Bulls Board BAT - Playoffs (East - Round 1)

[SimonFish]

Let's vote below! Don't vote for your own team (of course), but you may state your case.

First time getting 4 votes proceed to next round.

Lemme know if the depth chart is not updated - I just directly copied and pasted from your roster page.

1. 76ers vs 8. Pacers

76ers:
PG: Goran Dragic, Dennis Schroder, (Bayless)
SG: Victor Oladipo, Jerryd Bayless, (Dragic/Snell/Hill)
SF: Harrison Barnes, Tony Snell, Solomon Hill
PF: Kevin Love, Josh McRoberts, O'Quinn
C: Timofy Mozgov, Alexis Ajinca, (O'Quinn; McRoberts)
HC: Terry Stotts

Pacers:
PG - Darren Collison/Grievis Vasquez
SG - Klay Thompson/Kevin Martin
SF - Luol Deng/Terrence Ross
PF - Derrick Favors/Mike Scott/Ersan Ilyasova
C - Roy Hibbert / Kosta Koufos
HC: Frank Vogel

2. Celtics vs 7. Raptors

Celtics:
PG: George Hill (32) - Mo Williams (30) - Brian Roberts
SG: Dwyane Wade (30) - Jeremy Lamb (20) - Will Barton
SF: Carmelo Anthony (32) - Rodney Hood - TJ Warren
PF: Nene Hilario (25) - Lavoy Allen (18) - Richard Jefferson
C: Marc Gasol (33) - Andrea Bargnani (20) - Birdman
HC: Jason Kidd

Raptors:
PG- Brandon Jennings/Dante Exum/Tyler Ennis
SG- Ben McLemore/Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
SF-Jimmy Butler/Wesley Johnson/Bruno Caboclo/Luke Babbitt
PF- Serge Ibaka/Marvin Williams/Noah Vonleh
C- Jonas Valanciunas/Tyler Zeller
Head Coach- Steve Kerr

3. Hawks vs 6. Bulls

Hawks:
PG: Kyle Lowry / Reggie Jackson / Shaun Livingston / Norris Cole
SG: Demar Derozan / Mario Chalmers
SF: Thaddeus Young / Doug McDermott
PF: David West / Marcus Morris / Tyler Hansbrough
C: Dwight Howard / Nerlens Noel
HC: Brian Shaw

Bulls:
PG: Mike Conley / Cory Joseph / Alexey Shved
SG: Alec Burks / Nik Stauskas / Justin Holiday / Bogdan Bogdanovic (draft rights)
SF: Kawhi Leonard / K.J. McDaniels
PF: Greg Monroe / Thomas Robinson / Adreian Payne
C: Jusuf Nurkic / Kelly Olynyk
Head Coach: Quin Snyder

4. Wizards vs 5. Pistons

Wizards:
PG: Elrid Payton / Jarrett Jack / Zach Lavine
SG: Joe Johnson / Zach Lavine / Evan Turner
SF: Lebron James / Evan Turner
PF: Nikola Mirotic / Brandon Bass / Jason Thompson
C: Kenneth Faried / Mitch McGary / Anthony Bennett
Head Coach: Randy Whitman

Pistons:
Head Coach: Tom Thibodeau
PG: John Wall | Devin Harris
SG: Manu Ginobili | Thabo Sefalosha
SF: Andre Iguodala |
PF: Draymond Green | Ed Davis
C: Tyson Chandler | Marcin Gortat

[SimonFish]

Votes:

Pacers over 76ers (upset, because Favors can guard Love and Klay can guard one of 76ers guards, which neutralizes their strength)

Celtics over Raptors (Star power and balanced team).

Bulls over Hawks (Hawks have no shooter on their starting lineup and has Shaw as their headcoach).

Pistons over Wizards (both teams are similar, but I have Thibs over Whitman as the HC).

