#Spacing - Steve Clifford Thread

[tondi123]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

Well thats absurd, if he really said that.

[yosemiteben]

I would think there has to be some additional context there. I mean I doubt he would say Mirotic hasn't played well this year, considering he almost single handedly carried them against us a week ago.

[BeesWax]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

Well thats absurd, if he really said that.

He did say it. I was listening and I think he meant the 18-19 year old guys but just did not clarify it very well. He was all about the numbers but nobody would ask him why he kept playing Al when the numbers said Biz was the better play. He also managed to squeeze in that Vonleh missed time at the beginning of the preseason too.

[tondi123]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

Well thats absurd, if he really said that.

He did say it. I was listening and I think he meant the 18-19 year old guys but just did not clarify it very well. He was all about the numbers but nobody would ask him why he kept playing Al when the numbers said Biz was the better play. He also managed to squeeze in that Vonleh missed time at the beginning of the preseason too.

I guess qualifying it by age makes more sense but there have been plenty of 19 year olds who performed at a pretty decent level over the years, including our own MKG. Even Biz was a contributor at that age and we have all been told Vonleh is far more advanced than Biz was at that age. But I guess since Vonleh missed training camp Cliff is sticking to his guns and considering him a lost cause til next season. I certainly hope he doesn't twist an ankle or something and miss a good chunk of next years training camp or I guess we'll have to count him out for next year as well.

[Hornet Mania]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

Well thats absurd, if he really said that.

Yep, that's super dumb. It's kind of a dodge anyway. The question really isn't whether Vonleh can play "well" anyway (although I still think he could in limited minutes), the question is whether Vonleh can play better than Maxiell. That bar is a heck of a lot lower imo.

[BeesWax]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

Well thats absurd, if he really said that.

Yep, that's super dumb. It's kind of a dodge anyway. The question really isn't whether Vonleh can play "well" anyway (although I still think he could in limited minutes), the question is whether Vonleh can play better than Maxiell. That bar is a heck of a lot lower imo.

I think between Maxiell and Vonleh it should be a matchup issue. When Maxiell is clearly outmatched athletically, like against OKC, then play the rookie when Noah is being taken advantage of by a savvy veteran then play Max. It should be easy to do but he just makes it seem so hard.

[DY_nasty]

Well thats absurd, if he really said that.

Yep, that's super dumb. It's kind of a dodge anyway. The question really isn't whether Vonleh can play "well" anyway (although I still think he could in limited minutes), the question is whether Vonleh can play better than Maxiell. That bar is a heck of a lot lower imo.

I think between Maxiell and Vonleh it should be a matchup issue. When Maxiell is clearly outmatched athletically, like against OKC, then play the rookie when Noah is being taken advantage of by a savvy veteran then play Max. It should be easy to do but he just makes it seem so hard.

He's going out of his way to not play Vonleh which is the issue. Even if you like Maxiel, and he does have his good games, there is absolutely no reason to play Max at Center while he's got 5 fouls down the stretch.

That is madness.

[BeesWax]

Yep, that's super dumb. It's kind of a dodge anyway. The question really isn't whether Vonleh can play "well" anyway (although I still think he could in limited minutes), the question is whether Vonleh can play better than Maxiell. That bar is a heck of a lot lower imo.

I think between Maxiell and Vonleh it should be a matchup issue. When Maxiell is clearly outmatched athletically, like against OKC, then play the rookie when Noah is being taken advantage of by a savvy veteran then play Max. It should be easy to do but he just makes it seem so hard.

He's going out of his way to not play Vonleh which is the issue. Even if you like Maxiel, and he does have his good games, there is absolutely no reason to play Max at Center while he's got 5 fouls down the stretch.

That is madness.

I agree he is doing it wrong. I was just pointing out what I thought he should be doing.

[ball teacher]

I would think there has to be some additional context there. I mean I doubt he would say Mirotic hasn't played well this year, considering he almost single handedly carried them against us a week ago.

There's no reason to try to decode what he means, for him to say this, shows how much emphasis is placed on analytics with this guy. Most 19-20 year olds dont produce so if your 19 I wont play you is the logic? Cmon man, that's why the league is so copy cattish and weak now cause there's lack of innovators and pure basketball minds. This guy has the reputation he has cause of the Van Gundy fraternity he came up under, you cant tell me a 2nd year coach is the top ten coach in the league when you were best season was a .500 win percentage in the eastern friggin conference..in a year when most teams were tanking at that! The guy is a mediocre coach at best.

