Okafor or Towns? Which center is the better pick?

[DickGrayson]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/582328460145606656[/tweet]
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I believe Towns will be a better team leader and locker room guy than Okafor also.

Based on what?

Body language on the court and aggressive.
Okafor strikes me as a soft man with brute strength but will back down when he gets out hustled. Okafor has a lot of fake hustle.

[ibraheim718]

Better defensively today than he's been in the past still a bunch of lazy habits and even stretches where he looked afraid to defend out there.

Looked very ordinary offensively. Not very assertive and his touch was off.

Biggest concern for me though has been his gas tank. Am I the only one seeing a significant decline in that thing since the tourney started? Like these one day rest periods aren't long enough for him. Very scary thought. Likely to hit the rookie wall fairly early if this is the case.

His conditioning took a toll when he rolled the ankle against Carolina. Conditioning is going to be an important thing for him because of how much weight he carries he's going to have to work harder to stay in tip-top shape. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to get back to the shape he was in prior to the injury because he's still after all a student-athlete. If you go back and watch him before the injury you can easily tell that he doesn't look the same running up and down the floor as he does now. He's also the type of player that needs to consistently play heavy minutes to keep that game shape up.

[Marcus]

Better defensively today than he's been in the past still a bunch of lazy habits and even stretches where he looked afraid to defend out there.

Looked very ordinary offensively. Not very assertive and his touch was off.

Biggest concern for me though has been his gas tank. Am I the only one seeing a significant decline in that thing since the tourney started? Like these one day rest periods aren't long enough for him. Very scary thought. Likely to hit the rookie wall fairly early if this is the case.

His conditioning took a toll when he rolled the ankle against Carolina. Conditioning is going to be an important thing for him because of how much weight he carries he's going to have to work harder to stay in tip-top shape. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to get back to the shape he was in prior to the injury because he's still after all a student-athlete. If you go back and watch him before the injury you can easily tell that he doesn't look the same running up and down the floor as he does now. He's also the type of player that needs to consistently play heavy minutes to keep that game shape up.

Forgot about that injury.

[Marcus]

I believe Towns will be a better team leader and locker room guy than Okafor also.

Based on what?

Body language on the court and aggressive.
Okafor strikes me as a soft man with brute strength but will back down when he gets out hustled. Okafor has a lot of fake hustle.

What body language?

[[e]]

Towns seems to have the higher ceiling. I don't think you can go wrong with either guy, but I'm betting Towns is picked ahead of Okafor since he's more of a two way player at the moment. Both are easily top 5 - and IMO should go 1 and 2. Their predraft workouts and interviews will be the deciding factors, pretty similar situation to Jabari and Wiggins.

[BoutPractice]

Now there's a decent chance they'll face each other for the biggest game of all, in an old school battle of the centers. This could be fun No clue what'll happen if we're blessed with this matchup, but I'll be watching.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aUpq0PvlHA[/youtube]

Towns stepping up after a non performance in the previous game with old school, back-to-the-basket dominance. Particularly impressed by his positioning, passing, and how generally poised and patient he looks down in the post at such a young age. They kept going to him and he kept delivering, including down the stretch... one boring hook shot after another, almost all baskets self-created. It may all look a bit mechanical but it works... you have to pay attention to the details, particularly the way he uses his upper body. This ought to translate. There are hook shots and hook shots and his should still work in the NBA.

"Peak" Bynum (if there is such a thing), Horford still decent lazy comparisons for the kind of impact he might have at the next level, with a Duncan style, two-way, 20/10 center as the ceiling. I'm more and more convinced that he has a pretty high floor as well as a high ceiling, the biggest risks being injury or unanticipated mental breakdown. If those don't materialize, I would be very surprised if five or so years from now he's not at least an all-star known as "one of the" very good centers in the league.

Curiously it's Okafor who strikes me as considerably more high risk. (Fairly high reward as well, but Towns' is even higher) Perhaps he'll show something in the last couple of games.

[JimboSlice]

^one of the better breakdowns of the two. I think that either are fairly low risk as far as bigs go, because they both have legitimate nba skill sets and not just "size and athleticism".

