Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC?

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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#41 » by Thunderhead » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:35 pm

At the end of the day, Schultz never did his homework, Bennett should been honest about it, NBA should have work together not against the City of Seattle and Mayor Nichols not to give up at the end is the reason why the Sonics is no more. Besides, Seattle is playing the "LA of NFL" role now, bumping up cost and threaten every city with to get a new stadium. To me, I tell the NBA to "beat feet" and find another sucker to play that role.


I don't know how you can be any more up front, then in the PC that announces the sale, he tells you , that you have one year.

If Seattle did not get that message, then that's on Seattle.

In fact, there were columnists in the Seattle papers the next day who stated as much .

Bennett told you what he was gonna do, and then he did it.

There's NOTHING Bennett could have done, that was gonna get an arena deal done. Period. That's ridiculous to think he could pull that off. I tell you, Schultz was betting that Seattle would take an owner from outside Seattle, more serious about moving the team, than they took him. And he bet wrong.

I don't care what Seattle does. I'm just tickled to death that they did not want to build a new arena for the Sonics.

Life is hard.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#42 » by Star-Lord » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:35 pm

kodo wrote:There’s a lot of players involved, but at the end of the day the city didn’t care about the Sonics. That was the year the Seahawks were going to the Superbowl, the Mariners were untouchable, abandoning the Washington Huskies would cause politicians to lose their jobs, and the people in Seattle are more interested in hiking, kayaking, snowboarding more than team sports.

Seattle has only 650,000 people, it’s smaller than San Fran and it was trying to support 3 major pro teams and a very expensive college team in the Huskies. Just the renovation to Husky Stadium cost $280 million…the Sonics as a franchise were sold for $350 million….with Kevin Durant.

TLDR: The city of Seattle only had enough money to pick 3 of four teams, and they chose the Seahawks, the Mariners, and the Huskies.

If Seattle had chosen the Sonics and renovated Key Arena, Stern would not have moved the Sonics and found another team for OKC.


All of that is so seriously wrong, so incredibly misinformed, and quite frankly, so **** of you. Fans of other teams in other cities are not in a position to determine whether or not other fans in other cities "care" enough about their team to keep it. You don't want to be like Thunderhead up there, nobody wants to be like that. So be better.

For the OP, and anyone else who'd like to know how all of this went down six years or so ago, just watch this documentary:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKP4KBCzRCM[/youtube]
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#43 » by Thunderhead » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:42 pm

Sonicsgate is propaganda from Seattle.

Its not the definitive end, it was put together by Sonics fans, so you get what you get.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#44 » by Star-Lord » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:47 pm

It's certainly far more objective about the topic than you are.

You have the team now. It was stolen. This can't be argued. No need to still be so insecure.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#45 » by Thunderhead » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:07 pm

CCIIIs Hair wrote:It's certainly far more objective about the topic than you are.

You have the team now. It was stolen. This can't be argued. No need to still be so insecure.


Hah... yeah , OK.

You tell me what I've said , that is wrong , or embellished ?

Show me proof where Bennett lied to you ?

In fact, the same issues Bennett and Schultz had to deal with in Seattle, are still there. This Art Thiel recap from a couple years ago, details the issues .........

http://sportspressnw.com/2145646/2013/thiel-1-billion-question-nba-will-ask-about-seattle

Hard to point the blame on Stern, the NBA, or Bennett .... when you still struggling to get an NBA arena built.

Kansas City built an NBA arena without a team ............ but Seattle can't seem to accomplish that, they just want to drag honest people through the mud ..... to cover their own shortcomings, or avoid the reality that the NBA has no support in Seattle other than a number of Sonics fans.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#46 » by Star-Lord » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:18 pm

Well, let's see. We know Bennett lied when he said he'd do everything in his power to keep the team in Seattle. We know he lied about the nature of his secret email correspondence with his other investors and Stern, and we know he's still lying if he's claiming anything otherwise.

