Should Final Four be relocated from Indiana to protest recent anti-gay legislation?

[DarkAzcura]

Is this a joke? What do gay rights have to do with basketball? There are far more important issues in the world than gay rights, should we cancel every event because some people get offended? Gay people should have the same right as everyone else, not more. Its getting out of control the way the homosexual life style is being advertised and you're demonized if you don't agree with it. I personally don't care either way, but this is getting ridiculous.

What the hell is this junk? How ignorant can you be? The whole point of these "advertisements" is so homosexual people can have the same rights. Maybe you should actually do some research before you talk and talk and talk about how "annoying" all of this. Basic human rights? Who gives a crap either way, right?

[-Sammy-]

A business can refuse to serve people they 'disagree with'. They just can't do it based on things like creed, religion, race. They can refuse to serve someone because they think they're a jerk though.

For many, homosexuality is a lifestyle, which puts in firmly into the category of things with which one can disagree. That issue is still very blurry and obfuscated, despite what the 'company line' for PC thought wants people to think.

What does homosexuality is a lifestyle even mean? Seriously..

For people who think that, it means exactly what it says.

[Neutral 123]

Why the hell would I want to give him my money? Because she wants to pay him? I'd be angrier at her than him. If you feel you don't want me in your establishment or life I feel no need to butt in. If a grocery I went to everyday didn't like me and didn't want my business I'd drive 10-20 extra minutes every time I need milk to not give them my money.

What about an hour? 3 hours? What if you don't have a car? I'd all be for boycotting a place that was hostile, but they should not have the RIGHT to deny you service. Moreover, it legitimizes this type of outlook. It can, and will likely spread. Homosexuals have come this far in large part, because they have managed to shut down a lot of the homophobia that exists out there. That's why in less than 25 years, we've gone from the idea of gay marriage being laughable, to it being legal in a lot of places, and will be legal in the entire U.S soon enough.

If it isn't government run I feel they shouldn't butt in. I'm allowed to boycott a place for disagreeing with their ideals just like they should be allowed to not serve me for their ideals. At this point it's basically them throwing away money and if they feel strongly enough about gay marriage to lose money that's their right.

I'm not sure how this can be argued when we know the history of the U.S. So what if they don't want to hire you? Sell you a home in a certain area? What if they don't want to offer you a mortgage? A business loan? When you legitimize these attitudes and say they are ok, they tend to spread, and even if these areas remain illegal to discriminate, don't kid yourself into thinking that discrimination won't exist, and spread.

[DarkAzcura]

For many, homosexuality is a lifestyle, which puts in firmly into the category of things with which one can disagree. That issue is still very blurry and obfuscated, despite what the 'company line' for PC thought wants people to think.

What does homosexuality is a lifestyle even mean? Seriously..

For people who think that, it means exactly what it says.

Well it is not a lifestyle. It is not a choice. It is what it is, and you are who you are since birth. People who are ignorant to this should not be protected in anyway whatsoever. They need to be dragged into modern times because in this case, it is not a subjective thing. It's objective. This is basic human rights.

[Neutral 123]

For many, homosexuality is a lifestyle, which puts in firmly into the category of things with which one can disagree. That issue is still very blurry and obfuscated, despite what the 'company line' for PC thought wants people to think.

What does homosexuality is a lifestyle even mean? Seriously..

For people who think that, it means exactly what it says.

Lifestyle is a vague word. Is there not a more precise definition? I can't respond, because I'm not even clear on what that even means.

[ReaLiez]

Why not just strip Indiana of all associations with the United States and declare war on this separate state who are clearly jealous of our freedoms

[timglick01]

No

[Jim Naismith]

From http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2004-02-04-ncaa-indy-agreement_x.htm

Indy to host men's Final Four every five years through 2039

By Mark Alesia and Matthew Tully, The Indianapolis Star
INDIANAPOLIS — In a deal that could lead to a new or renovated stadium for Indianapolis, the NCAA announced Wednesday a guarantee that the city will host the men's Final Four an average of once every five years through 2039.

. . .

[KayDee35]

If it isn't government run I feel they shouldn't butt in. I'm allowed to boycott a place for disagreeing with their ideals just like they should be allowed to not serve me for their ideals. At this point it's basically them throwing away money and if they feel strongly enough about gay marriage to lose money that's their right.

