Michael Jordan's three point shooting

[yoyoboy]

If Jordan grew up in the 3 point era, he would probably shoot it like Curry.

[Domejandro]

If Jordan grew up in the 3 point era, he would probably shoot it like Curry.

Oh come on, you cannot actually believe that can you? Stephen Curry is the best shooter ever from beyond the arc.

People can speculate on whether he would be better if he grew up with the the point line, but that does not change the fact that he was legitimately not a major threat outside the three point line. Though percentages hate Kobe, he (being Bryant) was a far superior three point shooter than Michael Jordan. I cannot understand why it is difficult for people to point out the flaws that Michael Jordan actually did have.

As for the question, he is vastly overrated in the sense that people deny that it was a facet of his game that was not developed. Thirty-two percent on two shots a game is pretty brutal, and should be an indictment to his ability to score in other ways as much as his inability to shoot from downtown. Turning a blind eye to it is silly in my opinion.

I sound obnoxious, but he was definitely not a three point sniper.

[Quotatious]

Based on the eye test, It doesn't seem to me like he was a Kobe-level three point shooter. I may be wrong, but I think shot selection is one of the biggest things that sets Kobe & MJ apart, and Kobe has routinely taken very difficult threes. Pull ups...triple threat 3s with someone right in his face, fadeaway threes...whereas from what I've seen of MJ he took more quality threes within the flow of the offense. Kobe isn't an impressive 3pt shooter overall for his career, but I think if he had taken high quality looks and cut out the terrible ones (which made him unstoppable when they were going in, but otherwise they weren't good looks) his percentages would look much better. His percentages are a reflection of his often difficult shot selection, not his raw three point shooting ability.

Good point about shot selection, but I was referring to percentages more than similarities in terms of their approach to 3-point shooting. Kobe is generally a streaky shooter, and oddly enough, I've often felt like he shoots better (not only from beyond the arc, but also from midrange area) when he attempted what would be considered a very low percentage shot, for almost anybody else, and often missed easy shots (especially when he shot it too flat - he even admits that he shoots much better with a higher arc).

So, Kobe taking some relatively bad shots, ironically may've improved his overall percentages (by "bad shots" I don't mean just degree of difficulty, being well-contested, but also timing of his shots - like his famous heat-check threes).

Kobe is what he is - a very streaky shooter who's pretty much unstoppable when he gets it going, no matter what kind of defense you design to slow him down, he'll beat you, but he can also get very cold with his jumper, at times (but to his credit, he's usually smart enough to attack the basket and get to the foul line, when he gets really cold with his J, so his scoring efficiency was always well above average, in his prime).

[WVSArtist]

The fact that Jordan mastered the mid ranger jumper tells me that he could have did the same with 3's if he wanted/needed to, but he didn't because his teams had enough talent around him to kick it out to for that.

[Rerisen]

Based on the eye test, It doesn't seem to me like he was a Kobe-level three point shooter. I may be wrong, but I think shot selection is one of the biggest things that sets Kobe & MJ apart, and Kobe has routinely taken very difficult threes. Pull ups...triple threat 3s with someone right in his face, fadeaway threes...whereas from what I've seen of MJ he took more quality threes within the flow of the offense. Kobe isn't an impressive 3pt shooter overall for his career, but I think if he had taken high quality looks and cut out the terrible ones (which made him unstoppable when they were going in, but otherwise they weren't good looks) his percentages would look much better. His percentages are a reflection of his often difficult shot selection, not his raw three point shooting ability.

MJ took better 3s when he got to choose the threes. But because his attempts were so low, the bailouts threes he took just to save possessions also hurt his percentage a lot more. Which is I think what the OP was alluding to noting how much better Jordan shot when his attempts went up.

[Shot Clock]

Something I wrote a while back

What if I told you he has drained more playoff 3's then Bird did? Well sure you'd say Jordan played longer and the 3 point line was moved in for 3 years. So I take those 3 years out and he's drained 99 3PA's in 10 years. Bird had 80 in 12 years. 164 playoff games for Bird and 132 for MJ. Ah well of course Jordan was a lower pct shooter right? No, Jordan shot .345 from 3 (2.2 3PA), Bird shot .321. WTF? And yes this is removing the 3 years the line was moved in.

