Leap Year - The Kemba Walker Thread III

[Braggins]

Who is going to hand us talent at the weakest position in the league for anything outside of MKG/Zeller/Vonleh?

If we don't let Biz walk and al and Hendo opt in, where do we find any cap space to sign a SG?

Yes spacing is our weakness (obviously) but Kemba who shoots 5-3PA a game for 31 percent from deep is a huge part of that problem.

Any SG we could draft at #9 like Oubre will probably be ready to produce when Kemba is 28/29 and heading for a new contract...

His deal (even with the new cap coming) is still overpaid for a guy who is a chucker who can't even shoot 40 percent.

In regards to MKG, I always knew he would learn how to shoot (been called a homer for it to) and there is a massive difference between 19/20 year old MKG improving his game and 25/26 year old Kemba improving his.

What exactly is Kemba's skillset by the way?

Please enlighten me on what exactly Kemba does do, that shows he has upside left in him?

We aren't contending next season even if we trade Kemba. We don't necessarily have to fix the SG position by next season. If Al opts in we are likely going to suck again regardless and if he opts out we will have plenty of cap room to sign a SG. We will have tons of cap in 2016 either way.

Oubre is the least NBA ready of any wing prospect in our range. Hezonja could easily be productive in a year or two. Trading
Al/Lance is also a possibility.

Kemba's deal isn't the albatross you seem to be making it out to be. 12 million a year is basically 3rd option money given the cap increase that is going to occur in the next two years. He is not going to limit our ability to sign free agents or resign any of our young guys.

Also, Kemba turned 24 like 3 months ago and you've literally been talking about him like he is 25-26 the last couple pages. I know I am a clueless homer for pointing that out, like when I pointed out that he wasn't 5'10, but it is true. I'm sorry.

As far as Kemba's upside, he is one of the absolute quickest and fastest players in the league and one of the best ball handlers. He has been an above average defender (not this year admittedly, but the ability is still there) and rebounder for his position. He has great intangibles and work ethic. His playmaking isn 't great but it isn't the disaster you make it out to be. He has shown some potential in that regard. He averaged well over 7 assists after the all-star break last season. He'll never be great in that regard, but he can be competent, which is really all you need. For example, he averages about the same amount of assists as Tony Parker, He has his flaws. He has plenty of things he needs to improve. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of being a good player.

OK so since we aren't contending then we should be perfectly happy with being mediocre?

Should we just let Kemba continue to do his best AI impersonation and shoot us out of games?

Hezonja might not be available at our pick and even if he is, he's one of the biggest unknowns in this draft, which teenage Euro was NBA ready in history also? He'll need at least a few seasons.

Who care what the cap is doing in 2016? Kemba will be halfway through his contract by the time the cap has fully risen and it will impact our FA flexibility for those said 2 years.

In regards to Kemba's age, tomorrow is our last game of the season, Kemba will be 25 during next season...Should I talk in regards to the season just passed or the FUTURE we are actually talking about?

Also I never said he was 5'10...ever, so I'm not sure why you'd even bring that up?

Kemba is so quick he can't even get past a defender without a screen from Biz and what good is his handle when he can't finish at the rim and all he does is dribble the air out of the ball, pass to someone in a worse position just to get the ball back or do 5 crossovers before chucking up ill advised, off balance mid range shots?

Somehow he makes the worst and least efficient shot in basketball even worse and less efficient, it's an achievement in it's own right.

Kemba looks like he's not even trying on defense and he's always been pesky but average in that regard, he's now below average heading into the terrible tier.

Also in regards to his intangibles, please explain exactly what they are?

Do these alleged intangibles make up for his putrid play for 75 percent of his 4 seasons in the league?

His playmaking is an absolute disaster and he is one of the worse playmaking points in the entire league and he's selfish to boot.

Also putting him and TP in the same sentence is a laugh, TP doesn't even dominate the ball to the extent of Kemba and Manu has always been the de facto point of that team...also even if they do average the same amount of assists, the fact one guy shoots 38 percent and the other shoots 50 for his whole career.

Wow... I don't have the energy/motivation to even begin trying to respond to this. I really hope you get what you want.

[Elden Payton]

If you won't even justify it with a response then don't even bother ever again, because I always take the time to reply to people's questions about my OPINION.

Also, I don't claim my OPINION as fact but it's what I believe and I'm not ashamed of it.

[Braggins]

Can someone tell me one thing Walker is good to elite at?

Really, you can't think of one thing he is good at?

He has a good crossover. He was good defensively last year. That went downhill big time this year. Just a wash for him this year other then December. I think he might have a big time year next season, but if he doesn't. ....