So you think pre-Civil Rights era America was just fine and should have remained unaltered?

[E-Balla]

What about an hour? 3 hours? What if you don't have a car? I'd all be for boycotting a place that was hostile, but they should not have the RIGHT to deny you service. Moreover, it legitimizes this type of outlook. It can, and will likely spread. Homosexuals have come this far in large part, because they have managed to shut down a lot of the homophobia that exists out there. That's why in less than 25 years, we've gone from the idea of gay marriage being laughable, to it being legal in a lot of places, and will be legal in the entire U.S soon enough.

If it isn't government run I feel they shouldn't butt in. I'm allowed to boycott a place for disagreeing with their ideals just like they should be allowed to not serve me for their ideals. At this point it's basically them throwing away money and if they feel strongly enough about gay marriage to lose money that's their right.

I'm not sure how this can be argued when we know the history of the U.S. So what if they don't want to hire you? Sell you a home in a certain area? What if they don't want to offer you a mortgage? A business loan? When you legitimize these attitudes and say they are ok, they tend to spread, and even if these areas remain illegal to discriminate, don't kid yourself into thinking that discrimination won't exist, and spread.

Check my first post in this thread:

It's a law that would've been harmful 20 or so years ago but right now it does nothing but make a mockery of Indiana.

The Grammy's literally turned into a big gay wedding last year. Any business that uses this law to boot people or refuse service will get all the bad press in the world and lose a crap ton of business.

[E-Balla]

If it isn't government run I feel they shouldn't butt in. I'm allowed to boycott a place for disagreeing with their ideals just like they should be allowed to not serve me for their ideals. At this point it's basically them throwing away money and if they feel strongly enough about gay marriage to lose money that's their right.

So you think pre-Civil Rights era America was just fine and should have remained unaltered?

It's a law that would've been harmful 20 or so years ago but right now it does nothing but make a mockery of Indiana.

The fight isn't done but we've hit the point where I think a business denying service will have to deal with some issues from the public.

[Neutral 123]

If it isn't government run I feel they shouldn't butt in. I'm allowed to boycott a place for disagreeing with their ideals just like they should be allowed to not serve me for their ideals. At this point it's basically them throwing away money and if they feel strongly enough about gay marriage to lose money that's their right.

I'm not sure how this can be argued when we know the history of the U.S. So what if they don't want to hire you? Sell you a home in a certain area? What if they don't want to offer you a mortgage? A business loan? When you legitimize these attitudes and say they are ok, they tend to spread, and even if these areas remain illegal to discriminate, don't kid yourself into thinking that discrimination won't exist, and spread.

Check my first post in this thread:

It's a law that would've been harmful 20 or so years ago but right now it does nothing but make a mockery of Indiana.

The Grammy's literally turned into a big gay wedding last year. Any business that uses this law to boot people or refuse service will get all the bad press in the world and lose a crap ton of business.

It seems you've forgotten how we've got here, and falsely believe that it is impossible to go back to the way things were. What you offer is acceptance of going backwards. This is very dangerous thinking. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people tend to take a micro vs macro view on a lot of issues, a personal vs community view. Not to pick on you, because I think you are well intentioned here unlike some others, but to suggest for example, that you'd just drive an extra 10 minutes to go to another supermarket, completely ignores those, who may not have that option. We have to spend more time thinking beyond ourselves and personal situations.

[Joseph17]

Is this a joke? What do gay rights have to do with basketball? There are far more important issues in the world than gay rights, should we cancel every event because some people get offended? Gay people should have the same right as everyone else, not more. Its getting out of control the way the homosexual life style is being advertised and you're demonized if you don't agree with it. I personally don't care either way, but this is getting ridiculous.

They want the same right as everyone else. Imagine if he passed a bill saying that business owners are allowed to discriminate against minorities if they have religious obligations. They would definitely relocate the final four and they would probably do a lot more than that. It's not being advertised. If you see a gay couple in a commercial that should be equal to seeing minorities in a commercial. You just view it as the media shoving it in your face because you're not used to seeing it, but it's a lot more common than you think. You should be demonized if you don't agree with it and you should also be demonized if you're a racist. Homosexuality isn't a lifestyle btw.

