Off Topic VII

[BeesWax]

I do not like Gettleman and this helps that none.

How can you flat out not like him at this point, at least when it comes to the draft?

I think he has had one good draft and one Eh draft so far. I think he is a jerk and that seems to be backed by public opinion on him. Players and agents do not like dealing with him from what I have heard. To me that is a huge red flag. I did not want him in the first place.

[fatlever]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/594156079799357440[/tweet]

Of course if Bonnell followed Marc Stein he would know this info.

http://www.atthehive.com/2015/5/1/85295 ... ont-office

a little write-up from atthehive

[yosemiteben]

I do not like Gettleman and this helps that none.

How can you flat out not like him at this point, at least when it comes to the draft?

I think he has had one good draft and one Eh draft so far. I think he is a jerk and that seems to be backed by public opinion on him. Players and agents do not like dealing with him from what I have heard. To me that is a huge red flag. I did not want him in the first place.

Which was the eh draft? The one where we got Short, Star, and Klein?

I don't care at all if players or agents like dealing with him. I'll start caring when we miss on a guy that we were targeting or have someone leave us that we want to keep, but that hasn't happened.

I'm pretty surprised to find a Panthers fan that thinks GMan is a bad GM.

[EwingSweatsALot]

How can you flat out not like him at this point, at least when it comes to the draft?

I think he has had one good draft and one Eh draft so far. I think he is a jerk and that seems to be backed by public opinion on him. Players and agents do not like dealing with him from what I have heard. To me that is a huge red flag. I did not want him in the first place.

Which was the eh draft? The one where we got Short, Star, and Klein?

I don't care at all if players or agents like dealing with him. I'll start caring when we miss on a guy that we were targeting or have someone leave us that we want to keep, but that hasn't happened.

I'm pretty surprised to find a Panthers fan that thinks GMan is a bad GM.

Then ones that do attribute Our shortcomings in what we have been able to do to him instead of Herney's annihilation of our cap.

GMan only has so much to work with, he's done well with the hand he was dealt.

[BeesWax]

I think he has had one good draft and one Eh draft so far. I think he is a jerk and that seems to be backed by public opinion on him. Players and agents do not like dealing with him from what I have heard. To me that is a huge red flag. I did not want him in the first place.

Which was the eh draft? The one where we got Short, Star, and Klein?

I don't care at all if players or agents like dealing with him. I'll start caring when we miss on a guy that we were targeting or have someone leave us that we want to keep, but that hasn't happened.

I'm pretty surprised to find a Panthers fan that thinks GMan is a bad GM.

Then ones that do attribute Our shortcomings in what we have been able to do to him instead of Herney's annihilation of our cap.

GMan only has so much to work with, he's done well with the hand he was dealt.

The ones who don't attribute problems to Gettleman like to blame Hurney for everything while ignoring Gettleman driving players away. Gross retired early because he could not stand the man according to many people. We were not going to bargain bin shop this year but had to do it because people hate Gettleman. Nobody in this league wants to deal with this man and from what I have heard who can blame them.

So no I think the short sited people are the ones who blindly follow a poor GM because they want to believe he was better than the guy before him despite it not being the case.

[BeesWax]

How can you flat out not like him at this point, at least when it comes to the draft?

I think he has had one good draft and one Eh draft so far. I think he is a jerk and that seems to be backed by public opinion on him. Players and agents do not like dealing with him from what I have heard. To me that is a huge red flag. I did not want him in the first place.

Which was the eh draft? The one where we got Short, Star, and Klein?

I don't care at all if players or agents like dealing with him. I'll start caring when we miss on a guy that we were targeting or have someone leave us that we want to keep, but that hasn't happened.

I'm pretty surprised to find a Panthers fan that thinks GMan is a bad GM.

It cost us Gross already and our non bargain bin shopping was still bargain bin this year because players and agents are not interested in coming here if they have other options.

The first draft was Eh. Star and Short were good picks and other than that nothing much special. Klein is nothing special or even a very good starter. Yes Gettleman is a bad GM I have said it since we hired him incorrectly and I will say it till he is fired for being a jerk who runs our team into the ground.

[yosemiteben]

It cost us Gross already and our non bargain bin shopping was still bargain bin this year because players and agents are not interested in coming here if they have other options.