I'm sure Sonics fans who were dialed in at the time can recite others, and I'm not going to start parsing through every public comment Bennett made during that time, but to suggest that the guy wasn't acting duplicitous the entire time he was in Seattle is simply naive.

Look, nobody reasonable should ask or expect Oklahoma fans to even care, let alone take some sort of moral stand for the sake of Sonics fans. That's not their responsibility. Just don't pretend you got your team on the up and up. You didn't. But you're a fan, you don't have to pretend to be concerned with how the sausage is made.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#47 » by NekiEcko » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:34 pm

Thunderhead wrote:Sonicsgate is propaganda from Seattle.

Its not the definitive end, it was put together by Sonics fans, so you get what you get.


Okay, so you think it is the fault of the fans that Schultz was a jerk, or Bennett lied maybe the fans cause the NBA to not work with the city or maybe the fans ask Mayor Nicholas to give up at the end.

That is the reason why I stand behind Seattle on this, throughout the whole ordeal and even now they still want to get back into the NBA, after all of the things that NBA has done to that city and fanbase and they still support them and want to come back, that speaks loyalty in volumes. The fans did not cause this to happen at all. I
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#48 » by Thunderhead » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:36 pm

CCIIIs Hair wrote:Well, let's see. We know Bennett lied when he said he'd do everything in his power to keep the team in Seattle. We know he lied about the nature of his secret email correspondence with his other investors and Stern, and we know he's still lying if he's claiming anything otherwise.

I'm sure Sonics fans who were dialed in at the time can recite others, and I'm not going to start parsing through every public comment Bennett made during that time, but to suggest that the guy wasn't acting duplicitous the entire time he was in Seattle is simply naive.

Look, nobody reasonable should ask or expect Oklahoma fans to even care, let alone take some sort of moral stand for the sake of Sonics fans. That's not their responsibility. Just don't pretend you got your team on the up and up. You didn't. But you're a fan, you don't have to pretend to be concerned with how the sausage is made.


He never put it in the terms , you are using , like " everything in my power " , no he said he " fully intends " to fulfill the lease, that quote is one of the articles I linked above. That was right after i-91 was voted for.

He lied about the emails ??? No , he did not lie about them. They exist, he acknowledged it, apologized to Stern. But those emails were AFTER the fact. They were sent AFTER the legislature failed to act. Those emails are inconsequential.

Bennetts fiduciary duty was to Schultz. He had agreement to work with Seattle to get an arena. That's not what Bennett wanted to do, but that does not preclude him from working with people to get an arena built.

In fact, he had to satisfy the other NBA owners , in that regard. Stern had to have the support of the owners to move that team. And the owners had to be satisified, that everything possible was done to keep a team in Seattle.

I mean really, anybody with a lick of business sense, knows Seattle is a better market for the NBA than OKC. But only, if the team in Seattle has an arena and is in good financial condition. The owners realized this and after years and years of trying to solve that problem, they allowed the team to move.

Stern did not do that, the OWNERS voted to allow the team to move. And Bennett had to earn that vote.

And you are pretty typical, you really can not tell me where Bennett lied or made misrepresentations, you just know it happened , some how.

As to Sonicsgate, the final few minutes of that part you posted is awfully telling from my standpoint, because I know Stern had told them over and over, that the KeyArena or a remodel of the KeyArena was not acceptable to the NBA. And then in the final days, Steve Ballmer steps up with a plan to remodel the KeyArena. That's fricken show biz , that's political grandstanding, because they knew Stern would not agree to it.

But Sonicsgate does not tell you that.

Adn if Steve Ballmer had put half , just half, of what he paid for the Clippers ... .then the Sonics would still be in Seattle. He could've bought the team AND built a new arena for that money.

That's just halfass, a dollar short and a day late on their part.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#49 » by Thunderhead » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:46 pm

NekiEcko wrote:
Thunderhead wrote:Sonicsgate is propaganda from Seattle.