I hope he has a big season next year or this board will devolve into absolute chaos. I can't even make any judgements about next season until I see how this off-season plays out. There are so many things that need to be addressed and many things could go terribly wrong.

[Braggins]

If you won't even justify it with a response then don't even bother ever again, because I always take the time to reply to people's questions about my OPINION.

Also, I don't claim my OPINION as fact but it's what I believe and I'm not ashamed of it.

I'm sorry. I know I have an abrasive personality at times, but I really didn't mean to disrespect you or anything with that post. I've literally just lost the enthusiasm/desire to really give adequate responses when it comes to discussing Kemba. I feel like I've been having the same arguments about certain aspects of his game over and over and over again (not necessarily with you) and I just don't have it in me. I don't know why I ever even post about him because this is always where I end up anymore. Occasionally, I'll feel like I have something relevant to say, but within a couple posts I'm right back to just wanting to not talk about it anymore. I'm starting to get like that with the team in general. Its been a rough season. But anyways, I didn't mean to come off as dismissive, but I completely understand how you would take it that way. I'll try not to get involved in any more discussions that I know I'll just end up bailing on.

[Elden Payton]

If you won't even justify it with a response then don't even bother ever again, because I always take the time to reply to people's questions about my OPINION.

Also, I don't claim my OPINION as fact but it's what I believe and I'm not ashamed of it.

I'm sorry. I know I have an abrasive personality at times, but I really didn't mean to disrespect you or anything with that post. I've literally just lost the enthusiasm/desire to really give adequate responses when it comes to discussing Kemba. I feel like I've been having the same arguments about certain aspects of his game over and over and over again (not necessarily with you) and I just don't have it in me. I don't know why I ever even post about him because this is always where I end up anymore. Occasionally, I'll feel like I have something relevant to say, but within a couple posts I'm right back to just wanting to not talk about it anymore.

I really respect your posts and you as a poster Braggins, we agree on many things and unfortunately really just disagree in regards to Kemba.

I too am abrasive at times and I do apologise (sincerely) for it, and likewise, I get frustrated with these debates about Kemba also.

I admit that I hesitate to even make comment about Kemba, but I then realise that discussion is the whole point of forums on the interwebz anyway.

I desperately want Kemba to be a success and lead this franchise to glory, but unfortunately I can't see it.

I desperately want something to be proud of as a Charlotte fan.

[Braggins]

If you won't even justify it with a response then don't even bother ever again, because I always take the time to reply to people's questions about my OPINION.

Also, I don't claim my OPINION as fact but it's what I believe and I'm not ashamed of it.

I'm sorry. I know I have an abrasive personality at times, but I really didn't mean to disrespect you or anything with that post. I've literally just lost the enthusiasm/desire to really give adequate responses when it comes to discussing Kemba. I feel like I've been having the same arguments about certain aspects of his game over and over and over again (not necessarily with you) and I just don't have it in me. I don't know why I ever even post about him because this is always where I end up anymore. Occasionally, I'll feel like I have something relevant to say, but within a couple posts I'm right back to just wanting to not talk about it anymore.

I really respect your posts and you as a poster Braggins, we agree on many things and unfortunately really just disagree in regards to Kemba.

I too am abrasive at times and I do apologise (sincerely) for it, and likewise, I get frustrated with these debates about Kemba also.

I admit that I hesitate to even make comment about Kemba, but I then realise that discussion is the whole point of forums on the interwebz anyway.

I desperately want Kemba to be a success and lead this franchise to glory, but unfortunately I can't see it.

I desperately want something to be proud of as a Charlotte fan.

Yeah, we are basically on the exact same page with almost everything except Kemba. I really do understand peoples disappointment with him and I agree with most of his perceived weaknesses, but he has too much going for him imo to not at least have a decent chance of putting it together and becoming a pretty good player. My main disagreement with people about him is his perceived selfishness. I've seen him defer to others or take on more of a playmaking role too many times at every level of his career to think he is just selfish and chucking because that is who he is. He is the type of player that just wants to win and if his team gets desperate and no one else can or will step up, you can bet your ass he is going to be out there trying to make something happen, even if it results in him being perceived as a chucker. I think he has just lost trust in most of his teammates this year and has given into the frustration of the season. I have never seen him look so disinterested and disconnected (this is by far the worst I've ever seen him play)That doesn't excuse him playing the way he has the last month or so, but I also don't think that it is a long term issue. He does have some legit long term issues, but I don't think selfish play or effort are general problems for him. He is in over his head as a first option and he still needs to improve his shot selection and knowing when to attack and when to defer. He also needs to learn how to run an offense better, but I'm certain he can learn and I blame that largely on our crappy player development. None of our guys really have a clue what they should be doing.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I'll agree that Kemba isn't a selfish player overall and that he's willing to defer to others a good bit. The problem comes when, for whatever reason, he gets into that "hero mode" where he stops doing all that and essentially is looking mostly for his own shot.