[GimmeDat]

1v8. Obviously not going to vote on this one, but I'll give some objective thoughts on the match-up. 76er's probably have the edge in PG play, Goran being the better starter, though Vasquez is a bit better and more experienced than Schroder at this point in their careers. Oladipo is remarkably similar to Bledsoe in many ways, and for that reason I think he will do great next to Dragic at the 2, however, as Simon noted, Klay, an exceptional defender, will be on him. I like Barnes but as a starter in this BAT I think he is a liability compared to most, and with my other elite wing defender in Deng free to guard him he should largely be a non-factor. Love is now questionable as a lead option on offense now, and Favors is one of my best defenders. Hibbert probably has the edge on Movgov, just.

I would also point to the difference in quality between 2nd units, I think my bench gives me a big advantage here compared to the 76ers bench, and Vogel is a big time coach.

2v7. Raps are built for the future, but I do think they put up a fight here. Hard to know what to expect out of Knight after his bad run in Phoenix so far, but here he will be the main ball-handler and have a similar role that he had in Milwaukee, and for that I give him the slight edge on George Hill. Butler, Ibaka and Jonas are all great players, but I would say McLemore isn't quite ready to contribute in a starting role in the playoffs and will be a liability, especially without a good distributing PG.

Celtics win the star power quite handily with Gasol, Wade and Anthony, though it's questionable how Wade and Melo fit together. Nene is a good piece as well. Neither team is particularly deep, but I'd give the bench advantage to the Raps despite their youth.

Two very good coaches, I give that a wash. Raptors get mightily close despite their youth, but you gotta give the edge to the proven star-power of the Celtics and their big-3 of Wade/Melo/Gasol.

CELTICS > Raptors

3v6. Another close matchup, but I'm going to give it to the Hawks. Lowry the slight edge over Conley, Demar over Burks, and a superior front-court in both 1st and 2nd units. I see the Hawks weaknesses as the SF position (where Young isn't ideal and is their only rotational player at the position outside of Doug who clearly isn't ready).

Outside of Kawhi and the vastly superior coaching advantage with Synder at the helm as opposed to Shaw, I don't see a whole lot pushing the Bulls over the top of the Hawks here. As Simon noted, no shooting in that starting lineup either.

HAWKS > Bulls

4v5. Pistons are a well built team, but are just a victim of the seeding here unfortunately. I'll give Detroit credit, they have a well built team that balances each other well, but they just lack the depth and star power. There's no real great scoring options on this team, Wall is best suited as a distributor and is forced into basically being the #1 option here. Iggy and even Manu aren't up for starting roles at this point in their careers either. Not a bad group of 2nd unit players, but they're lacking a backup SF altogether. You're basically playing Thabo the most minutes out of all wings here, big hole. The one advantage they have his defense, largely great defensive roster and Thibs at the helm.

As for the Wizards, the sweep this matchup on sheer talent. Between LBJ, Johnson, and Mirotic there's not a whole lot more that needs to be said, however there's some roster issues that could come up as problems in later rounds.

WIZARDS > Pistons

[Brybeck01]

The East matchup were pretty tough to call! I’m slammed at work, but hope to come back and edit my post to provide more reasoning.

8. Pacers over 1. 76ers, but would be a heck of a battle. This was a tough call for me.

2. Celtics over 7. Raptors

3. Hawks over 6. Bulls

5. Pistons over 4. Wizards, though Lebron would make it a heck of a fight. Wiz are going to excel once Payton, Lavine, Niko and McGary get more time.

[mattyj912]

Pacers-the d is stifling and the guards will score enough.

Celtics

Hawks

Wizards

[frosty23]

Pacers, Celtics, Hawks, Wizards

[MGB8]

The Sixers would beat the Pacers handily- it's about matchups.

In this case, McRoberts would spend a lot of time at center, and with Love and McRoberts, Favors and Hibbert would be pulled out of the paint. So the question would be, would Collison and Thompson really be able to stop Dragic and Oladipo, with their bigs pulled out? Nope. And if they don't come out, a 38% 3 pt shooter in Love, a 40% 3 point shooter in Hibbert, a 40+% 3 point shooter in and enough not enough ability to score via penetration from the Pacers perimeter players to punish the Sixers lack of a defensive anchor for large stretches.