Its not the definitive end, it was put together by Sonics fans, so you get what you get.


Okay, so you think it is the fault of the fans that Schultz was a jerk, or Bennett lied maybe the fans cause the NBA to not work with the city or maybe the fans ask Mayor Nicholas to give up at the end.

That is the reason why I stand behind Seattle on this, throughout the whole ordeal and even now they still want to get back into the NBA, after all of the things that NBA has done to that city and fanbase and they still support them and want to come back, that speaks loyalty in volumes. The fans did not cause this to happen at all. I


No ............... the problem was not butts in the seats.

The problem was the arena and a bad lease.

Schultz was bleeding money , the team was not profitable. They needed to re-negotiate the lease. But the City could not do that.

Up above, I told you how the 95 remodel of KeyArena was financed. They took some money from ticket sales, suites, concessions, and parking to pay off the debt of the remodel.

Well, the team revenues from 1997 on , were not high enough , to provide enough money to meet the bond payments. The City was behind on the payments, basically. And the lease did not expire till 2010. And even then, when the lease expired the City was going to still be millions of dollars away from paying off the debt, estimated up to 40 million short.

What the City needed to do, was pass a tax increase of some kind, that could be used to pay off that debt and then they could've given Schultz a better lease to help the team. And the team could get better, and fill up the arena.

But there was a voter revolt in Seattle at that time, that opposed any public money for sports venues. And it culminated in a vote on I-91 that passed by a 75% margin.

So the City could not redo the lease.

That's what screwed the Sonics in Seattle.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#50 » by Buckeye-NBAFan » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:54 pm

The guy that bought the Sonics lives in Oklahoma City. How did this question spawn 3 pages?
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#51 » by Star-Lord » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:00 pm

Bennett said he'd do, "everything in his power" to honor the lease and keep the Sonics in Seattle. Everything in his power apparently meant proposing a half billion dollar facility in Renton, for which he'd only invest $100 million of his own money in it. That's a joke.

Bennett explicitly stated that the "man possessed" emails were in fact meant to characterize his stance on keeping the team in Seattle, yet anyone who's read the emails can see plainly he's talking about moving the team.

The Key Arena remodel done not even a full decade prior had satisfied Stern, who even acknowledged as much on national television. Nobody could have known that the economic model of arena's in American cities would change such that simply housing thousands of fans for a game wasn't enough to produce the revenue needed for a league that was hemorrhaging money due to piss poor leadership, except Seattle should have apparently had a crystal ball and seen it coming. How ridiculous is that?

Bennett wanted to move the team, and Stern was sick and tired of dealing with a local government in Seattle that didn't cow tow to him and subsidize a basketball arena on the public's dime. Giving in would threaten the league's financial model and future public shakedown attempts whenever this issue popped up in other cities like Indianapolis or Milwaukee or wherever, so Stern saw this as an opportunity to make an example out of a city that wasn't willing to play ball exclusively on his terms. It was the perfect set of circumstances to do so too, considering Seattle leadership at the time had either dug their heels in opposition, or were simply too incompetent and/or spineless to see a fight through to the end. Had Mayor Nickels not taken a settlement for Seattle's lawsuit and allowed the courts to rule, which would have given someone like Ballmer time to put a real proposal to purchase the team and build or renovate an arena together, history might be very, very different today

And really, why the hell do you care? Why the insecurity? You have the team now. Why would any Thunder fan insist on defending the actions of these men when nobody blames the fans for what happened? Enjoy your team with a clean conscience, the people who are justifiably upset know who to direct their anger toward.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#52 » by Ax2SG » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:12 pm

asdfgh wrote:
PockyCandy wrote:There are about a million different versions of why it happened on the internet (Seattle was greedy, Stern was a liar, Bennett was a greedy liar, etc.). So what's the real reason behind their relocation?


