Game 73: Portland TrailBlazers (45-25) @ Phoenix Suns (38-34)

[RunDogGun]

Goodwin's arrest was obviously not a good thing. However it was entirely different than Tucker and the Morris brothers' problems. He was arrested for disorderly conduct outside a skating rink for what seemed like ridiculous circumstances. Although I obviously do not know what happened so I have no idea. I do know for a fact that Tucker was arrested for super extreme dui and missed the team bus TWICE this year. The Morris brothers were being investigated for assault and if you believe what people say on the internet (I do not) it apparently was a pretty bad beat down they put on someone. Then take into account that Markieff is second in the league in technical fouls with 14 and Marcus is eighth in the league with 9 technical fouls. These guys are trouble makers.

I also do not know how anyone can consider Suns fans spoiled. Or really any Arizona sports fans. The state has only one major sports championship. Just the 2001 Diamondbacks team. The Suns have only been to the finals twice in nearly 50 years. I could care less about being a Golden State fan. The Suns still are 15th in attendance this season.

Markieff badmouthed the fans very strongly during a long rant after arguably the worst game a Suns team ever played. This is what Steve Nash had to say about the fans in his retirement letter: "The arena was always sold out and rocking. It was the time of my life. Thanks, Phoenix." If that is not a perfect example as to the sheer difference between a player you want to root for and a player you could care less about like Markieff, then I do not know what is.

What Markieff said was true. There was more cheering for the Spurs than the Suns. And that happens often at US Airways. So far no charges have been assessed to either Morris. Does Westbrook lead the league in techs? I guess he sucks, and is a trouble maker, that OKC fans should burn at the stake whenever possible. Cousins had a bunch of techs last season, man we better not get him.

Next, yes winning and making the playoffs often, which the Suns are one of the most winningest franchises, has made fans spoiled and expecting. Lately, it has gone nuts, with either we have the best team, or we should be purposely losing. It's even gone so far that fans were bitching out Dudley for actually trying. He seemed glad to leave the Suns.

For then last time, the saying is "I couldn't care less", not "I could care less", saying it wrong and repeatedly looks bad.

Next, you should care about GS fans, and how they love their team, if you desire a team like GS, who is the best in the West right now. Fans can be the sixth man. Our fans choose not to be.

[RunDogGun]

I think (hope) we are trading the twins. The only question is, what to do with Bledsoe and/or Knight. Do the coaches think Knight or Archie can develop into a true point guard? I'm on the fence with Bledsoe. He is so inconsistent but at times it really does seem like he wants to win.

I say we go all in with Bledsoe or Knight and use the other in a trade to get a good PF. Go forward with one PG, Len, TJ, Wright, Archie and the new PF as the core. PJ is a good bench guy and maybe Gerald as a cheerleader/occasional offensive spark if he's very cheap.

Bring in some hard nosed assistants that can push these guys to the limit. Why is it every NBA team seems to have these big scary assistants and we have the shortest guy employed with the NBA (including floor wipers)? We need a bad cop to Horny's good cop. We also need more coherence in an offensive system, or somebody that can make the players run the system that's in place.

OK, 1st, I've got to say this, but Portland, with that win, is guaranteed a playoff spot. Anyone happen to notice how many games they've won? Yep--48, just like us last year. So 7-8 games away from the season's end, and 48 wins has already clinched; last year, 48 wins got us diddlysquat and left us a game out. Ugh.

OK, so back to you JTrain. I've been very supportive of the Morri, but at this point, I almost agree. It's not that they are bad players; to me it seems the chemistry on the team is just off, and let's face it, the Morri are the most influential players on the team, IMO. I think the Morri to Philly would be a good fit.

And then with Knight/Bledsoe? I don't know. I DO know that I don't want to lose Knight for zero return, so I think they will match just about any offer given. The problem is, is that he's looked like a shell of his former self on the Bucks; simply put, he's been a bad player overall. So how much do you spend on a guy like that?

And Bledsoe? Yeah, next year and the following years after that will make Bledsoe's contract look like a pittance, but I that doesn't mean he's playing to the level of a $14Mish player--he's just too inconsistent, so who's going to take on another 4 years of that?

