Leap Year - The Kemba Walker Thread III

[Liver_Pooty]

I think hes going to have a hell of a year. Im going to stick by that until he proves me wrong next season. He has to have the biggest chip on his shoulder in the history of the world after that season.

Time will tell.

[HornetJail]

My stance has been consistent lately. I want Kemba traded for the sake of 90% of our fans. I think he's a undersized chucker that isn't a traditional PG in the sense of pure passing but I think he's a competitive leader that could take this team somewhere at the same time. I can't help it if I try to see the Kemba debate from both sides nowadays to avoid a lot conflict. He's a polarizing figure that shouldn't be the #1 option for any team expecting to go past the 1st round. There you have it.

The bolded part is the reason we suck. When Al isn't fully healthy, Kemba doesn't have a guy next to him that would score 15ppg on a good team. Hell, other than Mo, who did most of his scoring with Kemba injured, Al is the only option Kemba has. Wasn't it a general consensus up until a few weeks ago that Kemba would be an above average starting PG as a legit 2nd or 3rd scoring option instead of the only option?

[yosemiteben]

I think hes going to have a hell of a year. Im going to stick by that until he proves me wrong next season. He has to have the biggest chip on his shoulder in the history of the world after that season.

Time will tell.

Agree. You won't find me arguing about him too much, but this is how I feel. I think it'd be foolish to trade him at this point.

[Braggins]

This debate has been a lot more balanced than usual. Kind of unexpected, but really refreshing.

The sad thing to me is that Kemba was actually average in terms of efficiency compared to our overall guard play. I posted the shooting percentages for our guards a few pages ago and we literally only had one guard out of like the seven that played meaningful minutes that shot over 40%. It was kind of shocking and worse than I expected it to be when I started to look into it. PJ, Neal, and Lance all shot significantly worse and Mo only shot .5% better. I don't know how anyone can deny the effect that the teams dysfunction has on all our guards. Basically all our guards had career worst shooting years. I'm not saying that in a better system Kemba would all of sudden become super efficient, but at the same time I don't really expect any of our ballhandlers to excel in this system with this roster and I don't think he is inherently as inefficient as he was this season. He didn't shoot any worse than our other guards (exception Hendo lol) despite having way more offensive responsibility and being our bailout option most of the year. I'm not going to bash Kemba just like I don't bash Lance, Mo, Roberts, or whoever about poor shooting. I want to see what some of those guys, especially Lance and Kemba, can do under better circumstances before I condemn any of them for this years failure.

[Liver_Pooty]

This debate has been a lot more balanced than usual. Kind of unexpected, but really refreshing.

The sad thing to me is that Kemba was actually average in terms of efficiency compared to our overall guard play. I posted the shooting percentages for our guards a few pages ago and we literally only had one guard out of like the seven that played meaningful minutes that shot over 40%. PJ, Neal, and Lance all shot significantly worse and Mo only shot .5% better. I don't know how anyone can deny the effect that the teams dysfunction has on all our guards. Basically all our guards had career worst shooting years. I'm not saying that in a better system Kemba would all of sudden become super efficient, but at the same time I don't really expect any of our ballhandlers to excel in this system with this roster and I don't think he is inherently as inefficient as he was this season. He didn't shoot any worse than our other guards (exception Hendo lol) despite having way more offensive responsibility and being our bailout option most of the year.

Debate needs to be shut down entirely until next year. He had a piss poor pathetic season this year. If he wouldn't have had that December? Dear Lord.

That being said, Im on board. Going to ride with him or die with him right now. But if he has another bad year, its on him, and only him. 5th year in the league I don't care what kind of roster construction we have or whatever excuses people have for him. Thats it, period.

[Braggins]

This debate has been a lot more balanced than usual. Kind of unexpected, but really refreshing.

The sad thing to me is that Kemba was actually average in terms of efficiency compared to our overall guard play. I posted the shooting percentages for our guards a few pages ago and we literally only had one guard out of like the seven that played meaningful minutes that shot over 40%. PJ, Neal, and Lance all shot significantly worse and Mo only shot .5% better. I don't know how anyone can deny the effect that the teams dysfunction has on all our guards. Basically all our guards had career worst shooting years. I'm not saying that in a better system Kemba would all of sudden become super efficient, but at the same time I don't really expect any of our ballhandlers to excel in this system with this roster and I don't think he is inherently as inefficient as he was this season. He didn't shoot any worse than our other guards (exception Hendo lol) despite having way more offensive responsibility and being our bailout option most of the year.

