All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
Rotation:
Jerry West/Deron Williams
Sidney Moncrief/Dan Majerle
Chris Mullin/Elgin Baylor
Buck Williams/Al Horford
Alonzo Mourning/Yao Ming
Coach: Tom Thibodeau
I think this team can be the best defensive team in the league. I've got DPOY's in both the frontcourt and backcourt, as well as all-D team members in West and Williams, plus one of the best defensive coaches of all time running the show. Given what he was able to do with the Celtics and Bulls, Thibs should turn this team into a powerhouse D with Zo and Squid holding down the fort. Many of my backups, including Yao, Horford, and Majerle, are also elite defenders, so the whole team will shutting down opponents for 48 minutes.
Offensively, the team has one of the elite guards of all time in Jerry West to lead the way. If you've never seen West play, his closest comparison is Dwyane Wade, statistically, except West was also an elite shooter. His shooting and playmaking abilities mean that he can excel at either PG or SG, and his backup, Deron Williams, was one of the best PG's in the league in his prime. My backup PG is very comparable to some of the starting PG's in this game.
At SG, Sidney Moncrief was one of the best defenders in the world, but he was also a great mid-range shooter with multiple 20 ppg seasons on over 50% shooting. He's the perfect compliment to West on that end. Majerle won't play much, but if I need a 3/D guy, he's one of the best there is.
Chris Mullin was an All-NBA 1st forward in the 90's, beating out guys like Barkley and Malone, and his all-around game was fantastic. 25+ per game on great percentages from 3, and will help space the floor along with West for the starting line-up. Off the bench, I have (IMO) the best 6th man in this game in Elgin Baylor, who was an elite all-around scorer and rebounder. He's taken some criticism for his efficiency, but the average efficiency in the 60's was generally low due to the style of gameplay, and off the bench his role will be much more restrained, while still allowing him the spacing and ability to showcase the talent that allowed him to average 38/17 for a season.
Buck Williams isn't a well-known guy, but he was a great player in the 80's and 90's. Much like Horace Grant, Buck was a great mid-range shooter and a stud defensively, and even though he shifted to that role later in his career, he was still an all-NBA 2nd team player in the beginning of his career when required to shoot more. Al Horford is very similar, in that he's a well-rounded PF with no real weaknesses, and can fill any role, be it floor-spacer or primary defender.
Mourning is one of the best C's of all time, and even though his kidney problems cut his prime short, he was an elite defensive anchor, winning back-to-back DPOY's. He was also a very strong scorer, but given how talented this team is, Mourning can focus his energy on D and take advantage of strong matchups on offense. Off the bench, Yao Ming is another elite C who was hampered by injuries, but was an all-time great shooting big-man and defensive player, and will get plenty of time to feast on opposing backup C's.
Overall, I focused more on my bench than most other people did, and I believe that should give me the edge here. Much of my team consists of older players, which may put me at a disadvantage, but given the way guys like West and Baylor played, their games would easily translate to the modern era. My main backups (D-Will, Baylor, and Yao) could easily be starters for many teams in this league, and when you combine that with the stifling D of my starting lineup, I hope you can see why my team deserves to win.
Jerry West/Deron Williams
Sidney Moncrief/Dan Majerle
Chris Mullin/Elgin Baylor
Buck Williams/Al Horford
Alonzo Mourning/Yao Ming
Coach: Tom Thibodeau
I think this team can be the best defensive team in the league. I've got DPOY's in both the frontcourt and backcourt, as well as all-D team members in West and Williams, plus one of the best defensive coaches of all time running the show. Given what he was able to do with the Celtics and Bulls, Thibs should turn this team into a powerhouse D with Zo and Squid holding down the fort. Many of my backups, including Yao, Horford, and Majerle, are also elite defenders, so the whole team will shutting down opponents for 48 minutes.
Offensively, the team has one of the elite guards of all time in Jerry West to lead the way. If you've never seen West play, his closest comparison is Dwyane Wade, statistically, except West was also an elite shooter. His shooting and playmaking abilities mean that he can excel at either PG or SG, and his backup, Deron Williams, was one of the best PG's in the league in his prime. My backup PG is very comparable to some of the starting PG's in this game.
At SG, Sidney Moncrief was one of the best defenders in the world, but he was also a great mid-range shooter with multiple 20 ppg seasons on over 50% shooting. He's the perfect compliment to West on that end. Majerle won't play much, but if I need a 3/D guy, he's one of the best there is.
Chris Mullin was an All-NBA 1st forward in the 90's, beating out guys like Barkley and Malone, and his all-around game was fantastic. 25+ per game on great percentages from 3, and will help space the floor along with West for the starting line-up. Off the bench, I have (IMO) the best 6th man in this game in Elgin Baylor, who was an elite all-around scorer and rebounder. He's taken some criticism for his efficiency, but the average efficiency in the 60's was generally low due to the style of gameplay, and off the bench his role will be much more restrained, while still allowing him the spacing and ability to showcase the talent that allowed him to average 38/17 for a season.
Buck Williams isn't a well-known guy, but he was a great player in the 80's and 90's. Much like Horace Grant, Buck was a great mid-range shooter and a stud defensively, and even though he shifted to that role later in his career, he was still an all-NBA 2nd team player in the beginning of his career when required to shoot more. Al Horford is very similar, in that he's a well-rounded PF with no real weaknesses, and can fill any role, be it floor-spacer or primary defender.
Mourning is one of the best C's of all time, and even though his kidney problems cut his prime short, he was an elite defensive anchor, winning back-to-back DPOY's. He was also a very strong scorer, but given how talented this team is, Mourning can focus his energy on D and take advantage of strong matchups on offense. Off the bench, Yao Ming is another elite C who was hampered by injuries, but was an all-time great shooting big-man and defensive player, and will get plenty of time to feast on opposing backup C's.
