shut it down, give him starters minutes and experiment with nothing left to lose.

I doubt very much that the last ten games of the season will affect his market value this offseason.