DA Should Trade IT

CollegeToPros · Post #21 » by **CollegeToPros** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:33 pm

Everyone has a price.

Now isn't the time to impede the progress of the franchise and deal him off.

IT4 was known as a chucker. That's not what I see. I see an aggressive scorer who tries to make the right play, but isn't an elite passer. He did eye-opening work being the star with no one around him to take pressure off.

Picture a pick and pop with IT4 and K-Love. They would have to respect Love and give IT4 room to work.

I also like his effort on defense.

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Valid · Post #22 » by **Valid** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:46 pm

Kenhov wrote:Is the world going mad?

IT, a midget spark plug who has been traded twice in one season already should be preserved because he is some kind of cornerstone scorer off the bench?

OP is right. His value will never be higher.

For the right asset it makes perfect sense to trade him else next season when his game wears thin and his lack of versatility becomes clearer we will wish we had.

Ideally I'd like KO, Turner Zeller, IT, Bradley, Pressey, JJ, Datome gone.

All varying degrees of scrubs.

IT is a scrub? Funny. I didn't realize a scrub could average 20 PPG on good efficiency.

Valid · Post #23 » by **Valid** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:50 pm

Afam wrote:I agree. Danny Ainge should trade. Yes IT has heart, but he just too undersized to be a starter in this league. I be in Favor of Danny bringing in Reggie Jackson. I have been impressed with his play this season.

I cannot stand this argument. Just because he is "too undersized" means we should trade him? You guys are acting like he is going to be our No. 1 option for the long haul when that could not be any more false. By this logic, we should trade EVERYONE on this team and go into next season letting Wyc and Brad play two on five.

And Reggie Jackson? Seriously? You do realize that his efficiency is almost identical to this forum's favorite whipping boy Avery Bradley, right? The only difference is we would likely be paying him double the amount Bradley is making.

Look; no one on this team is untouchable, but you don't trade someone just for the sake of making a trade.

Post #24 » by **Slartibartfast** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:06 pm

I don't think IT is going to have a ton of value if we put him on the block. We're his 3rd team in a year, and he's been cheap in every acquisition in his career (60th pick, bargain deal in Phoenix, low first round pick from Boston). He's just not a super valuable commodity.

I think Danny values him a lot more than most front offices (first call in free agency, suppressing his tank instincts to grab him midseason).

jfs1000d · Post #25 » by **jfs1000d** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:15 pm

Ainge loves IT. No one is untouchable, but what are you looking to get back. Guy is. 20ppg scorer out there given starter minutes. Sorry, I am not giving that up for a draft pick.

Post #26 » by **ParticleMan** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:25 pm

early in your career, your value is determined by potential. later on, it is determined by production.

IT's value has never yet been high because his potential is considered low. why? because he is 5-9, GMs figure he has a low ceiling (no pun intended). but all he has ever done is produced. eventually, his value is going to be set by this, but he is still only 24. trading him now would be a sell-low move because the longer we wait and the more he keeps producing like he has, the higher his value will be.

Post #27 » by **Slartibartfast** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:47 pm

ParticleMan wrote:early in your career, your value is determined by potential. later on, it is determined by production.

IT's value has never yet been high because his potential is considered low. why? because he is 5-9, GMs figure he has a low ceiling (no pun intended). but all he has ever done is produced. eventually, his value is going to be set by this, but he is still only 24. trading him now would be a sell-low move because the longer we wait and the more he keeps producing like he has, the higher his value will be.

Nope. He's 26 not 24 and he's been producing like clockwork every year he's been in the league. His TS% in particular is so consistent it's spooky. But that hasn't done jack for his valuation. He averaged 20/6 for Sacramento and they didn't want him back. He was had for an MLE equivalent deal. He matched his Sacramento production almost exactly per minute in Phoenix (a winning situation too) even with reduced usage and they dealt him at midseason for a weak first.

I think everyone in the league knows he's a dynamite bench scorer and a ridiculously good slasher for a little guy. But they also know he's a terrible defender who can never be a starter because he's so tiny.

Gomes3PC · Post #28 » by **Gomes3PC** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:51 pm

Thomas is what he is. I don't see upside in trading him this offseason, but if there's an opportunity at the deadline next year to ship him to a team desperate to add scoring punch and we can get something like a young talented big or wing in return, I'm sure Ainge won't hang up the phone. For example, if Houston decided they wanted Thomas and dangled Terrence Jones or Motiejunas, I'd certainly think long and hard about that.

celticfan42487 · Post #29 » by **celticfan42487** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:59 pm

You think his value is at it's height right now?

Well just consider this. This year, he's paid 7.2 million.

Next year 6.9

And in 2016 when the cap will jump up by an absurd amount like 20% his contract will decrease again to 6.5 million. Which is an adjusted value is basically the MLE for a 6th man of the year player.

Oh and in 2016, he will still have 2 years on his contract.

IT is also young, and there's no reason to think he won't be as good as he is right now throughout his prime.

So it's very much likely his highest value will be in 2016. It's also likely we'll know by 2016 if we're on the verge of contending and need to trade him for a star. Or if we F'd up our picks and need to trade him for a first rounder. Meanwhile, enjoy having him as the best player on a rebuilding team.

VeryMuchWoke · Post #30 » by **VeryMuchWoke** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:01 pm

"We should trade player X" is an incredibly stupid way of starting a discussion. It's as if the return is irrelevant.

humblebum · Post #31 » by **humblebum** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:02 pm

This is a young team that tends to lack confidence in certain players especially heading into the season with Rajon.

So I believe Ainge values the man that Isaiah is and what he brings in terms of commitment to his craft, positive voice, and helping to create a style and energy that draws talents to be interested in helping to push the Celtics to a new level.

Thomas is the preeminent little man in the game and those guys are so valuable from a marketing standpoint.