Debate needs to be shut down entirely until next year. He had a piss poor pathetic season this year. If he wouldn't have had that December? Dear Lord.

That being said, Im on board. Going to ride with him or die with him right now. But if he has another bad year, its on him, and only him. 5th year in the league I don't care what kind of roster construction we have or whatever excuses people have for him. Thats it, period.

He definitely has to show a lot more than he did this year, but if our team looks mostly the same and we play mostly the same way I'm not going to expect him to play all that much better. At the very least I don't expect we will be as bad strategically and scheme wise (surely Clifford is going to adjust, right?), so I do expect him to do better, but I'm not sure how much better. If he struggles again he probably needs to go even if it is still largely a team/scheme issue. If we are going to stick to playing a certain way and he can't excel playing that way then we'll have to move on at some point. I'm cautiously optimistic about next season. I think he can and should do better, but I'm going to wait to see how this off-season plays out before coming to any kind of conclusion about it.

[catch20two]

Not gonna be much change in the roster with Al and Hendo opting in with little to no cap space. Not gonna be much change in the coaching staff next year with Clifford being guaranteed at least another year and being too old to teach a dog new tricks. So prepare yourselves for another poor year from Kemba along with the other guards but it'll mostly be Kemba fault since he's the starting PG and reputed leader of the team.

That is unless Cho got some kinda magic up his sleeve in which I doubt considering how super conservative he is. The most he might do is trade Hairston + 2nd rounders for some virtual unknown that'll come in and have a solid season off the bench to get everyone except for muah excited about the under the radar trades he continue to make.

[Liver_Pooty]

Not gonna be much change in the roster with Al and Hendo opting in with little to no cap space. Not gonna be much change in the coaching staff next year with Clifford being guaranteed at least another year and being too old to teach a dog new tricks. So prepare yourselves for another poor year from Kemba along with the other guards but it'll mostly be Kemba fault since he's the starting PG and reputed leader of the team.

That is unless Cho got some kinda magic up his sleeve in which I doubt considering how super conservative he is. The most he might do is trade Hairston + 2nd rounders for some virtual unknown that'll come in and have a solid season off the bench to get everyone except for muah excited about the under the radar trades he continue to make.

Give us some ideas on the posters of the year ordeal on the other thread. You're way more creative than I am.

[EwingSweatsALot]

Not to get in a huge debate, but I think he is who he is. Over the last three years his stats have little variance except the year he did shoot over 40% and even it was only his FG% that changed. I get the argument of poor players and shooters around him, and poor coaching to boot. But remember we have brought in what were deemed to be good shooters until they arrived here. Kemba's shooting didn't consistently get better. Those players got worse. Kemba is the constant. Correlation or causation? I don't know. Probably a lot more intricate and deep than that.

Kemba came in who he still is today. All heart, all desire, face of the team, and a poor poor shooter. Can he get better, but guys that stay in college for three years rarely make huge strides in their 5th year. A PG his size needs to be elite at shooting, passing, or athleticism. He isn't one of them. Poor shooter, average passer, above average athleticism.

I'm on the ride or die train with Kemba. We are kind of forced to be. The money now forces us to be. So I hope he excels. I hope next year his splits are 43/38/85. I don't see it, but we desperately need it for this franchise to move forward.

[Braggins]

On this team with this coach, Id be happy with 42/35/83 on about 14-15 fg attempts. 17/6/4/2 would be a good stat-line.

[catch20two]

I have no problem with Kemba being a low 40% shooter and low 30% 3pt shooter as long as he fight and keep us in games like he did last year. I know he was right below 40% this year so I don't need the reminder.

I think Westbrook is the best PG in the league other than Steph and he's a low 40% fg shooter low 30% 3pt shooter but he keep the FIGHT. I hated when Kemba let those nut ass refs get to him all season. I know he was fouled and anyone with common sense know he was getting hacked but he let that frustration deter him from making what coulda been and1s and points on the board when the team desperately needed them by trying to show up the refs who are gonna be imbeciles by nature until you earn their respect with wins.