[Braggins]

He struggles with his shooting consistency when he is looking to be a playmaker and he misses too many assist opportunities when he is focusing on a being a scorer. He hasn't been able to do both well at the same time.

I definitely think it would help some if we had more structure and a plan on offense and didn't rely on one player free lancing so much. This makes things difficult for all our guards imo, not just Kemba. The roster construction also doesn't help. Seriously, look at the shooting percentages for our PG's and SG's that played relevant minutes this season:

Gerald Henderson - 43.5/32.6
Brian Roberts - 39.3/32.6
Mo Williams - 39/33.7
Kemba Walker - 38.5/30.5
Lance Stephenson - 37.7/17.1
Gary Neal - 35.9/29.3
PJ Hairston - 32.3/30.1

That is seriously outrageous. I know we didn't exactly have the best group of shooters on our team, but there is no way anyone is going to convince me that all those players are just that bad at shooting. When you compare that to what each player was shooting before playing in this system you'll see that they all saw a drop in efficiency and most have experienced major drops. Lance's FG and 3pt percentages went down a combined 31% from last season. Mo and Neal are both close to 40% from deep from their career and they shot 34% and 29%. Hendo was our most efficient guard at 43.5% and he was our only guard to shoot over 40% from the field. He was also our second most efficient 3-point shooter. I just don't see how it is fair to single out Kemba and place all the blame on him, or act like his playmaking is such a disaster that it caused our offense to function THAT poorly. It takes many levels of overall team dysfunction to cause something like that.

[BeesWax]

He struggles with his shooting consistency when he is looking to be a playmaker and he misses too many assist opportunities when he is focusing on a being a scorer. He hasn't been able to do both well at the same time.

I definitely think it would help some if we had more structure and a plan on offense and didn't rely on one player free lancing so much. This makes things difficult for all our guards imo, not just Kemba. The roster construction also doesn't help. Seriously, look at the shooting percentages for our PG's and SG's that played relevant minutes this season:

Gerald Henderson - 43.5/32.6
Brian Roberts - 39.3/32.6
Mo Williams - 39/33.7
Kemba Walker - 38.5/30.5
Lance Stephenson - 37.7/17.1
Gary Neal - 35.9/29.3
PJ Hairston - 32.3/30.1

That is seriously outrageous. I know we didn't exactly have the best group of shooters on our team, but there is no way anyone is going to convince me that all those players are just that bad at shooting. When you compare that to what each player was shooting before playing in this system you'll see that they all saw a drop in efficiency and most have experienced major drops. Lance's FG and 3pt percentages went down a combined 31% from last season. Mo and Neal are both close to 40% from deep from their career and they shot 34% and 29%. Hendo was our most efficient guard at 43.5% and he was our only guard to shoot over 40% from the field. He was also our second most efficient 3-point shooter. I just don't see how it is fair to single out Kemba and place all the blame on him, or act like his playmaking is such a disaster that it caused our offense to function THAT poorly. It takes many levels of overall team dysfunction to cause something like that.

Even with Henderson being our best he was down in both from his year before Clifford. Our offense has been toxic to our guards this year. We need to entirely restructure our offense and then we can see who is good and who is not. We currently play so poorly from those positions across the board it is hard to tell who is bad and who is a product of the "system" we run.

[Elden Payton]

I think it's a good idea to look at those players FG percentage before playing with or next to Kemba.

Also, if I were his team mates I would have in fact lost faith and trust in Kemba instead of the other way around.

Just how I see it.

[BeesWax]

I think it's a good idea to look at those players FG percentage before playing with or next to Kemba.

Also, if I were his team mates I would have in fact lost faith and trust in Kemba instead of the other way around.

Just how I see it.

Henderson did fine with Kemba pre Clifford. Hard to blame one player for an entire group falling flat. Blaming Kemba is insane at this point. Until we run an offense that anyone can excel in I am not sure we can blame anyone.

[CablexDeadpool]

Hornets have had horrendous roster construction. It is like Hornets actively went out of their way to find a way to get players that can't shoot.

Kemba Walker, if he had a good coach and a good gm that together had a vision or a philosophy of basketball could've made Kemba Walker in the vein of Tony Parker/Jeff Teague/Ty Lawson.


Not an amazing shooter, but fast, handle the ball and move the ball around. Kemba Walker could be one of the top PGs in the league.