People take a look at Jordan stats and get influenced by his regular season stats where he just didn't shoot the 3 much. This was for two reasons, during the eighties you were pretty much a specialist to be green lighted for a 3. The 3 wasn't considered a first option like it is today. Second, Jordan felt he was more beneficial to his team by drawing attention and fouls so he didn't use it much. He rarely shot over 2 3PA's per game during the regular season. When the line was moved in he used it more but otherwise left it to the Kerr's, PAxson's and Hodge's. In the two years he averaged more then 2 3PA's per game when the line wasn't moved in he shot .364 from 3 point land. During the postseason he averaged over 2 careerwise.

Why focus on the postseason? Because that's when you really see what someone can do. That's when Jordan went to his full bag of tricks to beat teams. When he faced Portland in the Finals, they compared him to Drexler and said Drexler was a better 3 point shooter, so Jordan went out the first game and put on a 3 point show (6 in the first half). (.429 3P%, 4.7 3PA/G)

He rarely took the three often and because of that many seasons saw low percentages because they were often bailouts. Anytime he shot the three often, he shot it fairly well.

[og15]

If Jordan grew up in the 3 point era, he would probably shoot it like Curry.

You're likely trolling, but Jordan grew up in the "FT era" (making that up btw, every era has FT's obviously) and is a career 83.5% FT shooter with a high of 85.7%. If he was a special shooter like Curry, I would also expect FT shooting in the 90% range. Before someone says "oh attempts", Durant shot 90.5% FT on 9.3 FTA/G two seasons ago and is a career 88.1% FT shooter on 8.3 FTA/G. Jordan was not on the level of shooting ability that Curry is.

His percentages would be better if he's taking a higher percentage of his three's as regular shots, which obviously means a lower percentage are bailout or only when needed type three's. I don't doubt he would have been a high 30's 3PT% guy who also shot in the mid-40's from the corner 3PT shot.

3PT shooting is actually when he should have been doing when he was on Washington, especially from the corners, but he was used a lot as a shot creator, so that can be harder if you're not a guy doing pull up 3PT shots.

[nicnac215]

If Jordan grew up in the 3 point era, he would probably shoot it like Curry.

You're likely trolling, but Jordan grew up in the "FT era" (making that up btw, every era has FT's obviously) and is a career 83.5% FT shooter with a high of 85.7%. If he was a special shooter like Curry, I would also expect FT shooting in the 90% range. Before someone says "oh attempts", Durant shot 90.5% FT on 9.3 FTA/G two seasons ago and is a career 88.1% FT shooter on 8.3 FTA/G. Jordan was not on the level of shooting ability that Curry is.

His percentages would be better if he's taking a higher percentage of his three's as regular shots, which obviously means a lower percentage are bailout or only when needed type three's. I don't doubt he would have been a high 30's 3PT% guy who also shot in the mid-40's from the corner 3PT shot.

3PT shooting is actually when he should have been doing when he was on Washington, especially from the corners, but he was used a lot as a shot creator, so that can be harder if you're not a guy doing pull up 3PT shots.

Jordan is the king of the midrange jumper. He grew up in the 70s where there was no 3pt line. Jordan has the highest fg% and highest volume of all scorers in nba history in mid range area of the court. He is to the midrange shot what curry is to the 3pt shot. If Jordan grew up in today's advanced stats game, he would have focused on the 3 more and less on midrange. Nearly impossible to dispute that he is the GOAT midrange shooter.

[Neutral 123]

What's incredible to me is how the 3 point shot is such a HUGE part of the game now. When you look at the all time lists, guys who you thought of as great 3 point shooters have already been surpassed by a lot of so so players on the all time list.

[Shot Clock]

What's incredible to me is how the 3 point shot is such a HUGE part of the game now. When you look at the all time lists, guys who you thought of as great 3 point shooters have already been surpassed by a lot of so so players on the all time list.

Not really sure it's a surprise. The league implemented rules to drive this behavior.

2009 Interview with the man behind the Rule changes, Stu Jackson

NBA.com: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

SJ: No. The scoring increase was not our goal. Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.