[Braggins]

Kemba's constant bitching to the refs and him seemingly completely losing trust in his teammates at the end of the season really bothered me. I mean, he is only human, and I admit that I would have folded to the frustration of the season way sooner, but we just can't have that from him.

[EwingSweatsALot]

I get him fighting. i get his intangibles. I am an intagibles guy. It's why I wanted MKG in the draft and why he has become my favorite player. But Kemba's intangibles don't translate into wins like MKGs does. Out of the 6 main cogs the last two seasons Kemba's win % when he plays versus when he doesn't is by far the worst. He just hasn't translated into wins for us. He has to shoot better, he can't just keep fighting. We need both.

[catch20two]

I don't believe in the Kemba don't equal wins sweepstake just because we won 40-50% of our games in his brief absences. I think it just goes to show that our wings are so weak other than MKG that we become one of the worst teams when he's injured. I'm not arguing your stance but that's just how I see it. Jeff Taylor? Lmao ctfu.

[HornetJail]

On this team with this coach, Id be happy with 42/35/83 on about 14-15 fg attempts. 17/6/4/2 would be a good stat-line.

So, exactly what his statline would look like with one less missed shot attempt per game?

Kemba's career numbers if he missed one less field goal in every game of his career (3P% adjusted based on his rate of 3 point shooting):

42.4/36.2/81.4 on 13.6FGA. 16.3/5.4/3.7/1.4

[Braggins]

On this team with this coach, Id be happy with 42/35/83 on about 14-15 fg attempts. 17/6/4/2 would be a good stat-line.

So, exactly what his statline would look like with one less missed shot attempt per game?

Kemba's career numbers if he missed one less field goal in every game of his career (3P% adjusted based on his rate of 3 point shooting):

42.4/36.2/81.4 on 13.6FGA. 16.3/5.4/3.7/1.4

Yep, I think he could average more points or assists in the right circumstances, but in an ideal scenario he would be in the 15-17 points and 6 or 7 assists. His job on a good team should be to get the ball up the court quick and attack to put pressure on the defense, initiate the offense, and then just become a cog in the half-court as a 3rd option. I think he is close to where he needs to be as far as just pure statistical averages, but he is being forced to do way more than he should need to in order to get those stats. I think he could get his shooting efficiency a little higher than 42%/43% on an ideal team and system, but here I would be pretty happy with that.

[EwingSweatsALot]

I don't believe in the Kemba don't equal wins sweepstake just because we won 40-50% of our games in his brief absences. I think it just goes to show that our wings are so weak other than MKG that we become one of the worst teams when he's injured. I'm not arguing your stance but that's just how I see it. Jeff Taylor? Lmao ctfu.

Over the last two years we are 59-76(43.7%) with him and 17-12( 58.6%) without him. 29 games isn't that small. I get the deal with the wings, outside of MKG, we have had horrible wings over the last two years. Probably why we are 62-55(53.0%) with MKG and 14-33(23.2%) without him.

It's not an exact metric. It doesn't take out a lot of variables (who we played and who else was in the game, but two things do concern me. One, how does the leader of our team have 3 less wins than MKG in 18 more games played? Two, if he is our leader and considered good enough to get 12 million a year those win percentages shouldn't be that bad. I understand your dismissal of the stat, but there has to be some concern there. It is rather drastic.

[BeesWax]

I don't believe in the Kemba don't equal wins sweepstake just because we won 40-50% of our games in his brief absences. I think it just goes to show that our wings are so weak other than MKG that we become one of the worst teams when he's injured. I'm not arguing your stance but that's just how I see it. Jeff Taylor? Lmao ctfu.

Over the last two years we are 59-76(43.7%) with him and 17-12( 58.6%) without him. 29 games isn't that small. I get the deal with the wings, outside of MKG, we have had horrible wings over the last two years. Probably why we are 62-55(53.0%) with MKG and 14-33(23.2%) without him.

It's not an exact metric. It doesn't take out a lot of variables (who we played and who else was in the game, but two things do concern me. One, how does the leader of our team have 3 less wins than MKG in 18 more games played? Two, if he is our leader and considered good enough to get 12 million a year those win percentages shouldn't be that bad. I understand your dismissal of the stat, but there has to be some concern there. It is rather drastic.

