What happened to Phoenix Suns Basketball?

[Revived]

I hope you realize that run and gun doesn't win championships, well for the Suns it never did. I would rather see a defensive minded team for once in my life so maybe just maybe we could finally win a championship but we never put that product on the court.

I don't think that will ever happen under Sarver. IMO he's all about run n gun because he knows its more appealing and entertaining to fans than halfcourt defense type teams. More tickets sales with an "exciting run n gun" offense.

Rumor had it that Kerr wanted defensive oriented team and finally convinced Sarver to try with Porter but unfortunately, Porter was the wrong defense minded HC to hire.

[SideSwipe]

Run and Gun needs a defensive anchor and great shooting to work. We don't have great shooting, and our defensive anchor is a 6'5 shooting guard/ small forward. Our defensive numbers the last couple months haven't been horrid the last few months, the problem is our offense took a huge nosedive after the Dragic trade. Team chemistry is terrible right now, and the effort is tough to watch sometimes. These guys are mailing it in....NO HEART!

[Bogyo]

Simmons take on grantland:
Phoenix Suns (39-40)

Tao of Dom: “Running ain’t freedom. You should know that.”

They turned last season’s delightfully entertaining, unexpectedly promising and precociously young run-and-gun Suns team into this season’s sullen, disjointed mess of a whatever-the-hell-happened-here. They turned Eric Bledsoe into a borderline max guy. They antagonized Goran Dragic by bringing in a third point guard, played him out of position for three months, took it personally when he bitched to the press, then panic-downgraded from Dragic (I voted him second-team All-NBA last season) to Brandon “You’re Gonna Have To Overpay Me So This Doesn’t Look Like a Total Disaster” Knight. They essentially flipped Dragic, Isaiah Thomas, Tyler Ennis, Miles Plumlee and that famously tasty Lakers pick (top-five protected in 2015, top-three protected in 2016 or 2017) for Knight and three non-lottery picks (Cleveland’s 2016 first-rounder and Miami’s 2017 and 2021 first-rounders).

Buried under everything: Jeff Hornacek’s mysterious free fall from “2014 Coach of the Year Candidate” to “Possessed by the Spirit of Vinny Del Negro.” No 2014-15 team blew more winnable games in dumber/unluckier/more inexplicable ways than the Suns. They were a 50-win team that somehow went .500. Then again, they STILL would have been a top-six seed in the East. Nail the lottery pick in June, sign Knight for a fair price and maybe they’re back in business. Stay positive, Suns fans. And definitely don’t read this footnote.

I can’t type this strongly enough: I absolutely HATE everything that Phoenix did. There’s just no way that the Suns are better off than they were 10 months ago. If you’re gonna deal Dragic, then keep Isaiah Thomas and that Lakers pick and don’t do the Knight deal. If you’re gonna deal Thomas, then just keep Dragic and the Lakers pick. But how do you end up with no Dragic, no Thomas and no Lakers pick? What the hell just happened?????


That's pretty much what happened.

[ATTL]

I think the Miami picks will be lottery fwiw.

[HootieRules]

I think the Miami picks will be lottery fwiw.

That's nothing but a pure guess

[bwgood77]

I think the Miami picks will be lottery fwiw.

That's nothing but a pure guess

Well it looks like we will get them in 2018 and 2021, and if Bosh comes back healthy this next year, the teams should be fairly solid next year, and probably the year after. By the 2017-18 season, Dragic and Bosh, and especially Wade if he is still there, should be on the decline. Unless they nail their pick this year and nab a superstar, they will have one of the worst young cores in the east, especially with no 1st round pick in 2016.

They were fringe playoff this year already WITH a healthy Bosh. So they would have to rely on getting some max star to join their aging core for them to be very relevant two years down the line, and they could be VERY young 6 years down the line.

But yeah, it's a pure guess. I'd bet on them having a lottery pick those years over 75-80% of the rest of the teams in the league though, so it's probably a good guess.

[HootieRules]

I think the Miami picks will be lottery fwiw.