How is Gross retiring GMan's fault? Gross was all over the place talking about how his body was killing him and he just didn't want to do it anymore. Take this article for example.

And our bargain bin shopping this year is because we haven't solved our cap issues yet. Players and agents care about the $, not about the personality of the GM.

The first draft was Eh. Star and Short were good picks and other than that nothing much special.

We didn't have a third round pick, and Kugbila has had injury issues that weren't foreseeable.

Klein is nothing special or even a very good starter.

He was also a fifth round pick. Serviceable depth is fine in later rounds IMO.

Yes Gettleman is a bad GM I have said it since we hired him incorrectly and I will say it till he is fired for being a jerk who runs our team into the ground.

Good to know that your negativity isn't limited to the Hornets.

[BeesWax]

It cost us Gross already and our non bargain bin shopping was still bargain bin this year because players and agents are not interested in coming here if they have other options.

How is Gross retiring GMan's fault? Gross was all over the place talking about how his body was killing him and he just didn't want to do it anymore. Take this article for example.

And our bargain bin shopping this year is because we haven't solved our cap issues yet. FALSE. We had over $10M in cap room left over last season. We have money he just can't spend it because nobody wants to come here. Players and agents care about the $, not about the personality of the GM. FALSE. You can get money anywhere so if you hate the man you have to deal with why do it? They only way a jerk like Gettleman could compete with competent social GMs is to overpay.

The first draft was Eh. Star and Short were good picks and other than that nothing much special.

We didn't have a third round pick, and Kugbila has had injury issues that weren't foreseeable. Kugbila looks at a field and pulls a hammy.

Klein is nothing special or even a very good starter.

He was also a fifth round pick. Serviceable depth is fine in later rounds IMO. Then Hurney did fine in many later rounds people want to blame him for. If all you need out of them is a crummy player who can play on ST.

Yes Gettleman is a bad GM I have said it since we hired him incorrectly and I will say it till he is fired for being a jerk who runs our team into the ground.

Good to know that your negativity isn't limited to the Hornets.

Good to know your irrational positivity isn't limited to the Hornets. Nice to see you never take off the rose colored glasses. I feel positive about many things with the Hornets just not the coaching. I think we have built a nice young core to grow with but unlike you I see the errors in coaching as a negative as apposed to burying my head in the sand and denying the problem.

Many people talk about how Gross, prior to Gettleman, was planning to play a few more seasons. He hated Gettleman and dealing with the man. This information is also backed by the way Gettleman dealt with Steve Smith, Captain Mannerlyn and a few of the other guys who bailed. He is getting a terrible rep around the league and players only want to come he if it is there last shot at decent playing time.

[yosemiteben]

Do you think Gettleman is worse than Hurney?

I'm legitimately surprised at your opinion. It's not rose colored glasses - I live in Charlotte and talk Panthers to lots of folks. I have never encountered an opinion like yours.

[BeesWax]

No. I do not think he is far off though. I think he is a better scout but a terrible GM. The GM is the face of your management and he is a very negative face. It is like having a jerk as a college coach, how are you going to recruit. Actually I think if you could pair the two they would be a perfect GM. Hurney knows how to handle the media and players properly and Gettleman knows how to handle scouting and manage money. The key is finding a guy who can do both then we will be OK.

Anyway I can see like with Clifford we won't agree here.

Who do you hope falls tonight or what position are you hoping to get tonight?

I have a lot of Panthers fans friends some are with me and some are not. I am a math person who thinks of all the consequences of all the variables. Some of my friends have actually come over to my side after listening and then watching what I have said take place here. Lots of people hate Gettleman but we get ridiculed because so many people are praying for someone they deem better than Hurney.

[yosemiteben]

The GM is also the one who has to make the budget work and chart the direction of the franchise, which to me is far more both valuable and rare as a skill, and Hurney was a total failure at that IMO. I don't think any players with long term futures in Carolina left. Ginn came back, seems Getts didn't scare him off. Olsen reupped. I'm sure Luke and Cam will too.

Anyway, I guess agree to disagree.

I think we go all offense, need a WR but maybe we go with Duke Johnson if he's still on the board. We also need to further address the O line, you have to think that'll be coming too.