Yeah but this season we beat some pretty weak teams. We had two wins against Washington and one against Chicago but other than that we beat teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Pistons, Nuggets, Pacers, Nets, Magic, Raptors and Wolves. We go a bit lucky that we played that many teams we have a legit shot of beating over that span. I am not saying it is for sure we would win with him but we did not have a strong strength of schedule while he was down either.

[EwingSweatsALot]

I don't believe in the Kemba don't equal wins sweepstake just because we won 40-50% of our games in his brief absences. I think it just goes to show that our wings are so weak other than MKG that we become one of the worst teams when he's injured. I'm not arguing your stance but that's just how I see it. Jeff Taylor? Lmao ctfu.

Over the last two years we are 59-76(43.7%) with him and 17-12( 58.6%) without him. 29 games isn't that small. I get the deal with the wings, outside of MKG, we have had horrible wings over the last two years. Probably why we are 62-55(53.0%) with MKG and 14-33(23.2%) without him.

It's not an exact metric. It doesn't take out a lot of variables (who we played and who else was in the game, but two things do concern me. One, how does the leader of our team have 3 less wins than MKG in 18 more games played? Two, if he is our leader and considered good enough to get 12 million a year those win percentages shouldn't be that bad. I understand your dismissal of the stat, but there has to be some concern there. It is rather drastic.

Yeah but this season we beat some pretty weak teams. We had two wins against Washington and one against Chicago but other than that we beat teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Pistons, Nuggets, Pacers, Nets, Magic, Raptors and Wolves. We go a bit lucky that we played that many teams we have a legit shot of beating over that span. I am not saying it is for sure we would win with him but we did not have a strong strength of schedule while he was down either.

In that time period, so over the last two years.

When Kemba is out our opponents have had a combined record of 45.3%. We shouldn't have won 58.6% of those games. One because we aren't haven't been a 48 win type team. And 2 when your leader and who some consider the best player on the team, we shouldn't be winning 58.6% of our games. Our team record should drop right? If that guy means that much we should have a worse record than we should have against those teams. We actually had a better one than we should have.

Also if anyone cares, the record of opponent's when MKG is out is 49.5%. So more difficult than Kemba, but we shouldn't be 14-33 against them.

[BeesWax]

Over the last two years we are 59-76(43.7%) with him and 17-12( 58.6%) without him. 29 games isn't that small. I get the deal with the wings, outside of MKG, we have had horrible wings over the last two years. Probably why we are 62-55(53.0%) with MKG and 14-33(23.2%) without him.

It's not an exact metric. It doesn't take out a lot of variables (who we played and who else was in the game, but two things do concern me. One, how does the leader of our team have 3 less wins than MKG in 18 more games played? Two, if he is our leader and considered good enough to get 12 million a year those win percentages shouldn't be that bad. I understand your dismissal of the stat, but there has to be some concern there. It is rather drastic.

Yeah but this season we beat some pretty weak teams. We had two wins against Washington and one against Chicago but other than that we beat teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Pistons, Nuggets, Pacers, Nets, Magic, Raptors and Wolves. We go a bit lucky that we played that many teams we have a legit shot of beating over that span. I am not saying it is for sure we would win with him but we did not have a strong strength of schedule while he was down either.

In that time period, so over the last two years.

When Kemba is out our opponents have had a combined record of 45.3%. We shouldn't have won 58.6% of those games. One because we aren't haven't been a 48 win type team. And 2 when your leader and who some consider the best player on the team, we shouldn't be winning 58.6% of our games. Our team record should drop right? If that guy means that much we should have a worse record than we should have against those teams. We actually had a better one than we should have.

Also if anyone cares, the record of opponent's when MKG is out is 49.5%. So more difficult than Kemba, but we shouldn't be 14-33 against them.

That is just terrible math. One has nothing at all to do with the other or the point you are trying to make. We played every team ahead of us in the draft right now except the Kings. We had a number of really good chances to win games while he was down. Then Mo coming in and playing well above what he was able to maintain helped as well. We never had half as good a replacement for MKG when he went down.