The Andrew Wiggins Thread

Post #821 » by **C.lupus** » Sun May 3, 2015 7:11 pm

I'm pretty sure 90% of the people don't even know what the advanced stat is even saying. They just parrot the numbers without understanding them.

Zeitgeister · Post #822 » by **Zeitgeister** » Sun May 3, 2015 7:22 pm

Can some of you stop the crusade against stats just because they don't make your favorite player look good? I agree, context is hugely important and I also much prefer the eye test when projecting how good a player will be or can become but try to be a bit more objective.

Mattya · Post #823 » by **Mattya** » Sun May 3, 2015 7:30 pm

The crusade against advanced stats? You mean the crusade for the use of context with advanced stats?

Zeitgeister · Post #824 » by **Zeitgeister** » Sun May 3, 2015 7:55 pm

Mattya wrote:The crusade against advanced stats? You mean the crusade for the use of context with advanced stats?

I've been leading the crusade for using advanced stats within their proper context. That's clearly not what some Timberwolves fans are doing, I'm surprised you can't see that.

Mattya · Post #825 » by **Mattya** » Sun May 3, 2015 7:59 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:
Mattya wrote:The crusade against advanced stats? You mean the crusade for the use of context with advanced stats?

I've been leading the crusade for using advanced stats within their proper context. That's clearly not what some Timberwolves fans are doing, I'm surprised you can't see that.

I think everyone can appreciate advanced stats with context, that is not what 97% of what RealGM posters do though.

moss_is_1 · Post #826 » by **moss_is_1** » Sun May 3, 2015 10:02 pm

Wiggins' advanced stats aren't great for a number of reasons.

PER - Average efficiency(average FT%, low 3point %), not a lot of assists.

Defensive metrics - He's always guarding the #1 option on the other team. He's by far our best defender, and he shows flashes of being elite in that regard. Plus, majority of the season he played with huge negative defenders(Martin, Mo, Lavine, Bennett/Payne).

After the all-star break Wiggins TS% was up to 53%, even though he was only 5-31 on 3's in the last 29 games. He largely stopped shooting the 3, and focused more on his mid-range, post ups, and getting to the rim(7.9 FTA per game post all-star). Next season I think it's reasonable to expect him to improve on his ball-handling, shooting, and get even better finishing/on post ups with a full NBA off-season to improve his game.

Post #827 » by **Klomp** » Sun May 3, 2015 10:17 pm

Here's a good mix of his all-around game

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdGSqXPA9BY[/youtube]

mondry · Post #828 » by **mondry** » Sun May 3, 2015 10:36 pm

PLEASE let us build a good team around this guy....

mandurugo · Post #829 » by **mandurugo** » Sun May 3, 2015 11:49 pm

If advanced stats show that Wiggins was the worst ROY winner ever and the worst defensive rookie playing I can only imagine how awesome he'll look if he ever gets to average level by their calculations.

Killboard · Post #830 » by **Killboard** » Mon May 4, 2015 2:25 am

Im not a advanced stat guru, but defensive win shares and DBPM are just box score stats. Comparing him to noel IE who is a better stealer and blocker just represent that. Pippen and Kg in example always were worst in this type of stats than others meh players.
And both of this advanced stats have weight o the team around the player, and specially on defense our team was embarrassing. Lavine experiment at PG, Bud playing PF, even Hummel at Center.

Watch the play over harden, then tell me how many rookies can do that, then we can speak about defensive talent.

Saltine · Post #831 » by **Saltine** » Mon May 4, 2015 2:58 am

Using win shares to discuss a player on the team with the fewest wins Is just daft. He'll always look like crap, while a role player on a 50+ win team looks nice. It's a stupid metric.

Because this metric is designed to estimate a player's contribution in terms of wins, it makes sense to see if the sum of player Win Shares for a particular team closely matches the team win total.
_________
1 - Calculate the Defensive Rating for each player.
2 - Calculate marginal defense for each player. Marginal defense is equal to (player minutes played / team minutes played) * (team defensive possessions) * (1.08 * (league points per possession) - ((Defensive Rating) / 100)). Note that this formula may produce a negative result for some players.
3 - Calculate marginal points per win. Marginal points per win reduces to 0.32 * (league points per game) * ((team pace) / (league pace)).
4 - Credit Defensive Win Shares to the players. Defensive Win Shares are credited using the following formula: (marginal defense) / (marginal points per win).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

Post #832 » by **Klomp** » Mon May 4, 2015 3:38 am

Building on the previous post...

Win Shares per win
Wiggins: .131
Mirotic: .114

wildvikeswolves · Post #833 » by **wildvikeswolves** » Mon May 4, 2015 1:30 pm

Bull and 76ers fans will do everything they possibly can to try and make this guy look like a terrible player. It's quite annoying, cant imagine how they would act if they had him on there team

Quentin · Post #834 » by **Quentin** » Mon May 4, 2015 3:00 pm

Wiggins scored 266 points on post up plays this year to Noel's 101. It's not a minutes thing either. Wiggins with 2969 and Noel 2311.

GreatDane · Post #835 » by **GreatDane** » Mon May 4, 2015 4:37 pm

wildvikeswolves wrote:Bull and 76ers fans will do everything they possibly can to try and make this guy look like a terrible player. It's quite annoying, cant imagine how they would act if they had him on there team

MVP bound, surely.

Mattya · Post #836 » by **Mattya** » Mon May 4, 2015 5:56 pm

http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/video/teams/timberwolves/2015/05/01/ROY1on1mp4-3588301

Wiggins interview with Alan Horton after winning ROY.

-mentions KG's return and the atmosphere of Minnesota as a highlight of the season.
-dunks over Gobert and Asik stood out to him.

theGreatRC · Post #837 » by **theGreatRC** » Mon May 4, 2015 6:10 pm

Klomp wrote:Here's a good mix of his all-around game

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdGSqXPA9BY[/youtube]

This is a good one.

Andrew will have the best spin move in the NBA within the next two years.

I remember watching high school highlights and that being the staple of his game.

LibertyPrime · Post #838 » by **LibertyPrime** » Mon May 4, 2015 9:50 pm

wildvikeswolves wrote:Bull and 76ers fans will do everything they possibly can to try and make this guy look like a terrible player. It's quite annoying, cant imagine how they would act if they had him on there team

Philly fans are especially obnoxious, given that their ROY was Michael Carter Williams, a guy who consistently shot below 40% and was so beloved by the team that he was traded halfway through his second season, AFTER leading them to one of the most historically bad seasons EVER in the history of the league.

If you're gonna say that team oriented metrics prove that Wiggins is bad, then what does that say about MCW?

LibertyPrime · Post #839 » by **LibertyPrime** » Mon May 4, 2015 10:11 pm

Let's also not forget that Wiggins' main competition were a second-year "rookie" and a guy who already played several years of professional ball, and he smoked both of 'em. :biggrin:

AttackTheRack · Post #840 » by **AttackTheRack** » Wed May 6, 2015 3:53 am

Watching that mix reminded how great he can be. He's got Next Level, Future of Basketball-type potential. His offensive repertoire is pretty much complete. The skills are all there. Can shoot the 3, no matter what the numbers say - with that stroke? Not a worry at all. HUGE dunker! Good passer, too. Plays D. Should make a major jump next year. I'm calling All Star!