Marcin Gortat Polish Hammer appreciation thread.

[hands11]

During last year's Bulls series, I absentmindedly ragged on Gortat for a lackluster game and posited that maybe we should consider other options. I was promptly corrected - either by miller or nate - and told to look at the numbers. I did. And then I paid attention to his performance in the "little things" - the defense, the boxing out, the consistency. Came to love Gortat's game, day in and day out. Very workmanlike. This season, my wife has turned into a novice basketball fan, and a few games ago, she asked me, "Why don't they just give the ball to March most of the time? He almost always makes it." I didn't have a good answer other than, "Well, he's not always open and err..."

So all that said, I've been a little bit concerned about his comments and demeanor in the second half of the season. He seems to be fed up with not only the organization, not only with Witt's witlessness, but also with his fellow teammates: Q - "Why'd you have a good game?" A - "They passed me the ball." etc... Is anyone else a little worried about this for the long run? It doesn't really seem to affect his in-game play, but locker room discord is not what you want to see from a rising team. Am I just watching too many post game interviews, or do we have a little bit of an issue here?

Regardless, loved what he did during this series. I really can't argue with him if he thinks we should be running more offense through him. I can't argue with him if he feels he's not getting enough credit on D and on the boards. Just hope that his relationship with the team isn't deteriorating to the point that it might cause issues going forward.

You might want to read the last 2-3 pages.

its been an issue and talked about for most the year. Lots has gone wrong and its mostly Randys fault. Gortat has been majorly slighted and that pissed him off big time. I don't blame him.

The good news is, they are playing more S4 now. They just sweep and he played big. Is this all worked out ? Not sure but its got to be a lot better. This is the way Gortat wanted them to be playing. Its how they should have been playing. He isn't the only one that has been frustrated. I know I have been. I think Gooden has been as well.

[benb331]

You might want to read the last 2-3 pages.

its been an issue and talked about.

The good news is, they are playing more S4 now. They just sweep and he played big. Is this all worked out ? Not sure but its got to be a lot better. This is the way Gortat wanted them to be playing. And I can't blame him. Its how they should have been playing. He isn't the only one that has been frustrated. I know I have been. I think Gooden has been as well.

I didn't mean to characterize my post as some sort of ground breaking revelation. I read more than I write, and I've certainly been following the discussion on this storyline.

Let me reframe the question: success often buries these types of concerns. Should the team's recent euphoria be cause to move passed this strife? Or is this something that will need to be addressed in the offseason and beyond? If we compete well in round 2 or even make the ECF, will Gortat be satisfied? Or is he a "get my stats" type of guy, wherein he needs to get his touches in order to be satisfied? Are there any team systems that generate enough touches for a Center in the modern NBA for Gortat to be content? I don't get the feeling that his Orlando or Phoenix stints were filled with team building activities.

Part of me is a numbers freak: I like to see what's effective and exploit it. The other part enjoys the narrative behind the team and its individual personas. Gortat jives with the former and has been a bit of a thorn in the latter. "Young core fired up by grizzled veteran leadership" is the Wizards' playoff motif this year, and Gortat is often an afterthought, "Oh by the way - this Marcin guy is contributing as well." For loyal fans who have read the past 2-3 pages of this thread, the problems go a bit deeper than a mere slighting in the press. Gortat's not happy with his involvement the past few months. Will winning solve that?

[RustyMagoo]

Respect the hammer!


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[krii]

You might want to read the last 2-3 pages.

its been an issue and talked about.

The good news is, they are playing more S4 now. They just sweep and he played big. Is this all worked out ? Not sure but its got to be a lot better. This is the way Gortat wanted them to be playing. And I can't blame him. Its how they should have been playing. He isn't the only one that has been frustrated. I know I have been. I think Gooden has been as well.

I didn't mean to characterize my post as some sort of ground breaking revelation. I read more than I write, and I've certainly been following the discussion on this storyline.