Overall, I focused more on my bench than most other people did, and I believe that should give me the edge here. Much of my team consists of older players, which may put me at a disadvantage, but given the way guys like West and Baylor played, their games would easily translate to the modern era. My main backups (D-Will, Baylor, and Yao) could easily be starters for many teams in this league, and when you combine that with the stifling D of my starting lineup, I hope you can see why my team deserves to win.
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
Starters
PG - Chauncey Billups (‘06-’08)
SG - George Gervin (‘78-’80)
SF - *Rick Barry (‘67-’70)
PF - Horace Grant (‘92-’94)
C - David Robinson (‘94-’96)
Bench
*Bruce Bowen (‘04-’06)
Dave Cowens (‘74-’76)
Terry Porter (‘91-’93)
Danny Green (‘13-present)
Kevin Willis (‘92-’94)
Coach: Bill Sharman
My general philosophy was to create a team that is deep, that is great and balanced on both sides of the ball; a team without significant weakness in any area of the game.
To go thru, I’ll begin by outlining the qualities I see in my 1st unit (hinting at their application), then my “2nd unit”, then a word about my coach, and finally a few comments on minutes/usage of the players at my disposal.
1st Unit
Offensive
My 1st unit has elite-level perimeter scoring and elite-level interior scoring. I have one of the GOAT-level slasher/finishing perimeter scorers, an elite post scorer, 3pt shooting/floor spacing, good ball-control, and pretty good passing from nearly all positions.
My offensive front-man is going to be The Iceman. This was a guy who even prior to changes to hand-check rules was slashing and getting into the lane effectively. Was an amazing finisher, even more amazing at finishing what appeared to be almost “circus-shots” (finger rolls from 5 feet from the basket??), good mid-range shooter, excellent at hitting little “leaners” and “floaters”, too. In the span of his career I’m going with (‘78-’80) he was averaging a big 36.2 pts/100 possessions while shooting an amazing 53.5% FG% . Decent at getting to the line, too, where he shot 83.6%; overall 59.1% ts (+6.6% to league avg) during this span, which is pretty amazing while scoring such volume and shouldering that level of primacy.
And did it generate effective team offense? You bet it did. If you scrutinize those Spur teams: his biggest offensive help were guys like Billy Paultz and James Silas. And yet the Spurs ORtg during the span: 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd (out of 22) respectively.
With modern rules (no hand-checking) being in place for this fantasy league, makes me think he could be even MORE effective/efficient in getting into the paint or to the line. Just an amazing scorer.
When David Robinson (GOAT-level rs performer, and who knows how good he could be in post-season with the focus taken off him) is your SECOND option, how good must your offense be?!? In the years specified this guy averaged 37.0 pts/100 poss @ 58.9% ts (+5.13% to league avg). He gives me a center who can run in transition and finish off oops as good as any center that has ever played. A nice face-up game with the quickness/athleticism to blow by slower centers, and the strength and explosiveness to bully weaker centers on the block. Doesn't let you off the hook at the FT-line either, where he was a career 73.6% shooter. Where his playoff short-comings are concerned, well…..that isn’t much of a concern now, as he no longer has to shoulder the burden of being my primary scorer. And Gervin, you’ll note, doesn’t appear to skip a beat in the playoffs (nor do some of my other starters; more on that later). Pretty decent passing big, and a consummate teammate, too.
Chauncey Billups provides a more than capable floor general, good play-making, very good ball-control (Ast:TO ratio of 2.81 during his prime), and clutch play (1-Time FMVP, nicknamed “Mr. Big Shot” for a reason; and you’ll note he too doesn’t appear to skip a beat in the playoffs). Elite outside shooting, which also helps with the floor spacing; and it’s pretty nice to have a ~60-61% ts scoring as your third (at times perhaps 4th) option scorer.
You may be wondering why I had an * by Rick Barry and Bruce Bowen. It’s because while I may be starting Rick Barry, I actually don’t intend to play him much with the 1st unit. I am more intending to use him as the offensive engine of my 2nd unit.
We all know Barry likes a lot of shots, and that he has more than his share of ego. However, he’s also an intelligent guy with a pretty high bball IQ. I think even he would recognize that he’s a superstar among superstars on this team, and that he simply cannot warrant/demand the kind of primacy that he was otherwise used to.
My intent was to probably start him (to soothe his ego with the distinction of being a “starter” on this team full of superstars), but then likely bench him early in the first quarter in favor of Bruce Bowen. An additional perimeter scorer (Barry) is a touch redundant with the line-up I’ve already described. Really what I need is an additional guy to space the floor (Bowen: 39.9% 3pt shooter on avg 2.9 3PA/g in years specified; really elite in the corners), and do little else offensively; the rest of Bowen’s value would come on the other end (more on that below). And then Barry is free to get lots of shots while on the court with the 2nd unit, as that is my primary intention for him. So anyway, that was the purpose of the * by each of their names.
And lastly, at PF, I intend to start Horace Grant. His role on offense will be to occasionally catch an interior pass from a penetrating guard and finish at the rim (he’s proved to have great hands and nice finishing ability), hit the occasional open 11-18 footer (another thing he’s pretty well proven at), do some facilitating from the high post (not unaccustomed to that either; avg as high as 3.4 apg in the years specified, with a cumulative Ast:TO ratio of 2.06---which is almost unheard of for a PF). And otherwise, I want to crash the offensive glass (another thing he’s proven capable of: OREB% of 14.0% in years specified).
