Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

[payitforward]

Why do folks think PP won't opt out? Next season is likely to be his last, so I expect he will want to chase a ring. I've been working on the assumption that he will opt out and sign a one year MLE deal with the Clips, reuniting him with Doc and Sam. I've been wondering about possible trades - PP opts in, and we trade him to the Clippers. That allows them to save the MLE for another player. Hawes fits perfectly with salary, but he is signed for 3 more years. Beyond that, they don't have any spare parts I want, or even any draft picks. Maybe PP for Barnes and a very future 1st round pick, but LA is unlikely to do that.

Next year might be his last... chance to play for half the year a game for 5 million or whatever his salary is. Would you throw a big chunk of that away?

What my man Ruzious said.

I'm often dumbstruck by the belief fans seem to cherish that NBA players are more driven by glory, or by fun, or by fame, or by anything at all, more than they are by $$.

For one thing, if they were, they'd be awfully dumb, and I don't think athletes are dumber than most people -- in general I think they're more likely to be *smarter* than most people, because whatever your physical talents you have to be smart to succeed.

Once they retire, NBA players will never again have the opportunity to earn millions and millions of dollars. Any millions they don't earn in the league, they'll never see. Are there exceptions? Sure, the guys who earn more off the floor than on it -- Lebron and a few others -- but that's it.

It's possible some team he'd prefer to play for (lets just say the Celtics) will let Pierce's agent know that if he opts out they'll pay him the same $$ he'd make here. I can't see any other reason he'd opt out.

[JAR69]

Next year might be his last... chance to play for half the year a game for 5 million or whatever his salary is. Would you throw a big chunk of that away?

What my man Ruzious said.

I'm often dumbstruck by the belief fans seem to cherish that NBA players are more driven by glory, or by fun, or by fame, or by anything at all, more than they are by $$.

For one thing, if they were, they'd be awfully dumb, and I don't think athletes are dumber than most people -- in general I think they're more likely to be *smarter* than most people, because whatever your physical talents you have to be smart to succeed.

Once they retire, NBA players will never again have the opportunity to earn millions and millions of dollars. Any millions they don't earn in the league, they'll never see. Are there exceptions? Sure, the guys who earn more off the floor than on it -- Lebron and a few others -- but that's it.

It's possible some team he'd prefer to play for (lets just say the Celtics) will let Pierce's agent know that if he opts out they'll pay him the same $$ he'd make here. I can't see any other reason he'd opt out.

Yes, but I think other factors may be stronger than the normal cash considerations here.

Money: He has made more than $190 million in his career. If PP opts out, he is likely to make at least $3 million on a one-year deal, perhaps as much as the full MLE (almost exactly equal to the salary under his option) in the right circumstances. I understand not leaving millions on the table, but I'm not sure how much the difference, if there is any, matters to PP.

Wizards: The ECF is this team's absolute ceiling, and a first or second round exit is almost certain. PP is extremely competitive. The Wizards are unlikely to make any significant off-season signings, as they are all-in for 2016/KD, meaning the team is unlikely to show significant improvement next year, PP's likely last. He signed with the Wizards on Sam's say-so, then Sam left. He has seen what it is like with Ted as the owner, EG as the GM, and Randy coaching. Even if Witt is gone, EG may remain and Ted obviously will.

Other teams/Clippers: There is a place for him on the Clippers as the starting SF or backup SF/PF. Time is running out on Chris Paul's prime, Steve Ballmer may be willing to pay a lot for a shot at a ring, and Doc/Sam are there.

If I was PP, I would demand a trade (to happen at or after the draft), or threaten to opt out. As I said, the Clippers are the most logical destination (though others may be willing to sign him for much of the MLE). If they resign DeAndre Jordan to a max deal, they won't have the full $5.3 million or so MLE, only the taxpayer one at $3.3 million or so. (I think those numbers are correct.) If I were the Clippers, I would try to swing a trade for PP so that they would get him and retain the MLE for another player.

Clippers' possible lineup:

Paul/Rivers
Redick/Crawford/CJ Wilcox
PP/Barnes (unless traded or cut)/Jordan Hamilton
Griffin/PP
Jordan/Hawes (unless traded)

Plus the MLE.

All that may put them at the hard cap, I'm not sure.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying I see your point, but I'm not sold. An early playoff exit may make it more likely PP demands a trade or opts out. We shall see.

[payitforward]

Next year might be his last... chance to play for half the year a game for 5 million or whatever his salary is. Would you throw a big chunk of that away?

What my man Ruzious said.

I'm often dumbstruck by the belief fans seem to cherish that NBA players are more driven by glory, or by fun, or by fame, or by anything at all, more than they are by $$.

For one thing, if they were, they'd be awfully dumb, and I don't think athletes are dumber than most people -- in general I think they're more likely to be *smarter* than most people, because whatever your physical talents you have to be smart to succeed.