Let me reframe the question: success often buries these types of concerns. Should the team's recent euphoria be cause to move passed this strife? Or is this something that will need to be addressed in the offseason and beyond? If we compete well in round 2 or even make the ECF, will Gortat be satisfied? Or is he a "get my stats" type of guy, wherein he needs to get his touches in order to be satisfied? Are there any team systems that generate enough touches for a Center in the modern NBA for Gortat to be content? I don't get the feeling that his Orlando or Phoenix stints were filled with team building activities.

Part of me is a numbers freak: I like to see what's effective and exploit it. The other part enjoys the narrative behind the team and its individual personas. Gortat jives with the former and has been a bit of a thorn in the latter. "Young core fired up by grizzled veteran leadership" is the Wizards' playoff motif this year, and Gortat is often an afterthought, "Oh by the way - this Marcin guy is contributing as well." For loyal fans who have read the past 2-3 pages of this thread, the problems go a bit deeper than a mere slighting in the press. Gortat's not happy with his involvement the past few months. Will winning solve that?

IMO it isn't that big deal for Gortat to play a smaller role in the team if only he is involved in the team's offensive games. Sometimes he just looks lost if most of the plays in the offensive end goes through everyone but him (like earlier this year). I am a huge fan of Marcin since he was drafted and I was observing his behaviour over these years. It seems like he IS a team player that is a great piece of a greater machine. But in Orlando, PHX and now in Wizards he had the same problem - there was a focal point where he couldn't do anything with his game and he became frustrated. In Orlando he had to play behind Dwight Howard, back then the Monster Howard. He was playing a few minutes per game so when he had a chance to leave Magic he did it. In Phoenix he found himself comfortable with Steve Nash but then Goran Dragic occured. He actually played quite well with him for some time but the game changed - that is why partially he was so happy to join Wizards.

The point is he don't have to be 30%-usage kind of guy. He seems ok when he is playing his minutes and some plays goes through him. And when he is involved and in a good mood he can lift himself for some monster games.

[tontoz]

Having a S4 in the game reallty opened up the lane for Gortat. He doesn't have much of a post game but he can run the pick and roll as well as any center in the league. The pick and roll is a lot easier with good spacing.

[nate33]

So all that said, I've been a little bit concerned about his comments and demeanor in the second half of the season. He seems to be fed up with not only the organization, not only with Witt's witlessness, but also with his fellow teammates: Q - "Why'd you have a good game?" A - "They passed me the ball." etc... Is anyone else a little worried about this for the long run? It doesn't really seem to affect his in-game play, but locker room discord is not what you want to see from a rising team. Am I just watching too many post game interviews, or do we have a little bit of an issue here?

I don't think it's a big concern. My sense is that Gortat is simply a passionate player. When he's annoyed he shows it. At the same time, when things are going well, he definitely seems genuinely happy for his teammates. There will continue to be episodes when he doesn't get the ball enough and he'll point it out, but I don't see a long term, overarching theme.

Also, we are watching Wall get better and better at the pick and roll. In his first couple of years with McGee as his center, they just didn't run it much because McGee was an idiot. Wall didn't really have to learn it until Gortat got here. Over the past two years, Wall has become a master at it, and he'll continue to get better. Gortat knows that this is a great place for him.

[DCZards]

Gotta love what Gortat is bringing lately. With all of the attention that Pierce, Wall, Otto, Beal, and even Drew, are getting for their outstanding play against Toronto, Marcin sometimes flies under the radar screen. But the guy has been scoring, rebounding, passing, blocking shots and running the court better than just about any big man in the game.

I remember one particular sequence in the second half last night where Big Marcin busted his butt and beat everybody downcourt, including all of his teammates, and Wall found him for an easy two at the rim. That kind of effort and hustle sets a great example for the other Zards to follow. It's Hammer time!

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Marcin with a hoe-hum 17.25 points 10 rebounds 3 assist 2 blocks and nearly a steal on 72% shooting and great defense in 31 mpg (only played more than 30 minutes once) for the series.

[Rafael122]

So basically it took a quasi Nene benching to fully see Gortat's value. It's interesting and makes me wonder what happens next season, i.e. does Nene come off the bench?

[hands11]

You might want to read the last 2-3 pages.

its been an issue and talked about.

