Is Hornacek the problem?

Revived · Post #401 » by **Revived** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:47 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/588478458084335616[/tweet]

When will the coach himself actually start taking responsibility instead of just blaming everything else?

nevetsov · Post #402 » by **nevetsov** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:56 am

SF88 wrote:
nevetsov wrote:Knight did prove that he could put a team of youngsters on his back and carry them into playoff contention. Sure, it was in the east, but it's more than Bled has shown from a leadership perspective. I think you guys might be right about McD going all in for him. But then what becomes of Bledsoe?

Trade him to the Kings (Vivek does this to please Cousins) for Mclemore + picks?

If Bledsoe really is besties with Cousins, I could definitely see SAC pulling the trigger on a trade to keep Cousins appeased. A lineup of:

Bledsoe
McLemore
Gay
??
Cousins

Could be pretty good. I'd be happy with Collison (to back up Knight) and their pick.

kennydorglas · Post #403 » by **kennydorglas** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:25 pm

This is really weird, just compare this w/ the 76ers offense

And they have ZERO talent, playing w/ D-Leaguers all year long.
Why Brett Brown can make this stupid kids to play an all-around offense and somehow Hornacek cant?
Why we have an ISO/stagnant offense without a prolific scorer?
What's going on with this team? They dont respect Hornacek? Because he was preaching for more ball/people movement ALL YEAR LONG and nobody gave a ****.
There's something really wrong happening here.

Revived · Post #404 » by **Revived** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:03 pm

I think if a coach like Scott Brooks can get fired then Hornacek isn't above it either.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #405 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:38 am

If Hornacek does go at some point, I'd be interested in seeing Longabardi get some head coach time.

The last defensive orientated coach we had was Hunter and that was a short disaster. Nobody from the top the bottom wanted to put defense first, and that hasn't changed since. I think there needs to be a philosophical change to put championship blueprint basketball first ahead of attractive product selling.

Post #406 » by **batsmasher** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:06 am

kennydorglas wrote:And they have ZERO talent, playing w/ D-Leaguers all year long.
Why Brett Brown can make this stupid kids to play an all-around offense and somehow Hornacek cant?
Why we have an ISO/stagnant offense without a prolific scorer?
What's going on with this team? They dont respect Hornacek? Because he was preaching for more ball/people movement ALL YEAR LONG and nobody gave a ****.
There's something really wrong happening here.

Expectations. Philly are a young team with absolutely no expectations and that creates a hell of a lot of freedom for both the coach and the players.

This team believed they were a playoff contender. Suddenly everyone wants to be "the leader", everyone wants to prove their worth. Y'know what that does to an offense? Everyone becomes selfish. Everyone thinks this is "their team" that they can take to the playoffs. The true demise of this team is the fact there is such an even talent pool. There is no clear #1 player. Instead you have Kieff, Bled, BK all competing to be "the guy", the #1. This is only inflated by the fact that Kieff and Bled and BK are all to some extent low IQ ballers.

And where does Horny sit in this? He sits powerless, in part, waiting for this team to grow up. Watching the team go through growing pains.

Just remember, Horny has the pedigree. He has the success on the court and off the court. He's been credited with significantly helping the likes of Matthews and Hayward. What do the players on this team have? Jack s***. Nothing. Nada.

MrMiyagi · Post #407 » by **MrMiyagi** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:06 pm

SF88 wrote:I think if a coach like Scott Brooks can get fired then Hornacek isn't above it either.

Bring in Scottie

Cutter · Post #408 » by **Cutter** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:05 am

Just don't hire Dan Majerle as coach.

Post #409 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:33 am

They won't fire Hornacek, but if it did happen it would be a mistake. The fact is, successful teams have continuity or superstars or both. We have all young guys. Hornacek is being penalized for overachieving in year one, and then the team just had bad chemistry without the bread and butter of Dragic with Frye (and his vet leadership), and adding players and removing players all season, and then when Knight came in he got injured and we played even younger with raw guys.

We have a young GM making mistakes and learning and a coach making mistakes and learning...more changes just isn't going to be a quick fix, and an experienced coach would have been terribly frustrated with the makeup of our roster this year and likely going forward.

Post #410 » by **lilfishi22** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:10 am

bwgood77 wrote:They won't fire Hornacek, but if it did happen it would be a mistake. The fact is, successful teams have continuity or superstars or both. We have all young guys. Hornacek is being penalized for overachieving in year one, and then the team just had bad chemistry without the bread and butter of Dragic with Frye (and his vet leadership), and adding players and removing players all season, and then when Knight came in he got injured and we played even younger with raw guys.

We have a young GM making mistakes and learning and a coach making mistakes and learning...more changes just isn't going to be a quick fix, and an experienced coach would have been terribly frustrated with the makeup of our roster this year and likely going forward.

100% Agreed. Firing Hornacek means FO is looking for a scapegoat. Did Hornacek contribute to the down year? Sure, but so did many many other factors. To fire Hornacek, playing it like he was the sole reason why we were bad and that we can expect success now, would be dishonest and is a terrible look for the front office.

letsgosuns · Post #411 » by **letsgosuns** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:48 pm

More reports have come out today that Tom Thibodeau is expected to be fired after this season. http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/04/thib ... lieve.html If that is true, I am all for getting him to be the Suns main assistant or firing Hornacek and replacing Hornacek with Thibodeau. I cannot remember the Suns ever having a coach that was 100% defense first and I would love to see it happen. Thibodeau has done such a great job every year with the Bulls even though they have had so many injury problems including their best player and MVP Derrick Rose missing two seasons. Rose played sparingly this season and still the Bulls were a top team.