But I do think the team needs a shake-up, so the best option probably is to trade the Morri, keep Knight and Bled; I'd play Bledsoe at the 2 to limit both turnovers, and because he can guard about any 2 that an opposing team would throw out there. He's not perfect, in fact far from it, but D is his most attractive part of his game. Plus, I think he's a good enough of a shooter to play the 2.

Today, this is what I'd like to see our depth to look like on day one of next season--basically letting Green, Price, and Thornton, walk, and trade the Morri for a PF or C

Knight/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Tucker/Bogdanovic(??)
Warren/Granger/Bullock
Wright/FA, Trade, or Rook/Alec Brown
Len/FA, Trade or Rook/Barron

I'd try to wrangle Bogdanovic away from the Euro league, so he can establish some sense of chemistry with the team. And bring in Alec Brown--I mean, if they are going to give meaningful minutes to Price every night, then Brown should easily win some game time But assuming we can bring them both in, that leaves us 3 slots; otherwise, it's 5 slots to fill. We'll bring in 2 draft picks, then, trade the Morri for a solid starting PF or C. Then worst case scenario, we have our minimum 13.

Thoughts?

I don't think Bog can come over next season. I think he doesn't have an NBA out until 2016 season. I'm pretty sure Brown will be on the team next season. It seemed to me that they had to commit to signing him for him to play for the Jam this season. I still don't know how that works.

[NavLDO]

Goodwin's arrest was obviously not a good thing. However it was entirely different than Tucker and the Morris brothers' problems. He was arrested for disorderly conduct outside a skating rink for what seemed like ridiculous circumstances. Although I obviously do not know what happened so I have no idea. I do know for a fact that Tucker was arrested for super extreme dui and missed the team bus TWICE this year. The Morris brothers were being investigated for assault and if you believe what people say on the internet (I do not) it apparently was a pretty bad beat down they put on someone. Then take into account that Markieff is second in the league in technical fouls with 14 and Marcus is eighth in the league with 9 technical fouls. These guys are trouble makers.

I also do not know how anyone can consider Suns fans spoiled. Or really any Arizona sports fans. The state has only one major sports championship. Just the 2001 Diamondbacks team. The Suns have only been to the finals twice in nearly 50 years. I could care less about being a Golden State fan. The Suns still are 15th in attendance this season.

Markieff badmouthed the fans very strongly during a long rant after arguably the worst game a Suns team ever played. This is what Steve Nash had to say about the fans in his retirement letter: "The arena was always sold out and rocking. It was the time of my life. Thanks, Phoenix." If that is not a perfect example as to the sheer difference between a player you want to root for and a player you could care less about like Markieff, then I do not know what is.

What Markieff said was true. There was more cheering for the Spurs than the Suns. And that happens often at US Airways. So far no charges have been assessed to either Morris. Does Westbrook lead the league in techs? I guess he sucks, and is a trouble maker, that OKC fans should burn at the stake whenever possible. Cousins had a bunch of techs last season, man we better not get him.

Next, yes winning and making the playoffs often, which the Suns are one of the most winningest franchises, has made fans spoiled and expecting. Lately, it has gone nuts, with either we have the best team, or we should be purposely losing. It's even gone so far that fans were bitching out Dudley for actually trying. He seemed glad to leave the Suns.

For then last time, the saying is "I couldn't care less", not "I could care less", saying it wrong and repeatedly looks bad.

Next, you should care about GS fans, and how they love their team, if you desire a team like GS, who is the best in the West right now. Fans can be the sixth man. Our fans choose not to be.

I'm giving you a +1 for your take on technical--I agree, some players are just more vocal than others; has nothing to do with ability, though, so Kieff is not in the same league as Westbrook or Cousins, but at the same time, it doesn't make them a bad player, either,

I do think, however, as I posted earlier, that we need a 'culture' change, and the Morri are going to be the easiest to trade, because they are bargains at their $8M and $5M contracts. Bledsoe? Not so much, I mean really, which would you choose, Bledsoe for $14M per, or the Morri for $13M per--to me, that's a no brainer. Bledsoe is probably the better overall player of the 3, but the production you get out of the Morri, collectively, is a bargain for $1M less that what Bledsoe is being paid.

