Time to axe Mitch?

[Mamba Venom]

ESPN rated Mitch as one of the 5 WORST GMs in the league. He has the excuse of basketball reasons, however, this is a historic low for the Lakers. I'm not sure it's time to get rid of Mitch but it probably time to begin the discussion.

1. Gave up on Gasol/LO in 2011 instead of keeping our championship core together like the Spurs. Mitch did not believe in our core and had no patience. It was LO's best season. The Spurs have never even defended a title yet their GM keeps them together. This was a huge overreaction especially considering Kobe was injured. It lead to a bad relationship between the Lakers and both Gasol & LO.
2. Turned down trade offer (a) Bynum for Bosh and (b) Bynum for Melo when was offered in 2010-2011. Both moves would have likely won another championship.
3. Extremely overpaid for old Nash.
4. Showed no patience w/ Brown. Did not go with Phil in 2012. Mitch has stated he had just as much power in 2012 as he had the previous years. Chose to build around injured Nash's coach instead of 5 time Laker champion and best coach of all time.
5. Sold our #1 2009 draft pick for cash instead of trading for a future #1 pick. The Lakers made a HUGE profit. Should have stood up to management. He did the same thing during the 2000-2002 3 peat. NEVER SELL DRAFT PICKS for CASH. Trade them for future picks to speed up the inevitable rebuild.
6. Did not trade Howard for Griffen when that deal would have surely worked and Griffen would have been a perfect fit w. Gasol.
7. Various other moves and bad contracts.

This season is just about over. I think Mitch deserves a D for the year. It is normal to hold the GM accountable. I don't like Young's long term contract. Mitch didn't make a move for Rondo or Dragic. I think Mitch should the oppertunity to do something special in 2015-2016. If there are 3 consecutive historically bad seasons for the Lakers it may be time to move on.

There was only 5 years between '91 Finals team and Kobe/Shaq. There were only 4 years between '04 Finals team and '08 Finals team.

It's been 5 years since 2010 championship team. Maybe I'm getting impatient. I'm very frustrated with the moves our beloved Lakers have made.

[LApwnd]

1. I hated cp3 but that was sick deal, you got the a top 3 pg in the league, you saved money and could've signed on more ring chasers for the season
2. that's a Jim decision not a Mitch
3. that too was Jim call, he pushed Mitch to chase Nash and Nash wouldn't have considered us w/o getting paid the same as Ny/Tor was offering....Pho took advantage of our desperation
4. all coaching debacle should lay on Jim shoulders, he picked Brown w/o Mitch/Dr. Buss being at the interview, Mitch did want Phi, but Jim did not, you're only as good as what you're allowed to do. You can't override the president/owner.
5. that's debatable, why would a GM care of team makes money for draft picks? They don't because that money doesn't go in their pockets, so I'd look Jim's way also
6. Stupid rationale, you're just playing the "hindsight game", Mitch/Jim had to play out Howard situation in FA, Griffin was nothing but a stupid media generated garbage...Clipps weren't offering Griffin, they wanted Howard to pair with Griffin.

Majority of the blame for recent failures belong to Jim, his coaching hires have destroyed this team, Brown had no offense, MDA had no Defense and had to balls to sit Kobe thus Kobe playing boatloads of minutes leading to the injury. MDA offense alienated Howard but that was for the best, that chump thinks he's some sort of low block back to the basket player, he's not and was terribly inefficient at it too.

Give Mitch absolute power over personnel and coaching decision for 3 yrs, if he fail then he should go. But we all know daddys boy ain't letting go of the reign, he's gona do whatever he wants to do to prove he's capable of stepping into his fathers shoes.

[ALL HAIL]

The only earthly way I'd consider axing Kupchak is if Jerry West was walking back through the door.

Also, unless you were in the room, you have no godly idea who made what decision. Every decision falls at the feet of both Mitch and Jim.

[crazyeights]

2. Turned down trade offer (a) Bynum for Bosh and (b) Bynum for Melo when was offered in 2010-2011. Both moves would have likely won another championship.

How could anyone possibly know a championship is likely? Come on, man....

[crazyeights]

It's been 5 years since 2010 championship team. Maybe I'm getting impatient. I'm very frustrated with the moves our beloved Lakers have made.

You're ignoring the part where we had:

Nash/Kobe/Metta/Pau/Howard.

I don't care what the revisionist history buff in you says, the same site you used to start this thread is the one who predicted those 5 dudes were favorites to win a championship.

The rebuild started after Howard jumped ship, not in 2010. You're acting like the PJ's Last Stand didn't happen, that was a year too.

Your whole premise is off-base. It's Wednesday, maybe have a beer tonight and consider what you've done.

[Marionettetc]

Acting like a spoiled lakers fan.

Instead of feeling blessed with the level of franchise success we've been able to be here for in our lifetimes, your whole post is "wah wah why aren't we winning every year".

I don't generally care about appearances but it's posts like this that paint our community as spoiled brats.