All in all, this seems like a marvelous offensive line-up, imo.
Defense
I’ve one ELITE level perimeter defender who can stymie most perimeter scorers to some degree---Bruce Bowen.
I’ve got another very good perimeter defender in Chauncey Billups.
In Horace Grant I’ve got a guy who is mobile and smart enough to defend very well against the pick-n-roll, is a very good low-post defender (against PF or C), and a decent help defender, too.
And then to pick up any slack, protect the rim, defend pnr and anything else that needs doing I’ve got a short-list all-time great defensive center to anchor it all in DRob.
This defense frankly looks every bit as amazing as the offense. On to the 2nd unit…..
2nd Unit
Rick Barry is intended to be the primary scorer with this group, with the rest more or less working off of him and the attention he’ll draw. Aside from shooting, Barry was a more than competent passing SF, too; was a totally decent defensive player from what I’ve seen, too.
I should have great floor spacing with this group: Danny Green is an absolutely lights out 3pt shooter (42.1% from downtown on 5.2 3PA/g over the last three years). And what’s more, he’s a scrappy defender (with nice DRAPM in recent years). He tends to bring his A-game in the playoffs, too.
Terry Porter, despite playing in an era before the 3pt line was in such high usage was shooting 40.8% from trey on 4.0 3PA/g in the years specified. He also gives solid leadership, play-making, and ball control.
Dave Cowens should more or less be able to fill every function (on both offense and defense) at the PF that I wanted in Horace Grant: can hit open mid-range shots, can pass/facilitate from the high post, quick enough to defend the pick-n-roll or if caught on a switch, and tough/strong enough to defend the low post. Maybe not quite as good a finisher as Grant, but has a little more in the way of post-up game should that be required (only reason I’m not starting him ahead of Grant, is that this aspect of his game will get lost among this stacked team); and he’s probably a MORE elite rebounder than Grant.
And Kevin Willis will provide some reasonable offense, again the lateral quickness to defend the pick-n-roll, and the strength to defend the post. And while he’s not much of a rim protector at all, he’s an absolute beast on the boards (he’s rebounding just a small step below peak Dwight Howard, with a Reb/100 poss rate of 18.5 during the years specified).
Coaching
At coach I’ve got a very cerebral, tough-minded warrior in Bill Sharman. A guy who understood well both sides of the game, and appeared capable of dealing with big egos (coached both Rick Barry and Wilt Chamberlain in his career, and took both of them to the NBA finals, winning it all with Wilt. He also coached one ABA champion).
Come on!…..this team is remarkable in all aspects of the game.
Minutes/Usage
I’m generally only going 9 guys deep in my roster…..
David Robinson is clearly my most dominant all-around player, and also plays the position for which I lose the most in going to his replacement (Willis, although I’ll likely use either Cowens or Grant at the C position once in awhile). So he’s going to be getting the largest minutes.
Second in minutes will likely be Gervin, as he’s my most reliable high volume/high efficiency scorer (at any position). As long as he’s on the court (with just about any other compliment of the players I have on the roster), that will put pressure on any defense. Can’t see playing him any less than about 30 mpg.
Billups will likely be third, with Porter pretty consistently being his sub. Barry will likely only be about 4th in minutes (again: mostly as the leader of my second unit, though he may spell Gervin at SG here and there; only rarely intend to have both he and Gervin on the floor at the same time).
Bowen, although just a role player, will likely be getting ~24 mpg. Barry and Gervin on the court at the same time creates a bit of redundancy, so I’ll usually have Bowen at SF when Gervin is on the court. Bowen (in combo with either Billups or Porter) ensures floor spacing on offense, and is my most elite perimeter defender who can be assigned to the best SG/SF on the other end.
Both Cowens and Grant will likely see at least a little time at the C position, otherwise each spelling the other at PF. Both will likely be >24 mpg.
Green will also get relevant playing time, mostly alongside Barry with the 2nd unit.
Kevin Willis is mostly just a bit of filler, really only getting minimal minutes to help get Robinson a the minimum reasonable amount of rest, and/or filling in when there’s foul trouble issues, etc.
Overall, the minutes per game will look something like this:
David Robinson 34-36 mpg
George Gervin 30-32 mpg
Chauncey Billups 27-30 mpg
Rick Barry 24-27 mpg
Horace Grant 24-27 mpg
Dave Cowens 24-27 mpg
Bruce Bowen 24 mpg
Terry Porter 18-21 mpg
Danny Green 18 mpg
Kevin Willis ~6 mpg
PG - Chauncey Billups (‘06-’08)
SG - George Gervin (‘78-’80)
SF - *Rick Barry (‘67-’70)
PF - Horace Grant (‘92-’94)
C - David Robinson (‘94-’96)
Bench
*Bruce Bowen (‘04-’06)
Dave Cowens (‘74-’76)
Terry Porter (‘91-’93)
Danny Green (‘13-present)
Kevin Willis (‘92-’94)
Coach: Bill Sharman
My general philosophy was to create a team that is deep, that is great and balanced on both sides of the ball; a team without significant weakness in any area of the game.
To go thru, I’ll begin by outlining the qualities I see in my 1st unit (hinting at their application), then my “2nd unit”, then a word about my coach, and finally a few comments on minutes/usage of the players at my disposal.
1st Unit
Offensive
My 1st unit has elite-level perimeter scoring and elite-level interior scoring. I have one of the GOAT-level slasher/finishing perimeter scorers, an elite post scorer, 3pt shooting/floor spacing, good ball-control, and pretty good passing from nearly all positions.