The good news is, they are playing more S4 now. They just sweep and he played big. Is this all worked out ? Not sure but its got to be a lot better. This is the way Gortat wanted them to be playing. And I can't blame him. Its how they should have been playing. He isn't the only one that has been frustrated. I know I have been. I think Gooden has been as well.

I didn't mean to characterize my post as some sort of ground breaking revelation. I read more than I write, and I've certainly been following the discussion on this storyline.

Let me reframe the question: success often buries these types of concerns. Should the team's recent euphoria be cause to move passed this strife? Or is this something that will need to be addressed in the offseason and beyond? If we compete well in round 2 or even make the ECF, will Gortat be satisfied? Or is he a "get my stats" type of guy, wherein he needs to get his touches in order to be satisfied? Are there any team systems that generate enough touches for a Center in the modern NBA for Gortat to be content? I don't get the feeling that his Orlando or Phoenix stints were filled with team building activities.

Part of me is a numbers freak: I like to see what's effective and exploit it. The other part enjoys the narrative behind the team and its individual personas. Gortat jives with the former and has been a bit of a thorn in the latter. "Young core fired up by grizzled veteran leadership" is the Wizards' playoff motif this year, and Gortat is often an afterthought, "Oh by the way - this Marcin guy is contributing as well." For loyal fans who have read the past 2-3 pages of this thread, the problems go a bit deeper than a mere slighting in the press. Gortat's not happy with his involvement the past few months. Will winning solve that?

I enjoy the narrative as well and what you are talking about is a lot of what I am seeing.

In short. Yes.. In my view its still an issue for reasons I have outlined before. And its many things. Will it be an issue moving forward ? Only if they don't fix it.

Part of it is ego. Not ego in a bad way but.. Gortat wants to be part of a core. A big name. Not just on the team but in the NBA. He want to be mentioned as one of the best centers. That's a personal goal. Maybe it in part has to do with his Polish pride and what the status does for him to help his country in other ways. I believe he also wants to be mentioned as on of the core vets here and given that respect. Not exactly like PP is.. because PP is a first ballet HOFer. But he wants to be mentioned in that kind of space. Gortat is a prideful man. Its just who he is. Not a bad thing. He want to win first. But he also wants that respect. He wants to be recognized as an elite center. And its in part that drive that makes him the Polish Machine.

Gorat was terribly managed this year. The dude is very prideful about his game and works really hard. He is the Polish Machines. He a unique combination of offense and defense that should have him mentioned as one of the top centers. That combination of soft hands, spacing, PnR, quick to the basket finishing, passing, getting down court first, solid mid range, decent FT shooting and under appreciated defense should have him up there in the list. But he is an offensive center, not some defensive anchor offensive after thought. Offense is core to who he is. And offense has been the weak link on this team all year. It was killing him he wasn't used more.

And for all that. Randy didn't make him a core piece. Randy went away from his strength of PnR and a core part of the offense.. and this was all when the offense SUCKS. Randy didn't put a stretch 4 ( Gooden ) out there to open the floor for him. Actually, the opposite was happening. When they finally did start going to him more and opening the floor because Gooden was out there with Hump hurt, they said... yeah... Marcin was rolling more. Marcin said.. BS. you just opened the floor and finally passed me the ball. I have be setting picks and trying to roll all year. And to top it all off. Randy was benching him down the stretch in favor or Nene. He was putting Nene over Gortat. It was all very poorly managed.

So with all of that. With everything being about Wall and Beal and PP and even Nene before Gortat... he felt dissed and under utilized in a major way. And rightfully so. It was all a wrong as wrong could be and for that, I blame Randy the most. He totally mismanaged the situation.

Gorat is now 31. This is his time and he was watching is all go totally wrong. They just signed him to a 5 year contract and before signing .. HE SAID IT.. I WANT TO BE USED MORE AS THE CORE OF THE OFFENSE.. He actually spelled it out. I have to imagine they talked about this before he signed.

So what would make it right ? Gortat will forgive and forget if...

1) They keep using him like they are and they win deep into the playoffs.
2) If the coach clearly shows him the respect he has earned and start to make him a priority. He might want to even spell it out and apologize for this screw up and admit it was his mistake.
3) If the coach clearly shows him the respect he has earned and starts to talk about him as a valued core piece. Maybe not in the same voice as he would Paul future HOFer but somewhere up there. Start talking about Gortat as an elite center Randy.