Had the pleasure of getting to watch okafor live, and came away pretty impressed. I think his defensive deficiencies, while certainly there, tend to get overstated as he has pretty decent positioning. Attitude-wise, what I liked was that when he got rattled, he immediately responded with an increased effort on the glass to get himself going again, and proceeded to carry that momentum forward to take over the rest of the game (@fsu). He also moves well, and although not overly quick, is smooth and fluid with and without the ball.

Really it's a win-win imo. I see towns as the better prospect of the two, but I think both will be successful at a high level barring injury.


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[E-Balla]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/582328460145606656[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/582326396803948544[/tweet]

Both ends of the floor? How in the hell can someone believe Towns has more offensive potential... I feel like people are seriously underestimating Okafor's feel for the game. How many young post players do you see that don't force the issue and handles double teams as well as he does?

Just catching up to what most who have been following closely has been seeing the last few months....

The troubling thing with okafor has been his inability to finish over size.... Something that plagues these big ground bound frontcourt players in college... He's 7-15 the last two games which for a guy whose calling card is dominant offense is a bit troubling.... Things should be ok if he stays committed to a bruising low post game and it was just an adjustment to get him the ball.. but if he's facing up NBA centers it probably won't end well....

Don't you mean Towns? Towns just killed ND who has one player over 6-5 and against the big teams like Cinci, UNC, and Arkansas he looked like another guy. Last time a team let their big play Okafor 1 on 1 most of the game was the Virginia Tech game and he ate the 7-0 255 C guarding him alive. He also ate SDSU alive and they're bigger than any team Towns has had 10+ points against I can think of. Two games where he played NBA prospect bigs and dealt with insanely hard doubles/triples off ball (Utah) or frequent doubles (yesterday) shouldn't change people's opinions on him when he's killed big teams all year.

Now there's a decent chance they'll face each other for the biggest game of all, in an old school battle of the centers. This could be fun No clue what'll happen if we're blessed with this matchup, but I'll be watching.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aUpq0PvlHA[/youtube]

Towns stepping up after a non performance in the previous game with old school, back-to-the-basket dominance. Particularly impressed by his positioning, passing, and how generally poised and patient he looks down in the post at such a young age. They kept going to him and he kept delivering, including down the stretch... one boring hook shot after another, almost all baskets self-created. It may all look a bit mechanical but it works... you have to pay attention to the details, particularly the way he uses his upper body. This ought to translate. There are hook shots and hook shots and his should still work in the NBA.

"Peak" Bynum (if there is such a thing), Horford still decent lazy comparisons for the kind of impact he might have at the next level, with a Duncan style, two-way, 20/10 center as the ceiling. I'm more and more convinced that he has a pretty high floor as well as a high ceiling, the biggest risks being injury or unanticipated mental breakdown. If those don't materialize, I would be very surprised if five or so years from now he's not at least an all-star known as "one of the" very good centers in the league.

Curiously it's Okafor who strikes me as considerably more high risk. (Fairly high reward as well, but Towns' is even higher) Perhaps he'll show something in the last couple of games.

I've been saying this for awhile. Towns has no weaknesses outside of his physicality and robotic post game so I don't see him as high risk at all. In that same light I feel he has a more defined ceiling than Okafor who can become the best offensive C in the league one day and with a dedication to his conditioning he can become a decent defender (which I think will come like it did for Love, Cousins, Marc, etc). When comparing downsides I usually look at a player's weaknesses and when comparing upsides I look at their positives and Jahlil's positives are more defined than Towns'.

I think of Towns as a potential 20-22/12/4 with good defense (not All-Defense or DPOY level though. At least not with Nerlens and Gobert in the league) guy but Jahlil is a potential 27/12/3 with passable defense (think Shaq but smaller or DeMarcus Cousins) guy. Towns seems like he can be the lead piece to a great team but Jahlil has franchise carrying potential to me.

[bwgood77]

I think of Towns as a potential 20-22/12/4 with good defense (not All-Defense or DPOY level though. At least not with Nerlens and Gobert in the league) guy but Jahlil is a potential 27/12/3 with passable defense (think Shaq but smaller or DeMarcus Cousins) guy. Towns seems like he can be the lead piece to a great team but Jahlil has franchise carrying potential to me.