Once they retire, NBA players will never again have the opportunity to earn millions and millions of dollars. Any millions they don't earn in the league, they'll never see. Are there exceptions? Sure, the guys who earn more off the floor than on it -- Lebron and a few others -- but that's it.

It's possible some team he'd prefer to play for (lets just say the Celtics) will let Pierce's agent know that if he opts out they'll pay him the same $$ he'd make here. I can't see any other reason he'd opt out.

Yes, but I think other factors may be stronger than the normal cash considerations here.

Money: He has made more than $190 million in his career. If PP opts out, he is likely to make at least $3 million on a one-year deal, perhaps as much as the full MLE (almost exactly equal to the salary under his option) in the right circumstances. I understand not leaving millions on the table, but I'm not sure how much the difference, if there is any, matters to PP.

Wizards: The ECF is this team's absolute ceiling, and a first or second round exit is almost certain. PP is extremely competitive. The Wizards are unlikely to make any significant off-season signings, as they are all-in for 2016/KD, meaning the team is unlikely to show significant improvement next year, PP's likely last. He signed with the Wizards on Sam's say-so, then Sam left. He has seen what it is like with Ted as the owner, EG as the GM, and Randy coaching. Even if Witt is gone, EG may remain and Ted obviously will.

Other teams/Clippers: There is a place for him on the Clippers as the starting SF or backup SF/PF. Time is running out on Chris Paul's prime, Steve Ballmer may be willing to pay a lot for a shot at a ring, and Doc/Sam are there.

If I was PP, I would demand a trade (to happen at or after the draft), or threaten to opt out. As I said, the Clippers are the most logical destination (though others may be willing to sign him for much of the MLE). If they resign DeAndre Jordan to a max deal, they won't have the full $5.3 million or so MLE, only the taxpayer one at $3.3 million or so. (I think those numbers are correct.) If I were the Clippers, I would try to swing a trade for PP so that they would get him and retain the MLE for another player.

Clippers' possible lineup:

Paul/Rivers
Redick/Crawford/CJ Wilcox
PP/Barnes (unless traded or cut)/Jordan Hamilton
Griffin/PP
Jordan/Hawes (unless traded)

Plus the MLE.

All that may put them at the hard cap, I'm not sure.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying I see your point, but I'm not sold. An early playoff exit may make it more likely PP demands a trade or opts out. We shall see.

Well argued. Except the $2m potential salary difference paid to Paul Pierce may be less significant to you than it is to Paul Pierce.

Why do you think we'd prefer a trade to an opt-out, btw? You'll have to tell me what the Clippers would send. Barnes? A pick?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Interesting thought. It would make even more sense if Pierce opts out of his 2016 year. We could draft a young stretch-four like Kevin Looney and sign Alexis Ajinca (credit to Ruzious) using a portion of the MLE to play backup center.

Our lineup next year:
PG Wall/Sessions
SG Beal/Johnson
SF Porter/Johnson
PF Humphries/Looney
C Gortat/Ajinca

That gives us one pretty young guy and one older vet at every position. We probably keep Gooden around one more year, and maybe look for a shooting guard with the BAE or our 2nd round pick.

Yeah, probably better to draft a PF since Gortat is signed longterm. Heck, even if Pierce doesn't opt-out, we can still do it and bring a guy like Looney along slowly in his first year. He might still get decent burn even with Pierce on the roster if the (hopefully new) coaching staff is smart about resting Pierce over the course of the year.

Right - and that's important because Pierce likely won't opt out. Of course, the plan had me at signing Ajinca. But maybe the best thing about trading away Nene and drafting a PF - be it Looney or Portis - is that it'd force Wittman to play the rookie PF - so he can develop and show a free agent like Durant that we have a developing young PF.

Keep contract year Nene at least until right before the trade deadline. Heck, even next year if he's an integral part of a playoff roster, ride it out with him at his best.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Paul Pierce likely wouldnt start ahead of Matt Barnes.

The Wizards need to start Porter from now on. Pierce needs to be okay with coming off the bench next season.

[nate33]

Yeah, probably better to draft a PF since Gortat is signed longterm. Heck, even if Pierce doesn't opt-out, we can still do it and bring a guy like Looney along slowly in his first year. He might still get decent burn even with Pierce on the roster if the (hopefully new) coaching staff is smart about resting Pierce over the course of the year.

Right - and that's important because Pierce likely won't opt out. Of course, the plan had me at signing Ajinca. But maybe the best thing about trading away Nene and drafting a PF - be it Looney or Portis - is that it'd force Wittman to play the rookie PF - so he can develop and show a free agent like Durant that we have a developing young PF.

Keep contract year Nene at least until right before the trade deadline. Heck, even next year if he's an integral part of a playoff roster, ride it out with him at his best.