That's nothing but a pure guess

Well it looks like we will get them in 2018 and 2021, and if Bosh comes back healthy this next year, the teams should be fairly solid next year, and probably the year after. By the 2017-18 season, Dragic and Bosh, and especially Wade if he is still there, should be on the decline. Unless they nail their pick this year and nab a superstar, they will have one of the worst young cores in the east, especially with no 1st round pick in 2016.

They were fringe playoff this year already WITH a healthy Bosh. So they would have to rely on getting some max star to join their aging core for them to be very relevant two years down the line, and they could be VERY young 6 years down the line.

But yeah, it's a pure guess. I'd bet on them having a lottery pick those years over 75-80% of the rest of the teams in the league though, so it's probably a good guess.

They have one of the best front offices in the league. History tells us they're always a free agency player. To think they just fall off in 2 years is wishful thinking.

[bwgood77]

They have one of the best front offices in the league. History tells us they're always a free agency player. To think they just fall off in 2 years is wishful thinking.

Perhaps, but they still had what you would think were two premier players this year and then Hassan Whiteside breaking out and the addition of Deng and were still fringe playoff. But the fact they signed Bosh and LeBron in one offseason is the type of thing that happens very rarely....it happened again in some respect this offseason in Cleveland but you are talking about a top 5 player of all time. That and the Shaq trade were huge moves.....if they are able to pull off something like that again with aging stars in the next 2-4 years, I'll be surprised and impressed.

[lilfishi22]

They have one of the best front offices in the league. History tells us they're always a free agency player. To think they just fall off in 2 years is wishful thinking.

Perhaps, but they still had what you would think were two premier players this year and then Hassan Whiteside breaking out and the addition of Deng and were still fringe playoff. But the fact they signed Bosh and LeBron in one offseason is the type of thing that happens very rarely....it happened again in some respect this offseason in Cleveland but you are talking about a top 5 player of all time. That and the Shaq trade were huge moves.....if they are able to pull off something like that again with aging stars in the next 2-4 years, I'll be surprised and impressed.

With a full camp and a healthy Bosh, I think they should make playoffs.

Miami as a city is a very attractive FA destination and their management (Riles in particular) has a lot of respect around the league. I don't think they'll have too many issues picking up FA's.

[Years90Suns]

When something does not work and in the course of two years we have gone from slightly bad to bad to really bad, I believe the idea should be to start from scratch.
What do we have that could be the foundation of this basketball club? Any star? Any young player that the coaches believe could be the future of the franchise?
If any, then stick to them. Warren? Goodwin? Bledsoe? Knight?

My idea would be:

- keep one of the two between Bledsoe and Knight. Get a defensive oriented, team player PG behind the one that remains with us.
- decide whether Goodwin can be our SG for the next 10 years or not. If not, we need a good player there. If yes, maybe keep Green.
- decide whether Warren can be our SF for the next 10 years or not. If not, get as good a SF as we can get. If Warren is the starter, Tucker can be coming of the bench. Marcus should be gone.
- get rid of both M&Ms. They are not team oriented players. They do not pass the ball. They do not play defense. They do not rebound well, especially Markieff, for a PF in this league. They could be bench players if we find a good starter at PF. We should try to keep Wright as a PF/C off the bench. He has no starting level in the league.
- keep Len and add a veteran center. Please, no more Randolphs, Barrons or guys of that level.

[bwgood77]

They have one of the best front offices in the league. History tells us they're always a free agency player. To think they just fall off in 2 years is wishful thinking.

Perhaps, but they still had what you would think were two premier players this year and then Hassan Whiteside breaking out and the addition of Deng and were still fringe playoff. But the fact they signed Bosh and LeBron in one offseason is the type of thing that happens very rarely....it happened again in some respect this offseason in Cleveland but you are talking about a top 5 player of all time. That and the Shaq trade were huge moves.....if they are able to pull off something like that again with aging stars in the next 2-4 years, I'll be surprised and impressed.

With a full camp and a healthy Bosh, I think they should make playoffs.

Miami as a city is a very attractive FA destination and their management (Riles in particular) has a lot of respect around the league. I don't think they'll have too many issues picking up FA's.

I don't think they will either, like Deng. But premier free agents, meaning franchise changing talents only change teams once a year or so, and the team they go to usually has to do with up n coming stars already being there giving them a chance to win. Banking on them getting a game changer in the next 3-5 years is still a long shot, even if they are one of the 5 most likely teams of doing so.