Instead for some odd reason, Hornets have gathered the biggest collection of non-floor spacers I have ever seen that play significant minutes

MKG, Gerald Henderson,Jeff Taylor, Lance Stephenson, Ramon Sessions - all have played for the Hornets and with Kemba on the perimeter.

Throughout the years since Kemba Walker have arrived, it's been non shooter after non shooter after non shooter and people expect a player like Kemba make use of it. A PG is gonna have the ball in his hands majority of the time, if nobody can shoot, he gonna end up the with the ball at the end of shot clocks.

Teams don't have to guard anybody against the Hornets, they don't have closeout, they don't have to extend themselves to the 3 point line.

Kemba needs space, Kemba needs to able to go one on one, Kemba needs player movement. He needs to be traded or there needs to be a new coach and GM.

[Robot Rock]

Some of the people in here must have some major vision issues, or they know nothing about basketball. Kemba is not a chucker, but he trusts himself more than his teammates when it comes to shooting and so does the FO. Kemba has elite quickness, speed and is an above-average defender and an excellent rebounder for a PG. He needs a player beside him to which he can defer. It's no coincidence that the only year he had that (last year), we made the playoffs.

The blind Kemba hate in this board has officially reached a level that can safely be called disgusting. I'm just about done posting here, because it's not worth constantly arguing with people when nothing can change their opinion. And that's fine. But to place the blame on the hardest worker on this team aside from the somehow-absolved-from-all-blame-RealGM-God MKG is incredibly stupid.

Kemba's a good player. He would've been an All-Star had he not gotten hurt. Even a fringe All-Star is a very good player, and he fits that bill.

[Elden Payton]

The irony is that I think that the people who can look at Kemba's game without the emotional attachment to him, can actually see the forest from the trees, meaning they aren't blind at all.

The posters who ignore all logic on this, are the ones who call others blind...

Also, there is no way a 17ppg player who shoots less than 40 percent, and averages 5 assists will be an all-star from the PG spot.

It's hilarious that using both the eye test and statistics show that Kemba just isn't that helpful for us winning games of basketball but if you see it you must be blind...

[fatlever]

Note to self: avoid this thread for the next 6 months. Only come here if there is a post that has been flagged for moderation.

[Liver_Pooty]

Note to self: avoid this thread for the next 6 months. Only come here if there is a post that has been flagged for moderation.

Lol. Probably going to be a lot of flaggin' going on.

[catch20two]

Hornets have had horrendous roster construction. It is like Hornets actively went out of their way to find a way to get players that can't shoot.

Kemba Walker, if he had a good coach and a good gm that together had a vision or a philosophy of basketball could've made Kemba Walker in the vein of Tony Parker/Jeff Teague/Ty Lawson.


Not an amazing shooter, but fast, handle the ball and move the ball around. Kemba Walker could be one of the top PGs in the league.

Instead for some odd reason, Hornets have gathered the biggest collection of non-floor spacers I have ever seen that play significant minutes

MKG, Gerald Henderson,Jeff Taylor, Lance Stephenson, Ramon Sessions - all have played for the Hornets and with Kemba on the perimeter.

Throughout the years since Kemba Walker have arrived, it's been non shooter after non shooter after non shooter and people expect a player like Kemba make use of it. A PG is gonna have the ball in his hands majority of the time, if nobody can shoot, he gonna end up the with the ball at the end of shot clocks.

Teams don't have to guard anybody against the Hornets, they don't have closeout, they don't have to extend themselves to the 3 point line.

Kemba needs space, Kemba needs to able to go one on one, Kemba needs player movement. He needs to be traded or there needs to be a new coach and GM.

Who are you you? Where do you come from? Shame on you for using logic. We're not used to that around here when it come to Kemba unless you're a Kemba homer or Uconn fan. I like Kemba and wanna keep him around but at this point I'm so tired of arguing a case for him that I wouldn't mind trading him for a run of the mill PG as long as we finally upgrade the wing position with a 3pt threat that can score at least 15ppg or a scoring big that can put up at least 15ppg without stagnating our offense.

[yosemiteben]

I like Kemba and wanna keep him around...

[StitchJones]

I think Kemba is who he is by now. He may improve slightly or with better talent, but he will always be an inefficient scorer and poor overall finisher. He will never be a great facilitator, and with today's big, athletic point guards, he will continue to get abused on the defensive end. I was hoping we could still trade him at some point during his contract, but I fear it's just too steep to get anything good in return. I understand Clifford, Cho and all like his personality and work ethic, but if you don't have it, then sometimes it doesn't matter how much you work at it, or how great of a team mate you are.

[HornetJail]

Note to self: avoid this thread for the next 6 months. Only come here if there is a post that has been flagged for moderation.

Is it possible to hide threads? If that's possible, I'd do that till next season