This deal turns contract year Nene into contract year Joe Johnson. I figure that's a wash, or perhaps an advantage to us, particularly since we dump Webster's contract in the process.

Don't get me wrong. I like Nene and I think he has done a lot to help get the franchise on a winning track, but I think the team is outgrowing him. Gortat is now clearly the better player and the two don't coexist very well because of spacing issues. It's time to enter the 21st century and start spreading the floor. Exchanging Nene for a big, burly, skilled wing player would help in that goal.

[stevemcqueen1]

I could see Pierce considering retirement this summer but ultimately, I think he comes back for one more year.

He could have signed with teams like the Clippers last summer but chose us. He gets to play the role he wants here, play with Wall and Beal, gets to be in DC and do **** like meet Obama and help run basketball camps at the White House. He'll stay here if he plays next season.

[stevemcqueen1]

Right - and that's important because Pierce likely won't opt out. Of course, the plan had me at signing Ajinca. But maybe the best thing about trading away Nene and drafting a PF - be it Looney or Portis - is that it'd force Wittman to play the rookie PF - so he can develop and show a free agent like Durant that we have a developing young PF.

Keep contract year Nene at least until right before the trade deadline. Heck, even next year if he's an integral part of a playoff roster, ride it out with him at his best.

This deal turns contract year Nene into contract year Joe Johnson. I figure that's a wash, or perhaps an advantage to us, particularly since we dump Webster's contract in the process.

Don't get me wrong. I like Nene and I think he has done a lot to help get the franchise on a winning track, but I think the team is outgrowing him. Gortat is now clearly the better player and the two don't coexist very well because of spacing issues. It's time to enter the 21st century and start spreading the floor. Exchanging Nene for a big, burly, skilled wing player would help in that goal.

I think we've outgrown Nene as well. His game has never been a natural fit with Wall's and you're right that he clogs up the floor for Gortat and slows down the offense. And he's just totally stopped rebounding and never looks like he feels good for more than a couple of weeks a season. I wouldn't mind keeping him after this contract at a drastically reduced price, so long as we get a stretch 4 that could start. Wish we had Paul Millsap.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Considering the relationship Nene had with George Karl I would think the Kings would be great trade partners.

I've never been a Rudy Gay fan, but it seems to me that his game would be great with Wall's.

[hands11]

Considering the relationship Nene had with George Karl I would think the Kings would be great trade partners.

I've never been a Rudy Gay fan, but it seems to me that his game would be great with Wall's.

I would rather keep that spot open for Otto.

If anything like that gets done, it would be because Otto failed and you do it at the trade deadline. But I would be real careful who you bring in short of a player like Iggy. PP was a nice idea to add for a year. But ideally, you want some a little younger then that next year.

Time for this team to stop loading vets in front of top draft picks. Otto has to start next year.

To the idea posted about keeping Nene and resigning him cheap. I had hoped they would consider that in the past. Now I don't see it as an option. Nene needs to be gone. Something personality wise is not a good fit with him and Gortat.

Milsap would be an ideal target. But likely near impossible to get.

Amir Johnson is a UFA

Could have drafted either Morris brother.

Mike Muscala was a late pick many of us were interested in. So was Ryan Kelly. Cory Jefferson was another PF late 2nd prospect.

Put people way undervalue Gooden.. He doesn't suck. With Gortat in the pant, Gooden is fine for now as the S4 What we need is a young compliment S4. You can pick up various decent ones like Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... r-forwards

It doesn't have to be a home run. Just better and better fit.

As for Nene. After this season, I would move him for anything reasonable. I take back Derrick Williams if we can get him

[nuposse04]

So Ersan has been puting up 18-8 per36 on 55%TS and a WS/48 of .137. If we went guard with our 1st round pick, would Webster+our '16th lottery protected 1st make sense for Ersan? Or is that too much? (I'm also assuming the Durant dream is dead, as no intelligible superstar would want to play for an EG+Randy tandem).

Yes I know a lot of you don't care for him, but you don't produce those kind of numbers with no semblance of PG play and not be worth a damn.

[Ruzious]

Considering the relationship Nene had with George Karl I would think the Kings would be great trade partners.

I've never been a Rudy Gay fan, but it seems to me that his game would be great with Wall's.

I would rather keep that spot open for Otto.

If anything like that gets done, it would be because Otto failed and you do it at the trade deadline. But I would be real careful who you bring in short of a player like Iggy. PP was a nice idea to add for a year. But ideally, you want some a little younger then that next year.

Time for this team to stop loading vets in front of top draft picks. Otto has to start next year.

To the idea posted about keeping Nene and resigning him cheap. I had hoped they would consider that in the past. Now I don't see it as an option. Nene needs to be gone. Something personality wise is not a good fit with him and Gortat.