[Liver_Pooty]

No. I do not think he is not far off. I think he is a better scout but a terrible GM. The GM is the face of your management and he is a very negative face. It is like having a jerk as a college coach, how are you going to recruit. Actually I think if you could pair the two they would be a perfect GM. Hurney knows how to handle the media and players properly and Gettleman knows how to handle scouting and manage money. The key is finding a guy who can do both then we will be OK.

Anyway I can see like with Clifford we won't agree here.

Who do you hope falls tonight or what position are you hoping to get tonight?

I have a lot of Panthers fans friends some are with me and some are not. I am a math person who thinks of all the consequences of all the variables. Some of my friends have actually come over to my side after listening and then watching what I have said take place here. Lots of people hate Gettleman but we get ridiculed because so many people are praying for someone they deem better than Hurney.

Green-Beckham would be incredible if he dropped, but he won't. Same with Devin Smith
We could be somewhat safe and go with an OK player at OT in TJ Clemmings, but I think we pick Duke Johnson, the RB out of Miami. Just a hunch.

[Liver_Pooty]

The GM is also the one who has to make the budget work and chart the direction of the franchise, and Hurney was a total failure at that IMO. I don't think any players with long term futures in Carolina left. Ginn came back, seems Getts didn't scare him off. Olsen reupped. I'm sure Luke and Cam will too.

Anyway, I guess agree to disagree.

I think we go all offense, need a WR but maybe we go with Duke Johnson if he's still on the board. We also need to further address the O line, you have to think that'll be coming too.

Ha, I was thinking Johnson as well.

[Liver_Pooty]

Not that it means anything, but the NFL.com round 2 mock draft has us taking a CB.

57. Carolina Panthers -- D'Joun Smith, CB, Florida Atlantic
Wiry frame with great man-cover talent. Smith's quick-twitch athleticism is a welcome sight in Carolina.

[BeesWax]

Hurney was a failure at that and Gettleman is a failure at PR. Both fail at half the job so together they would be perfect or the worst ever depending on what traits you combine. I wish we had gone with Ross but oh well we are stuck with the ship sinker for at least a couple years. To me Gettleman is the CEO you bring in for 2 to 3 years to get the books straight then fire before every employee you have quits and your business fails.

I don't think drafting OL is worth it. The value was there at 25 potentially with Clemmings or Fisher maybe but nobody else can play LT and we don't have one of those. The other spots are at least serviceable right now. We should have gone WR in the first but I do think they have to pick one tonight now. We could have very likely had Dorsett and Thompson if we had picked Dorsett last night and used our 4th or 5th to move up tonight and grab Thompson.

[BeesWax]

Not that it means anything, but the NFL.com round 2 mock draft has us taking a CB.

57. Carolina Panthers -- D'Joun Smith, CB, Florida Atlantic
Wiry frame with great man-cover talent. Smith's quick-twitch athleticism is a welcome sight in Carolina.

I like him. Chucky and Kiper talked about his film the other day. Small and compact but strong and a good tackler. Fits what we have looked for in CBs lately. He looked powerful in what I saw but not extremely fast.

[yosemiteben]

Half of the job a GM is PR? Not sure I buy that.

I wouldn't mind a CB. I don't think we should have gone WR in the first round if they felt it was a reach, and I don't see any major in gap late 1st WRs and WRs that are still on the board.

I really did think we might use our compensatory picks to move up, still think that's a possibility, but then again Getts seems confident in his ability to evaluate and get value out of later round picks so maybe he wants to hold onto them.

[BeesWax]

Dorsett is head and shoulders above who is left now IMO. Shaq was a huge reach because I am not sure we would have had to move up in the 2nd to get him at least Dorsett is someone who had 1st round grades in more places than not.

Half to job to me is managing the cap and drafting while half is keeping the guys you want to keep and attracting the ones you want to bring in. Gentleman can't attract players because he has a bad rep.

You cannot trade comp picks so we would have to move our picks to jump around.

[Liver_Pooty]

I'd take a risk on La'el Collins with one of the comp picks or a 6th rounder and pray.

[BeesWax]

I'd take a risk on La'el Collins with one of the comp picks or a 6th rounder and pray.

Heck yeah. If he was there at the first comp pick in the 5th I am taking him and crossing my fingers.