[lilfishi22]

Perhaps, but they still had what you would think were two premier players this year and then Hassan Whiteside breaking out and the addition of Deng and were still fringe playoff. But the fact they signed Bosh and LeBron in one offseason is the type of thing that happens very rarely....it happened again in some respect this offseason in Cleveland but you are talking about a top 5 player of all time. That and the Shaq trade were huge moves.....if they are able to pull off something like that again with aging stars in the next 2-4 years, I'll be surprised and impressed.

With a full camp and a healthy Bosh, I think they should make playoffs.

Miami as a city is a very attractive FA destination and their management (Riles in particular) has a lot of respect around the league. I don't think they'll have too many issues picking up FA's.

I don't think they will either, like Deng. But premier free agents, meaning franchise changing talents only change teams once a year or so, and the team they go to usually has to do with up n coming stars already being there giving them a chance to win. Banking on them getting a game changer in the next 3-5 years is still a long shot, even if they are one of the 5 most likely teams of doing so.

I disagree. Look at Milwaukee, they don't have any game changers (Greek Freak isn't there yet, neither is Parker) yet they are a playoff team. Even Boston, with their youth movement is 7th in the East. Just shows, you don't need a whole lot to make playoffs in the East.

Regarding free agency, Miami has always shown they can attract FA just by being in Miami. I think in 3 years time, they will have a changing of the guard process where Bosh and Dragic will still be in the books but will be playing next to the next up and comer who will take over the team eventually.

[bwgood77]

With a full camp and a healthy Bosh, I think they should make playoffs.

Miami as a city is a very attractive FA destination and their management (Riles in particular) has a lot of respect around the league. I don't think they'll have too many issues picking up FA's.

I don't think they will either, like Deng. But premier free agents, meaning franchise changing talents only change teams once a year or so, and the team they go to usually has to do with up n coming stars already being there giving them a chance to win. Banking on them getting a game changer in the next 3-5 years is still a long shot, even if they are one of the 5 most likely teams of doing so.

I disagree. Look at Milwaukee, they don't have any game changers (Greek Freak isn't there yet, neither is Parker) yet they are a playoff team. Even Boston, with their youth movement is 7th in the East. Just shows, you don't need a whole lot to make playoffs in the East.

Regarding free agency, Miami has always shown they can attract FA just by being in Miami. I think in 3 years time, they will have a changing of the guard process where Bosh and Dragic will still be in the books but will be playing next to the next up and comer who will take over the team eventually.

Yes, anything is possible. They may be a juggernaut at that point, especially if their #10 pick this year is a great pick. I just think there are other teams with better young players. I think they will likely be really good next year, and probably pretty good the following year, but in 2018 are probably more likely to be fringe lottery than really good, and in 2021 they are likely to have few really high picks unless they are in their 1st or 2nd years so they will have to be able to bring in a ton of premier free agents before then and nail this pick this year. I'd just take the futures of about 10 or more eastern teams in 2021 over their's.

[lilfishi22]

Yes, anything is possible. They may be a juggernaut at that point, especially if their #10 pick this year is a great pick. I just think there are other teams with better young players. I think they will likely be really good next year, and probably pretty good the following year, but in 2018 are probably more likely to be fringe lottery than really good, and in 2021 they are likely to have few really high picks unless they are in their 1st or 2nd years so they will have to be able to bring in a ton of premier free agents before then and nail this pick this year. I'd just take the futures of about 10 or more eastern teams in 2021 over their's.

I just think Riles is smart enough to not ride Wade/Bosh/Dragic until their brakes fall off. If we're talking about an Orlando or a Philadelphia, I would have much more confidence that they will stay in mediocrity and reward us with a lotto pick but not Miami. They have always had a solid front office and that's really all you need in the East.

[bwgood77]

Here's what happened to Suns basketball in 2008.

Nothing taught him more about the importance of building trust within an organization than the years he spent with Mike D'Antoni near the end of the small-ball era in Phoenix.