Wow, those are some hefty expectations. What you think Towns is capable as AVERAGING has happened four times in history. Twice by Hakeem, once by Robinson and once by Kareem.

http://bkref.com/tiny/YFxKk

And what you think Okafor has the potential to average has happened five times. Three by Kareem, once by McAdoo and once by Shaq.

http://bkref.com/tiny/yiPq6

It's amazing to me every year people think guys in the draft are going to be historic, legendary players.

[BoutPractice]

I used to think that, but it turns out this is more rational than it seems. Nowadays because draft enthusiasts are savvier they're actually prone to underestimating prospects if anything. The truth is, if you look at the track record, there ARE HOF type players in most drafts. And in many drafts there are even several. (Not always "legendary", but "never happened before" is not always legendary, sometimes it's just cherry picking numbers and saying they never happened before) No one in 2009 wanted to predict Curry or Harden would turn out to be MVP worthy players. It seemed safer to think of them as potentially "very good" players. Yet both of them are fighting for the award as we speak. Now the downside is, the track record also tells us that there are busts in every drafts... including players previously seen as "safe".

The cruelty of the draft is, it's a winner-takes-all game. It's normal for people who follow the process closely to "hedge their bets", because they have almost too much knowledge, there are simply too many variables to consider. But reality never looks like the nice comfortable mean. Usually in a given draft, there's at least one big superstar everyone wish they'd taken... a couple of all stars, perhaps one expected and one unexpected, from late in the draft or even a second rounder... a decent player who they were certain was going to contribute, but who now looks like the wrong pick because he was taken just before the big superstar, or one of the all-stars... great role players who might play 15+ years... the guy who initially looks really good and gets a spot in the all-rookie first team, but who no one will remember 10 years after... a complete bust, often taken in the first three picks, sometimes surprising everybody... etc. It's much more colourful, and much more fun.

[E-Balla]

I think of Towns as a potential 20-22/12/4 with good defense (not All-Defense or DPOY level though. At least not with Nerlens and Gobert in the league) guy but Jahlil is a potential 27/12/3 with passable defense (think Shaq but smaller or DeMarcus Cousins) guy. Towns seems like he can be the lead piece to a great team but Jahlil has franchise carrying potential to me.

Wow, those are some hefty expectations. What you think Towns is capable as AVERAGING has happened four times in history. Twice by Hakeem, once by Robinson and once by Kareem.

http://bkref.com/tiny/YFxKk

And what you think Okafor has the potential to average has happened five times. Three by Kareem, once by McAdoo and once by Shaq.

http://bkref.com/tiny/yiPq6

It's amazing to me every year people think guys in the draft are going to be historic, legendary players.

What in the hell made you see 20-22/12/4 and think I expect him to average 4 blocks and not assists and why in the hell would you think 27/12/3 meant 3 blocks? I'm 90% sure all stat sheets list points, rebounds, and assists first in that order. Critical thinking is important...

Here's how common what I called these guys' ceilings are:

http://tinyurl.com/oqrc3ce
6 players post merger and 13 total for Okafor.

http://tinyurl.com/qzzq24o
26 players and 15 post merger for Towns.

Also do you know how common freshman averaging 15+ ppg on 67% shooting in a major conference is? Do you know how common freshman C's shooting 81% from the freethrow line and 56% from the field are? These two are way ahead of most C's their age all time not just currently.

Also it's rare I predict players will be anything over 2nd tier stars. The last time I did was with Anthony Davis and before him Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, Greg Oden, Beasley, and Derrick Rose were the only players I ever expected to be serious MVP candidates one day. Jahlil is on that level as a prospect for me right now and Towns is probably on the next level with guys like Jabari, Embiid, Wall, Noel, D'angelo, and Evan Turner. Rarely do I ever talk up players like this and not hedge by bet some way (go check the threads over the last 2 seasons where I wasn't really high on anyone).

[bwgood77]

I think of Towns as a potential 20-22/12/4 with good defense (not All-Defense or DPOY level though. At least not with Nerlens and Gobert in the league) guy but Jahlil is a potential 27/12/3 with passable defense (think Shaq but smaller or DeMarcus Cousins) guy. Towns seems like he can be the lead piece to a great team but Jahlil has franchise carrying potential to me.