[JDR720]

If it should be moved, it should be moved to avoid the protests that will surely be happening (quite a large distraction), not joining the protests.

[-Sammy-]

What does homosexuality is a lifestyle even mean? Seriously..

For people who think that, it means exactly what it says.

Well it is not a lifestyle. It is not a choice. It is what it is, and you are who you are since birth. People who are ignorant to this should not be protected in anyway whatsoever. They need to be dragged into modern times because in this case, it is not a subjective thing. It's objective. This is basic human rights.

That's my point. Not everyone believes that, and people have a right to not believe that. There's no consensus in hard/academic psychology as to the nature or origin of sexual orientation; it's a controversial topic in those fields, though that fact rarely 'trickles down' to public thought because of the sociopolitical nature of the issue.

[E-Balla]

I'm not sure how this can be argued when we know the history of the U.S. So what if they don't want to hire you? Sell you a home in a certain area? What if they don't want to offer you a mortgage? A business loan? When you legitimize these attitudes and say they are ok, they tend to spread, and even if these areas remain illegal to discriminate, don't kid yourself into thinking that discrimination won't exist, and spread.

Check my first post in this thread:

It's a law that would've been harmful 20 or so years ago but right now it does nothing but make a mockery of Indiana.

The Grammy's literally turned into a big gay wedding last year. Any business that uses this law to boot people or refuse service will get all the bad press in the world and lose a crap ton of business.

It seems you've forgotten how we've got here, and falsely believe that it is impossible to go back to the way things were. What you offer is acceptance of going backwards. This is very dangerous thinking. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people tend to take a micro vs macro view on a lot of issues, a personal vs community view. Not to pick on you, because I think you are well intentioned here unlike some others, but to suggest for example, that you'd just drive an extra 10 minutes to go to another supermarket, completely ignores those, who may not have that option. We have to spend more time thinking beyond ourselves and personal situations.

I get that and I understand everyone won't have options but I feel like the business owners should have some say over who they want to do business with. My biggest issue with the law is actually that it hides behind religion. And what makes this law so different from the other 15 or so states with the same law? I think there's something wrong with the law but what exactly made this one different from the others? Maybe I'd feel more strongly one way or the other if I actually read up about it and didn't just hear some of my family talking about it .

[-Sammy-]

What does homosexuality is a lifestyle even mean? Seriously..

For people who think that, it means exactly what it says.

Lifestyle is a vague word. Is there not a more precise definition? I can't respond, because I'm not even clear on what that even means.

Sorry; when I use 'lifestyle', I mean it in the sense of choice. Some people view homosexuality as a chosen lifestyle; that's what I meant.

[cl2117]

This actually speaks to the intended point of the law. The government can't force you, the consumer, to buy goods or services from a business with whom you disagree; the business should have the same right of refusal.

A business can refuse to serve people they 'disagree with'. They just can't do it based on things like creed, religion, race. They can refuse to serve someone because they think they're a jerk though.

For many, homosexuality is a lifestyle, which puts in firmly into the category of things with which one can disagree. That issue is still very blurry and obfuscated, despite what the 'company line' for PC thought wants people to think.

The problem is that it's not a lifestyle. It's not a choice, it's who people are.

It's just like your race, you can't change it, which is why it should be unacceptable to discriminate against people because of it. Even if your religion (which is a choice) says it's wrong.

[Pointgod]

Oh I can't wait for the days that heterosexuals and christians are discriminated against simply based on their religion and sexual orientation. Imagine the heads that would explode if that happened.

[E-Balla]

For people who think that, it means exactly what it says.

Well it is not a lifestyle. It is not a choice. It is what it is, and you are who you are since birth. People who are ignorant to this should not be protected in anyway whatsoever. They need to be dragged into modern times because in this case, it is not a subjective thing. It's objective. This is basic human rights.

That's my point. Not everyone believes that, and people have a right to not believe that. There's no consensus in hard/academic psychology as to the nature or origin of sexual orientation; it's a controversial topic in those fields, though that fact rarely 'trickles down' to public thought because of the sociopolitical nature of the issue.

Basically anything someone can't look at and notice immediately is what technically encompasses "a lifestyle" unless I'm mistaken.