Sufficed to say I don't believe he is going anywhere. You need a little guy in this league to match up with some of these quick quick PG's. Awesome job by Ainge to lock down that microwave guy at great value moving forward, great chemistry/ continuity pick up and i thought despite missing a ton of makeable looks Thomas was pretty solid offensively against Lebron and the Cavs.

Post #32 » by **ParticleMan** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:08 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:early in your career, your value is determined by potential. later on, it is determined by production.

IT's value has never yet been high because his potential is considered low. why? because he is 5-9, GMs figure he has a low ceiling (no pun intended). but all he has ever done is produced. eventually, his value is going to be set by this, but he is still only 24. trading him now would be a sell-low move because the longer we wait and the more he keeps producing like he has, the higher his value will be.

Nope. He's 26 not 24 and he's been producing like clockwork every year he's been in the league. His TS% in particular is so consistent it's spooky. But that hasn't done jack for his valuation. He averaged 20/6 for Sacramento and they didn't want him back. He was had for an MLE equivalent deal. He matched his Sacramento production almost exactly per minute in Phoenix (a winning situation too) even with reduced usage and they dealt him at midseason for a weak first.

I think everyone in the league knows he's a dynamite bench scorer and a ridiculously good slasher for a little guy. But they also know he's a terrible defender who can never be a starter because he's so tiny.

yeah 26 my bad but i still think he's just getting to a stage where people are going to set aside potential and start paying for production. i think phx actually sold low, they panicked when their 3 pg rotation didn't work and sold below value.

and he's not that terrible defensively. he's not bradley or smart but he holds his own. his metrics aren't that bad either, slightly below average but there's a lot worse out there.

GuyClinch · Post #33 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:14 pm

Yeah not seeing the Dan Dickau like defense out of IT. He is fiesty out there..

humblebum · Post #34 » by **humblebum** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:18 pm

And he brings the game right to people's chests on the other end. He can get victimized by Kyrie but that Kyrie he even makes Bradley and Smart look invisible out there.

Gomes3PC · Post #35 » by **Gomes3PC** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:33 pm

Thomas is one of the worst pick and roll defenders I have seen. He tries decent enough but 90% of the time gets either completely wiped out by the pick or goes under it and in part due to his size just ends up giving an extremely easy look to the guard.

There's just physical limitations of how good a defender someone who is 5-10 with a 6-0 wingspan can be in the NBA. The only guy even remotely his size who is a good NBA defender is Chris Paul, who has probably 4-5 inches of wingspan and 20 pounds on Thomas, plus some of the quickest hands in the NBA.

ddb · Post #36 » by **ddb** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 pm

I don't see any reason to move IT, and I don't see any teams demanding him back in return via a blockbuster trade.

Of course because of IT's style of play he is going to frustrate us at times. He's a high volume scorer who likes the ball in his hands and likes to create. He is no different then Jamal Crawford and Lou Williams in that regard. Manu frustrated the heck out of Pop & Timmy for years in San Antonio... But you NEED someone like that coming off your bench that has absolutely zero conscious.

IT pushes tempo, gets to the free throw line and is fully capable of completely taking over a game in the 4th quarter. He needs to understand that he's a 6th man. IF he accepts that role then he will have a long and successful career in Boston. Being a 6th man is pretty darn important. I feel like the Celtics will be able to convince him of that

IT needs to realize that being a 6th man has it's perks too. Being a starting PG you have more defensive responsibility, and you need to "run the offense". Even Chris Paul takes a back seat scoring the ball for the betterment of his team. He's out there to make sure things run smoothly.
But being a 6th man in the mold of an IT..... Him checking in is basically Coach Stevens saying, "have at it Isaiah...get us going and be aggressive"

Post #37 » by **Slartibartfast** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:21 pm

GuyClinch wrote:Yeah not seeing the Dan Dickau like defense out of IT. He is fiesty out there..

Yes, he's not a slow white guy, but he's still a major liability. He can't contest anyone's shots either on man or in team D. He can't switch on to anyone. He's a weak rebounder and mediocre disrupting passing lanes. It's not a big deal playing against the likes of Delladova off the bench, but against starters he routinely gets exploited and makes everything harder on his teammates.

This is not hating on IT. He's a top-notch 6th man, but no good team starts him and that is entirely because of his D.

Post #38 » by **sully00** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:28 pm

What would you hope to get back for him in a trade? Any team in the league could have just traded for him and Boston won out with the expiring contract of Marcus Thornton and a top 10 protected '16 1st rounder that belongs to the Cavs who are picking 24 this year.

The key to not being so reliant on Thomas isn't trading him away it is actually getting someone who is as good or better at scoring the basketball.

Beyond all that Thomas may be the key to bringing a guy who is better than him offensively to town.

Curmudgeon · Post #39 » by **Curmudgeon** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:29 pm

Instead of trading IT, Stevens needs to analyze what Blatt did to take away IT's pick and roll game, and plan from there. They should also hide IT in a zone wherever possible.

IT is a better version of Nate Robinson, and his salary reflects that value. Don't make him into more than he3 is, or less than he is.

VeryMuchWoke · Post #40 » by **VeryMuchWoke** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:01 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Instead of trading IT, Stevens needs to analyze what Blatt did to take away IT's pick and roll game, and plan from there. They should also hide IT in a zone wherever possible.

IT is a better version of Nate Robinson, and his salary reflects that value. Don't make him into more than he3 is, or less than he is.

IT struggled because they have 2 really solid wing defenders (Lebron, Shump) and we have 2 guys on the entire team that can make plays on the offensive end. You prevent IT from being neutralized by having more scorers that they have to matchup with. I love Bradley, but if he had displayed just a modicum of offensive ability in this series it would have made things easier on IT.