The trick is, how do you give Gortat his rightful place without offending Nene who is also a very prideful man. That is what I highlighted a month or so ago. They actually need Nene as well, but Gortat is more important. Its a transition. Nene used to be the biggest name front court player and a core piece. Now its Gortat. Nene is the one who can help ease this transition but making space for Gortat.

As of this series. It looks like they are working it out. Moving forward. It might be awkward for another year until Nene's contract is up unless they move him. Or they could resign Nene for less to come off the bench. But the front court does need rebalanced. Hump, Nene, Gooden getting old, Blair. Its not the right mix moving forward when they need a S4. Now if Hump could shoot the 3, that changes things. So yes. It need worked out still.

Gortat has clearly not gotten over all the wrongs that happened this year. This interview with Beal and Gortat gets a little ackward at points. He even mentions how everything that was going wrong was all his fault.. tongue and cheek though. This doesn't feel like an interview with Beal and Paul.

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/bradley-beal-and-marcin-gortat-postgame-podium-4-26-15

[hands11]

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/bradley-beal-4-29-15

Beal talks a lot about Gortat and the spread offense.

[hands11]

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/john-wall-4-29-15

Now this is interesting. Wall goes into more details.

His take is that is was Gortat no rolling and not setting good picks. Which is what he said before when Gortat said...ahh.. pretty sure I was rolling like I always do.

Then it was asked about if they butt heads. Wall starts off with kind of a political answer but then reveals that they do butt heads.
3 min mark

Sounds more like a honest disagreement. Gortat trying to tell Wall to do it one way and Wall asking for something else. Doesn't sound like an unhealthy thing. More like just two players trying to work it out. But both these guys have egos. Gortat's probably thinking. Johnny. I thought you this stuff. You were doing this before I got here. And I learn this stuff by working with Steve Nash.

The good news, they seem to be working it out on the court and that's what matters most.

He is an analogy. Gortat is kind of like a big WR that can block telling his QB.. I'm open. I'm open. Feed me to rock. And Wall is the QB trying to read the field who can and also boot leg sometimes. Gortat doesn't want to just block for the running plays and bubble screens, and play decoy. He wants the rock. Dude. I'm open.

And like any scoring big, when Gortat gets the rock on offense, then he loosens up and is more motivated to do all other little things. He picks better. He rebounds. Blocks shots. He runs the floor. And he is even willing to pass more.

Bigs require someone to get them the ball. If you don't do it enough, when they do, they are shooting it regardless of if its a good shot. But if you involve him as par of the offense, he will pass it to the open player like a good guard would.

Gortat had back to back 5 assists game the last two games
He also had 13 and 11 rebounds and 24 and 21 pts.

So when its all working, he is balancing what he is doing and hitting his open teammates as well.

Bottom line. Gortat wants to roll to the basket. If he was popping. It was because he saw the middle clogged and was looking for the open space. He was just trying to adapt to what was their for him. Now that the floor is open more. And now that he and Wall trust each other to be on the same page, he is rolling hard like he was before. And passing it out as well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I used to think Wall is not too bright. I think Gortat's version is on point. He's been the same player. Now that he's not restricted to be utilized in a way that limits his touches and running lanes, Wall is finding him more.

Hands, that's a great analogy about the wide receiver. I do believe Wall wanted more physical toughness from Gortat. Marcin Gortat has an ego. A huge one. He started speaking out more as the Wizards slumped.

You and I agree 100% on Wittman and his stubborn resistance to use Gooden and his preferred Nene over Drew and Marcin. It's no surprise the offense got better once Randy Wittman switched to using Gortat with Gooden or Pierce at PF. Now Wall and Gortat are in sync.

They have a healthy relationship IMO. Disagreement at least means both speak out. Gortat's play commands respect. So does Wall's.

The guy I am happy with in all of this is Nene. He hit the boards hard last round, despite playing around the same minutes as Gooden. Nene accepted the backup C role.

[evolushunize]

How many centers have been better than Marcin Gortat this year? I can't name 10.