[Jedi32]

First off espn has been the comedy central of sports for years now. How quickly we forget that we were just in the three straight finals a few years ago, and despite how many lame realgm posters say get over it the league fu*&ed us on the CP3 deal plain and simple. That deal is what is haunting us now. Sure we made some bad coaching hires but that single move is the main reason we aren't currently in contention. Mitch has more than proven himself to be among the best if not the best GM in this league. Axing him would make 0 sense imo.

[TheHartBreakKid]

Getting rid of Mitch would be the absoloutely worst move for our franchise, and we should all be praying every night that Mitch doesn't decide to leave the Lakers. With an unproven owner during a rebuild, we need someone like Mitch more than ever. Location, history and money doesn't mean much if the team is poorly managed...look at the Knicks.

The other people have analyzed the flaws in the OPs points, but Ill mention this...Mitch has actually made some good moves too, after the Cp3 trade and the Howard/Nash dilemma...(which were all good moves at the time...just turned out to be unlucky).
The truth is that after those franchise killing unlucky and unlikely events, we were actually doomed. Limited picks...no real cap future, aging star. This was inevitable with Kobe aging...The spurs are the exception to the rule. In reality, look at 90% of franchises when theyre franchise player gets old....they all rebuild. The spurs also have a piece so valuable that no other franchise has, which is Pop. Mitch actually almost managed to become the other exception to the rule, with the CP3/Howard moves. Things have actually turned out very well in comparison to what could have happened and that's partially because of Mitch making the right moves with the hands he was dealt.

1. Mitch managed to keep our cap situation very flexible. Other gms without a demanding player like Kobe are giving out terrible contracts left and right....imagine the pressure of having a player like Kobe desperately wanting his 6th ring with a mob following and having capspace, but not using that capspace (which was absolutely the right move), not to mention an owner desperate to prove himself.

Look at the amount of terrible contracts given out last year.....sometimes not making a move is actually the best move.

2. Drafted Clarkson, who could still be fools gold, but is looking like a core player. Not bad for a second round pick.
3. Got a late first in the Lin Trade, for absolutely nothing.


Truth is, we are in a good situation compared to how bad it could have been.

[TylersLakers]

Okay.. How about..

- Trading Kwame, Crittenton and a retired McKie for Gasol?
- Trading Evans and Cook for Ariza?
- Hitting on many second round picks?

If we fired Mitch, we'd be in complete disarray. Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows he's one of the best in the business.

[5ertwenty]

Hell no. GTFO. Somebody lock this thread.

[Karmaloop]

Is that you Jim?

[Fresh360Waves]

You sound like a typical spoiled fan on a Lakers Nation Facebook post.

[Kilroy]

ESPN is stupid as rocks... Don't be like them.

[Mirjalovic]

We are in great direction now..

on the way getting Town/Okafor/Mudiay/Russell and cap flexibility. We're doing great.

Mitch Kupchak probably one of the best GM on NBA, and just grateful its him, not Dumars

[aaron_gray]

I basically don't trust anything from espn that isn't coming from Marc stein

[dockingsched]

The lakers have won a championship more recently than 26 of the other 29 teams. They won a title as recently as 5 yrs ago, compare that to other franchises.

In those 5 years, the lakers lost their owner, had a historic setback with the trade veto, saw the end of Kobe as an elite elite player and had the most restricted CBA implentes that eliminated almost all of the ways the lakers used to build their contenders.

Perspective please.

[Mamba Venom]

Ow guys. I did not mean to come across entitled or spoiled. I did not mean to offend anyone. I respect Mitch. In the past he has done good. I also hold everyone accountable for their job performance. I respect Mitch more than Jim Buss. I admire that Jim Buss went on record stating he wants to be held accountable. Jim Buss has told the the fans a timeline for the Lakers to get back to winning or promised to step down. Mitch killed it on the Gasol trade! That is the best move of his career! That trade was so amazing. But lets not wear blinders. Mitch does not walk on water. I would bet Mitch would tell you that he needs to make a move soon.

Please do not attack me on the following list. I'm trying to remember many major moves by year. My intent is to remember all of them correctly. My timeline may be slightly off.