That said, if we could get better return for Bledsoe, while keeping Knight (which is a risky proposition considering his recent performances), while keeping the Morri, I'd be fine with that option, as well.

[letsgosuns]

Goodwin's arrest was obviously not a good thing. However it was entirely different than Tucker and the Morris brothers' problems. He was arrested for disorderly conduct outside a skating rink for what seemed like ridiculous circumstances. Although I obviously do not know what happened so I have no idea. I do know for a fact that Tucker was arrested for super extreme dui and missed the team bus TWICE this year. The Morris brothers were being investigated for assault and if you believe what people say on the internet (I do not) it apparently was a pretty bad beat down they put on someone. Then take into account that Markieff is second in the league in technical fouls with 14 and Marcus is eighth in the league with 9 technical fouls. These guys are trouble makers.

I also do not know how anyone can consider Suns fans spoiled. Or really any Arizona sports fans. The state has only one major sports championship. Just the 2001 Diamondbacks team. The Suns have only been to the finals twice in nearly 50 years. I could care less about being a Golden State fan. The Suns still are 15th in attendance this season.

Markieff badmouthed the fans very strongly during a long rant after arguably the worst game a Suns team ever played. This is what Steve Nash had to say about the fans in his retirement letter: "The arena was always sold out and rocking. It was the time of my life. Thanks, Phoenix." If that is not a perfect example as to the sheer difference between a player you want to root for and a player you could care less about like Markieff, then I do not know what is.

What Markieff said was true. There was more cheering for the Spurs than the Suns. And that happens often at US Airways. So far no charges have been assessed to either Morris. Does Westbrook lead the league in techs? I guess he sucks, and is a trouble maker, that OKC fans should burn at the stake whenever possible. Cousins had a bunch of techs last season, man we better not get him.

Next, yes winning and making the playoffs often, which the Suns are one of the most winningest franchises, has made fans spoiled and expecting. Lately, it has gone nuts, with either we have the best team, or we should be purposely losing. It's even gone so far that fans were bitching out Dudley for actually trying. He seemed glad to leave the Suns.

For then last time, the saying is "I couldn't care less", not "I could care less", saying it wrong and repeatedly looks bad.

Next, you should care about GS fans, and how they love their team, if you desire a team like GS, who is the best in the West right now. Fans can be the sixth man. Our fans choose not to be.

You and I fundamentally disagree about these things. I think it was wrong for Markieff to insult the fan base (especially after that game), you think it was justified. You think Markieff and Marcus deserve the same leeway that Westbrook and/or Cousins get with technical fouls, I do not. When one of the Morris brothers is up for MVP or gets invited to play on Team USA, then maybe I will consider putting up with their garbage. Otherwise, they are glorified bench players who are morons. Btw, I think Westbrook is a hothead and hurts his team with his technical fouls. So does Cousins. And I would never want Cousins on the Suns because I do not believe he is a winner. He is psychotic. And not the Dennis Rodman kind of psychotic where you can put up with it because he is a major piece to a championship team but is just crazy. Cousins is the kind of nuts where he is an immature baby that whines about every single call and freaks out over nothing.

This is not about winning and making the playoffs often. Fans are angry because this team has made many baffling personnel decisions in the past few years. The biggest being not re-signing Amare and spending the money on two scrubs like Warrick and Childress and trading Barbosa for Turkoglu. I was okay with letting Amare go at the time because of his health concerns (his contract crippled the Knicks franchise) but the moves the Suns made after he left were atrocious. Steve Nash also complained that the Suns chose not to go after Diaw when he was available for a stretch playoff run. Blanks and Babby together ruined Nash's last two years here and then Blanks put together the worst roster in Suns history in 2012-2013. Build a team around Michael Beasley? Oh yeah, let us not forget that he fired Gentry, and then stabbed the assistants in the back including Dan Majerle to hire Lindsey Hunter. Total snake move.