Cousins
Duncan
Jordan
Horford
M.Gasol

Who else?

You can make a case for:
P.Gasol
Howard
Gobert
Chandler

Gasol is weak on the defensive end. Howard hasn't played much. Gobert isn't much on offense. Chandler is a real low usage player on offense. They all have an argument over Gortat, but it's not a sure thing.

I don't count Whiteside who only plays half the game and for just half the season. Bogut and Drummond are solid, but I don't think they've been as good as Gortat.

I can add one more. Anthony Davis.

[nate33]

How many centers have been better than Marcin Gortat this year? I can't name 10.

Cousins
Duncan
Jordan
Horford
M.Gasol

Who else?

You can make a case for:
P.Gasol
Howard
Gobert
Chandler

Gasol is weak on the defensive end. Howard hasn't played much. Gobert isn't much on offense. Chandler is a real low usage player on offense. They all have an argument over Gortat, but it's not a sure thing.

I don't count Whiteside who only plays half the game and for just half the season. Bogut and Drummond are solid, but I don't think they've been as good as Gortat.

I can add one more. Anthony Davis.

Yes, other than the fact that he's listed as a power forward and was named an All Star as a power forward.

[hands11]

How many centers have been better than Marcin Gortat this year? I can't name 10.

Cousins
Duncan
Jordan
Horford
M.Gasol

Who else?

You can make a case for:
P.Gasol
Howard
Gobert
Chandler

Gasol is weak on the defensive end. Howard hasn't played much. Gobert isn't much on offense. Chandler is a real low usage player on offense. They all have an argument over Gortat, but it's not a sure thing.

I don't count Whiteside who only plays half the game and for just half the season. Bogut and Drummond are solid, but I don't think they've been as good as Gortat.

I can add one more. Anthony Davis.

Yes, other than the fact that he's listed as a power forward and was named an All Star as a power forward.

Duncan has also mostly been a PF..and probably the best PF ever.

List is getting shorter.

Cousins - nice prospect but never been on a winning NBA team. Can't say he is better right now. Doesn't play winning baskball.
Jordan - dude has no offense and can't hit a FT to save his life.
Howard - mostly a defensive center and not FT shooting nightmare. And a mental flake.
Gobert - nice prospect with lots of upside but come on. You can't say he is better then a seasoned Gortat.
Chandler - great defensive player for many years and he can finish but no mid range game like Gortat.

Here are the ones as comps

Horford
M.Gasol
P.Gasol - was more a PF then a center

And that is a good camp to be in and below all those players offensively.

[nate33]

I can add one more. Anthony Davis.

Yes, other than the fact that he's listed as a power forward and was named an All Star as a power forward.

Duncan has also mostly been a PF..and probably the best PF ever.

List is getting shorter.

Cousins - nice prospect but never been on a winning NBA team. Can't say he is better right now. Doesn't play winning baskball.
Jordan - dude has no offense and can't hit a FT to save his life.
Howard - mostly a defensive center and not FT shooting nightmare. And a mental flake.
Gobert - nice prospect with lots of upside but come on. You can't say he is better then a seasoned Gortat.
Chandler - great defensive player for many years and he can finish but no mid range game like Gortat.

Here are the ones as comps

Horford
M.Gasol
P.Gasol - was more a PF then a center

And that is a good camp to be in and below all those players offensively.

Duncan has clearly been a center this year. He played 1500 of his 2200 minutes without either Splitter or Baynes alongside him.

[hands11]

I wasn't saying he didn't play there more this year. And granted, you weren't commenting on what he had done in the past.

I wasn't trying to take an opposite position.. Just added to what was said.

And all that said, yes.. Duncan who is one of the greatest ever is better then Gortat. Even at his age.

Duncan is THE MAN.

[Kanyewest]

I used to think Wall is not too bright. I think Gortat's version is on point. He's been the same player. Now that he's not restricted to be utilized in a way that limits his touches and running lanes, Wall is finding him more.

Hands, that's a great analogy about the wide receiver. I do believe Wall wanted more physical toughness from Gortat. Marcin Gortat has an ego. A huge one. He started speaking out more as the Wizards slumped.