Moves by Mitch I do not like
-2001 sold 1st round draft pick for cash. The Lakers are very profitable. If we don't need the pick why not swap it for a future 1st.
-2003 let Horry go to our biggest rival the Spurs. We should have paid Horry. He earned it. Would added depth '04 - '08.
-2003 focused on super team. *I'm not hating on Mitch, that team was a fun idea but had no depth.
-2004 traded the glove for Mihm
-2005 traded the bright spot on the 2004-05 team; one of my favorite off the court Lakers Caron Butler; Kobe's favorite teammate for Kwame Brown. I know 3 years later we flipped Kwane so its all good, but Kwame was a major downgrade from future all-star Butler.
-2009 sold 1st round draft pick for cash. The Lakers are very profitable. If we don't need the pick why not swap it for a future 1st
-2009 Luke Walton full 5 mil + MLE
-2010 cut Gerald Green
-2011 turned down Bynum for Bosh, Bynum for Melo.
-2011 gave up on Gasol/LO. I would have liked to keep our championship core together like. That core had chemistry that was extremely rare and very special. That core was blown up after failing to reach the Finals 4 seasons in a row while Kobe was injured. I was so grateful for that core. I would have liked to see Kobe/Gasol/LO stay together like Magic/Kareem/Worthy did until they retired. I think the Spurs GM would have kept that core together and focused on trading Bynum for any other necessary pieces.
-2012 traded + 1st round pick and Kapono for a 23 game Sessions rental. Did not resign Sessions.
-2012 traded Fisher + 1st round pick for Hill. I wanted Fish to retire a Laker. I think Fish was the perfect backup for our team put in the wrong starting role. He played too many minutes. Fish has a clutch gene. Mitch publicly said he traded Fish because he would never come off of the bench. But we know Fish was a team guy and would do what the team needed. Fish publicly stated he would have had no problem coming off the bench for the Lakers. Luke said that if he were to write a book the subject would be just Derek Fisher quotes because they are so epic. I loved Fish. His positive attitude made him the ultimate teammate. I think Fisher could have helped young players the same way he helped the Thunder. Mitch did not show love to Gasol/LO/Fisher.
-2012 old Nash for 2 first round picks, failed to protected higher. Should have been top 14 protected. Mitch wanted a super team and redux of 03-04.
-2012 fired Brown 5 games in. Did not hire the best coach in Laker history Phil Jackson. Rebuilt around injured Nash's coach instead of Kobe's coach. It left a horrible taste in Phil's mouth.
-2013 the right move would have been Howard for Griffen, instead of getting no asset.

+Mitch is a very late adopter of advanced stats.

I like Mitch. Mitch will not be around forever. I made this thread to have basketball conversation about our GM. Not to get attacked guys. The thought crossed my mind that perhaps that karma may come full circle. Mitch may have to move on before he is ready that way Gasol, Odom, Fisher and Artest had to.

Jerry West did a great job mentoring Mitch. I would prefer if Jerry West advised the Lakers instead of the Warriors. Jerry West did an amazing job with LA (Kobe-Shaq, set up the 3 peat), amazing w/ the Grizzles (partially gifted us Gasol the same way McHale partially gifted KG to the Celtics) and helped make the Warriors the best regular season team in the NBA this season.

[Mamba Venom]

The lakers have won a championship more recently than 26 of the other 29 teams. They won a title as recently as 5 yrs ago, compare that to other franchises.

In those 5 years, the lakers lost their owner, had a historic setback with the trade veto, saw the end of Kobe as an elite elite player and had the most restricted CBA implentes that eliminated almost all of the ways the lakers used to build their contenders.

Perspective please.

I am super grateful to be a Lakers fan and understand that there is no guarantee the Lakers win another championship in my lifetime although I hope we will. We are blessed to have such a great franchise to root for. I bleed purple and gold. We should never take winning for granted. I do not agree with all of Mitch's moves especially the ones where I felt Fisher, Gasol, Odom and Artest deserved better. I loved our last championship team. I wish that Mitch would have kept them together the way Magic/Kareem/Worthy or Duncan/Manu/Parker were kept together. I really admire what the Spurs did after we beat them in 2008, they lost to the #6 seed in 2009 and lost to #8 seed in 2011. It's hard to keep guys together. But that group stayed together and redeemed the #1 seed upset into a trip back to the Finals and then a championship. We are going the other way. Hopefully the draft and free agency treats us good. Either way I will be a fan rooting for my Lakers.

[Mamba Venom]

I basically don't trust anything from espn that isn't coming from Marc stein

ESPN is horrible for sure. I don't know if you saw the article on how the Lakers are late adopters of advanced stats but they are constantly making articles about our shortcomings. The article about no one wanting to play with Kobe was outrageous. It was so bad Durant, George and Davis spoke out about how they would love to play with Kobe. I just think to myself get the shots in why you can, you have been waiting a long time for this. We will be back. We will shut you up with our on court play.

[aaron_gray]

I basically don't trust anything from espn that isn't coming from Marc stein

ESPN is horrible for sure. I don't know if you saw the article on how the Lakers are late adopters of advanced stats but they are constantly making articles about our shortcomings. The article about no one wanting to play with Kobe was outrageous. It was so bad Durant, George and Davis spoke out about how they would love to play with Kobe. I just think to myself get the shots in why you can, you have been waiting a long time for this. We will be back. We will shut you up with our on court play.

There's a direct conflict of interest here, where espn reporters want to break stories to further their careers. To do that, they need FOs to give them access, and they will write articles that increase this accessibility. That's why you always hear reporters talk about how everyone in the industry has "guys" that they protect and why 90% of woj's articles seem wack. We'll now you have it the other way around: let your guys leak **** for us or else we will run stories that paint you in a negative light.