I think Hornacek is soft and I never even thought he did all that great a job last year. I consistently questioned and disagreed with his end of game lineups and wondered what he was doing. That 48 win season was more of a culmination of several players having the best years of their careers rather than Hornacek's doing. Three guys played far better than they are last year in Dragic, Green, and Plumlee, and even Bledsoe looked like an all star the first half of last season. This season was followed up by some of the worst coaching mistakes I have seen a coach do.

I was never a big D'antoni fan because I thought he neglected to play a bench, did not teach defense, and he did not like to play big men unless they could shoot outside. However he still coached the team with fire and passion and backed all of his players and the team seemed to believe in him. Even Shaq said D'antoni was one of the only coaches he knew that he believed could lead a team to a championship. Then Gentry came in and I loved him and was extremely disappointed he was fired. Now I watch Hornacek and I truly think he looks embarrassing out there. Half the time he is smiling or laughing when the team is playing awful. He rarely complains to officials and most of the time I legitimately think what the hell are you doing coach. I would not replace him with just any random person but I absolutely would replace him with Thibodeau. Defense wins championships and the Suns have never played any and it is about time the organization hires a coach that is known for it. I am sure every Suns fan would forget about run n' gun if the team turns into a defensive juggernaut and hangs a championship banner or two from the rafters in the next few years.

Frank Lee · Post #412 » by **Frank Lee** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:07 am

Imagine the reaction of Thibs to the Cusmo tirade ? Blood would have been spilled.

Its a step up IMO.

Damkac · Post #413 » by **Damkac** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:18 pm

Thibodeau won't change team with 3 good defenders into a defensive juggernaut

Revived · Post #414 » by **Revived** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:22 am

Alex Len with a coach like Thibs would be amazing.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #415 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:16 am

You could argue we have better defensive players than Atlanta, man for man.

We improved our D-Rating by 20 points for a stretch.

It's 90% attitude and coaching emphasis.

letsgosuns · Post #416 » by **letsgosuns** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:22 am

Damkac wrote:Thibodeau won't change team with 3 good defenders into a defensive juggernaut

I was imagining him completely remaking the team to his liking and getting rid of all the players that refuse to buy in.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #417 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:36 am

Chances of Sarver hiring a coach whose presentation includes having basketball games with 40 points less?

Puff · Post #418 » by **Puff** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:29 am

letsgosuns wrote:More reports have come out today that Tom Thibodeau is expected to be fired after this season. http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/04/thib ... lieve.html If that is true, I am all for getting him to be the Suns main assistant or firing Hornacek and replacing Hornacek with Thibodeau. I cannot remember the Suns ever having a coach that was 100% defense first and I would love to see it happen. Thibodeau has done such a great job every year with the Bulls even though they have had so many injury problems including their best player and MVP Derrick Rose missing two seasons. Rose played sparingly this season and still the Bulls were a top team.

I think Hornacek is soft and I never even thought he did all that great a job last year. I consistently questioned and disagreed with his end of game lineups and wondered what he was doing. That 48 win season was more of a culmination of several players having the best years of their careers rather than Hornacek's doing. Three guys played far better than they are last year in Dragic, Green, and Plumlee, and even Bledsoe looked like an all star the first half of last season. This season was followed up by some of the worst coaching mistakes I have seen a coach do.

I was never a big D'antoni fan because I thought he neglected to play a bench, did not teach defense, and he did not like to play big men unless they could shoot outside. However he still coached the team with fire and passion and backed all of his players and the team seemed to believe in him. Even Shaq said D'antoni was one of the only coaches he knew that he believed could lead a team to a championship. Then Gentry came in and I loved him and was extremely disappointed he was fired. Now I watch Hornacek and I truly think he looks embarrassing out there. Half the time he is smiling or laughing when the team is playing awful. He rarely complains to officials and most of the time I legitimately think what the hell are you doing coach. I would not replace him with just any random person but I absolutely would replace him with Thibodeau. Defense wins championships and the Suns have never played any and it is about time the organization hires a coach that is known for it. I am sure every Suns fan would forget about run n' gun if the team turns into a defensive juggernaut and hangs a championship banner or two from the rafters in the next few years.

TheBledShow · Post #419 » by **TheBledShow** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:17 pm

Mostly on McD and Babby. Suns needed a floor spreader at the 4 even Hornaseck preached the importance of Frye in off season, Gm didnt fit a team around Hornys style. Young gm and a young coach. Should fire Babby so we can get some experience in the middle of dem...... Lon is not getting it done as the president of basketball operations and he was way to full of himself with Hornaseck and the suns front office he thought the Suns could use 3 pgs and win alot of games but boy was her wrong!

TheBledShow · Post #420 » by **TheBledShow** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:20 pm

One could argue the Suns had the personale to let players fit nicely into there roles, guys like Dragic and Bledsoe having all the spacing they want with Frye and PJ camping in the corner..... Also Isaiah and Green early taking Gorans minutes. I think if we would of kept the same core together, maybe upgrade at the SF since there all sort of the same. But idk.... Suns defense wasnt the same either, and you can point that to how awful Kieff is on defense and the mis matches Frye could create along with how good Ish was on d when needed!