You and I agree 100% on Wittman and his stubborn resistance to use Gooden and his preferred Nene over Drew and Marcin. It's no surprise the offense got better once Randy Wittman switched to using Gortat with Gooden or Pierce at PF. Now Wall and Gortat are in sync.

They have a healthy relationship IMO. Disagreement at least means both speak out. Gortat's play commands respect. So does Wall's.

The guy I am happy with in all of this is Nene. He hit the boards hard last round, despite playing around the same minutes as Gooden. Nene accepted the backup C role.

I will say that small ball has worked and stretching out the floor has been better. Still, there are games where Nene has been better than Gortat. For instance in game 1, the Wizards lost the lead in the 4th quarter with Gortat on the floor and Nene on the bench. Nene stepped in for Gortat in overtime and the Wizards held the Raptors scoreless until less than 30 seconds left in the overtime period.

Nene and Gortat also played well together in game 4, then again so did everyone in the blowout but it was still impressive.

I also don't think Wittman was stubborn not to use Gooden. He simply wasn't as good as Humphries early in the season. As the season has progressed, Gooden has played himself into better shape, started knocking down 3s, and he also picked up his defense.

[hands11]

I used to think Wall is not too bright. I think Gortat's version is on point. He's been the same player. Now that he's not restricted to be utilized in a way that limits his touches and running lanes, Wall is finding him more.

Hands, that's a great analogy about the wide receiver. I do believe Wall wanted more physical toughness from Gortat. Marcin Gortat has an ego. A huge one. He started speaking out more as the Wizards slumped.

You and I agree 100% on Wittman and his stubborn resistance to use Gooden and his preferred Nene over Drew and Marcin. It's no surprise the offense got better once Randy Wittman switched to using Gortat with Gooden or Pierce at PF. Now Wall and Gortat are in sync.

They have a healthy relationship IMO. Disagreement at least means both speak out. Gortat's play commands respect. So does Wall's.

The guy I am happy with in all of this is Nene. He hit the boards hard last round, despite playing around the same minutes as Gooden. Nene accepted the backup C role.

I will say that small ball has worked and stretching out the floor has been better. Still, there are games where Nene has been better than Gortat. For instance in game 1, the Wizards lost the lead in the 4th quarter with Gortat on the floor and Nene on the bench. Nene stepped in for Gortat in overtime and the Wizards held the Raptors scoreless until less than 30 seconds left in the overtime period.

Nene and Gortat also played well together in game 4, then again so did everyone in the blowout but it was still impressive.

I also don't think Wittman was stubborn not to use Gooden. He simply wasn't as good as Humphries early in the season. As the season has progressed, Gooden has played himself into better shape, started knocking down 3s, and he also picked up his defense.

He pretty much didnt play from Fri 11/7 to Mon 2/9

He was 3-7 from 3 to start the year before riding the pins and the team was 4-2

He made 3s when he got regular minutes and they played him more with the starter.

You pretty much just made up a story without any data or actually observation to support it.

Hey. I enjoyed the Hump mid range game, hustle and rebonding. But he doesn't shoot 3s. Nor does Nene. Nor does Kevin. Nor does Gortat.

Gooden does. And he is 6-10 250 and does lots the same stuff Hump does. He hustles. Gooden get more tip backs. Both take charges. Both rebound though Hump is probably more consistent there.

And before I hear about Humps big rebounding game.

Without looking. You know what Gooden season high was. Write down the number and then look here.

Spoiler:

17

How about his season average from 3

Spoiler:

.390 on 1.2 attempts

We needed a S4. We had a S4/S5.. not hind sight. We know that going into the season. And I have projected line ups with it before he season.

Randy missed it.
And along with Randy, lots of the board missed it as well calling Gooden trash. It seems some are still missing it and making excuses for why Randy missed it. Is Gooden an AS? No. Did he have a lower TS then Hump .. yes. That isn't the point. The point is Gooden stretched the floor in way Hum didn't because Hump refused to step behind the 3 line.

And a S4 behind the 3 line at the top of the key, that opened the offense.

Its no secret Randy is old school. Has an old school offense and that he is stubborn as a mule. No reason to make excuses for that.