My offensive front-man is going to be The Iceman. This was a guy who even prior to changes to hand-check rules was slashing and getting into the lane effectively. Was an amazing finisher, even more amazing at finishing what appeared to be almost “circus-shots” (finger rolls from 5 feet from the basket??), good mid-range shooter, excellent at hitting little “leaners” and “floaters”, too. In the span of his career I’m going with (‘78-’80) he was averaging a big 36.2 pts/100 possessions while shooting an amazing 53.5% FG% . Decent at getting to the line, too, where he shot 83.6%; overall 59.1% ts (+6.6% to league avg) during this span, which is pretty amazing while scoring such volume and shouldering that level of primacy.
And did it generate effective team offense? You bet it did. If you scrutinize those Spur teams: his biggest offensive help were guys like Billy Paultz and James Silas. And yet the Spurs ORtg during the span: 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd (out of 22) respectively.
With modern rules (no hand-checking) being in place for this fantasy league, makes me think he could be even MORE effective/efficient in getting into the paint or to the line. Just an amazing scorer.
When David Robinson (GOAT-level rs performer, and who knows how good he could be in post-season with the focus taken off him) is your SECOND option, how good must your offense be?!? In the years specified this guy averaged 37.0 pts/100 poss @ 58.9% ts (+5.13% to league avg). He gives me a center who can run in transition and finish off oops as good as any center that has ever played. A nice face-up game with the quickness/athleticism to blow by slower centers, and the strength and explosiveness to bully weaker centers on the block. Doesn't let you off the hook at the FT-line either, where he was a career 73.6% shooter. Where his playoff short-comings are concerned, well…..that isn’t much of a concern now, as he no longer has to shoulder the burden of being my primary scorer. And Gervin, you’ll note, doesn’t appear to skip a beat in the playoffs (nor do some of my other starters; more on that later). Pretty decent passing big, and a consummate teammate, too.
Chauncey Billups provides a more than capable floor general, good play-making, very good ball-control (Ast:TO ratio of 2.81 during his prime), and clutch play (1-Time FMVP, nicknamed “Mr. Big Shot” for a reason; and you’ll note he too doesn’t appear to skip a beat in the playoffs). Elite outside shooting, which also helps with the floor spacing; and it’s pretty nice to have a ~60-61% ts scoring as your third (at times perhaps 4th) option scorer.
You may be wondering why I had an * by Rick Barry and Bruce Bowen. It’s because while I may be starting Rick Barry, I actually don’t intend to play him much with the 1st unit. I am more intending to use him as the offensive engine of my 2nd unit.
We all know Barry likes a lot of shots, and that he has more than his share of ego. However, he’s also an intelligent guy with a pretty high bball IQ. I think even he would recognize that he’s a superstar among superstars on this team, and that he simply cannot warrant/demand the kind of primacy that he was otherwise used to.
My intent was to probably start him (to soothe his ego with the distinction of being a “starter” on this team full of superstars), but then likely bench him early in the first quarter in favor of Bruce Bowen. An additional perimeter scorer (Barry) is a touch redundant with the line-up I’ve already described. Really what I need is an additional guy to space the floor (Bowen: 39.9% 3pt shooter on avg 2.9 3PA/g in years specified; really elite in the corners), and do little else offensively; the rest of Bowen’s value would come on the other end (more on that below). And then Barry is free to get lots of shots while on the court with the 2nd unit, as that is my primary intention for him. So anyway, that was the purpose of the * by each of their names.
And lastly, at PF, I intend to start Horace Grant. His role on offense will be to occasionally catch an interior pass from a penetrating guard and finish at the rim (he’s proved to have great hands and nice finishing ability), hit the occasional open 11-18 footer (another thing he’s pretty well proven at), do some facilitating from the high post (not unaccustomed to that either; avg as high as 3.4 apg in the years specified, with a cumulative Ast:TO ratio of 2.06---which is almost unheard of for a PF). And otherwise, I want to crash the offensive glass (another thing he’s proven capable of: OREB% of 14.0% in years specified).
All in all, this seems like a marvelous offensive line-up, imo.
Defense
I’ve one ELITE level perimeter defender who can stymie most perimeter scorers to some degree---Bruce Bowen.
I’ve got another very good perimeter defender in Chauncey Billups.
In Horace Grant I’ve got a guy who is mobile and smart enough to defend very well against the pick-n-roll, is a very good low-post defender (against PF or C), and a decent help defender, too.
And then to pick up any slack, protect the rim, defend pnr and anything else that needs doing I’ve got a short-list all-time great defensive center to anchor it all in DRob.
This defense frankly looks every bit as amazing as the offense. On to the 2nd unit…..
2nd Unit
Rick Barry is intended to be the primary scorer with this group, with the rest more or less working off of him and the attention he’ll draw. Aside from shooting, Barry was a more than competent passing SF, too; was a totally decent defensive player from what I’ve seen, too.
I should have great floor spacing with this group: Danny Green is an absolutely lights out 3pt shooter (42.1% from downtown on 5.2 3PA/g over the last three years). And what’s more, he’s a scrappy defender (with nice DRAPM in recent years). He tends to bring his A-game in the playoffs, too.
Terry Porter, despite playing in an era before the 3pt line was in such high usage was shooting 40.8% from trey on 4.0 3PA/g in the years specified. He also gives solid leadership, play-making, and ball control.
Dave Cowens should more or less be able to fill every function (on both offense and defense) at the PF that I wanted in Horace Grant: can hit open mid-range shots, can pass/facilitate from the high post, quick enough to defend the pick-n-roll or if caught on a switch, and tough/strong enough to defend the low post. Maybe not quite as good a finisher as Grant, but has a little more in the way of post-up game should that be required (only reason I’m not starting him ahead of Grant, is that this aspect of his game will get lost among this stacked team); and he’s probably a MORE elite rebounder than Grant.