NBA.com: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

SJ: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim. Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate.

[Dipper 13]

He did shoot 37.6% in 1990, after working on it during training camp.


8:48 mark

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-3wzlZw6K8[/youtube]

[MrKnox]

Underrated or properly rated?

Career 32.7% 3-point shooter on less than 2 attempts per game....NOT EASY to do.

Career 33.2% 3-point shooter in the playoffs.

Career 36.8% 3-point shooter in the NBA Finals (35 games)

Jordan was the Chicago leader in 3-point FG's made during their first 3-peat....he shot over 38% FG from 3 in 3 consecutive playoff seasons.

From 1985-1993....Jordan had 132 games where he took at least 3 attempts from the 3-point line in a game....he was a combined 36.9% FG shooter in those 132 games.

Jordan had 2 seasons from the regular 3-point line where he took around 3 attempts per game on average...he was 35.2% and 37.6% during those 2 seasons.

From the 22-foot 3-point line...he shot 42.7% and 37.4% past his prime. He shot a little over 3 attempts per game during those years as well.

Jordan in his first 3 NBA Finals from the NORMAL line:

24/57 = 42.1% FG from 3. Much better than lots of players including Kobe and Lebron in their Finals.

This doesn't make any sense. 32.7% isn't good from 3 and the fact that he took such a small number, makes it less impressive, not more impressive.

My point was that it's hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you're taking less than 2 threes a game. It's also a numbers game. For example, if you take two free throws and miss one you're shooting 50%. If you take five free throws and miss two you're at 60%. If you take ten free throws and miss three you're at 70%. You can miss more when you shoot more and still have a better percentage. His percentages would have been significantly higher had he taken many more threes per game. I know this because when he attempted more than 2 or 3 his numbers went up. Also, his % was hurt by tons of bail out threes he took at the end of quarters or games that you rarely see players take anymore for fear of watering down their %'s. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a half/full court buzzer beater? Rarely anymore.

[yoyoboy]

Underrated or properly rated?

Career 32.7% 3-point shooter on less than 2 attempts per game....NOT EASY to do.

Career 33.2% 3-point shooter in the playoffs.

Career 36.8% 3-point shooter in the NBA Finals (35 games)

Jordan was the Chicago leader in 3-point FG's made during their first 3-peat....he shot over 38% FG from 3 in 3 consecutive playoff seasons.

From 1985-1993....Jordan had 132 games where he took at least 3 attempts from the 3-point line in a game....he was a combined 36.9% FG shooter in those 132 games.

Jordan had 2 seasons from the regular 3-point line where he took around 3 attempts per game on average...he was 35.2% and 37.6% during those 2 seasons.

From the 22-foot 3-point line...he shot 42.7% and 37.4% past his prime. He shot a little over 3 attempts per game during those years as well.

Jordan in his first 3 NBA Finals from the NORMAL line:

24/57 = 42.1% FG from 3. Much better than lots of players including Kobe and Lebron in their Finals.

This doesn't make any sense. 32.7% isn't good from 3 and the fact that he took such a small number, makes it less impressive, not more impressive.

My point was that it's hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you're taking less than 2 threes a game. It's also a numbers game. For example, if you take two free throws and miss one you're shooting 50%. If you take five free throws and miss two you're at 60%. If you take ten free throws and miss three you're at 70%. You can miss more when you shoot more and still have a better percentage. His percentages would have been significantly higher had he taken many more threes per game. I know this because when he attempted more than 2 or 3 his numbers went up. Also, his % was hurt by tons of bail out threes he took at the end of quarters or games that you rarely see players take anymore for fear of watering down their %'s. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a half/full court buzzer beater? Rarely anymore.

Even Matthew Dellavedova shoots 39% for his career on around 2.3 3PA per game. I'm sorry but it's definitely easier to shoot better on less attempts because you're effectively picking and choosing what 3s you take by attempting less (which are likely to be more wide open ones). And 32-33% is bad from 3 no matter the context.

[dautjazz]

This doesn't make any sense. 32.7% isn't good from 3 and the fact that he took such a small number, makes it less impressive, not more impressive.