Milsap would be an ideal target. But likely near impossible to get.

Amir Johnson is a UFA

Could have drafted either Morris brother.

Mike Muscala was a late pick many of us were interested in. So was Ryan Kelly. Cory Jefferson was another PF late 2nd prospect.

Put people way undervalue Gooden.. He doesn't suck. With Gortat in the pant, Gooden is fine for now as the S4 What we need is a young compliment S4. You can pick up various decent ones like Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... r-forwards

It doesn't have to be a home run. Just better and better fit.

As for Nene. After this season, I would move him for anything reasonable. I take back Derrick Williams if we can get him

This is the expectation problem when you beat up on lousy teams - some end up believing you can start next season with a Drew Gooden at the 4. He has had a couple of good games, but on the season, he has a 43% efg and a 12 PER - which are lousy numbers for bigs. Not to mention that he's old. There are reasons he was out of the NBA for a while.

Btw, Amir Johnson will cost a lot more than a Jonas Jerebko.

[TGW]

Gooden starting eh? Going from Nene to Gooden as a starter...please tell me that isn't the plan. PLEASE!

[Dat2U]

hands11 gonna be hands11. Gooden at starter is a great idea until it's not. In which case it never was but he never said that or you misunderstood the point that was being made.

Either way this has been already discussed and you may want to read the past posts on this issue to get caught up.

[FAH1223]

hands, we also don't have cap space for any of those PFs you want us to get

[Induveca]

Cousins is apparently available Twitterverse is exploding. Karl declared all players trade able, Cousins tweeting it's a "dirty business". He hasn't spoken to Karl since declared out for season.

Beal/Porter/Gortat/2017 pick for Cousins/McLemore? Done done done.

[thricethefun]

Cousins is apparently available Twitterverse is exploding. Karl declared all players trade able, Cousins tweeting it's a "dirty business". He hasn't spoken to Karl since declared out for season.

Beal/Porter/Gortat/2017 pick for Cousins/McLemore? Done done done.

Cousins is overrated (his team has never sniffed the playoffs in the 5 years he's been there) and has attitude issues. That's giving up way too much for him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wall is overrated compared to Cousins, who I think is underrated.

Attitude issues? He played on well Team USA after Wall and Beal got cut. He hasn't missed a game this season for disciplinary reasons. He's had consecutive triple doubles including assists (Great teammates pass the ball). He's had three straight games with more than 20 rebounds. (Rebounds require effort).

No. Some people repeat tired narratives because they are uninformed or determined to stay a hater. Cousins is an all star and a terrific player. People love Kevin Love and his team never sniffed playoffs.

Offer Nene, Pierce, this year's first and two future firsts. Keep Wall, Beal, and Porter. Keep Gortat.

Overnight the Wizards would be a 60-win team with that core.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Cousins is apparently available Twitterverse is exploding. Karl declared all players trade able, Cousins tweeting it's a "dirty business". He hasn't spoken to Karl since declared out for season.

Beal/Porter/Gortat/2017 pick for Cousins/McLemore? Done done done.

Too much.

I think you undervalue Porter and Gortat. I would keep Beal, too, if the Kings are adamant to make a deal.I say keep Beal and Porter. Give up 2015, 2017, and 2019 firsts.

Commit the next five seasons to Wall/Cousins. Give up picks but try to nurture the young talent.

Keep Gortat because Boogie Cousins can play a lot of minutes at PF and because Gortat is a calming influence.

(I would probably trade Beal before Porter since contract year is approaching.)

[hands11]

hands11 gonna be hands11. Gooden at starter is a great idea until it's not. In which case it never was but he never said that or you misunderstood the point that was being made.

Either way this has been already discussed and you may want to read the past posts on this issue to get caught up.

Cute. Well not really. How about you stop with the BS. Posting the same childish lie over and over doesn't make it a truth.

As usual, people like you and TWG are twisted what my point was by taking a piece of it and overly magnifying it into something that doesn't represent my position. How about commenting on the post, not the poster. Or don't comment at all.

Your post contributed nothing to the debate about the team and was only a post promote a smear about me which say more about you then anything else. And you post is a lie but I guess you feel if you post it enough times it will stick. Clearly you are just trying to troll me. Which I doubt is what the mods want for the board. Actually they have started the opposite. Which you are well aware of.

I said move Nene and add a young piece(s) that are S4 type along with Gooden. I didn't say trade Nene and go into next season with Gooden as the only S4 and start him.

I listed a bunch of targets.

Who starts wasn't even mentioned. But whoever we add, I would expect them to play 25-30 mins. Who start is about line ups. Hell, Perkins started for OKC but he wasn't the one getting the most minutes. If you read something into what I wrote that wasn't there or I wasn't clear out it, then ask for me to clarify. Like I just did right here.