Wow, those are some hefty expectations. What you think Towns is capable as AVERAGING has happened four times in history. Twice by Hakeem, once by Robinson and once by Kareem.

http://bkref.com/tiny/YFxKk

And what you think Okafor has the potential to average has happened five times. Three by Kareem, once by McAdoo and once by Shaq.

http://bkref.com/tiny/yiPq6

It's amazing to me every year people think guys in the draft are going to be historic, legendary players.

What in the hell made you see 20-22/12/4 and think I expect him to average 4 blocks and not assists and why in the hell would you think 27/12/3 meant 3 blocks? I'm 90% sure all stat sheets list points, rebounds, and assists first in that order. Critical thinking is important...

Here's how common what I called these guys' ceilings are:

http://tinyurl.com/oqrc3ce
6 players post merger and 13 total for Okafor.

http://tinyurl.com/qzzq24o
26 players and 15 post merger for Towns.

Also do you know how common freshman averaging 15+ ppg on 67% shooting in a major conference is? Do you know how common freshman C's shooting 81% from the freethrow line and 56% from the field are? These two are way ahead of most C's their age all time not just currently.

Also it's rare I predict players will be anything over 2nd tier stars. The last time I did was with Anthony Davis and before him Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, Greg Oden, Beasley, and Derrick Rose were the only players I ever expected to be serious MVP candidates one day. Jahlil is on that level as a prospect for me right now and Towns is probably on the next level with guys like Jabari, Embiid, Wall, Noel, D'angelo, and Evan Turner. Rarely do I ever talk up players like this and not hedge by bet some way (go check the threads over the last 2 seasons where I wasn't really high on anyone).

Ok, so you meant assists instead of blocks. For both of your links, that is three individual seasons in the last 8 years. Still extremely rare in this day and age.

I know Okafor has shown rare offensive skills for a freshman center and Towns looks like a great prospect, but I just generally think people have enormous expectations every year for people in the draft.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out though.

[Joseph17]

I'd go with Towns

Although Okafor has a good post game, that's really the only area he excels over Towns. Towns is better away from the basket, a better FT shooter, and a better defender.

I think it's easier to improve on the things that Okafor his bad (shooting) at than the things Towns is bad at (footwork and athleticism/mobility). You rarely ever see players improve their footwork and athleticism, but you see players improve their shot all the time especially when the player has horrible mechanics like Okafor. A good shooting coach can easily make Okafor a better shooter.

LOL....Towns has bad mobility and athleticism?
I wish people who don't watch these kids play would stop participating on these threads.

Actually, I have seen them play. I shouldn't have used the word bad because he's not bad in those areas, but it certainly isn't his strength. A person who hasn't seen them play would probably think Towns is more athletic and mobile since he has a really good max vert for a person his size and he will probably perform better than Okafor during the pre-draft workouts. Performing well there doesn't always translate to in game athletics/mobility though. Durant performed poorly during the pre-draft workouts and it's obvious that he's more athletic and more mobile than about 99.9% of people who are his height. In contrast, a person like Joe Alexander performed really well there but it's obvious that KD is more athletic and mobile than Joe. That's where watching the games comes in. Towns' moves on the offensive end are very mechanical and his moves aren't quick either. He's probably quicker than Okafor at moving his feet laterally on the defensive end, but that's about it. He'll probably end up being a better defensive player than Okafor as a result but Okafor will be better on offense.

[djphan]

Don't you mean Towns? Towns just killed ND who has one player over 6-5 and against the big teams like Cinci, UNC, and Arkansas he looked like another guy. Last time a team let their big play Okafor 1 on 1 most of the game was the Virginia Tech game and he ate the 7-0 255 C guarding him alive. He also ate SDSU alive and they're bigger than any team Towns has had 10+ points against I can think of. Two games where he played NBA prospect bigs and dealt with insanely hard doubles/triples off ball (Utah) or frequent doubles (yesterday) shouldn't change people's opinions on him when he's killed big teams all year.