Last year the Suns were supposed to be terrible and tank. Fans were understanding of it. Out of nowhere the Suns have a surprising year, win 48 games, and just miss the playoffs. Okay. Things are on the upswing. You come into the offseason looking to improve, go after the best free agents, and strike out. Nothing to be ashamed of. However, you lose out on the best player in the world only to sign another point guard as your fallback who is a score first guard when you already have Dragic and Bledsoe and drafted Ennis? What? Okay, we all know how that worked out.

The year starts off bad because Dragic looks much different. He is not playing like last year. I still believe it was because he wore himself out playing during the Summer. Regardless, the Suns play very inconsistently for a long time. The team eventually starts having such a bad technical foul problem that Hornacek implements a rule that you are benched the rest of the game if you get one. I have never seen a coach have to discipline players like that. Marcus Morris has a meltdown during a game and berates the coach on national tv. Tucker misses the bus twice this year. Miles Plumlee asks for a trade per Marc Stein. Dragic publicly destroys the franchise on a long rant. Isaiah Thomas says after the game against the Raptors in Toronto this is not what the front office said was going to happen when he signed here. A plethora of off the court problems. I did not even mention them all. Couple that with so many bad losses and this year has been filled with negativity. A bad vibe. A team that fans have a difficult time connecting with.

So where are the bright spots? Not many, but there are some. Len has made a dramatic improvement. Warren looks like he can be a go to scorer. Goodwin has had many flashes and if he can improve his jump shot the sky is the limit for him. Brandon Wright looks like a great backup center. Brandon Knight might become a nice player for this organization. Other than that, what else has been exciting? The Morris brothers inconsistent play? Bledsoe's inconsistency? The games where the Suns can follow up wins against the Rockets and Mavs and then lose the Kings? There are losing seasons where your team can still make strides in the right direction ala the Suns 2003-2004 season and then there are lost seasons. This is more of a lost season filled with turmoil, roster turnover, and fans getting more and more frustrated with this team. I see two very different roads this team can take. The road where you build around Bledsoe and the Morris brothers and the road where you dump those guys and build around the young players. You already know which road I would choose. Btw, what is with your infatuation with the Warriors fans. Phoenix is a laid back city. San Francisco/Oakland is an entirely different world. Of course those fans will be much different than fans in Phoenix. I am not going to wish to be like the Warriors just because they are having one fairy tale season right now. I do not care whether they win or lose. I want the Suns to become a better team having nothing to do with the Warriors.

[thamadkant]

Hornacek needs some flack with how the team performed this season. Although a big chunk of his players are likely to be stubborn, but discipline is part of a coach's job. Hire a hard-ass if you need someone to step-up vocally during practice if needs be.

Suns doesnt have an IDENTITY.
Hornacek wants to push the tempo, McD wants a dual PG setup... this vision makes sense, they match up. I'm not against it as long as the two PGs on the court are defensive liabilities.

However, having non-star Isolation players contradict the high-tempo dual PG setup. Not just on the Suns, but in many teams too. Its like having John Stockton or Rajon Rondo play with Kobe Bryant who likes to dribble and isolate himself.
Kevin Durant and Westbrook works, because everyone else on the team are rebounders, catch/shoot guys or finishers. But the Suns have 4-5 players who love the ball in their hands for several seconds during a possession trying to get their shots up.

Players creating for others is rare for the Suns... the PGs arent immune to this problem, but I've seen enough games where they showed the right intention (drive and kick-back to open shooters) but its the recipients of the ball that ruin the flow of the offense.

Sometimes, actually happens almost every game, to be specific, Bledsoe gets an opportunity to give the ball to Len who has his man pinned down 3-4 feet away from the ring. Only to be ignored. This is annoying... As Len will never improve his post moves if he doesnt get those plays setup for him.
Instead we see the ball dumped to Markieff or Marcus 12-15 feet away, for them to take jump shots. Len 3/4 feet away >> Markieff/Marcus's mid range jump shots.
People will say those midrange are "money"... money if those shots where your 3rd or 4th options. But if its your 1st option during an offensive possession... then the defense wins.
Someone may bring up Kobe or Jordan or Melo or Durant... but these guys are the VERY best in the world in nailing those mid-range shots, plus they only take those shots if it they judge it as the best shot. Kobe maybe too much of trigger happy shooter though... but you get the point.