My point was that it's hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you're taking less than 2 threes a game. It's also a numbers game. For example, if you take two free throws and miss one you're shooting 50%. If you take five free throws and miss two you're at 60%. If you take ten free throws and miss three you're at 70%. You can miss more when you shoot more and still have a better percentage. His percentages would have been significantly higher had he taken many more threes per game. I know this because when he attempted more than 2 or 3 his numbers went up. Also, his % was hurt by tons of bail out threes he took at the end of quarters or games that you rarely see players take anymore for fear of watering down their %'s. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a half/full court buzzer beater? Rarely anymore.

Even Matthew Dellavedova shoots 39% for his career on around 2.3 3PA per game. I'm sorry but it's definitely easier to shoot better on less attempts because you're effectively picking and choosing what 3s you take by attempting less (which are likely to be more wide open ones). And 32-33% is bad from 3 no matter the context.

You need to understand that when Jordan grew up, there was no three point line in the NBA, it wasn't until the middle of high school days that the the 3pt line was adopted by the NBA. The line was considered a gimmick, very few guys took a liking to it early on, and you don't see a big increase in 3pt shooting until about a decade later. Had Jordan grown up today, he would of probably practiced the 3pt shot a lot more in high school, then naturally in college and in the NBA, but it was a different time.

[LBJKBD12]

Why we always hear Lebron sucks as a shooter. Lebron improved every year up to last year i think. I agree with most i think Kobe would had looked much better shooter if he had better shot selection.

[infinite11285]

The man could do anything he set his mind to....

Have you seen him play baseball?

[soxfan2003]

Jordan would be a bit better 3 point shooter if he grew up in this era. I don't say a lot better since Jordan was a very good shooter who could get hot from the perimeter but not a great one.

Bird would have been much better since he would have been on teams geared to get him 3's and grown up practicing the shot. In today's game, Bird might play with a penetrating PG plus 2/3 other 3 point shooters and that is bound to get him more open/better looks.

Both players "midrange" game would have suffered at least a little bit with the higher focus on 3's.

I have been a huge fan of the 3 ball since about 1984 but I still don't think NBA teams on average are using it quite as much as they should. Probably the typical team should average around 30 attempts per game. As a purist, I don't necessarily like watching so many 3 balls thrown up in a game but the way to remedy in the future when players get to good at it might be just make the shot worth 2.5 points. Under the existing rules, teams should even be throwing up more 3's.

There was just extremely dumb/idiotic opposition to it for too many years. Announcers like Bob Cousy who did Celtics games would frown on way too many 3's but barely say anything about a 20-22 ft 2.

I actually don't think the 3 ball was properly appreciated until 2011. Dallas winning the championship with perimeter threat Dirk and a bunch of 3 point shooters had to wake up eyes in NBA circles. LA was probably more "talented" that year but Dallas hammered them by spreading them out and firing away. Miami was more talented but Dallas was able to spread the floor even better.

SA/Miami have just reinforced the wisdom of being good at shooting the 3 ball. I am not saying an "inside game" still isn't important but that is more about defense/rim protection than offense.

[madmaxmedia]

Thanks for this, very interesting. I think MJ would be a better 3PT shooter today, I don't want to speculate any further or compare to anyone today, because who the heck knows ( and I don't want to be too much of a fanboy.) Besides, it would have been a shame to see an alternate MJ that shot a lot more 3 pointers at the expense of mid/short-range drives and post-ups.

I consider him the best ever, but that doesn't mean he has to be the best at every single thing ever, in every era past and future.

Something I wrote a while back

What if I told you he has drained more playoff 3's then Bird did? Well sure you'd say Jordan played longer and the 3 point line was moved in for 3 years. So I take those 3 years out and he's drained 99 3PA's in 10 years. Bird had 80 in 12 years. 164 playoff games for Bird and 132 for MJ. Ah well of course Jordan was a lower pct shooter right? No, Jordan shot .345 from 3 (2.2 3PA), Bird shot .321. WTF? And yes this is removing the 3 years the line was moved in.