And Kevin Willis will provide some reasonable offense, again the lateral quickness to defend the pick-n-roll, and the strength to defend the post. And while he’s not much of a rim protector at all, he’s an absolute beast on the boards (he’s rebounding just a small step below peak Dwight Howard, with a Reb/100 poss rate of 18.5 during the years specified).
Coaching
At coach I’ve got a very cerebral, tough-minded warrior in Bill Sharman. A guy who understood well both sides of the game, and appeared capable of dealing with big egos (coached both Rick Barry and Wilt Chamberlain in his career, and took both of them to the NBA finals, winning it all with Wilt. He also coached one ABA champion).
Come on!…..this team is remarkable in all aspects of the game.
Minutes/Usage
I’m generally only going 9 guys deep in my roster…..
David Robinson is clearly my most dominant all-around player, and also plays the position for which I lose the most in going to his replacement (Willis, although I’ll likely use either Cowens or Grant at the C position once in awhile). So he’s going to be getting the largest minutes.
Second in minutes will likely be Gervin, as he’s my most reliable high volume/high efficiency scorer (at any position). As long as he’s on the court (with just about any other compliment of the players I have on the roster), that will put pressure on any defense. Can’t see playing him any less than about 30 mpg.
Billups will likely be third, with Porter pretty consistently being his sub. Barry will likely only be about 4th in minutes (again: mostly as the leader of my second unit, though he may spell Gervin at SG here and there; only rarely intend to have both he and Gervin on the floor at the same time).
Bowen, although just a role player, will likely be getting ~24 mpg. Barry and Gervin on the court at the same time creates a bit of redundancy, so I’ll usually have Bowen at SF when Gervin is on the court. Bowen (in combo with either Billups or Porter) ensures floor spacing on offense, and is my most elite perimeter defender who can be assigned to the best SG/SF on the other end.
Both Cowens and Grant will likely see at least a little time at the C position, otherwise each spelling the other at PF. Both will likely be >24 mpg.
Green will also get relevant playing time, mostly alongside Barry with the 2nd unit.
Kevin Willis is mostly just a bit of filler, really only getting minimal minutes to help get Robinson a the minimum reasonable amount of rest, and/or filling in when there’s foul trouble issues, etc.
Overall, the minutes per game will look something like this:
David Robinson 34-36 mpg
George Gervin 30-32 mpg
Chauncey Billups 27-30 mpg
Rick Barry 24-27 mpg
Horace Grant 24-27 mpg
Dave Cowens 24-27 mpg
Bruce Bowen 24 mpg
Terry Porter 18-21 mpg
Danny Green 18 mpg
Kevin Willis ~6 mpg
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
- thizznation
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
Dr Spaceman wrote:So are we PM'ing these to Beast? How do we move forward now?
If you are done you should just go ahead and send your final write up to penbeast. We should have our final edits ready so we all only send peanbeast 1 private message with your finished product. If we all send 2 or more pm's his inbox is going to be flooded.
For deadlines, I'm not sure. Some people could of been busy for Easter so I will suggest Wednesday or perhaps Friday for a final deadline of your team writeup to be sent to penbeast. Anyone have some input?
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
I'm working on mine, presently. I was extremely busy this weekend, since it was Easter. I'll most likely have mine finished today.
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
This is just seeding. I say people send what they can now, let pen decide, and then we move on to matchups. That would likely be more involved and detailed.
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
I don't plan to write an exhaustive post for seeding purposes. Here's a general outline:
G - Gary Payton (96-98) / Kyrie Irving (13-15)
G - Kawhi Leonard (13-15) / Raja Bell (06-08)
F - Kevin Durant (12-14) / Paul George (12-14)
F - Blake Griffin (13-15) / Pau Gasol (09-11)
C - Artis Gilmore (72-74) / Wes Unseld (76-78)
Coach Mike Budenholzer
Coach Budenholzer is a disciple of Greg Popovich and it shows in his coaching of the Atlanta Hawks. He has led a team with little star power that is 26th in the NBA in payroll to the number 1 seed in just his second year as Head Coach. The Hawks are an "extra pass", "dirty-work" team. They win through communication. Does anyone doubt that Bud would win championships if he was blessed with the same roster Scott Brooks has disappointed with?
I did not draft role-players. I absolutely believe that talent wins out in the end. I built this roster to capitalize on incredible length and athleticism without sacrificing skill and actual basketball ability. A 2/3 rotation of Durant/George/Leonard means that I either have 2 7-foot wings playing together at all times or one of them is paired with the most terrifying defensive wing since Scottie Pippen. Gary Payton is a 6'4 DPOY at point guard who guarded Michael Jordan in the Finals and held him to some of his worst playoff performances of his career. Artis Gilmore is a 7'2 monster in the middle who immediately transformed the Colonel's defense into the best in the ABA from his rookie year onward and is generally regarded as (aside from Wilt), the strongest man to play the game of basketball. He set ABA records for blocks and rebounds and won MVP as a rookie over prime Julius Erving. Raja Bell is an All-NBA defensive player off the bench. Wes Unseld is one of the greatest rebounders ever. Pau Gasol was a very good defender with the Lakers in his prime. My defense IS elite. I was, however, able to select very good defensive players who don't give up anything on offense. I have no players like Rodman or Ben Wallace. There is no one on my roster that is one-dimensional, but there are players on both sides of the ball that are game-changers.