Meanwhile, where would the Pacers scoring come from. Klay Thompson would get his, sure, although Barnes might be put on Klay because Deng really isn't an offensive threat. Collison is fine but not special. Hibbert is a mediocre scorer and Favors really isn't a primary offensive player - he's a mid-level offensive player. And with Vogel, we have no reason to expect that the Pacers would be especially good on offense.

[MGB8]

Beyond the Sixers over the Pacers,

Celtics over Raptors, Bulls over Hawks, and Wizards over Pistons (Jack playing more than Payton), but in an unexpectedly grimy series.

[AustinCarr61]

76ers over Pacers - benches

Celtics over Raptors - talent level

Hawks over Bulls - fit overcoming coaching; close series

Pistons over Wizards - LeBron can't defend the endless 1-5 PnRs himself

[GimmeDat]

The Sixers would beat the Pacers handily- it's about matchups.

In this case, McRoberts would spend a lot of time at center, and with Love and McRoberts, Favors and Hibbert would be pulled out of the paint. So the question would be, would Collison and Thompson really be able to stop Dragic and Oladipo, with their bigs pulled out? Nope. And if they don't come out, a 38% 3 pt shooter in Love, a 40% 3 point shooter in Hibbert, a 40+% 3 point shooter in and enough not enough ability to score via penetration from the Pacers perimeter players to punish the Sixers lack of a defensive anchor for large stretches.

Meanwhile, where would the Pacers scoring come from. Klay Thompson would get his, sure, although Barnes might be put on Klay because Deng really isn't an offensive threat. Collison is fine but not special. Hibbert is a mediocre scorer and Favors really isn't a primary offensive player - he's a mid-level offensive player. And with Vogel, we have no reason to expect that the Pacers would be especially good on offense.

I'm not going to go around questioning everyones rationale (because I disagree with a few that I've seen), but seeing as you took the time to explain your opinion, I'll rebut.

If Love/McRoberts was the primary front-line, it would get eaten alive by Favors and Hibbert. Love will probably get his on the perimeter with Favors on him, but a lot of his scoring is on the interior/offensive boards, and Favors is a great cover for him in that regard, and McRoberts isn't going to score much (averages 9 points/per 36).

As for where the scoring will come from, Favors will abuse Love/McRoberts for 20+ a game, you might want to check the season he's having because he's improved a lot, and so long as you've got Mosgov on the bench Hibbert will be able to contribute down low on the other undersized/weak defender. Klay will have a tough cover with Oladipo on him but as you said, he'll still largely get his own as the primary scoring option. Deng is absolutely not a non-factor on offence, so if you're going to leave him the odd man out, he will be another major option. He averages 14-15 as a 3/4th option, but pointing to the end of his Bulls stint, he can score 18-19 a game if you increase his volume.

I'll also quickly point out, Austin mentioned 76ers > Pacers because of benches. To each there own, but it seems to me we have the vastly superior bench. Vasquez/KMart/Ross/Ilyasova/Koufos >>>> Schroder/Bayless/Snell/McRob/Ajinca.

[MGB8]

You gave your rationale first and repeated again, so I will again reply. IMO, you are heavily overrating Favors. First, his defense is kinda mediocre. Per 82games, he gives up a ton of points to opposing PFs at 55%, despite Gobert, despite being on a team often not taken seriously in the west. When he leaves the Court, Utah's defense improves - the allow a full 2% lower shooting percentage.

On offense, he is heavy on the jump shots so he's not abusing anyone in the post. Oh, and he's assisted 68% of the time, but who is going to create for him, especially on a Vogel defense-first, offense-afterthought team?

And spacing? Favors doesn't give you much and neither does softy Hibbert, so while Klay is a great scorer and Collison and Deng are respectable, the Sixers will be able to cheat when needed, though the focus will be containing Klay.

If Klay doesn't have a big game, the Pacers lose. And Klay has not shown that he can consistently be big time without the spacing (and creation) that Curry, especially, but also Barnes and Draymond Green bring.

Sixers win the series walking away IMO. Favors and Hibbert will be pulled out or give up huge numbers of open 3s, Dragic will have no problem shooting over Collison or passing by Vasquez slow feet, and Oladipo and Barnes will still get more than enough points with the paint free once they get past their man who has to guard them way up. And when the Pacers smaller bigs come in, Ajinca will sub in to feast at his super high percentage.