People take a look at Jordan stats and get influenced by his regular season stats where he just didn't shoot the 3 much. This was for two reasons, during the eighties you were pretty much a specialist to be green lighted for a 3. The 3 wasn't considered a first option like it is today. Second, Jordan felt he was more beneficial to his team by drawing attention and fouls so he didn't use it much. He rarely shot over 2 3PA's per game during the regular season. When the line was moved in he used it more but otherwise left it to the Kerr's, PAxson's and Hodge's. In the two years he averaged more then 2 3PA's per game when the line wasn't moved in he shot .364 from 3 point land. During the postseason he averaged over 2 careerwise.

Why focus on the postseason? Because that's when you really see what someone can do. That's when Jordan went to his full bag of tricks to beat teams. When he faced Portland in the Finals, they compared him to Drexler and said Drexler was a better 3 point shooter, so Jordan went out the first game and put on a 3 point show (6 in the first half). (.429 3P%, 4.7 3PA/G)

He rarely took the three often and because of that many seasons saw low percentages because they were often bailouts. Anytime he shot the three often, he shot it fairly well.

[yoyoboy]

My point was that it's hard to get into any kind of rhythm when you're taking less than 2 threes a game. It's also a numbers game. For example, if you take two free throws and miss one you're shooting 50%. If you take five free throws and miss two you're at 60%. If you take ten free throws and miss three you're at 70%. You can miss more when you shoot more and still have a better percentage. His percentages would have been significantly higher had he taken many more threes per game. I know this because when he attempted more than 2 or 3 his numbers went up. Also, his % was hurt by tons of bail out threes he took at the end of quarters or games that you rarely see players take anymore for fear of watering down their %'s. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a half/full court buzzer beater? Rarely anymore.

Even Matthew Dellavedova shoots 39% for his career on around 2.3 3PA per game. I'm sorry but it's definitely easier to shoot better on less attempts because you're effectively picking and choosing what 3s you take by attempting less (which are likely to be more wide open ones). And 32-33% is bad from 3 no matter the context.

You need to understand that when Jordan grew up, there was no three point line in the NBA, it wasn't until the middle of high school days that the the 3pt line was adopted by the NBA. The line was considered a gimmick, very few guys took a liking to it early on, and you don't see a big increase in 3pt shooting until about a decade later. Had Jordan grown up today, he would of probably practiced the 3pt shot a lot more in high school, then naturally in college and in the NBA, but it was a different time.

Ok? I'm not arguing against any of that and I don't know what that has to do with the argument. He didn't grow up today he didn't practoce his 3pt shooting more.

[dautjazz]

Even Matthew Dellavedova shoots 39% for his career on around 2.3 3PA per game. I'm sorry but it's definitely easier to shoot better on less attempts because you're effectively picking and choosing what 3s you take by attempting less (which are likely to be more wide open ones). And 32-33% is bad from 3 no matter the context.

You need to understand that when Jordan grew up, there was no three point line in the NBA, it wasn't until the middle of high school days that the the 3pt line was adopted by the NBA. The line was considered a gimmick, very few guys took a liking to it early on, and you don't see a big increase in 3pt shooting until about a decade later. Had Jordan grown up today, he would of probably practiced the 3pt shot a lot more in high school, then naturally in college and in the NBA, but it was a different time.

Ok? I'm not arguing against any of that and I don't know what that has to do with the argument. He didn't grow up today he didn't practoce his 3pt shooting more.

You said 32-33% is bad in any context, well, 1) he was super athletic, even by today's means, and could get to the line at will, there wasn't a need for him to camp outside, then 2) he learned his basketball fundamentals at a time when the 3pt shot was an ABA thing, and was just coming around in the NBA, it was considered a gimmick, so it wasn't a focal point in Jordan's early development. Take Dellavedona, I bet he practiced shooting behind the arc for hours upon hours growing up. That 6% margin is not THAT bad when you consider that it's not something Jordan really put much focus on. Steph Curry on the other hand is an elite 3pt shooter because from a VERY young age he practiced the 3pt shot. I know you can say that Larry Bird came a couple of years before MJ, and excelled in the shot, or Miller came 3 years after and excelled too, but those are extreme examples, and obviously weren't anywhere near as athletic as MJ.