Basically what happened was that because of Hurricane Katrina the Hornets were forced to temporarily leave New Orleans and move to Oklahoma City. OKC was very supportive of the Hornets but Stern didn't want the bad publicity of having the team leave New Orleans permanently, so when the Hornets returned to Louisiana, he tried to find another team to move to Oklahoma.

The Sonics were looking for a new arena because the Key Arena is considered too small for modern NBA standards. Seattle however had only recently built stadiums for their baseball and football teams and the people didn't want to pay for a third very expensive facility. Stern then arranged for Schultz, the Sonics and Starbucks owner to sell the team to a group of Oklahoma businessmen who while claiming they would do everything they could to keep the team in Seattle, all they were really interested was getting a team and moving it to OKC.
Did Stern know what the Oklahoma businessmen were planning to do? Of course he did. Did Schultz know? He claims that he didn't, but I don't believe him. Stern simply wanted to reward OKC for supporting the Hornets, and he did everything he could to rob Seattle of a team. We saw that in Sacramento or now in Milwaukee, cities who also have an arena problem, the NBA is doing everything they can to keep the teams where they belong.
If the NBA really wanted to keep the team in Seattle, they would have arranged for Ballmer, a life-long Sonics fan and season ticket holder, to buy the team.


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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#53 » by MartinToVaught » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:15 pm

After all the trolling Seattle fans did and how entitled they felt to our team during the sale process, I personally hope those hypocrites never get another team.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#54 » by azwfan » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:57 pm

It seems clear to me that the Sonics moved because two different owners couldn't workout an arena deal with the city / state and more money could be made elsewhere.

I don't like the idea of public financing sports franchise arenas... but when you take that kind of stand, this is the result you end up with. Is Seattle better or worse off for it? I have no idea.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#55 » by Thundestruck » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:45 pm

azwfan wrote:It seems clear to me that the Sonics moved because two different owners couldn't workout an arena deal with the city / state and more money could be made elsewhere.

I don't like the idea of public financing sports franchise arenas... but when you take that kind of stand, this is the result you end up with. Is Seattle better or worse off for it? I have no idea.


Pretty reasonable take IMO. End of the day Seattle was done putting up public money for stadiums. That is not out of line or wrong. However, this is what happens.

It sucks for Sonics fans but at the end of the day if the opportunity arises they will not hesitate to "steal" a team from another city.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#56 » by Warspite » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:31 pm

CCIIIs Hair wrote:Bennett said he'd do, "everything in his power" to honor the lease and keep the Sonics in Seattle. Everything in his power apparently meant proposing a half billion dollar facility in Renton, for which he'd only invest $100 million of his own money in it. That's a joke.



That joke of $100 million is about 99million more than any other owner would ever pay and about 100 million more than any owner will ever pay again. IMHO That offer by Bennet was overly generous.


Seattle has every right to pay police and welfare programs instead of millionaire owners but they need to have the testicles to live with the consequences. You don't want millionaires to come and invest in your city and that's fine.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#57 » by Cactus Jack » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:17 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:After all the trolling Seattle fans did and how entitled they felt to our team during the sale process, I personally hope those hypocrites never get another team.

:roll:
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#58 » by Froob » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:31 pm

Does OKC really haul in that much more dough for the league than Seattle?
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#59 » by Froob » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:34 pm

SanDavid wrote:From what Seattle fans here in Cali told me, initially the Supersonics was supposed to stay in Seattle based on Bennett's "promises". But David Stern had a shady plan with Bennett to move the team to OKC. Apparently Stern had a little beef with Supersonics.

Stern with a shady plan? That's hard to believe.
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Re: Why did the Seattle Supersonics move to OKC? 

Post#60 » by ThumbsUpBaby » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:37 pm

Froob wrote:
SanDavid wrote:From what Seattle fans here in Cali told me, initially the Supersonics was supposed to stay in Seattle based on Bennett's "promises". But David Stern had a shady plan with Bennett to move the team to OKC. Apparently Stern had a little beef with Supersonics.

Stern with a shady plan? That's hard to believe.


Lmao, indeed.

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