[SHAQ32]

Sixers over Pacers

Celtics over Raptors

Hawks over Bulls

Wizards over Pistons

[GimmeDat]

You gave your rationale first and repeated again, so I will again reply. IMO, you are heavily overrating Favors. First, his defense is kinda mediocre. Per 82games, he gives up a ton of points to opposing PFs at 55%, despite Gobert, despite being on a team often not taken seriously in the west. When he leaves the Court, Utah's defense improves - the allow a full 2% lower shooting percentage.

On offense, he is heavy on the jump shots so he's not abusing anyone in the post. Oh, and he's assisted 68% of the time, but who is going to create for him, especially on a Vogel defense-first, offense-afterthought team?

And spacing? Favors doesn't give you much and neither does softy Hibbert, so while Klay is a great scorer and Collison and Deng are respectable, the Sixers will be able to cheat when needed, though the focus will be containing Klay.

If Klay doesn't have a big game, the Pacers lose. And Klay has not shown that he can consistently be big time without the spacing (and creation) that Curry, especially, but also Barnes and Draymond Green bring.

Sixers win the series walking away IMO. Favors and Hibbert will be pulled out or give up huge numbers of open 3s, Dragic will have no problem shooting over Collison or passing by Vasquez slow feet, and Oladipo and Barnes will still get more than enough points with the paint free once they get past their man who has to guard them way up. And when the Pacers smaller bigs come in, Ajinca will sub in to feast at his super high percentage.

Don't think I really repeated anything there. In terms of who's assisting for Favors, if he can score 19ppg/per36 with Burke/Exum running the offense, Collison will only help improve those numbers.

As for the starting front-line not stretching the floor, Favors can shoot the mid-range J, as you said, but if we want to space the floor even more we have 2 excellent stretch 4's in Ilyasova and Mike Scott. If these are my 'smaller bigs', they'll be playing the 4 not the 5, so Ajinca isn't going to match up on them, and even if he did we'd be stretching him out to the 3 point line.

As I said, Love would get his on the 3 point line more or less, but McRobert's isn't putting up "huge numbers of open 3's", he's a low volume scorer that shoots one 3 a game.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[MGB8]

McRoberts is low volume but if you leave him open hill bury the 3, but if you chase him out he'll pass. And since Hibbert put up only 10-3 tonight vs Pauchila, I'm not concerned about putting McBob on him. Btw, Vogel's D gave up 111 to the MCW led Bucks, with Ilyasova showing how vulnerable that scheme is to stretch 4s.

As for Favors, Love will get his points and boards, and Favors will get his averages, which won't be enough to offset Love. It wouldn't likely be a sweep, but unless Klay goes off 4 games (possible, despite the Sixers ability to focus around him) Collison will get beat up by Dragic and/or Oladipo (on switches), and also open up things from 3, and the Sixers would win more than lose.

[ChicagoSportsFan21]

76ers vs Pacers
Winner: Pacers
Reasoning: Close match-up for a 8 vs 1. I'm going to go with the Pacers as they have a little bit more playoffs experience compared to the Sixers.

Celtics vs Raptors
Winner: Celtics
Reasoning: Too much offensive firepower for the Celtics. Wade against Mclemore is a mismatch. Wade will lead his team to victory.

Hawks vs Bulls
Winner: Hawks
Reasoning: I like the Hawks depth/bench more than the Bulls, which could make a difference in this one.

Wizards vs Pistons
Winner: Pistons
Reasoning: I'm going to go with the Pistons due to better coach/bench/more playoff experience.

[SHAQ32]

I question those who put Indiana over NYK, our starting lineup is stronger and our bench is stronger

Klay Thompson
Derrick Favors
??

Vs

Kyrie Irving
Rudy Gobert
Chandler Parsons

My bench is stronger and my cap is lower. We got shafted.

Same goes for Toronto and Chicago.

[Context]

Pacers- Celtics- Hawks -Wizards