My offense clearly runs through Kevin Durant. It's arguable that his 2014 MVP season is the greatest scoring season ever. He's unstoppable. There is no defender that can mitigate what he brings offensively. I can line him up as a 2-guard and laugh as a he shoots over the top of any 6'7 SG that is tasked with "defending" him. Between Irving, Bell, George, Leonard and Durant, I have 5 players that are capable of shooting the ball at a very high level and 2 of them will be on the court at all times. Add to that the fact that Gasol and Griffin are both very good midrange shooters, my spacing will be excellent. At all times, I will have 3-4 players capable of creating their own shot, unnasisted, on the floor. There is no one you can ignore on my offense. The center in my offense is primarily tasked with setting hard picks and rolling to the basket. They are there for dirty work. Offensive rebounds and putbacks. It's good that I have two of the strongest, hardest-working 5's in basketball history. Listen to any of their peers speak about Gilmore or Unseld and you will first hear about their strength and how they physically beat you up during the course of the game. Gasol, Griffin and Unseld are all phenomenal passers. The ball will not stop when passed to a post player. However, if left one on one, Griffin and Gasol will take their man to the basket. Kyrie Irving is on this team to be a shot in the arm off the bench. He will come in and play limited minutes, typically with Durant sitting, and be asked to simply score the basketball. My favorite aspect of my team is their ability in transition. Watch a couple of videos of Payton and Kemp in transition, then imagine that with a superior player in Blake Griffin. Now imagine that with a famous Wes Unseld outlet pass. Now add the length and speed of Kawhi Leonard or Paul George. Now add the scoring prowess of Kevin Durant. No one is stopping an Unseld -> Payton -> Durant/Griffin/Leronard/George break.
TLDR version:
Game-changing defenders = Payton/George/Leronard/Bell/Gilmore
Unstoppable scorers = Durant/Griffin/Irving
Bone-jarring picks = Unseld/Gilmore
Elite rebounding = Gilmore/Unseld/Gasol/Leonard/Payton/George
Great passers = Payton/Irving/Gasol/Griffin/Unseld
MVPs = Durant/Unseld/Gilmore/Leonard (FMVP)
Run, run, run, pass, pass, pass. Score. Defend.
G - Gary Payton (96-98) / Kyrie Irving (13-15)
G - Kawhi Leonard (13-15) / Raja Bell (06-08)
F - Kevin Durant (12-14) / Paul George (12-14)
F - Blake Griffin (13-15) / Pau Gasol (09-11)
C - Artis Gilmore (72-74) / Wes Unseld (76-78)
Coach Mike Budenholzer
Coach Budenholzer is a disciple of Greg Popovich and it shows in his coaching of the Atlanta Hawks. He has led a team with little star power that is 26th in the NBA in payroll to the number 1 seed in just his second year as Head Coach. The Hawks are an "extra pass", "dirty-work" team. They win through communication. Does anyone doubt that Bud would win championships if he was blessed with the same roster Scott Brooks has disappointed with?
I did not draft role-players. I absolutely believe that talent wins out in the end. I built this roster to capitalize on incredible length and athleticism without sacrificing skill and actual basketball ability. A 2/3 rotation of Durant/George/Leonard means that I either have 2 7-foot wings playing together at all times or one of them is paired with the most terrifying defensive wing since Scottie Pippen. Gary Payton is a 6'4 DPOY at point guard who guarded Michael Jordan in the Finals and held him to some of his worst playoff performances of his career. Artis Gilmore is a 7'2 monster in the middle who immediately transformed the Colonel's defense into the best in the ABA from his rookie year onward and is generally regarded as (aside from Wilt), the strongest man to play the game of basketball. He set ABA records for blocks and rebounds and won MVP as a rookie over prime Julius Erving. Raja Bell is an All-NBA defensive player off the bench. Wes Unseld is one of the greatest rebounders ever. Pau Gasol was a very good defender with the Lakers in his prime. My defense IS elite. I was, however, able to select very good defensive players who don't give up anything on offense. I have no players like Rodman or Ben Wallace. There is no one on my roster that is one-dimensional, but there are players on both sides of the ball that are game-changers.
My offense clearly runs through Kevin Durant. It's arguable that his 2014 MVP season is the greatest scoring season ever. He's unstoppable. There is no defender that can mitigate what he brings offensively. I can line him up as a 2-guard and laugh as a he shoots over the top of any 6'7 SG that is tasked with "defending" him. Between Irving, Bell, George, Leonard and Durant, I have 5 players that are capable of shooting the ball at a very high level and 2 of them will be on the court at all times. Add to that the fact that Gasol and Griffin are both very good midrange shooters, my spacing will be excellent. At all times, I will have 3-4 players capable of creating their own shot, unnasisted, on the floor. There is no one you can ignore on my offense. The center in my offense is primarily tasked with setting hard picks and rolling to the basket. They are there for dirty work. Offensive rebounds and putbacks. It's good that I have two of the strongest, hardest-working 5's in basketball history. Listen to any of their peers speak about Gilmore or Unseld and you will first hear about their strength and how they physically beat you up during the course of the game. Gasol, Griffin and Unseld are all phenomenal passers. The ball will not stop when passed to a post player. However, if left one on one, Griffin and Gasol will take their man to the basket. Kyrie Irving is on this team to be a shot in the arm off the bench. He will come in and play limited minutes, typically with Durant sitting, and be asked to simply score the basketball. My favorite aspect of my team is their ability in transition. Watch a couple of videos of Payton and Kemp in transition, then imagine that with a superior player in Blake Griffin. Now imagine that with a famous Wes Unseld outlet pass. Now add the length and speed of Kawhi Leonard or Paul George. Now add the scoring prowess of Kevin Durant. No one is stopping an Unseld -> Payton -> Durant/Griffin/Leronard/George break.