Early on, maybe 10-15 games into the 2007-08 season, Kerr came into D'Antoni's office after a loss and asked if there were a better way to use Amare Stoudemire offensively. Play through him in the post, maybe. Get him some easy baskets, play inside out, give the defense a different look to worry about.

In a different moment, D'Antoni might have wanted to talk about it, might even have enjoyed the philosophical debate. But he was frustrated after a loss, and not yet sure of Kerr's motives in his new role as the Suns general manager. The conversation did not go well.

"I think the circumstances, the pressure of trying to win, and prove that small ball could win ... I was probably hypersentive about it," D'Antoni says now. "It wasn't Steve's fault ... We got stale and he was looking for ways to get unstale. It happens. Sometimes when you're under a lot of pressure, things like that happen."

Kerr realized he'd gone too far on the drive home. He came to apologize the next day. They both said everything was fine. But the trust was different after that.

A few months later, when Kerr approached D'Antoni about trading for Shaquille O'Neal, communication was strained. They both were intrigued by the trade, but each had reservations that they never really talked through. Did they actually want to make such a huge change to a team that had been so close so many times? Kerr had been close enough to the Suns to know how much bad luck - the Joe Johnson injury in 2005, the Raja Bell injury in 2006, the Stoudemire and Boris Diaw suspensions in 2007 -- had played a part in Phoenix' playoff failures. Should they stay the course or make the move? Were they on the same page?

They made the trade for O'Neal and lost in the first round of the playoffs. By June, D'Antoni had left to coach the Knicks.

"Looking back on it," D'Antoni says. "I think we should've stayed the course and just tweaked things. But that's not what happened. We changed course."

Kerr learned from the experience, too. "It's actually a shame. It's a real shame that we didn't connect and work well together because he's a really good-hearted guy," Kerr says of D'Antoni. "I feel like I work well with people in general and it should have worked. But it didn't because of circumstances, because of my inexperience... there was a lot of stuff. If I had more experience I probably would have been able to pull it off."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12669 ... e-warriors

[RunDogGun]

Interesting read, and I'm sure a better way of looking at what could have been, instead of looking at the Porter signing, and how that completely changed things.

[Marz11]

This season summed up in one paragraph:

So, sure, the Suns weren’t a dysfunctional bunch, they were just plain bizarre. How else do you explain signing Isaiah Thomas, a point guard, to a 4 year, $28 million deal when you already employ two very good point guards (Goran Dragic and Eric Bledsoe)? How about your gritty, blue-collar wing stopper (P.J. Tucker) getting a “super-extreme DUI” the week after signing a 3-year, $16.5 million extension? Or Eric Bledsoe’s contract situation getting dragged out unnecessarily, thereby fostering ill will for both sides? Having a passive-aggressive shouting match (Marcus Morris and coach Jeff Hornacek) on the sidelines during a nationally televised game? Forcing the linchpin of last season’s surprising success (Dragic) further off the ball, alienating him and leading to his trade request? Failing to inbound the ball properly? Ripping your home fans (Markeiff Morris) the same night the team scored 24 points in an entire half? Your coach calling the team “soft” to the media? The symbol of last season’s rehabilitated image and reinvigorated play (Gerald Green) turning heel and publicly declaring he’s unhappy? Playing Jerel McNeal in a game when he isn’t even technically on the roster?

They’re all just random, weird occurrences, definitely not a pattern of dysfunction.

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2015/04/14/ ... witterfeed

[RunDogGun]

Many problems in that paragraph. First, we didn't employ both Goran and Bledsoe when we signed IT. The writer knows this, because he mentions the Bledsoe contract dragging for a long time. As for Markieff's timing, yes it was bad, but after many many games of having a home crowd cheering more for the opposing team, I can understand players being fed up with that. And what he said was true.

[phrazbit]

They have one of the best front offices in the league. History tells us they're always a free agency player. To think they just fall off in 2 years is wishful thinking.

LeBron isn't walking back through that door. Even the big free agent cities go through dark times.

Its an old and crappy team. Who knows where they will be in 2021, but its far more likely that they will get worse over the next few years than get better.

[NoKneeBledsoe]

Run and Gun worked!

It worked when we had good players!

All we were missing was add a defensive center next to Amare and we had rings

Ever since amare left we started sucking! Should of paid the man!