One of the "positives" with the Suns having the team they have is that the offensive contribution is spread-out. But its how they get their points is the issue... isolation plays.

[RunDogGun]

It's funny to me to see many get so excited about Goodwin, yet hate Bledsoe. They are very similar in many ways.

As for the season, even though we lost many games, we were in very many. It wasn't like we got blown out in every loss. I think there were strides made. Some guys regressed, some bitched their way off the team. Although Markieff was inconsistent in his very first starting role, he did very well. I think many of our guys got techs because of lack of calls after obvious contact. I didn't like losing the points from the techs, but understand the frustration,because the officiating was horrible again this season. The league still caters to the star players. For example, Morris getting a flagrant two when his arm was clearly bumped with Goran's off arm, and that is what caused it to hit Goran's head, But Harden only gets a flagrant 1 for kicking LeBron in the nuts,on purpose. Westbrook should have received a flagrant 1 the other night against us. He hit and pushed Morris while he was in the air,and from behind. EJ even said, he couldn't believe it was just called a regular foul. That easily could have been the game, and all because of stupidity of Westbrook.

PHX isn't laidback, f*ck, the state is so conservative, that I and a few other fans on this board had been told to be quiet during games and/or sit down. Next, PHX has a ton of transplants and/or people from the East that couldn't handle the cold, but they aren't Suns fans, they are fans of other teams. PHX also has many people that couldn't afford to live in Cali anymore, and were Laker fans.

I would love to ask players from other teams if they like playing in PHX, because the fans don't make it a tough place to play.

As for agreeing or disagreeing Letsgo, some of the stuff you claim I feel or think, I never said directly. It was just your interpretation of what I said. I don't like Morris techs, but again, I understand why our team got/gets them. But I don't get why guys like Westbrook and Cousins gets them so much, when they already get superstar calls and treatment. Our team does not get those calls, and when they happen right in front of the refs, I could see one of our players getting mad, and saying something.

[Frank Lee]

Give it a rest RefDog.... you still whining about MoBro clobbering Dragic ? sheesh. Your steadfast defense of this team is admirable, but its a sinking ship that still has a few rats on it. Even in your purple PJs you must at least see that as a distinct possibility.

I think the MoBros are long gone. I think Knight was acquired because Bledsoe/RPaul have a deal set, and it was likely agreed upon during his begrudgingly disgruntling resign last yr. Tucker is fodder as he is no leader. Green just got lost in this continuos line up shuffle.

This year was a Sh**show from just about the beginning and came to a head at the trade deadline. Bledsoe is NOT a PG, neither MoBro is a PF. Tucker is one dimensional, as is Green. We really do not have a true SG. The BBIQ on the court often looks like highschoolers. There is little to no discipline. No sense in any rotations. We've had multiple off court problems, and a few glaring on court ones. Even our #1 FA pick up gets shoved on, as well as our #1 player. Our FO displays the arrogance once reserved for Sarver. 3-4 yrs of PR repairs down the tubes. the fan support at an all-time low.... No Game Thread ???? in the 7-8 yrs here... I don't remember that EVER happening.

These are hardly ref problems. This squad looks to be built by amateurs. Even the talking heads are puzzled by wtf went down here.
Now is the time to kick this can down the road, sans the NoBros, Bledsoe, and Tucker. Roll out a young team and hope you catch a few would be stars...if not, catch a top lotto. Anything would be more appealing than to watch this same core next yr.

[RunDogGun]

Wtf Frank, are you joining the misreaders club? I wasn't whining, but simply stating. Anyone with any grasp on physics can watch the replay and understand how it happened.

But honestly I really don't care to fight with you today, for I just lost my nephew to cancer this afternoon. Enjoy your hate for this team, I'm too tired.

[sunskerr]

Frank has gone senile. Lots of people here have gone the same way.

[Kyler Murray]

Sorry to hear that RDG, my condolences. And to the people that always whine and cry about our team, well you should stop watching till we're "fun" for you again.