TLDR version:
Game-changing defenders = Payton/George/Leronard/Bell/Gilmore
Unstoppable scorers = Durant/Griffin/Irving
Bone-jarring picks = Unseld/Gilmore
Elite rebounding = Gilmore/Unseld/Gasol/Leonard/Payton/George
Great passers = Payton/Irving/Gasol/Griffin/Unseld
MVPs = Durant/Unseld/Gilmore/Leonard (FMVP)
Run, run, run, pass, pass, pass. Score. Defend.
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
parsnips33 wrote:Pick: Charles Barkley
RSCD3_ wrote:Pick : Dwight Howard
HeartBreakKid wrote:I'll take Julius Erving!
giordunk wrote:Oooh just caught this. Oscar is also in the top 12.
I think these are the four we are missing. I'm hoping we can begin soon.
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
Isn't the draft over, why can't we just start?
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
We need match ups and penbeast was nice enough to offer help in seeding. If people are fine with just using owly's post a page back in lieu of anything else, penbeast can use that. I'm in favor of not dragging this out.
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
I sent Penbeast a private with my write up.
"It's scarier than Charles Barkley at an all you can eat buffet." --Shaq on Shark Week
"My secret to getting rebounds? It's called go get the damn ball." --Charles Barkley
"My secret to getting rebounds? It's called go get the damn ball." --Charles Barkley
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
My write up will be done very soon. Sorry I've been a bit busy
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
Don't know if it's necessary to mention it, but I already PM'ed penbeast0 with my write-up. Just waiting for word on everything.
btw--When it comes time for the actually voting, I think we all owe each other the courtesy of thoroughly reading everyone's write up before casting a vote. Maybe that goes without saying, but just mentioning it because I think it would be inappropriate to merely scrutinize the line-ups and draw your own conclusions without reading the author's thoughts on application, etc.
btw--When it comes time for the actually voting, I think we all owe each other the courtesy of thoroughly reading everyone's write up before casting a vote. Maybe that goes without saying, but just mentioning it because I think it would be inappropriate to merely scrutinize the line-ups and draw your own conclusions without reading the author's thoughts on application, etc.
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
trex_8063 wrote:Don't know if it's necessary to mention it, but I already PM'ed penbeast0 with my write-up. Just waiting for word on everything.
btw--When it comes time for the actually voting, I think we all owe each other the courtesy of thoroughly reading everyone's write up before casting a vote. Maybe that goes without saying, but just mentioning it because I think it would be inappropriate to merely scrutinize the line-ups and draw your own conclusions without reading the authors thoughts on application, etc.
I was hoping that we could move it to the PC board and let them vote.
HomoSapien wrote:Warspite, the greatest poster in the history of realgm.
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
I have about 6 writeups PM's . . . when do you need the seedings?
Doesn't really belong on PC board, belongs here. Do you want only the people active in the game to vote (certainly gives you more control/less trolling but also potential for gaming the system) or do you want to throw it open?
Doesn't really belong on PC board, belongs here. Do you want only the people active in the game to vote (certainly gives you more control/less trolling but also potential for gaming the system) or do you want to throw it open?
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
I will pm soon...keyboard broke the other night, clumsy girlfriends for the loss
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
thizznation wrote:I will pm soon...keyboard broke the other night, clumsy girlfriends for the loss
Sure....."clumsy girlfriend". Freaky circus sex FTW!
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
trex_8063 wrote:thizznation wrote:I will pm soon...keyboard broke the other night, clumsy girlfriends for the loss
Sure....."clumsy girlfriend". Freaky circus sex FTW!
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
JeepCSC wrote:parsnips33 wrote:Pick: Charles BarkleyRSCD3_ wrote:Pick : Dwight HowardHeartBreakKid wrote:I'll take Julius Erving!giordunk wrote:Oooh just caught this. Oscar is also in the top 12.
I think these are the four we are missing. I'm hoping we can begin soon.
Most have written hype-info packages now. HeartBreakKid, like Jaivl appeared to decline/feel no need to hype.
Of the publicly written hype (some may have added in PMs, and certainly thizznation has been talking about PM-ing but wasn’t on the list of haven’t done hype visibly guys).
The Teams (in one place, so someone can judge them) not necessarily arranged as players intended, just as done by me, with higher drafted players typically amongst the first five. This is based on 3 year peaks (consecutive, Yao-esque 48 game seasons are considered as pro-rated 82 game seasons, major injuries allow for a one year exception). In draft order...
SkyHookFTW
Moses Malone
Kevin McHale
Bobby Jones
James Harden
Isiah Thomas
Jack Sikma
Billy Cunningham
Alex English
Hal Greer
Calvin Murphy
Coach: Billy Cunningham
Spoiler:
trex_8063
David Robinson
Horace Grant
Rick Barry
George Gervin
Chauncey Billups
Kevin Willis
Dave Cowens
Bruce Bowen
Danny Green
Terry Porter
Coach: Bill Sharman
Spoiler:
Quotatious
Ben Wallace
Kevin Garnett
Predrag Stojakovic
Clyde Drexler
Kevin Johnson
Brad Daugherty
Clifford Robinson
Tayshaun Prince
Hersey Hawkins
Michael Cooper
Coach: Rick Adelman
Spoiler:
HeartBreakKidd
Arvydas Sabonis
Bob Pettit
Julius Erving
Tracy McGrady
Mike Conley
George Mikan
Charles Oakley
Paul Arizin
Byron Scott
Damian Lillard
Coach: Red Holzman
HeartBreakKid wrote:Isn't the draft over, why can't we just start?