Here's the difference.... okafor is known for dominant offense .. and if he's not getting consistent good looks against guys who are actually good.. that's a problem isnt it? he's generally been fine... and maybe they just wanted to have him avoid doubles but he was very hesitant to be physical with any of them... that's what gives me pause... and if you're looking at him in a honest light it should probably give you pause also... i generally trust the numbers and the offensive side still looks good so i'm not too down on him on that side.. if anything the rebounding trends which have been going on for longer are more of a concern...

and for towns... the same thing applies... the numbers are what they are... louisville is another team with consistent size and a great defense and he had no problem banging with them... notre dame isn't the greatest defense but how many guys in college basketball would do what towns did against them? 25 pts in 23 minutes in the post? not even okafor was scoring at that rate in any of his games against them... just the fact that he was even close to okafor...

so yeah.. it's impressive anyway you slice it and i've been saying it all year.. when they need buckets.. they goto towns.. and they did and they won... underselling that is a far far reach...

[reignfire]

No way will Okafor average 12 rebounds a game in the NBA.

Cousins averaged 18 rebounds per40 in college and is now averaging 12 rpg in the pros.

Okafor is averaging around 10-11 rebounds per40 in college. Okafor will probably average 7/8 rpg in the pros.

[Zombiesonics]

niether of these guys are franchise center pieces, DX and whoever must be drunk. Okafor is basically enes kanter, and KAT has no nba comp i can even think of. Nba defense is different than ncaa, where you just hang around the paint ( no three seconds) and block shots lmao. its quite possible his defense might not be a strength at the nba level, so what will he bring to a team? He isn't Pau gasol, or a Brow, or a Boogie. Early on his career he more than likely a garbageman on a contender. premier garbageman on a stinker. There is no doubt he has upside because of his genes and body, but people need to pump the breaks anointing him a future all star/ center piece.

[DickGrayson]

"neither of these guys are franchise pieces"

- only seen Okafor and Towns play a total of 10 games combined.

[Zombiesonics]

"neither of these guys are franchise pieces"

- only seen Okafor and Towns play a total of 10 games combined.

what the hell are you talking about dick. you aint ****. I've watched every jah game, less KAT, but more than 10 games.

[jman3134]

I believe Towns is a bit overrated on the defensive end at this point. I understand that he has made some strong plays from the help side at times for UK, but he does still struggle against elite bigs 1 on 1 and on switches imo.

That said, I have always liked Towns' advanced skill level and believe he will develop in the NBA. I do believe that UK is somewhat masking some of the holes in his game as it currently stands, though.

[DickGrayson]

I think it's easier to improve on the things that Okafor his bad (shooting) at than the things Towns is bad at (footwork and athleticism/mobility). You rarely ever see players improve their footwork and athleticism, but you see players improve their shot all the time especially when the player has horrible mechanics like Okafor. A good shooting coach can easily make Okafor a better shooter.

LOL....Towns has bad mobility and athleticism?
I wish people who don't watch these kids play would stop participating on these threads.

Actually, I have seen them play. I shouldn't have used the word bad because he's not bad in those areas, but it certainly isn't his strength. A person who hasn't seen them play would probably think Towns is more athletic and mobile since he has a really good max vert for a person his size and he will probably perform better than Okafor during the pre-draft workouts. Performing well there doesn't always translate to in game athletics/mobility though. Durant performed poorly during the pre-draft workouts and it's obvious that he's more athletic and more mobile than about 99.9% of people who are his height. In contrast, a person like Joe Alexander performed really well there but it's obvious that KD is more athletic and mobile than Joe. That's where watching the games comes in. Towns' moves on the offensive end are very mechanical and his moves aren't quick either. He's probably quicker than Okafor at moving his feet laterally on the defensive end, but that's about it. He'll probably end up being a better defensive player than Okafor as a result but Okafor will be better on offense.

I respect that....I just believe Towns isn't on Drummond or Jordan type level of athleticism, but it could play to his favor since he gets to use his tools (post game, jumpshot) and make his offensive game more multi dimensional than Jordan/Drummond.


I do think Town is impressive enough(not all world athleticism) but he does impressive things for a 7 footer, quick feet, 9"5 standing reach.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4bnBDBsM7g[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo48q4aciQ0[/youtube]