[Al Kidd-Walker]

wade wasnt 18-19 when he was a rookie

[Eoghan]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

**** THIS DUDE.

[JDR720]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

so you basically have to be a generational talent to play good as a rookie #CliffLogic

[DY_nasty]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

so you basically have to be a generational talent to play good as a rookie #CliffLogic

Its even dumber because Courtney Lee was a key role player for the finals team that he was an assistant coach on

[Elden Payton]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

**** THIS DUDE.

Very well articulated BD.

I concur.

[Elden Payton]

Did you guys hear Cliff on the radio this morning????

on why noah isn't playing:

"outside of guys like lebron, wade or melo, there hasn't been a rookie who has played well in this league in the last 15 years"

dahell

so you basically have to be a generational talent to play good as a rookie #CliffLogic

Its even dumber because Courtney Lee was a key role player for the finals team that he was an assistant coach on

Maybe Courtney's missed layup traumatized him?

[Liver_Pooty]

Ugh. Comments like that are just infuriating. And flat out stupid and idiotic.

[JDR720]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Kroeger/status/583028442389716993[/tweet]

[DY_nasty]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Kroeger/status/583028442389716993[/tweet]

Some of the guys in GS liked Marc Jackson too...

I'm just saying, its cool that Kemba wants to take responsibility - it really is. I like the fact that he and nearly our entire team really, will look in the mirror and try to improve themselves first. That's rare. But at the same time we have a coach that hasn't made adjustments since November. Cliff needs to say its on him for once. Dude is always blaming someone after games...

[fatlever]

The way I see it, the blame for this season rests in 4 places (feel free to rank them as you see fit).

1. Bad Roster - lack of talent, players that don't fit, no shooting
This part is clearly on Cho and MJ (and Higgins). Our front office doesn't have a plan. Or they have a plan, but that plan changes every two years. You can chalk some of the lack of a plan up to the coaching turnstile. At some point, they have to decide what kind of team they want to have and build with a singular vision in mind. The roster is disjointed. It looks as if it was put together by randomly adding players.

2. Coaching - bad offense, confusion rotations, no adjustments
Obviously this part falls on Clifford and the coaching staff. There is no excuse for our offense, no matter how impressive our defense as at times. Clifford has a system on defense and the players execute that system, which is a good sign. But if people are going to praise Clifford for his defense, then they need to give him some blame about the offense.

3. Players - lacking effort, focus, energy, dumb mistakes, out of shape
How many times this year has Clifford blamed the players for lacking effort and focus in his post game comments? 10? 15? 20? Lance, Jefferson and Max all came into camp out of shape. They have to take responsibility for their conditioning. The only player who clearly improved his game over the summer due to hard work was MKG. Even Zeller was scolded during summer league for not taking it seriously.

4. Injuries
Its been a rough year for injuries, no doubt. Every team deals with them, but on our team they have hit just about every key player at different times. We have played our real starting lineup on 8 times this year (I think I heard/read that stat).


I am willing to give Cho and Clifford one more summer to figure things out, but if next year is as big of a disaster is this year, I want both gone, not just Clifford. Its time Cho answers for all his many blunders.

(side question, Its still unclear just how much impact MJ has on the roster. Sometimes I feel like its his meddling that keeps us from having a plan that stays in place for more than 2 years.)

[Diop]

The way I see it, the blame for this season rests in 4 places (feel free to rank them as you see fit).

1. Bad Roster - lack of talent, players that don't fit, no shooting
This part is clearly on Cho and MJ (and Higgins). Our front office doesn't have a plan. Or they have a plan, but that plan changes every two years. You can chalk some of the lack of a plan up to the coaching turnstile. At some point, they have to decide what kind of team they want to have and build with a singular vision in mind. The roster is disjointed. It looks as if it was put together by randomly adding players.

I think Cho did have a plan but he couldn't get the players he wanted in Hayward, Livingston, Patty Mills and Afflalo.
I can't remember who else, but he clearly wanted to improve shooting (I guess Livingston was to allow Neal to play more guarding 1's)

He couldn't get any of them and by the sounds of it, the decision to sign Lance was made by those above Cho. So the plan got thrown into a spin. I'm sure the Lance signing was giving into the pressure of fans expecting improvement.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it might be difficult to stick to a plan when you can't get the parts you want to complete it.

I'm not giving Cho a total pass though, the Marv signing was very short sighted. I think he just saw a veteran forward with a 3pt shot and thought he could fill the void of smart passing, stretch 4. Didn't really consider how bad the team would be defensively with him beside Al.

While I'm sure Roberts job would be to do nothing but bring the ball up, hand off to Lance and shoot the open 3. Still didn't make it a good signing as there was always going to be a chance that he would have to do more. Which he seems unable to.

Now I'm rambling. This team is giving me dementia.