RevisIsland
Artis Gilmore
Pau Gasol
Kevin Durant
Kawhi Leonard
Gary Payton
Wes Unseld
Blake Griffin
Paul George
Raja Bell
Kyrie Irving
Coach: Mike Budenholzer
Spoiler:
giordunk
Nate Thurmond
Chris Webber
Carmelo Anthony
Dwyane Wade
John Stockton
Joakim Noah
Gerald Wallace
Shane Battier
Klay Thompson
Allen Iverson
Coach: Chuck Daly
???
Jaivl
Dikembe Mutombo
Dirk Nowitzki
Luol Deng
Manu Ginobili
Mookie Blaylock
Bill Laimbeer
Nene
Danny Granger
Tony Allen
Russell Westbrook
Coach: Rick Carlisle
Spoiler:
poopdamoop
Alonzo Mourning
Al Horford
Elgin Baylor
Sidney Moncrief
Jerry West
Yao Ming
Buck Williams
Chris Mullin
Dan Majerle
Deron Williams
Coach: Tom Thibodeau
Spoiler:
Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
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Re: All-Time non-Elite Fantasy Draft, Draft Thread
thizznation
Patrick Ewing
Bob McAdoo
Andrei Kirilenko
Ray Allen
Tim Hardaway
Marcus Camby
Otis Thorpe
Lamar Odom
Dale Ellis
Baron Davis
Coach: Larry Brown
Dr Spaceman
Amar'e Stoudemire
Dennis Rodman
Andre Iguodala
Jeff Hornacek
Steve Nash
Tyson Chandler
LaMarcus Aldridge
James Worthy
Doug Christie
Goran Dragic
Coach: George Karl
lilroddyb
Marc Gasol
Anthony Davis
Shawn Marion
Mitch Richmond
Penny Hardaway
Vlade Divac
Elton Brand
Robert Horry
Brandon Roy
Sam Cassell
Coach: Rudy Tomjanovich
Warspite
Bill Walton
Kevin Love
John Havlicek
Joe Dumars
Walt Frazier
Mel Daniels
Detlef Schrempf
Bernard King
Louie Dampier
Maurice Cheeks
Coach: Tom Izzo
owly
Bob Lanier
Karl Malone
Grant Hill
Vince Carter
Chris Paul
Shawn Kemp
Larry Nance
Marques Johnson
Eddie Jones
Terrell Brandon
Coach: Larry Bird
RSCD3_
Dwight Howard
Chris Bosh
Paul Pierce
Reggie Miller
Mark Price
Brad Miller
Serge Ibaka
Gordon Hayward
Kyle Korver
Gilbert Arenas
Coach: Stan Van Gundy
???
parsnips33
Willis Reed
Charles Barkley
Ron Artest
Glen Rice
Jason Kidd
Theo Ratliff
Jermaine O'Neal
Dominique Wilkins
Latrell Sprewell
Mike Bibby
Coach: Jerry Sloan
???
JeepCSC
Robert Parish
Rasheed Wallace
Scottie Pippen
David Thompson
Steph Curry
Ralph Sampson
Dave DeBusschere
Connie Hawkins
Dennis Johnson
Tony Parker
Coach: Tex Winter
Do we want penbeast to judge from this (since some people have written up on here but seem not to have pm-ed him)? If so someone quote him and ask nicely.
Patrick Ewing
Bob McAdoo
Andrei Kirilenko
Ray Allen
Tim Hardaway
Marcus Camby
Otis Thorpe
Lamar Odom
Dale Ellis
Baron Davis
Coach: Larry Brown
Spoiler:
Dr Spaceman
Amar'e Stoudemire
Dennis Rodman
Andre Iguodala
Jeff Hornacek
Steve Nash
Tyson Chandler
LaMarcus Aldridge
James Worthy
Doug Christie
Goran Dragic
Coach: George Karl
Spoiler:
lilroddyb
Marc Gasol
Anthony Davis
Shawn Marion
Mitch Richmond
Penny Hardaway
Vlade Divac
Elton Brand
Robert Horry
Brandon Roy
Sam Cassell
Coach: Rudy Tomjanovich
Spoiler:
Warspite
Bill Walton
Kevin Love
John Havlicek
Joe Dumars
Walt Frazier
Mel Daniels
Detlef Schrempf
Bernard King
Louie Dampier
Maurice Cheeks
Coach: Tom Izzo
Spoiler:
owly
Bob Lanier
Karl Malone
Grant Hill
Vince Carter
Chris Paul
Shawn Kemp
Larry Nance
Marques Johnson
Eddie Jones
Terrell Brandon
Coach: Larry Bird
Spoiler:
RSCD3_
Dwight Howard
Chris Bosh
Paul Pierce
Reggie Miller
Mark Price
Brad Miller
Serge Ibaka
Gordon Hayward
Kyle Korver
Gilbert Arenas
Coach: Stan Van Gundy
???
parsnips33
Willis Reed
Charles Barkley
Ron Artest
Glen Rice
Jason Kidd
Theo Ratliff
Jermaine O'Neal
Dominique Wilkins
Latrell Sprewell
Mike Bibby
Coach: Jerry Sloan
???
JeepCSC
Robert Parish
Rasheed Wallace
Scottie Pippen
David Thompson
Steph Curry
Ralph Sampson
Dave DeBusschere
Connie Hawkins
Dennis Johnson
Tony Parker
Coach: Tex Winter
Spoiler:
Do we want penbeast to judge from this (since some people have written up on here but seem not to have pm-ed him)? If so someone quote him and ask nicely.
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